back to article London to Dover 'smart' road could help make driverless cars mainstream – expert

The creation of new "smart" roads with in-built Wi-Fi technology can be an enabler of the widespread adoption of driverless and connected cars, an expert has said. Ben Gardner, expert in autonomous vehicles technology and regulation at Pinsent Masons, the law firm behind Out-Law.com, said he welcomed plans outlined by Highways …

  1. Known Hero

    better start

    Why dover to london ?

    would not the M25 be a better choice.

    1. hplasm
      Happy

      Re: better start

      The M25 would be a great start - get rid of all of the drivers!

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: better start

      it's potentially easier to convert into a toll road, which is what will be needed to fund the necessary infrastructure investment.

      Plus given the number of times this road has been converted into a parking lot for the port, you could question whether it really is a public road or a private car park masquerading as a road.

      1. Cuddles

        Re: better start

        "Plus given the number of times this road has been converted into a parking lot for the port, you could question whether it really is a public road or a private car park masquerading as a road."

        Which raises an interesting question - how smart does a road need to be before it can decide to go on strike?

    3. PNGuinn
      Go

      Re: better start

      Yeah, always better to try these things out in a car park first.

  2. JeffyPoooh
    Pint

    "Wi-Fi ... an enabler"

    "...new 'smart' roads with in-built Wi-Fi technology can be an enabler of the widespread adoption of driverless and connected cars..."

    If driverless cars are *relying on* wifi, then we're doomed.

    1. Geoff Campbell Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: "Wi-Fi ... an enabler"

      They aren't relying on WiFi. However, they can get lots of very valuable information by talking to other cars and control rooms.

      GJC

    2. PNGuinn
      Pirate

      Re: "Wi-Fi ... an enabler"

      Now, assuming the level of security the motor industry is famous for, Comfy deckchair on a bridge, cool drink in one hand, smartphone in the other ...

      ANYONE FOR DODGEMS?

      Something tells me this will not end well.

  3. David Roberts
    WTF?

    Full of big words

    Then I learn we will be getting petrol price signs.

    Radar to detect breakdowns - don't we already have those cameras which "only read part of you number plate" to measure traffic flow on most motorways and trunk roads?

    Wi-Fi and 4G reliably along the roads would be nice; even better along the railways.

    Looks like a load of puff mainly announcing stuff we already have. Or there is a lot of information missing from the article.

    1. 's water music

      Re: Full of big words

      Wi-Fi and 4G reliably along the roads would be nice; even better along the railways.

      2G would be nice between Bristol and Exeter

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Full of big words

      "Then I learn we will be getting petrol price signs."

      Unless they include directions to filling stations in nearby towns then the only price they need to show on motorway signs is "bloody expensive".

      I find it hard to believe how many people fill up at motorway services where the prices are often as much as 60p or more per gallon higher than in towns. I suppose they must be mainly company fuel card users who don't give a stuff and don't understand how it all works. In our company, they take back the full amount spent on the fuel card then pay back the standard HMRC approved mileage rate. If you fill up at expensive motorway services and drive with a lead foot that could easily cost you, the driver, money for doing company business. IIRC the break even point is about 48mpg using cheap supermarket fuels.

      1. Vic

        Re: Full of big words

        I suppose they must be mainly company fuel card users who don't give a stuff and don't understand how it all works

        How it works depends on what sort of card you have...

        My mate has a fuel card which is charged the same price wherever he uses it - so motorway filling stations are no more expensive than anywhere else.

        Vic.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Full of big words

          "My mate has a fuel card which is charged the same price wherever he uses it - so motorway filling stations are no more expensive than anywhere else."

          Thanks, I didn't know that. All the ones I've had were basically just credit cards, eg AllStar

  4. Vimes

    They're seriously considering something like this despite so many of those roads not being in a fit state to use in the first place? Seriously? People have taken to drawing cocks around the potholes in some more extreme cases just to try and get the government to do something about them.

    There are some far more fundamental issues that they need to fix first. And don't get me started on the reliability of government-mandated IT.

