back to article 'Planet nine' theory boosted by Kuiper Belt Object with odd orbit

The long-controversial notion that there's an as-yet-undiscovered “ninth planet*” has had a boost from the best kind of science: a prediction of its effects, borne out by observation. The boffins that re-opened the debate in January this year, Caltech's Konstantin Batygin and Mike Brown, are feeling vindicated after a …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Trollface

    What we need to find planet 9 is a plan

    Maybe a plan 9? For outer space?

    1. Oengus
      Paris Hilton

      Re: What we need to find planet 9 is a plan

      So I wasn't the only person that initially read it as "Plan 9"...

      Paris, because I think I was having a "Blonde" moment.

    2. lorisarvendu

      Re: What we need to find planet 9 is a plan

      I have Grave doubts about your theory.

      ...is that my coat over there? Thanks...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What we need to find planet 9 is a plan

        @Iorisarvendu:

        No coat for you, but I have Bela Lugosi's old cloak over here....

        1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

          Re: What we need to find planet 9 is a plan

          Bela Lugosi is dead

    3. Steve K

      Milankovitch cycles

      Could this explain the Milankovitch cycles in any way (i.e. when the Earth and this planets' orbits are in the right orientation and hence resonance every n*20000 years-ish) or should I get a bigger tin-foil hat?

      Steve

      1. Rich 11

        Re: Milankovitch cycles

        in any way

        Yes, in that gravity's range is infinite. In any significant way, no, not really. Something 75 times further away than Pluto would have to be twice as massive as Saturn to have the same effect on the Earth as Pluto presently does (and Pluto only has about 2% of the Earth's mass).

        1. beep54
          Unhappy

          Re: Milankovitch cycles

          @Rich 11: So. Yet another example of science ruining everythng since 1543.

        2. YARR

          Re: Milankovitch cycles

          If the orbit is very eccentric and the average distance from the Sun is 75x Plutos, it's closest approach might affect Earth's gravity significantly.

          However I'm confused that an object of that size could have escaped observation for so long, given that astronomers can measure visible light emitted from exoplanets.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @YARR

            Because they aren't measuring light emitted by exoplanets, but rather light reflected by them. That's why we mostly discover planets close to their sun, or really huge ones. The number of planets we've discovered 75 Plutos from their star is probably near zero.

            Also, depending on where it is currently, Kuiper Belt objects may be in the way.

  2. Gordon 10

    Anyone feel a pulp scifi novel coming on?

    It came from planet X.....

    1. seanj
      Alien

      Re: Anyone feel a pulp scifi novel coming on?

      You mean planet IX, surely?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Anyone feel a pulp scifi novel coming on?

        Planet IX is the home of cheap-ass incomptetently written AI though.

      2. daemonoid

        Re: Anyone feel a pulp scifi novel coming on?

        "You mean planet IX, surely?"

        only in New Zealand...

      3. Mutton Jeff

        Re: Anyone feel a pulp scifi novel coming on?

        Bank of Planet IX.. Wonder if they'll lend us some money.

    2. ARGO

      Re: Anyone feel a pulp scifi novel coming on?

      Planet X was an episode of Duck Dodgers in the 24th and a half century .

      1. Anonymous Custard
        Boffin

        Re: Anyone feel a pulp scifi novel coming on?

        We're running out of Illudium Phosdex?

        That may explain all the hipster beards around lately...

    3. Timbo

      Re: Anyone feel a pulp scifi novel coming on?

      Haven't you seen the Tom Swift Jr adventures ?

      This might help :)

      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111929246070

  3. chivo243 Silver badge

    Wasn't there a sci-fi story about this?

    A planet with an odd orbit, only visible when it passed in close to the solar system?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wasn't there a sci-fi story about this?

      Probably around 10⁵ stories about that.

    2. Swarthy

      Re: Wasn't there a sci-fi story about this?

      So a distant planet, for out in the Kupier Belt (or perhaps Oort cloud?)..Here's hoping it's not red.

      Then again, I wouldn't mind having a companion dragon.

      1. Ugotta B. Kiddingme

        Re: @Swarthy

        and we have lots of manufacturing capacity for Agenothree. Upvoted for the Pern reference.

