back to article Waving Microsoft's Windows 10 stick won't help Intel's Gen 6 core

Faster, longer battery life, chip-based security – innovation is alive and well in its sixth-generation Core chips, Intel claims, with the company officially launching its sixth-generation Core vPro processors on Tuesday, wrapped in a series of changes it claimed would inevitably drive sales. Two and a half times the …

  1. TRT Silver badge

    "businesses holding out on Windows XP and Windows 7 on old PCs,"

    As a business user, can I just point out that I buy my new hardware with Windows 7 on it. Mainly BECAUSE it has Windows 7 on it. Actually, I may not buy the very latest... Anyway, it clears the slightly older hardware channels of stock, what are you complaining about?!

  2. Tom Womack

    Is there anywhere still on a three-year refresh for desktop computers in general? It's just about worth doing for software developers, but for general call-centre users five years ought to be fine and I imagine people are heading towards seven. Laptops wear out more quickly and the good-enough moment for laptops was more recent.

    1. Preston Munchensonton
      Boffin

      That depends on the beancounters. Three-year leases are still common place, for those who don't want to hold the PC assets on their books. If customers are asking for longer leases, that will be newsworthy for the disruption to revenues of the likes of Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc.

      I do think this will be the trend, if it's not starting already. As you say, performance is sufficient with current hardware to warrant scaling back the level of refresh. In the end, however, it's all a matter of making the business case that some cost savings are possible.

      1. chivo243 Silver badge

        Three year leases yes, but if you own the hardware you will have a hard time jettisoning 3 year old hardware, I think your bean counters might want a word?

        1. Frank N. Stein

          Maybe selling that three year old hardware to employees at a discount is a quicker way to get that hardware off the books. The company won't get nearly what they paid for that hardware new, but it is a quick way to recoup some revenue. A three year old Machine will run Windows 10 just fine.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            "run Windows 10 just fine."

            Odd. It looks like plain English but it doesn't make sense.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        3 years? Wow.

        Someone's got some cash to splurge. It certainly isn't small businesses.

        My small businesses are typically doing 7-8 years, with a drive or RAM upgrade after 3-4 years (replacing with SSD and doubling RAM typically).

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Yep, just been through one. It will depend upon the accounting but in some places once the hardware has been written off it costs more to keep it than replace it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "once the hardware has been written off it costs more to keep it than replace it."

        What kind of numeracy leads to that conclusion?

        " It will depend upon the accounting "

        Ah OK.

        Q: What's two plus two?

        Standard answer: four.

        Accountant answer: who wants to know?

    3. Sgt_Oddball

      On the other hand, I bought an old cheap lenovo and replaced win7 with 10. Battery life went from an hour and half to around 2 hours 10. No other change of hardware and still running the original battery (a new one would half again more than what I paid for the laptop and since I don't need it unplugged too often not an issue)

      So the improvements in battery life might not be down purely to new chippage.

      1. Lorin Thwaits
        Windows

        So you got an extra 40 minutes of run time. But that's 40 more minutes you have to deal with a tiled OS as compared with one that's easier to use.

        Some would argue that there's extensive profiling being performed by Microsoft as well. Not sure about that myself, but the conspiracy theories abound.

    4. WatAWorld

      As well as technical need and prestige, there is the aspect of tax laws, that vary year-to-year and country-to-country.

      If your country changes the minimum depreciation period for hardware it affects what the beancounters will suggest for replacements.

    5. MyffyW Silver badge

      Anyone still on three year refresh?

      If you're leasing, it doesn't make much sense after three years, you might as well buy (similar outlay, even accounting for the time value of money).

      If you're buying, it does make sense to sweat them past three years, but maintenance can become a kerfuffle. A well known food company that I had a long-term dalliance with caused all sorts of work for the poor desktop support teams when it kept the PCs for 4+ years but the maintenance at only 3 years.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nonsense

    Most business PCs spend most of their time idle, because even though the meatbag in front of it is typing away like billy-oh, the PC is so fast that the avergae users needs are met with but a fraction of its power.

    The vast majority of the features in office software are unusued by the majority of users, never mind teh features in the OS beneath that. The fact is, that PC's and operating systems got to the point where they can comfotably handle most business needs years ago, at which point further innovation became, for a lot of people, counter-productive. New UI's that require retraining on the part of users, extra features that can,be too easily acidentally turned on and are too difficult to easily turnoff, processoirs that spend 99% of their time idle replaced by processors that spend 99.9% of their time idle... - these are all things that most businesses coudl well do without. Better security, now THAT's always welcome. Ditto customisability of the UI to allow people to amend their desktop to what works best for them.

