If you can't buy bootleg gear online in New York, this may be why

Tuesday 26th January 2016 06:20 GMT allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

Interesting. I've been wondering about that from time to time - every now and then when something makes it past the spam filters in fact. Two questions always pop up: 1) who actually buys this crap* (both figuratively and literally) and 2) how does the money reaches the scammers? No point in setting up such a "business" if you can't get your hands on some cash from it.

No surprise however on the most effective counter attack vector - money (either by giving or denying it) is the best weapon there is.

*Rethorical. Don't bother - we all know. Same as the teleshopping channels. Just keep an eye open at garage sales or on who brings what to the landfill.**

** "I know what's going on in the neighbourhood - I don't live next to the bottle bank for nothing!"

Bootnote: I still think it's an ill-chosen name for a conference. Come on, I can't be the only one who reads it as unisex enema at first every bloody time.

8 0 Reply
1. Tuesday 26th January 2016 07:36 GMT Doogs
  
  You know, I really thought it said Unisex Smegma for a couple of seconds...
  
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2. Tuesday 26th January 2016 09:46 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Possibly...
  
  Just Amazon and Paypal? How hard is it to rinse and repeat on burned accounts through Paypal if they get caught? If it's a grey enough trade, how long before customer complain, if ever?
  
  Who gets caught? Lots of people. Many people just either don't understand the meaning or difference or risk of counterfeit goods (fake Windows DVDs) or just don't care (fake handbags).
  
  Some will have no effect on the customer, except possibly a lower quality (fake handbag). But some could turn out to be a total scam (Fake Windows key, that just returns "not valid").
  
  I've had the conversations, and it requires helping people to learn. Just because something is on the internet, and cheap, does not mean it's "real". But the temptation for a deal or a cheap purchase is so high.
  
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  1. Tuesday 26th January 2016 10:39 GMT Alan Brown
    
    Re: Possibly...
    
    > Just because something is on the internet, and cheap, does not mean it's "real".
    
    Just because it's the same price as the genuine article (or only slightly cheaper) doesn't mean it's real either.
    
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    1. Tuesday 26th January 2016 10:51 GMT Mage
      
      Re: Possibly...
      
      Some of the "real" stuff is poorer or as cheaply made as more generic labels and brands (legitimate ones). That's why the "counterfeiting" is popular and easy.
      
      2 0 Reply
Tuesday 26th January 2016 06:54 GMT chivo243

Somehow

if you stop enough "people" from getting their money, you may end up sleeping with the fishies. Crims get no money, poor people can't look rich by buying knock-offs, do the math.

2 0 Reply
1. Tuesday 26th January 2016 07:55 GMT Destroy All Monsters
  
  Re: Somehow
  
  Plujs you can't legally carry in NY to take the trash out.
  
  What a sad country.
  
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  1. Tuesday 26th January 2016 08:37 GMT James 51
    
    Re: Somehow
    
    Wow, not only sad but crazy too. May be if you put it in sealed bags and put them in some brown paper bags you could make it to the dump without being spotted..
    
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Tuesday 26th January 2016 10:34 GMT Doctor_Wibble

Payment processors I've never heard of

So the two payment processors I've never heard of are based in China? It's bad enough having to trust an EU-based one without a UK office, yet people are happy to trust one that's way out of any reachable jurisdiction? My trust issues wouldn't even let me get started, never mind the rhetorical 'who buys this crap anyway' as per the first post.

FTA: "Part of the problem is China’s strict banking secrecy laws" well yes because those are there to protect Chinese businesses, not the rest of the world, which is more or less in line with what one might expect from one's own glorious overlords.

If you are buying knockoff branded goods because your friends look down on you for not having the right designer logo, then you really need some new friends. Or a tin of paint. Or possibly both.

0 1 Reply
1. Tuesday 26th January 2016 11:38 GMT Gordon 10
  
  Re: Payment processors I've never heard of
  
  you do get that the consumer doesn't give a stuff if they have heard of a payment processor as long as they accept their credit or debit card don't you? Arguably they shouldn't need to either as the card brands do the due diligence on making sure the processors are legit from a money transfer point of view.
  
  Apart from the actual goods potentially being tat this crime ain't really aimed at consumers rather luxury and high end brands whose main purpose is sticking a "name" on an otherwise ordinary watch/phone/shoe/handbag.
  
  Having said that I had to google worldpay and sagepay when they first started popping up at the checkout, but then Im a commentard from Planet Reg and so sharp I'll cut myself one day.
  
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  1. Tuesday 26th January 2016 12:06 GMT Doctor_Wibble
    
    Re: Payment processors I've never heard of
    
    > you do get that the consumer doesn't give a stuff
    
    Indeed, and this is one of the dual-personality advantage/disadvantage features of the internet, sometimes it doesn't matter who does which part of an operation, and sometimes it does...
    
    No argument about overrated brand names, same sweat-shop, different badge...
    
    > but then I'm a commentard from Planet Reg and so sharp I'll cut myself one day.
    
    :D and yet none of this matters when our card details get taken from the online retailer's database or apparently sniffed off their network! We are always vulnerable from the failings of those we trust.
    
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  2. Tuesday 26th January 2016 16:53 GMT Skoorb
    
    Re: Payment processors I've never heard of
    
    As a consumer you don't always know who the payment processor is either:
    
    - ever
    
    - or at least until you get your card statement.
    
    Quite often you will have to ring your card issuer and ask them to find out who the processor is for a transaction.
    
    This is exactly why this researcher is trying to get company cards / prepaid credit cards. So he can actually 'buy' the fake stuff to see which payment processor actually charges his card!
    
    1 0 Reply
Tuesday 26th January 2016 11:06 GMT JeffyPoooh

Knock-off goods sometimes made during 2nd shift

Sometimes, they're literally exactly the same because the contracted factory just runs a 2nd 'unlicensed' shift. Seems to apply to handbags.

How does PayPal relate to this? I can't see using an actual credit card directly with a dodgy knockoff vendor.

2 0 Reply
1. Tuesday 26th January 2016 11:44 GMT Gordon 10
  
  Re: Knock-off goods sometimes made during 2nd shift
  
  The payment processors are the dodgy ones. (for values of dodgy) Bear in mind this is mostly high value (poss low worth? :P) Brandopolists we are talking about. So some would argue that this is a victimless crime. Not sure I would go that far but its certainly much further down the scale than illicit transfers to them paedoterrorists on silk road.
  
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Tuesday 26th January 2016 16:21 GMT Anonymous Coward

> China’s strict banking secrecy laws

Wow.

So it seems that we have to look to China for integrity these days.

0 0 Reply
Tuesday 26th January 2016 18:39 GMT Scott 26

you say potato...

> China’s strict banking secrecy laws

Interesting terminology "secrecy laws" like its a bad thing stopping the research...

Whereas, in the western hemisphere, you'd expect a phrase like "privacy laws"

3 0 Reply
Tuesday 26th January 2016 22:33 GMT Keven E

Gordon's fishsticks

"Brandopolists...." Wonderful stuff! I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for someone to sue because those American cut french-fries too closely resemble my flavor, color and clientele. The second *shift issue is a real problem, where it's really the worker that gets the *shaft. When someone asks me if it's safe to use the internet for buying things, my first question (after a good chuckle) is "what is it that you are buying... doesn't Joe's down the street have those"? and "Don't pay with anything other than a debit card, and never pay for shipping you lazy b......". To me knockoffs mean "materialistc parody"... "structuralist fair-use". Think of all the glass-houses that look alike.

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