    Remember that John Oliver sketch on encryption where he mentioned the test involving hackers gaining control of a car and cutting the engine whilst it was on the freeway of all places?

    We seem to be intent on handing the bad guystm opportunities on a silver platter, and I'd imagine that sooner the terrorists will be abandoning the bombs for laptops.

    They'd be just as deadly, plus they wouldn't actually die themselves in the process.

    1. Alan Brown Silver badge

      "Remember that John Oliver sketch on encryption where he mentioned the test involving hackers gaining control of a car and cutting the engine whilst it was on the freeway of all places?"

      No need for that to cause mayhem. Just hack the fuel price signs to display 40p off.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > People have taken to drawing cocks around the potholes in some more extreme cases just to try and get the government to do something about them.

      ??? I fail to see the logic behind that. Here where I live we just call the highways ombudsman.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > the bad guys

      How did you manage to turn an article about road infrastructure into a terrorism scare?

      Plus, your hypothetical terrorist needs to spend less time watching Hollywood films and more at demonstrations, where he could learn what a few gallons of oil and a few boxes of caltrops are for.

      <thingsyoulearnincollege>

      Petrol with soap and/or sulphuric acid + potassium chlorate strictly optional, they work best in close quarters anyway.

      </thingsyoulearnincollege>

  5. Ol'Peculier
    Pint

    "trial a new "connected corridor" of road in the South East of England"

    Yeah, because God forbid we ever think of doing anything like this up north.

    It's Friday, and I've just been told I can leave early ---->>>

    1. AndyS

      Let's think. Centre of the UK motor industry? North West.

      Where will we put some new technology? I know, just outside London.

      Great thinking from our progressive government, once again.

      1. SkippyBing
        Trollface

        They probably want to trial it somewhere people can afford cars.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "They probably want to trial it somewhere people can afford cars."

          I tend to see nicer cars when I go home up north than I do on the roads round London. The wage differential is less than the housing differential meaning more free cash for buying cars. Or beer. Or whippets.

        2. PNGuinn
          Stop

          @ SkippyBing

          "They probably want to trial it somewhere people can afford cars."

          They probably want to trial it somewhere people can afford overpriced toys that will spaff more of their personal info that can be monetised.

          There FIFY.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Centre of the UK motor industry? North West.

        You are joking? It's nice that you're proud of Leyland trucks and Bentley, but other parts of the country do have a few little companies like Nissan, Honda, Jaguar Land Rover, and virtually the entire motorsport industry, you know.

      3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge
        Stop

        > Centre of the UK motor industry? North West.

        And Swindon..

        Just sayin'

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's for the future so one day we can say "Driverless Cars? Aye,When I were a lad we had to drive them ourselves"

      1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        You Were Lucky

        Once I had to make my postillion drive.

        (I was going to say "wife drive" but, hey, safe space and all that.)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Meh

      Up North

      Yeah, because God forbid we ever think of doing anything like this up north.

      That's because nobody lives up North. Nobody important, like a cabinet minister, anyway.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Up North

        "That's because nobody lives up North. Nobody important, like a cabinet minister, anyway."

        "Two Jags" Prescott? Oh....I see what you mean...

  6. JimmyPage Silver badge

    Makes sense/low hanging fruit

    I see the move towards autonomous cars happening in discrete steps. The first will be certain roads (motorways) being designated "autonomous control permitted". When an autonomous car joins the road, the driver will be able to press the big button that lights up, and the car will take over.

    To be honest I think we're almost there, as assistive technology blurs into adaptive technology.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All the better to track you then?

    all the better to sell your details to the Ad slingers

    sign 1

    'Hey you in that thirty year old Corsa'

    sign 2 - 200m up the road

    'Yes you Mr Jones'

    sign 3 - another 200m away

    'Why not come into the 21st Century. Buy an Electric car from {insert name of your local dealer here}'

    Etc etc etc

    not forgetting the charges per mile.

    What can go wrong?