    But forking out hundreds of quid every few years just to line Intels and MS's pockets? Especially when both of them seem to be doing their darndest to make things less secure in a world increasingly network-connected?

    No. hardware and software 'innovation' isn't what;s wanted here. It's an innovation in the minds of twits who think that businesses exist to support MS and Intels bad habits that's wanted. IMHO.

    1. Palpy

      Re: Nonsense

      Agree! The biggest user of resources on my work PC is not me, it's some Russian called Kaspersky.

    2. a_yank_lurker

      Re: Nonsense

      @Esme - Upvote and fully agree. The basic problem for Slurp and Chipzilla is the PC market is now a mature market with most sales replacing retiring kit. Personally, I can not remember a most-have new feature for any common application or OS in years maybe over a decade. Also, most hardware is sufficiently fast for most users that new hardware will not improve productivity or user experience to any great extent.

      1. rtb61

        Re: Nonsense

        The innovation people are waiting for voice and nothing more. Bit slow for skilled users but quite simply hugely better for unskilled users. What business wants an OS that pries into the activity of it's employees. Consider those activities are often high value proprietary secrets, that can be readily sold to competitors. The whole idea is sheer insanity, M$ is pushing one thing after another to try to force Windows anal probe 10 on people who simply do not want.

        They are going to force an upgrade cycle, not the one they want but an industry wide cross grade. Windows 8 dickish enough, they had to got one step further and it will cost them dearly. There response, fuck you customers, you do not choose, M$ chooses and they seem intent to break system that do not update on purpose to force a hugely perverted privacy invasive update and insider trading nightmare for businesses.

    3. wsm

      Re: Nonsense

      "No. hardware and software 'innovation' isn't what;s wanted here. It's an innovation in the minds of twits who think that businesses exist to support MS and Intels bad habits that's wanted. IMHO."

      Speaking of which: MS Office 2013 and 2016 have removed vital features that my office use for the reason we exist. The alternative processes have to do with running everything in Excel, which still can't handle large data sources and is as slow as Nadella's wit.

      MS is getting to be less and less useful to business users. Without the desktop market they have had for years, they've got nowhere to go but down and out. Soon, they'll be just like the IBM of the 90's--sinking fast and wondering what happened.

  4. Warm Braw

    "More secure"

    Interesting choice of words

    I'm not sure, "give us your information and we'll keep it safe for you" represents a great leap forward for my security.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Big Brother

      Re: "More secure"

      ...but why should security matters have anything but an inversely proportional relationship to your security?

      Move along...

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Let me get this straight...?

    If my phone (running Windows 10 naturally) strays outside of BT range from the PC the PC (running Windows 10 naturally) goes into lock mode.

    Is this some cunning plan by Wintel to get people onto the Windows 10 platform? I see Phones powered by Intel Silicon (W10 only) not that far away.

    So for those of us in the vast majority who run Android or IOS devices this 'feature' won't be available?

    Is BT that secure?

    Then there is this hidden OS on the new chips. All I see is part of a plan to take these devices out of out control.

    Thanks Intel but not for me.

    1. Paul IT
      WTF?

      Re: Let me get this straight...?

      Interestingly if your phone is lifted from your coat and walked away - you are locked out of your computer to report a theft... Needs some further thinking

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. annodomini2

        Re: Let me get this straight...?

        BOFH - Bluetooth jammer.

    2. The Real Tony Smith
      FAIL

      Re: Let me get this straight...?

      Windows 10 has nothing to do with it, this has been available for years in software (Kubuntu 8.10, no idea about Windows)

      This just extends it to hardware, always more secure than software.

      1. Roo
        Windows

        Re: Let me get this straight...?

        "This just extends it to hardware, always more secure than software."

        But it's not hardware.

        It's just more unauditable software (written by Intel) running at a privilege level that your OS has no control of or access to, oh and that same software talks to network hardware. You may as well run a webserver in the kernel while you're at it. Not Intel's finest hour IMO, YMMV.

        1. Palpy

          Re: "Might as well run a webserver in the kernel..."

          Ah, but mais oui. Intel's existing Management Engine boots before the kernel, actually, and it has "robust networking abilities". If you run a modern machine, then you've already got Intel's OS installed (or AMD, they have similar chipset managers).