        On a related note, I have always thought that, with proper cinematic treatment, that series could rival the Star Wars saga. And for bonus points: it's never been done so, not a [string of expletives] remake/reimagining/reclusterfuck.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: @Swarthy

          > Upvoted for the Pern reference.

          Seconded.

          > with proper cinematic treatment, that series could rival the Star Wars saga

          Indeed. But it would probably get Hollywooded and so be an utter shambles.

  4. wolfetone Silver badge

    Planet Nine?

    Well, it's Planet Ten for a start. But when can we start calling it Nibiru?

    1. frank ly

      Re: Planet Nine?

      Just let it wear clothes and call it Goofy.

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: Planet Nine?

        I don't think Primark make garments that big, but I'll ask them.

        What am I saying? Primark don't make garments. They make rags.

      2. Sir Sham Cad

        Re: Planet Nine?

        It'll end up being called Planety McPlanetface and you know it.

    2. Blank-Reg
      Holmes

      Re: Planet Nine?

      Prefer Mondas myself. Though, we need to be wary of any metallic like objects spotted on the surface and be suspicious of any Earth bound polar stations going mysteriously quiet.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Planet Nine?

      It would be Planet 11 if you were really insistent on calling Pluto a planet. Eris is a more massive "planet" than Pluto...

  5. WonkoTheSane
    Alien

    Planet Ten?

    Beware Red Lectroids!

    1. cray74

      Re: Planet Ten?

      Beware Red Lectroids!

      Don't worry, mon. Dey all be banished to da eighth dimension.

  6. GrumpenKraut

    "There are 9 planets in the solar system"

    Discuss, using a shovel (see item 3).

  7. JJKing
    Happy

    Planey IX.....Planet IX.......Planet IX....etc.....etc

    I for one shall welcome our Planet IX overlords and their sharks with lasers.........if they ever get here that is.

  8. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    If someone else can arrange transport I'd be willing to go out there and have a look.

  9. 0laf

    Hurry up

    If the boffins could please hurry up and find out lots bout this planet please. My space obsessed 5yr old needs to know what it's called, how big it is, how many moons etc etc.

    Also wasn't Ix a planet in the Dune books.

    [clicky click]

    "Ix is the ninth planet in the star system Alkalurops, and ruled by the Ixian Technocracy. The Ixian economy depends on manufacturing complex machinery, which sometimes flouts the moral-juridical proscriptions of the Butlerian Jihad"

    1. Swarthy

      Re: Hurry up

      I thought Ix meant "boy who is not able to satisfactorily explain what a hrung is, nor why it should have chosen to collapse on Betelgeuse Seven"

  10. VinceH

    Optional

    "If Brown and Batygin are right, the new planet would have an orbit so distant (75 times further from the Sun than Pluto) and elongated it needs between 10,000 years and 20,000 years to complete."

    Something doesn't add up.

    With nothing specified, when talking about a planet's distance from the Sun I'd assume it to be a reference to the semi-major axis. Pluto's is about 6 billion km from the Sun, so 75 times that is 450 billion km.

    Back in January it was suggested that it could get as far as 200 times further out from the Sun than Earth - which wording makes me think aphelion, but for Earth that isn't hugely far out (astronomically speaking) than its semi-major axis. And that's 150 million km, so 200 times that is 30 billion.

    The mystery planet seems to be getting further away.

    Even basing the first suggestion on Pluto's aphelion and perihelion, the numbers are inconsistent:

    Its aphelion is 7.3 billion km: 75 times that is 547.5 billion km, and its perihelion is 4.4 billion km, which gives us 330 billion km. Both of which are considerably further out than 30 billion.

    But looking at that last calculation, based on Pluto's perihelion, I wonder if someone's misplaced a decimal point somewhere?*

    Also: Perhaps they only think they're looking for a single planet when there are actually two (or more) at different distances. Try 11.5 billion and 22.5 billion.

    * And I wonder if it's me?

    1. NomNomNom

      Re: Optional

      You are confusing things with logic and calculations. The planet is out there that's all we need to know. That and it will soon return heralding the beginning of the next reptilian egg hatching cycle. That's why they are mobilising Donald Trump 5 years ahead of schedule

  11. Timbo

    Mmmmmmmmm...

