back to article Sena's multi-action camera monster, or Cardo's PackTalk club rider juggernaut?

Riding the twisties on a motorbike is the great escape for some of us; the scent of the air, the rush of wind, the push through the corners, and the sound of the engine. But it's not always an escape. The daily commute on a straight-as-a-board freeway is not much better than the bus, and it can be irritating to try to talk to …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fremen 'Stilsuits'

    How are they getting on for fresh water down under?.....are you all still on the urine-recyc, or have you had any precipitation yet?

    This is genuINE conCERN!!!!!

    1. E 2

      Re: Fremen 'Stilsuits'

      I thot all they drink in Australia is spice beer!

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    User's / buyer's thoughts

    It is interesting that Sena did not send their far more sophisticated, top-of-the line yet reportedly-starcrossed 20c for your testing, but rather and steady-and-reliable updated 10 series.

    I just updated my 6-year old BT helmet system this year and I did check both brands out, both Sena and Cardo, but strangely chose neither. As webBikeWorld reports and web searches confirm, more than just a few Sena 20c owners end up with problems in the module-to-mount electrical connections, and Sena's new BT handlebar remote is just a bit awkward. The Sena 10 series was extremely promising but I take issue with their huge helmet clamps and their hidden 10R and 10U models both had some type of limitation that did not work for my, admittedly, complex needs.

    The Cardos seemed nice but somehow didn't wow me.

    Interphone is coming out with some new models this year, and they look exciting, but I think it best that other people play guinea pig rather than myself so I went with something else.

    In other words, it seems that potential buyers must examine these products themselves, checklist of requirements in hand, before buying. Don't trust the reviews nor the promise on the tin, it may not meet up with those promises or your very specific needs (if you have experience to let you know what those needs are). Bring your BT device/source(s) and check out connectivity, sound quality, operation controls, etc, before buying as it seems that many dealers have short return policies on motorcycle electronics.

  3. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    Thanks for the tip re sewing a conductive thread in the glove!

  4. Tom Chiverton 1
    FAIL

    " you aren't going to hear the ambulance over Metallica"

    Resposible.

  5. Juan Inamillion

    Thank you.

    As biker for 40+ years I finally read an interesting, sensible and informative review of some bike accessories. A real rider who admits to not using (maybe not needing) all the bells and whistles available, simply loads up and rides out. Read the manual? WTF for!

    Personally I usually like to ride 'voice free' (my girlfriend wouldn't appreciate this but she doesn't read El Reg). But with everyone on mobile phones and the burgeoning need to video one's progress in case of trouble, i'm bending toward equipping myself with something like this.

    Ride on.

  6. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    The Black Spur, Victoria looks like the Black Forest plus palmtrees. I think I should go there sometime.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you stream music

    while you are riding a bike then you deserve all you get.

    Anything that distracts you from the road and the numpties in their tin-cans can be fatal to you.

    Biers are referred to as 'organ donors' in many hospitals. Listening to Music while sitting on the front seat of a bike is plain loony IMHO.

    I passed my bike test 46 years ago this week and have ridden ever since. I've covered at least 400,000 miles over the years and I'm sill here. I do have an intercom but my passenger knows when it is safe to use it.

    My current mount is a 2015 Triumph Trophy SE. It has a Radio but that only gets used when I'm parked up.

    1. Stoneshop
      FAIL

      Re: If you stream music

      Biers are referred to as 'organ donors' in many hospitals.

      Ever talked to an actual ER medic? Hint: they don't care much for spare parts of which the parts carrier expired outside medical montoring.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: If you stream music

        Modern Life support systems can often keep an injured person alive until they reach hospital where the Docs can pronounce death (or not). Organ harvesting can begin at that point or later if the casutalty is kept alive on a ventilator until it is agree by all that it can be switched off.

        Sorry, but my original premise still stands. Any rider listening to music while in control of a bike is just asking for trouble. Anything that can divert your concentration from the road ahead and the loonies in their tin cans all around you should not be on the road.

        I was guilty of losing concentration on a bike a long time ago (circa 1975). I didn't go round a roundabout but went straight on. I was lucky. only an arm broken in two places.

        1. Stoneshop

          Re: If you stream music

          Modern Life support systems can often keep an injured person alive until they reach hospital

          Which means they're being monitored

          Anyway, if you're distracted by music, don't put it on. I have rarely felt the need to listen to music while riding, but occasionally (need to) ride with a fairly constant stream of info coming in over a two-way radio, some of which may be meant for me or something that I may need to act on because I'm close, so I can't just switch it off or zone it out. However, this hasn't ever caused distraction to the point of getting myself into a hairy situation.