    The terrorists would have a field day. Just jam the signal and watch the carnage enschew.

    Strike one for the men in black.

    Stupid idea if you ask me but there, I'm a grumpy old shit who does not use social media etc etc.

    Bring back Steam Lorries and Cars. Can't be bovvered with that new fangled connected stuff.

    1. Fred Dibnah

      Re: All the better to track you then?

      Sign 4

      "Burma-Shave"

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: All the better to track you then?

      Why should they waste money on electronic signs when you will be sitting in a car that includes a screen of its own? You won't be driving so you'll have plenty of time to view their ads. Heck, I could see "toll" roads where the toll is paid by answering survey questions.

      Please remember this post so when anyone Google tries to patent it you can point to this as prior art and they'll be SOL.

  8. getHandle
    FAIL

    Highways England?

    Are they the people who control the variable speed limits on the M25? The ones that tell you that the limit is 40 when you're already stationary? And otherwise seem to bear no relationship to what's actually happening or have any effect on it?

    Yeah - they seem like a sensible choice for an advanced IT project...

    1. Drummer Boy

      Re: Highways England?

      That's not the speed limit, that's the aspiration limit!!

    2. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: Highways England?

      Alternatively on the M1 Alfreton to Doncaster stretch up North, variable limit will usually be some low number e.g. 40, 50 irrespective of how busy the road is. Lots of locals reckon it's a scam as some of those areas regularly exceed emissions limits and the speed limits are more about emissions than traffic flow

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Highways England?

        "Alternatively on the M1 Alfreton to Doncaster stretch up North,"

        When I travel down South to Nottingham a couple of times per month and pass through that stretch it's never enabled, just 70mph standard limits. Of course I get there well after rush hour and usually leave the area and head back North before the afternoon rush hour.

        On the other hand, as can be seen on the non-speed camera/non-smart motorway places where matrix signs display 40/50/60mph limits because of queues ahead, at least half of the drivers ignore the limits and just make the queue that much longer that much quicker by getting there sooner. Often the reason for lowering the speed limits is to stop the bunching up at junctions. If people actually respected the speed limits, we'd all get there quicker instead of BMWAUDIMan being the only one important enough to be at the front of the queue, ie ideally, respecting the reduced speed limits is intended to stop the queues from forming in the first place.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Highways England?

        > Lots of locals reckon it's a scam as some of those areas regularly exceed emissions limits and the speed limits are more about emissions than traffic flow

        It's quite common to have reduced speed limits in and around urban areas for precisely that reason: to reduce pollution (both air and noise). How is looking after the quality of life of the locals a scam?

      3. David Hicklin Bronze badge

        Re: Highways England?

        Or you get "Incident - 40" sign after sign, and after driving along for 10 miles (this is M1 J20 to 21 here - a 13 mile stretch) you get "End".

        Without seeing anything unusual at all - and they wonder why drivers just ignore them?

  9. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    These are concepts from the 1960ies, I had picture books as a kid with this. Electric cars looking like a shuttle from an intergalactic spaceship, being steered by hand off the motorway, being teered by computers on the motorway using some sort of doohickey or other built in the road itself.

    Apart from that, another buliding block in my scheme for computer aided burglary. The IoT devices in your house will tell me what valuables you have. They will also tell me when you're out and they will let me in. And your IoT enabled car will make sure you won't come home unexpected by driving you anywhere but there.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      There is a concept from the 1860s where you can connect a bunch of "cars" behind a single "engine" and using analogue technology autonomoulsy guide them quickly from London to Dover and even on toward foreign lands

  10. Dieter Haussmann

    Sounds like another grant-scam for the old boys' network.

  11. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Stop

    computer aided burglary.

    The thing is, in this future, what are people going to steal ?

    Sophisticated thieves won't be interested in anything the average suburban semi has.

    Smackheads would only be interested in something they can sell/trade that's easy to lift and untraceable. Given that Geolocking already locks phones based on location, how long until TVs do the same - bearing in mind stealing a modern SmartTV is particularly dumb, as the second you plug it into the internet, it can alert whoever as to its location ...