    If you watch the video at the end of the article, I just love the sound from Michele Bannister, just after she is introduced (about 45 seconds in), when she does a quite loud "mmmmmmmmmm" before her presentation - maybe she fancies the chap who introduced her ??

    1. Graham Jordan

      Re: Mmmmmmmmm...

      I tried to watch the video but her accent sounds like it came from Planet 9 and sent me to sleep.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The problem with trowing things at a dart board...

    Is something will stick. It may be this orbit suggests a ninth planet, but if the thousands of others don't, then is not another theory more likely?

    If they found lots of these things, then it would suggest it. But have other mistakes like this not been made in the past and it was not an additional planet, but the existing setup that was causing the changes/orbits.

    1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

      Re: The problem with trowing things at a dart board...

      As ever, we need more data. Finding a couple of KBOs with an orbit suggesting some large object is "shepherding" them is interesting, but not proof. Finding another object in an orbit that might be consistent with it is also interesting, but not proof. What it does mean is that we have reason to look for more data. At some point we might get a sufficient excess of KBOs in compatible orbits to prove it is unlikely that it is caused by chance. Finding the planet itself would of course clinch it.

      Time will tell (soon I hope)

  13. Jedipadawan

    Given the Pluto/Planet 9 problem...

    ...perhaps the conjectural planet should be known as planet 9.1?

    1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Given the Pluto/P.anet 9 problem...

      Alternatively, if you want to call it a "dwarf planet" give it a proper dwarf name.

      Like Glod

      OK, OK, I should be going. The one with "Thud" in the pocket, please

      1. Jedipadawan

        Re: Given the Pluto/Planet 9 problem...

        Gimli?

        Or...

        Doc, Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, Bashful, Sneezy, Dopey?

        or, failing all that, how about

        Kathleen

        Short for 'Pluto.'

        [And sorry about the 'Planet' typo. Very tired...]

    2. VinceH

      Re: Given the Pluto/Planet 9 problem...

      "perhaps the conjectural planet should be known as planet 9.1?"

      If you watch the video, you'll see the name 'Microsoft' on the podium.

      Microsoft went from eight to ten with Windows - so this must be planet ten. Which means that in order to find it, we just need to look for the telemetry it's spewing out.

      (Also: We now know the real reason Pluto was demoted to a dwarf planet).

      The Solar System: Sponsored by Microsoft.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Lost

    Having spent too much time on youtube seeing videos about Niburu, Planet X Anu, Enki and Enlil etc. I was feeling smug in my scientific belief "listen kids if there really was a big planet out there don't you think we would detected it by now?"

    Then this comes along, I feel like the guy who has stepped in bigfoot crap, I want to brush it off but there is a lot of it.

    1. NomNomNom

      Re: Lost

      Not so sure jet fuel can melt steel beams now are we

      1. Alien8n

        Re: Lost

        @NomNomNom no one said jet fuel could melt steel. It can however burn hot enough to turn steel into a form that will bend and warp. It's a fundamental property of pretty much any metal that has been well understood by blacksmiths for centuries (it's why you don't try and make a sword from cold iron, you have to heat it in a forge first). The forging temperature of steel is around 1000C. To weaken steel you don't even have to reach this temperature, at about 500C the structural strength of steel is about 50% of it's strength at room temperature. The temperature reached in the WTC was estimated to be around 1200C and the jet fuel itself was estimated to be around 900C (aviation fuel wasn't the only thing that was on fire).

        While this does not in itself disprove a conspiracy theory, it does fit the evidence at the time. It's more than plausible that the planes were the cause of the towers collapsing, no further interference was necessary and tin foil hats are not required.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Lost

          @ Alien8n

          Much as I hate to get drawn on this subject, mainly because “thinking” is unpatriotic.

          I have found there are two basic types of people when it comes to this subject

          1. those who look at hundreds of facts, observations, motivations and connections.

          2. those who would rather not have to think.

          The second group are normally identified by the urge to other stop people thinking too.

          Ending and comments with “Period”, or “No further thought required”

          For those with brains feel free to use them, with my blessing.