          See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/31/rutkowska_talks_on_intel_x86_security_issues/

        2. Robert Helpmann??
          Childcatcher

          Re: Let me get this straight...?

          "This just extends it to hardware, always more secure than software."

          But it's not hardware.

          Let's pretend that we are in fact talking about security that is entirely chip-based. How does it get updated when it inevitably is popped? It can be flashed? Won't that introduce an attack vector? Chip-based security may help protect a device, but it amounts to another layer of security, nothing more than that. In this case, the strength of this link in the security chain is based at least in part on security by obscurity as I don't anticipate Intel open-sourcing their wares.

          1. WatAWorld

            Re: Let me get this straight...?

            "Let's pretend that we are in fact talking about security that is entirely chip-based. How does it get updated when it inevitably is popped? "

            You're wondering if this hardware feature will help hardware companies sell hardware?

            It probably will. (It will certainly sell more hardware than hoping some software company will sell it for them.)

            Other person's question: Will it be hacker-proof?

            No, but it will automatically secure your desktop when you walk away from it at your office. It sounds like it will secure at least as effectively as manually locking the screen or signing off. Similar with laptops.

            It also won't protect against nuclear attack.

            It is just an extra layer of security to automatically lock or shutdown your computer when you wander away from it.

            Of course it can be hacked. Any non-trivial software and hardware can be hacked. I think it is silly when people in our industry and the tech press keep expecting otherwise when they've already been provided with so much 'proof it is thus' by so many vendors and so many open source projects.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Holmes

          Re: Let me get this straight...?

          "(written by Intel)"

          Are you absolutely certain of that?

          1. Roo
            Coat

            Re: Let me get this straight...?

            "Are you absolutely certain of that?"

            Well, now that you mention it, no. :)

            I'll get my coat, it's the one with Security For Dummies in the pocket.

        4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Let me get this straight...?

          "You may as well run a webserver in the kernel while you're at it"

          Or in your init.

        5. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Let me get this straight...?

          uneditable software IS hardware, wether you IT blokes like it or not.

          1. Roo

            Re: Let me get this straight...?

            "uneditable software IS hardware, wether you IT blokes like it or not."

            Wrong.

      2. Kernel

        Re: Let me get this straight...?

        "Windows 10 has nothing to do with it, this has been available for years in software (Kubuntu 8.10, no idea about Windows)"

        Even older than that - I had an app for this on my Palm PDA many years ago. I removed it in the end because of all the practical day-to-day issues you will all think of eg., don't always have the phone on me, etc.

    3. dajames

      Re: Let me get this straight...?

      So for those of us in the vast majority who run Android or IOS devices this 'feature' won't be available?

      Far from it: For IOS and Android that facility is available now from a number of third-party vendors -- $SEARCH_ENGINE_OF_CHOICE will find them for you -- there's nothing new or innovative in locking a PC when a physical token is removed, be it a smartcard or a dongle or a bluetooth device.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      OS on an chip...EUFI?

      The direction that MS and Chipzilla are moving I would not be the least surprised that EUFI is used as OS lock out for most (all) OSs based on Linux and BSD distros. It'll be the big players only. No more hand rolled distros allowed.

      1. Richard Plinston

        Re: OS on an chip...EUFI?

        > No more hand rolled distros allowed.

        Maybe not on Intel, but there are many other chip makers. There are many other architectures too. Maybe this is the year of ARM on the desktop.

  6. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
    WTF?

    Microsoft will now cut off security updates for Windows 7 running on PCs that employ new chipsets from January 2020

    So, for the new PC I'm about to buy, I have a good reason not to get the latest chipset?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Weren't they going to cut off security updates from 2020 anyway? No matter what chipset you were running.

      Unless you were paying the big bucks for the special service from Microsoft.

    2. HamsterNet

      Havent tried it then?

      Windows 10 is an updated Win 7 done right but with some data collection added. Since FB, Google, Apple, GCHQ already know ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING about you already there not much hassle with another player getting some data on you is there :)

      Personally Windows 10 runs quicker, uses less resources and plays games better, thus myself and everybody on steam is using it. However it really doesnt need new hardware to run at all. This is one version of Windows that takes up less than the last two versions did.

      1. Richard Plinston

        Re: Havent tried it then?

        > Since FB, Google, Apple, GCHQ already know ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING about you already

        If those companies know everything about _you_, then you are a fool.