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: computer aided burglary.

      You seem remarkably naive. Crime will always adapt to the environment and criminals are often early adopters of technology. If straight theft seems less rewarding then try ransoming people or their stuff.

    2. Pen-y-gors

      Re: computer aided burglary.

      Interesting point - remember when scumbags used to break into cars to nick the stereo and then flog it to some guy down the pub, who'd buy it because they were all a standard size and fitted into the standard rectangular slot in the car? Security meant a detachable front panel that you were meant to put in your pocket when you left the car.

      Now every car comes with a built in system, so no point in nicking the stereo as they don't come out easily and no-one needs to buy one.

      It would be interesting to know the actual statistics.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: computer aided burglary.

        Stealing a modern smart TV is only particularly dumb if you connect to the internet.

        But it would be kind of good to have them protected by a PIN code which will brick them after too many bad attempts like a phone, whilst taking a sequence of photos of their surroundings.

        I also remember when people broke into cars to steal a GPS device, and people were encouraged to clean the tell-tale sucker-grip marks from the windscreen. Now GPS are all dirt cheap so they get left in situ again.

      2. Ogi

        Re: computer aided burglary.

        To be honest, I think that died out when car radios became really quite cheap. For £30 you can buy a brand new mp3/bluetooth/dab/latest_flashy_thing online, which works just fine in your car, and comes with a guarantee. Why would I risk buying something with scratches and wires sticking out, from a dodgy guy down the pub? Even for £10 it really isn't worth it. Not to mention the age old story of the thief then taking note of your car, finding out where you live, and nicking the radio all over again to resell.

        Then there was the whole "Radio PIN" thing, and detachable covers, which made it harder to resell. Even if you knew a bent reprogrammer, and after paying them to work their magic you would find you might end up with a fiver profit.

        Along the same lines, car alarm systems got better and better, so it rarely was worth the risk just for the radio. If you have to disable the entire alarm system just to get at the car radio, you might as well take the whole car at that point.

        And yes, those custom in car entertainment systems are harder to get out of the car, but go on ebay and you will still find a raft of them. Turns out some of them are quite expensive even second hand.

        I do think though, that there has been a reduction in car thefts. From what I can see, criminals target bikes round my area far more. Which makes sense, bikes are easier to nick, easier to keep hidden, easier to break for parts in your living room, and some loons will actually spend £2-4000 on a bike, meaning a decent profit for not much effort. Had a neighbour complain that it would cost her £100 for a new bike wheel, because someone nicked hers (she locked the frame and rear wheel only). Never knew that bike wheels have become so expensive.

        Every morning in the early hours, outside my building, you can hear saws and hammers as the local youths try to break the bike locks in the bike parking area, yet nobody touches cars any more. Probably because there are very few chop shops around nowadays, and not everyone has the space to break a stolen car for parts without anyone noticing.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: computer aided burglary.

          > From what I can see, criminals target bikes round my area far more

          Just because you're a criminal doesn't mean you can't go green.

  12. davenewman

    50 years later than German towns

    They could start with speed indicators alongside traffic lights in town. Drive at that speed and the next light will be green. They have had that in Germany for 50 years or more. It just needs disciplined human drivers, the computers are in the traffic light network.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: 50 years later than German towns

      They had it on the A4 between Taplow and Slough back in the 1970's,

      Great idea.

      Now we get lights with shorter and shorter green times. The ones on the A281 near Dunsfold are stupid. only green long enough for 4 cars to get through. no wonder more and more drivers just ignore them anyway.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: 50 years later than German towns

      Most cities in the world have similar systems on their main roads. However, it doesn't really seem to do much to reduce traffic and can cause problems where main roads cross.

    3. kain preacher

      Re: 50 years later than German towns

      I know in some cites in the US they have signs tha tsay if you do they speed limit you will hit all greens.

  13. caffeine addict

    Is it me, or are these Outlaw articles looking more and more like press releases?