        2. Unep Eurobats
          Childcatcher

          Re: If you stream music

          It's a contentious topic with cyclists too. Hasn't somewhere in the States just banned cycling with headphones? Motorcyclists would be harder to police in this respect but I wouldn't be surprised if they tried in legislation-happy Australia.

    2. RockBurner

      Re: If you stream music

      If you stream music

      while you are riding a bike then you deserve all you get.

      Anything that distracts you from the road and the numpties in their tin-cans can be fatal to you.

      Biers are referred to as 'organ donors' in many hospitals. Listening to Music while sitting on the front seat of a bike is plain loony IMHO.

      Why is that different to a car driver using a radio?

      Or are you one of the paranoid IAMers who thinks that 'everyone is out to get them' ?

      1. Stoneshop

        Paranoid IAMer?

        Not much. Certainly not IAM*, and at a level of road awareness that wouldn't even start to approach 'paranoid', but sufficient to have not suffered prangs more serious than a couple of bruises over twenty years and 300Mm, and then most of them due to, ahem, sudden lack of traction. And none caused by abrupt deceleration involving another vehicle.

        *whazzat? International Association of Movers?

    3. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: If you stream music

      Ahh the voice of (un)reason

      Thou shalnt listen to music over headphones while riding a bike in case it distracts you. but of course you can legally drive a car with boom boxes so loud they cause structural damage to any building within 100 feet.

      What you dont realise is that the numpties in the tin cans are out to get you regardless of if you can hear them and you have to drive accordingly.

      Oh and the medics dont refer to bikers as "organ donors"... well not within earshot anyway.

      Bet you're the sort of tsk tsk biker who shakes his head and tuts when he get overtaken..

      Boris The Cockroach

      Driven bikes since 1984, and currently the owner of a FJ12, a FJ13, a Ducati SD900, and a SV650 and a rather spotty licence ;)

  8. Jan 0 Silver badge

    At last a Reg article for contractors!

    Well, Real Contractors (tm) all ride bikes don't we? How else would we handle long commutes in a post-Beeching country? However, I'm afraid it all goes downhill from there (and not in a good way).

    I'm wary of sticking things to my helmet so, for me, cameras belong on bar or fairing mounts and I like helmets with built in bluetooth communicators like Schuberth and Nolan. I'd never allow the distraction of 'phone calls or pillion chat, but I like to hear Digital Doris (satnav) clearly and I don't think that familiar music is distracting.

    Antipodean "Safety Implications": What really surprised me in the video was seeing that armoured mesh jackets aren't available in Australia! Yikes, what did you have on your lower half? In Europe we can even get ventilated boots to go with our ventilated trousers. Not having perforated gloves in summer would be as daft as not having heated grips in winter, do keep up!

  9. Gene Cash Silver badge
    IT Angle

    NFC tag

    I have an Bluetooth Low-Energy tag on my bikes. When I get on, it starts an app that monitors my location. When I get within 70 meters of home, it commands the Raspberry Pi in my garage to open the garage door over the cell data connection. I ride in, and 2 seconds after I break the beam sensor it closes the door.

    When I leave, I push the door button and not only does it open the door, it arms the beam sensor to close the door when I leave.

    There's yer IT related content, mate!

    1. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

      Re: NFC tag

      @ Gene

      Details please! Which tag, which app?

  10. Gene Cash Silver badge

    Speakers or earplugs?

    So I've not had a helmet since '88 that didn't have bad wind noise, even including the expensive Schuberth Helme ones, so I wear Etymotic ER 20 earplugs on every ride. It would seem speakers are useless on a naked bike. Are these reviewed units speaker only or are they earphone compatible?

    I don't care about music, but talking to a passenger or other rider is valuable.

    The reason GoPros are so nice is they use an expensive global shutter - each frame is captured at once so it's very resistant to the effects of vibration. The cheaper cameras use rolling shutters where the image is captured a line at a time - this has horrible aliasing effects due to vibration. Any engine or road vibration and they're a useless jumble of pixels.

    That's the GoPro "secret sauce" which explains why they're so expensive yet so popular.

    A smart Brit talks about shutter designs here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmjeCchGRQo

    1. RockBurner

      Re: Speakers or earplugs?

      Speakers or earplugs?

      So I've not had a helmet since '88 that didn't have bad wind noise, even including the expensive Schuberth Helme ones, so I wear Etymotic ER 20 earplugs on every ride. It would seem speakers are useless on a naked bike. Are these reviewed units speaker only or are they earphone compatible?

      I don't care about music, but talking to a passenger or other rider is valuable.

      I've used a Scala system with in-helmet speakers and earplugs in the lugholes; and could hear the voice traffic clearly, whilst having the wind-noise cut out very nicely. Earplugs only block certain frequencies - mainly the damaging high ones.