        They certainly know very little about me: I do not have a Facebook account, I have no Apple pips, I use Adblock, NoScript, Ghostery, RequestPolicy, and others. If you are providing your information to those then it is on a voluntary basis.

        With Windows 10, though, it seems these circumventions won't work and others seem to only be partially effective, or are so only until the next update.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    3 years? Pah!

    Ive got clients still rocking Core 2 machines. Q6600s mainly.

    Dell Precision T3400s I think.

    An SSD and reinstall is enough to improve them in most cases.

    I still use a T3500 with a Xeon X5690 in it.

    Cheap as chips and fast as f...even for gaming.

    I got CPU upgrade fatigue donkies years ago. It stopped mattering to me circa 2011...the real world performance gain is usually underwhelming.

    The biggest jump ive seen in recent years is SSDs. Which is unsuprising since thats where the bottleneck has been for over a decade.

    Id love to see the same power as a Xeon in a small form factor at a price less than £500.

    Id also like to see improvements elsewhere. Like better and smaller PSUs.

    The race for speed is done...get on with size, efficiency and price please.

    ...and ffs...lets get out of the 60hz 1080P (or eve 1366 x 768!!) screen era please. It was old fashioned and shit to begin with...I had a CRT that could reach 250hz at 2048 x 1536 x 24bpp over VGA. Why the god damn effing f**k have we not managed to do that with LCDs? I know I know theres "gaming" screens...but they have tradeoffs.

    Dont give me no "but icons...tiny...why?" rubbish either...

    Scaling!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 3 years? Pah!

      ...and ffs...lets get out of the 60hz 1080P (or eve 1366 x 768!!) screen era please. It was old fashioned and shit to begin with...I had a CRT that could reach 250hz at 2048 x 1536 x 24bpp over VGA. Why the god damn effing f**k have we not managed to do that with LCDs?

      And there is part of the way forward, the other part is to get SSDs down to a price similar to spinning rust.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 3 years? Pah!

        Whenever I scope out a machine that has "the slows", invariably the user is using less than 1/4th the hard drive capacity so the economics still work out well even without price parity. My most popular upgrade, period.

    2. Ol' Grumpy

      Re: 3 years? Pah!

      "An SSD and reinstall is enough to improve them in most cases"

      Can't agree with this enough!

    3. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: "old fashioned and shit to begin"

      Exactly, a better screen would be an obvious and on-going benefit to every end user in a way that a few seconds boot time saving would not!

      In particular of the software monkeys could properly fix display scaling so older folk and/or those with eyesight problems could easily adjust display size to suit.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "old fashioned and shit to begin"

        In particular of the software monkeys could properly fix display scaling so older folk and/or those with eyesight problems could easily adjust display size to suit.

        The only OS I run (or ran) I couldn't scale up the display - ha bleedin' ha - is Windows 10 ! Every other Windows version or Linux distro I've run for years now I've been able to do so very satisfactorily, but on Windows 10, no matter the build, no matter new display drivers and monitor drivers, anything above default looks absolute shite!

        Not that I care. I'll never run it again anyway.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "old fashioned and shit to begin"

          Wotcha then, downvoter! Coochie coo! Who's a clever boy then? Yes you are! Yes you are!

          Same time tomorrow?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 3 years? Pah!

      "Ive got clients still rocking Core 2 machines. Q6600s mainly. An SSD and reinstall is enough to improve them in most cases."

      I have 2 128GB Samsung 850 pro SSDs sitting under my desk waiting for me to do exactly this. But, I'm running Linux, so it's fast enough that I haven't bothered with the upgrade. Windows is the cause of your slowness, a bloated registry and all the other accumulated shite.

      Down votes welcome. Just because you know it's true, don't let that stop you.

    5. Mikel

      Re: 3 years? Pah!

      4K monitors can be had cheap. They moved them to the TV section though for some reason.

  8. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. DJSpuddyLizard

      Bassackwards

      When people move to a new operating system they almost always do so on new hardware

      Maybe they mean "When people buy a new PC, it often has a different version of Windows than they're used to, and have to learn how to use that." or

      "Most users don't know how to install the operating system they like when they buy a new PC"

      1. WatAWorld

        Re: Bassackwards

        But they do pick the computer along with the OS.

        They could choose Linux or Mac OS. They choose not to choose it.

        So retailers choose not to offer much Linux.

        Retailers do offer Mac OS, but people don't choose it, usually due to the very high purchase price.