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Don't you mean "Pinsent Masons, the law firm behind Out-Law.com". At least I think that their proper, name since every article always prints the name in that form.

  14. TeeCee Gold badge
    Mushroom

    Here we go again.

    Oddly enough, people can drive cars without being connected to the Internet.

    For any viable autonomous car, a prerequisite is that it must work perfectly without a connection, as such lacks 100% 24x7 availability and its being less "reliable" or "safe" without such is utterly unacceptable.

    The only reason for the "connected car" being a "must have" for an autonomous vehicle is that someone, somewhere in its genesis has a data collection scam going.

    I wonder what this particular lying little twat's angle is?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Here we go again.

      "For any viable autonomous car, a prerequisite is that it must work perfectly without a connection, as such lacks 100% 24x7 availability and its being less "reliable" or "safe" without such is utterly unacceptable."

      No one has ever suggested than an autonomous car might need a permanent internet connection or else it can't operate or isn't safe, however I think it is perfectly acceptable that a car can operate better if it is given access to more information. A connected car might get advanced information about traffic flow, accidents, bad road surfaces, weather conditions, oversized vehicles etc in advance. This data can help a car make better decisions - doesn't mean it is 'unsafe' without it but it can be more safe or at least operate better with it.

      GPS can work with just three satellites in view, however it can work a lot better with 12 satellites in view.

      I don't think anyone never expects an autonomous car to be involved in an incident, it's just they should be a lot less frequent and the outcome should be a lot better, the more data and sensors it can use the less frequent these incidents should be.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Here we go again.

        The connection for all that data useful to the driver (be it human or computer) is mostly available WITHOUT the need to the vehicle to send data back to whoever it is connected to.

        I was thinking of using the M.25 early this morning. My Satnav told me that there was an accident Anti-clock close to the Dartford Crossing. I went the other way round. I could have gone either way because I was coming up the M23 and going north on the A1(M).

        No need for my car to tell anyone what speed I was doing, how much battery was left , etc etc etc.

        It tells me all that. no need for anyone else to be told that.

        Luddites Rule Ok!

    2. Vimes

      Re: Here we go again.

      Is the Ben Gardner in the article the same Ben Gardner found here?

      Ben is a solicitor in the Pinsent Masons commercial team and is based in Birmingham.

      Ben works with clients to ensure that they get maximum advantage from their contractual relationships(1) whilst also working with them to ensure that they identify and manage risk appropriately. Ben is committed to providing clients with carefully considered advice from both a legal and commercial perspective.

      [...]

      Other Matters - Advising clients on other legal and commercial issues such as advertising, data protection, intellectual property and e-commerce law.

      https://uk.linkedin.com/in/ben-gardner-bb494762

      What is there in that summary that would justify calling him an expert in autonomous vehicles technology?

      (1): When I hear 'get maximum advantage' this gets translated in my mind to 'monetise' which is a term that makes my skin crawl given what it normally entails.

    3. Vimes

      Re: Here we go again.

      Gardner said the plans "further evidence the government’s vision to establish the UK as a centre of excellence for the testing, development and future commercialisation of connected and autonomous vehicle technology".

      I've got a mental images of this being 'tested' at 70MPH down the M23. Cue the old jokes about Microsoft-made cars and a new meaning for 'Blue Screen of Death'.

      And as for 'centre of excellence' that sounds like something straight out a Dilbert strip.

      It's a whole new paradigm...

  15. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Just

    wait until the technology company running the wi-fi decides its no longer viable and turns it off.(think google and that nest thing)

  16. inmypjs Silver badge

    Autonomous

    Maybe the expert should look up the definition of autonomous.

    "not subject to control from outside; independent"

    If they need smart roads they are not autonomous.

    What they actually need is dumb roads - roads simple enough for autonomous vehicles to understand and drive along.

  17. JeffyPoooh
    Pint

    How long until...?

    How long until someone suggests using Wifi to actually POWER the electric cars?