  11. Gene Cash Silver badge
    Headmaster

    Clarification

    By "engine or road vibration" I meant cameras mounted on the bars or tank... if they're on the helmet, they're not going to be affected.

  12. jake Silver badge

    When I ride, I ride.

    All these bells and whistles just cause distraction ... Shirley the cages are bad enough all by themselves, without us contributing to the problem?

    1. Stoneshop

      Re: When I ride, I ride.

      Never ridden anywhere where the cager count is less than one per hour? Pity. Though in those places you tend to need to keep an eye on reindeer and moose, but on wide open tundra they rarely sneak up on you to surprise you.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: When I ride, I ride.

        "Never ridden anywhere where the cager count is less than one per hour?"

        Many times. I've ridden Gracie[0] from Sonoma, CA to Anchorage AK and back with my wife a pillion passenger (7 days in, 7 days out. About 7,500 miles total. Once, never again. Unless there is another important wedding up there).

        It's that one cage when you are distracted that is the problem.

        [0] http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/containing/1230455

  13. Paul Smith

    I dont get it?

    I don't understand how a review of motorbike intercoms could include the sentence..."I couldn't test the intercom, having reviewed a single unit". Are you applying for a job with MCN?

  14. Nick Pettefar

    Unadorned

    I used to use Scala Riders, the ones that come with a TomTom Rider v2, purely to listen to the satnav instructions but nowadays I just glance at the satnav screen from time to time. I never liked the faff of keeping them charged and pairing, etc. I prefer to listen to the sound of my R nineT. (Yet another Unix contractor biker.)

  15. 2StrokeRider

    I've owned likely every brand out there except some of the chinese knock offs. Some comments:

    Wear proper riding gear, those gloves aren't going to do a thing for your arms and torso when it all goes pants.

    The Sena products consistently last the longest, and can be beaten severely and still work fine. I tangled with a deer at high speed and while I lay there unable to move and in remarkable pain I marveled that the Sena FM radio was still playing in my helmet. Later I sealed up it's broken case and three years later am still using it.

    I don't personally use the telephone option because just as with a car, I don't use a telephone while driving or riding. This would be very distracting.

    Nice writeup. I may upgrade to the 20c, but for now my old 5FM and the SJ4000 are performing well enough.

  16. Mark Fenton

    Technology has regressed

    I find that I have little need or desire to listen to music on the bike and also I don't want to be disturbed mid-corner by a telephone call. What I want from bike intercoms is the ability to easily talk to others in the group.

    20yrs ago I had a radio intercom system - easy to use and the 2xAA batteries would last forever. It was vox activated and you could easily set it up - range was good for a mile line-of-sight and may be 1/2 mile in built up areas. Great for "which way at the next turning" and "watch out for the idiot in the blue car" and so on.

    Recently looked to buy a new set of intercoms and I couldn't find any VOX activated and the Bluetooth ones (whilst giving me functionality that I didn't want) only had a minimal range.

    Went down the line of buying some radio walky-talkies and a pair of vox headsets which allowed me Velcro the mic and speakers inside my lid no problems. No connections to a PTT button. Total cost for the pair about £150 and a range of 5miles line-of-sight.

    Why don't manufacturers make things we want instead of giving us inferior range and gadgets we don't need?

    I guess that's like the smartphone debate though - lots of great gadgets - less good for using as a phone for any length of time. Thing is, on a motorbike you don't want distracting gadgets....

  17. E 2

    I'm a cyclist and ex-motorcyclist. I have used headphones inside my helmets (both vehicles) but gave them up because they interfered with my ability to hear what is going on around me. I found that hearing was almost as important as seeing.

    However when skiing I find helmet-headphones brilliant.

  18. DMoy

    I've been riding high-performance motorcycles for 53 years (current ride: BMW K1200R), and have done well over a million miles. While I'm a big music fan, I don't have any real desire to listen to music while I ride, but I don't think that music at reasonable volumes is "distracting". I do value the intercom function, especially with my passenger (I hardly ever ride in groups). The vocal GPS guidance is very useful and reduces distraction, especially when navigating a complex route in heavy traffic.

    Having the phone available is, for me, an essential function. Aside from the possibility of falling off (pretty much avoided that for all those 53 years, touch wood), as a certified old-fart, I have to consider the possibility of confronting a "medical emergency". I don't like the thought of me lying in a ditch somewhere, being unable to call for help or to let rescuers know where I am.

    One question I have regarding this review: What in Hell is the point of wearing "cumbersome" armored gloves and an f'n tank-top for Chrisake?!?!? Geez man. Give your head a shake!

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