        1. Richard Plinston

          Re: Bassackwards

          > They could choose Linux or Mac OS. They choose not to choose it.

          > So retailers choose not to offer much Linux.

          In general OEMs and retailers do not offer Linux*, not because they think that it wouldn't sell, but because Microsoft controls the OEMs. If they do not do MS's willing they they could lose their 'loyalty discounts' which would cost them millions. They have to make a choice: all Windows or no Windows.

          The average consumer then only has a choice of Windows or Apple.

          * there are a small number available if you search hard for them.

          1. Asterix the Gaul

            Re: Bassackwards

            "In general OEMs and retailers do not offer Linux*.

            That is WRONG.

            OEM's are NOT just branded systems tied through pre-installed O.S's.

            They are individuals like myself who think outside of the box,by assembling their own system & installing any open source O.S that suits them.

            An SSD with faster & increased capacity RAM allow any system to be much,much faster.

            Coupled with any Linux distro, the above negates any reason to buy into a market that thinks ONLY of controlling the end user with negligible improvements(or reverses)in pertformance & satisfaction.

            For myself,it will take a paradigm shift in hardware evolution & power performance before I think about spending more money on a new desktop system.

            1. Richard Plinston

              Re: Bassackwards

              >> "In general OEMs and retailers do not offer Linux*.

              > They are individuals like myself who think outside of the box,by assembling their own system & installing any open source O.S that suits them.

              In what way do you rate as being an OEM and/or Retailer ?

              I have been building systems for myself and my clients for the last 30 years, but that hasn't made them available to the general public to pick.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Bassackwards

          "They could choose Linux or Mac OS. They choose not to choose it.

          So retailers choose not to offer much Linux."

          Did you notice the comment title?

        3. Roo
          Windows

          Re: Bassackwards

          "Retailers do offer Mac OS, but people don't choose it, usually due to the very high purchase price."

          I doubt many retailers offer "Mac OS", they will offer OS/X though which is actually just 15% the price of Windows - based on the list prices given by the vendors websites (OS/X = £14.99 vs Windows 10 Home = £99).

          Your assertion doesn't fit the facts. Try finding another reason.

          1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

            Re: Bassackwards

            It wasn't my assertion, but do you honestly think that OS X "costs" £14.99? That's a service fee for getting the physical media - Apple's licence terms make sure that you can only use that disc if you've already given them money for a computer. OS X is bundled with their hardware, you can't buy it separately the way you can Windows or a professionally-supported Linux distro.

            Also, the OS X disc you mention is OS X 10.8, a release that's no longer officially supported by Apple (let's not get into Apple's "love 'em and leave 'em" attitude to OS X lifecycle management). You need to install that, then update to 10.9 and then -- if you're a masochist --- 10.10 and 10.11.

            Getting back to the article topic, though: the biggest problem for the PC business can be seen by comparing the Minimum System Requirements for Windows 10 with those for Windows 7, way back in 2009... I'll save you the search: They're identical. That's six and a half years and two-and-a-half OS releases later, and there's no need to buy new hardware at any of them. (I put that down to Microsoft becoming a Windows Hardware OEM itself, and having to directly experience the pain of getting Windows 10 to run acceptably on the kind of low-power CPUs it used in Surface)

            As an OS X user, I can't say the same applies to Apple. Not by a long way. 10.6 and 10.9 might compare favourably, but you'd have had to stomach the horrendous 10.7 and 10.8 to get between them, and things have gone seriously downhill again after 10.9 - not just in performance, but in basic quality. I could put up with OS X being "sedate and unhurried" in its performance, but not when it combines that with the sort of flakiness I used to associate with Windows (and don't start me on what they did to "Save As..."). I've skipped 10.10 and 10.11, and don't hold out much hope of 10.12 being better.

            1. Roo
              Windows

              Re: Bassackwards

              "It wasn't my assertion,"

              Maybe you should have put quotes around it then.

              "but do you honestly think that OS X "costs" £14.99?"

              Yes I do, that's the price on the website, it's under the "products" section, the updates are free according to the same website. You could take a look at Apple's website and see for yourself if you don't believe me.

              "OS X is bundled with their hardware, you can't buy it separately the way you can Windows or a professionally-supported Linux distro."

              You can buy it separately, it's no different to Windows or Linux.

              OTOH your arguments hold water if you substitute "Windows RT" for "OS X". :)

              1. Richard Plinston

                Re: Bassackwards

                > You can buy it separately, it's no different to Windows or Linux.