      2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken
    2. Alien8n

      Re: Lost

      With all the advances in science recently I have to think nothing is impossible until proven impossible. A couple of examples:

      1. Nothing can escape from a black hole. Except recent studies have shown this is no longer true.

      2. The Standard Model is proven. And so far all proven observations do fit the Standard Model of particle physics (up to and including the Higgs Boson). Except recent observations are increasingly breaking the Standard Model, while not to a level of certainty to be classed as proof as yet.

      We're at a level technologically where science fiction is just a few years in the future. Anti gravity, teleportation, cloaking devices, all are being shown to be theoretically possible, we just need to advance technology far enough to make it happen.

      1. Gio Ciampa

        Re: Lost

        "1. Nothing can escape from a black hole. Except recent studies have shown this is no longer true."

        If you're referring to Hawking Radiation then matter isn't escaping as such - one half of a (usually short-lived) pair of virtual particles is consumed by the hole, leaving its partner to escape... the appearance is thus that the hole has emitted it (and loses mass as a result)

        1. Alien8n

          Re: Lost

          @ Gio Ciampa no, there was an article back in January about a black hole that was seen emitting visible light. Admittedly not from the singularity itself but it's still escaping from the black hole.

          1. Captain DaFt

            Re: Lost

            Actual mass loss occurred when the two black holes collided that generated the gravity waves that were recently detected:

            A mass three times the mass of the sun was lost!

            That mass was turned into energy, which caused the ripples in spacetime – gravitational waves – that LIGO detected 1.3 billion years later.

            So energy/matter can escape black holes in certain extraordinary conditions.

  15. J P
    Childcatcher

    Typical

    I just get the luminous solar system set up on my daughter's bedroom ceiling ("Pack contains 8 planets and a Pluto" before you ask), all orbits proportionately scaled (sort of; the planets themselves are too similar in size - and an orbit accurately scaled to the size of the Earth model would have required a 5 mile wide bedroom) and now this.

    I suppose we'll just have to blutack a bouncy ball to the bathroom ceiling or something.

    1. Steve K

      Re: Typical

      The proposed orbit is pretty big, so maybe your neighbour's bathroom ceiling might be better?

  16. Goit
    Alien

    Knocking asteroids out of orbit eh?

    It's an ugly planet, a bug planet!

  17. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

    The really exciting bit would be getting to see what a planet of ~10 terrestrial masses looks like. Earth is the heaviest of all the inner planets and the lightest gas giant (Uranus) is about 15 Earth masses. So is Planet IX a (frozen?) gas giant or is it a rocky terrestrial planet? It would have implications for models of solar system formation, too.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Boffin

      Of course planet 9 might not be of this solar system, but a stray from somewhere else that got captured as it went flying by many eons ago...

      1. Alien8n

        @ Marketing Hack We need Flash Gordon to save us from Ming The Merciless

        1. Anonymous Custard
          Joke

          Quick, someone send for Hans Zarkov!

          He was formerly at NASA, but has also been seen playing music on the roof...

      2. madick

        ...but a stray from somewhere else ...

        I think it probably has to be. I don't known of any models on solar system formation that would allow for a planet of that sort of mass (Earth x10) to be formed with that sort of eccentric, inclined orbit.

  18. Professur

    What really sucks is that New Horizons is zipping off in the wrong direction.

  19. Dr. Ellen

    If we get pedantic ...

    When we ignore adjectives (rocky, gas giant, dwarf) the planet under discussion would be planet eleven-plus. Ceres was promoted to dwarf planethood also, restoring it to its glory as of its discovery, making Pluto planet ten. (Let's just fold Charon into that "ten" to keep things simple.)

    Who knows what other dwarf planets lie between Pluto and this hypothesis?

  20. John Savard

    Alternatively

    Yes, many people still think of Pluto as the ninth planet, even though then Eris would have to be the tenth. Perhaps this should be Planet Nine, Second Try, or Planet 9B.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Happy

      Re: Alternatively

      We could compromise, and rename Pluto as "Planet Nein".

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Alternatively

        Erdewie, Erdewo, Erdewahn

  21. Tromos
    Joke

    You WILL accept planet 10

    It is free for one year.

  22. WereWoof

    I wonder what part of peoples lives astrologers will claim this alleged planet controls?

  23. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    Found this snorkeling the 'net: Periodic mass extinctions and the Planet X model reconsidered, Monthly Notices Letters of the Royal Astronomical Society (abstract free / article pay walled)

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