    Tesla (Nikola, not Elon) actually suggested powering 'the entire world' with a handful of radio towers.

    1. DropBear

      Re: How long until...?

      Naaah, what they'll suggest first is powering the wifi hotspots from the passing cars. You know, magnets attached to the car's belly, loop coils in the tarmac, you know, the usual "energy harvesting" bollox...

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: How long until...?

      "Tesla (Nikola, not Elon) actually suggested powering 'the entire world' with a handful of radio towers."

      Well, my old crystal set still works like that. Not sure how well it would power the 'leccy car though. And then there's those people who claim they get cancer from living under powerlines!

      We need a tinfoil hat icon. Although if we ever go for broadcast power it may well emit sparks if used outdoors.

  18. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Stop

    Oh, hang on, no mention of

    The philosophy (in the UK at least) that private car ownership is BAD. Hence the *deliberately* mistimed light, excessively lengthy pedestrian phases, and "bypasses" (Northfield and Selly Oak on the A38) which take longer than driving through the town (proven many times by myself).

    I actually collared a project manager when the A38 bypass was being built, and commented how a simple phase change would let more cars through. He agreed and said the same point had been made to the management committee.However there was a general presumption that nothing should be done to encourage private motoring.

    So, next time you find yourself in a queue where you think "if they rephased the lights, more cars would get through", you're right. But they won't.

    (The fact this massively increases the pollution footprint of junctions is another tiny pinprick in the AGW hysteria. Once again, if it *really* mattered .....)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oh, hang on, no mention of

      What a load of nonsense.

  19. AndrewDu

    Ah, right, so they're not so much autonomous, but more like drive-by-wire.

    Hands up who's surprised? Anybody?

    And does this mean they're going to dig up the M6 AGAIN?

    Having just installed "smart motorway", whatever that means...

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Ah, right, so they're not so much autonomous, but more like drive-by-wire.

      Maybe you mean drive by wireless or maybe those overhead wires like electric trains use. Or scalextric.

      But I consider myself autonomous while driving, but I do find external information like traffic information, weather reports etc quite useful.

  20. Blofeld's Cat
    WTF?

    Petrol prices ,,,

    "... trialling fuel price signs on the M5 ..."

    I seem to remember every service area on the M6 (at least) used to display the petrol price on their "one mile to go" sign. Some of the signs still have the fittings for sliding in the numerals.

    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what this innovation actually is.

    1. Fred Dibnah

      Re: Petrol prices ,,,

      They probably removed the signs because people could see the outrageous fuel prices and kept on driving past the services.

  21. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

    Great, until..

    .. some ne'er-do-well cracks the control protocol and diverts all the cars down a one-lane back country road.

    Or slows everything down to 2mph.

  22. Howard Hanek
    Childcatcher

    Incapable

    I don't think there's a government in the world today capable of creating anything 'Smart'. And those that THINK they can will witness the mayhem and chaos that thousands of 'Driverless' vehicles suddenly out of control because the system was hacked can create.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Yes!, let's invent a "smart road"!!

    That can be bricked by one dummy with a cell phone jammer.

    Next idea, please.

    (We all know that the future of transportation is MONORAIL!)

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Yes!, let's invent a "smart road"!!

      This Monorail?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yes!, let's invent a "smart road"!!

        Yep, THAT monorail! I'd try to interest you in it, but (sigh) it's really more of a "Shelbyville" idea. (/turns my back and slowly starts to walk away.)

  24. Richard Roe
    Happy

    "driverless and connected cars" - sounds more like a railway

  25. Baldy50

    Traffic lights

    They have all this technology and IMHO it's not implemented correctly, if you use the A580 like me you will notice a vehicle at the lights say 200 yards ahead and the lights go on green but by the time you get there it's back to red, no vehicle has come onto or through from the junction from either side.

    It's obviously far more noticeable late at night when traffic is light.

    Why does it change back to red for the main road and green for the minor road, can't we have a system that sees say ten cars on the main road and two on the minor road and adjust the lights accordingly?

    The vehicles on the main road might be doing 60 MPH and are arbitrarily brought to a standstill wasting a lot of fuel, five get through and five get stopped to let one car from a 30 zone get through in five seconds at that speed the other five would be through anyway.

    I would happily be informed to slow to say 50 or any speed less than the limit for that road and get through the lights without stopping, a sort of continuity would result even at peak times.

    This road is a particular pain in the bum as the speed limit on parts of it have been reduced to 40 MPH because of a few pedestrian accidents and at least one bicycle death.

    It's a three lane road in some places FFS the same as most motorways so why punish the motorist because of a few dumb people, some nice roads around where I live and if two vans were meeting on parts of them the hedgerows would get a caress or two but still 60 MPH roads, absolute craziness.

    If traffic lights were clever and detect that one side of the junction was far busier than the others it could instead of just being on a timer and adjust accordingly, maybe this already exist to a degree but I've never seen it in action.

    I would happily see the day when all transport was driver less because the standard of driving today has fallen to a point where I dread it, I mean how hard is it to give way to the right? FFS! 32 years driving and not one crash BTW.

    On a side note I hope they don't use ever use Mickeysoft for running any of these driver less vehicles!

    On another side note recently lights have been changed for a raised roundabout instead at a congested junction and ruddy big bollards on the pavement, but they're digging it up again because big wagons can't always get round it and are apparently going to make it a bit smaller.

    Another concern I suppose is you hear about people doing exactly what the satnav tells them to even if it's obvious there's no turning where it tells them to turn, what assurance could have that a map update could be corrupted on the vehicles system let alone hacked?

    Could you have personalities for your car, BMW and Mercedes cars could be lane hogging pricks just to make it more true to life?

    Ok that's enough bollards from me.

    Ian.

    1. Vic

      Re: Traffic lights

      They have all this technology and IMHO it's not implemented correctly

      That's your opinion. The junction designers will, obviously, disgree.

      you will notice a vehicle at the lights say 200 yards ahead and the lights go on green but by the time you get there it's back to red, no vehicle has come onto or through from the junction from either side

      This is frequently the case if you are trying to drive between lights above the speed limit[1]. It is deliberate.

      can't we have a system that sees say ten cars on the main road and two on the minor road and adjust the lights accordingly?

      Yes, you can. And, moreover, you've got it. Junctions have counted cars and measured approach speeds for *decades*. The behaviour you are seeing is almost certainly the behaviour the designer wanted. There might well be a good reason for him wanting something different to what you want.

      This road is a particular pain in the bum as the speed limit on parts of it have been reduced to 40 MPH because of a few pedestrian accidents and at least one bicycle death.

      If you've got pedestrians and bicycles on the road, that really doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Have a go at walking/cycling along a road with traffic coming past you at 60mph - it's really not pleasant, especially when certain drivers can't estimate the width of their vehicles as well as they think they can[2].

      It's a three lane road in some places FFS the same as most motorways

      It's very different from a motorway. A motorway is entirely populated with performance motor vehicles driven by trained and qualified drivers.

      If traffic lights were clever and detect that one side of the junction was far busier than the others it could instead of just being on a timer and adjust accordingly, maybe this already exist to a degree but I've never seen it in action

      It is probable that every major junction you've seen in the last 40 years or so has done exactly that - you will usually see at least two sets of tar-filled trace cuts in the road (diamond or rhomboid depending on manufacturer) and often IR and doppler sensors on the signal head. That this system gives different control signals to the ones you want might give you pause for thought.

      Disclosure: yes, I've worked in this industry.

      Vic.

      [1] I've seen - and made - many claims that the target speed is actually less than the speed limit. I cannot confirm that it is so - but that might be appropriate at highly-congested times, when a small reduction in speed leads to a large increase in throughput.

      [2] I was walking along the road in Lymington a couple of weeks ago, and actually had to jump into the hedge twice to avoid being hit by vans. It is time for motorists (including me) to be held accountable for their actions...

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