                You are confused. It is quite different from Windows or Linux. OS/X only runs on Apple hardware. You cannot buy a new OS/X licence without buying an Apple computer.

                If you buy an Apple computer then included in the price is a licence for OS/X of some particular version. Updates to that version are free. Upgrades to the next version may, or may not, have an additional cost.

                """If your iMac has 10.5.8, then you have Mac OS X Leopard. The .8 in 10.5.8 means there have been 8 updates applied to the base 10.5.0 version. Mac OS X Snow Leopard is version 10.6 which you do not currently own, but can be purchased for $29 from any Apple Store."""

                1. Roo
                  Windows

                  Re: Bassackwards

                  "You are confused. It is quite different from Windows or Linux. OS/X only runs on Apple hardware."

                  There are definitely non-Apple boxes out there running OS/X - whether you & Apple like it or not, supported or otherwise.

                  "You cannot buy a new OS/X licence without buying an Apple computer."

                  You can buy as many as you like at £14.99 a pop from Apple, the license may only be *valid* if running on Apple hardware, but folks running hackintoshes clearly don't give a stuff about that.

                  1. Richard Plinston

                    Re: Bassackwards

                    >> "You cannot buy a new OS/X licence without buying an Apple computer."

                    > You can buy as many as you like at £14.99 a pop from Apple,

                    No, you can only buy an upgrade to an existing licence that you bought when you purchased the Apple computer you will run it on. It is not a new licence.

              2. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

                Re: Bassackwards

                ""It wasn't my assertion,"

                Maybe you should have put quotes around it then."

                No, you misunderstood what I wrote. I am not the person who wrote the post containing that assertion. Thus, "it wasn't my assertion".

                You're still confused about the difference between the price of media and the software licence. You do not own OS software - the producer simply grants you a licence to use it. (Linux people stop sniggering - you also don't "own" your software; if you did, you'd be able to resell it under whatever licence terms you wanted). In this case, the producer is Apple, and the terms of the licence are on that panel that you clicked through without reading. Here, have a look at it now: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/OSX1010.pdf

                The licence states several times that you are only permitted to use it on "Apple branded hardware". If you run OS X on a non-Apple product, you are in violation of the licensing terms, and have no right to use the software. It doesn't matter that you've paid Apple money, you are still in breach of the terms of the licence, and if Apple ever found a way to make such an OS X system stop working, they would be entirely within their legal rights to deploy it.

                You can buy it separately, it's no different to Windows or Linux.

                Okay. Here are the two fundamental differences that you're missing:

                1. You can buy Windows or Linux licences and use them on any hardware of your choice - if you get it to install on a system, the licence permits you to use it on that hardware. But: You cannot buy an OSX licence and use it on any hardware of your choice. Only installation onto Apple-branded hardware is permitted. OS X is legally tied to Apple hardware only.

                2. You can buy or build a bare PC system, and then decide what OS you want to run on it. But: every single hardware model that Apple permits you to install OSX onto is already shipped from the factory with that software pre-installed, and so the cost of developing OSX is included in the device price. OS X is bundled, without choice, onto every device that is allowed to run it.

  9. Chika

    To be honest, I've found that the whole three year cycle thing has increasingly been all about the OS and had little to do with the hardware which, if you know how to handle it, will keep going for a damn sight longer than three years.

    And that pleases the beancounters.

  10. Mikel

    There has been a dearth of PC innovation, 'tis true

    And more Windows again is not the cure. It is the disease. Intel seems determined to go down with the ship. OK, fine. Samsung has the new shiny. For my last desktop ever - a SteamOS games PC - I believe I'll be going with an AMD server class build.

    1. WatAWorld

      Re: There has been a dearth of PC innovation, 'tis true

      Intel chips run a variety of OSs.

      It is consumers' choices, OEMs' choices, retailer's choices, that so many Intel chips run Windows.

      Expecting Intel to sell your favorite OS option for you is as silly as a hardware company expecting Microsoft to sell its hardware.

      If Linus Torvalds isn't doing a good job of fronting and selling Linux, replace him. Make him VP of technology or something.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: There has been a dearth of PC innovation, 'tis true

        Guess you missed it. Microsoft is selling somebody's hardware unless the built their own factories; it just has their nameplate on it. (I seem to recall that other people's hardware is sold in their "stores" as well but haven't been near one in forever)

    2. Charles 9

      Re: There has been a dearth of PC innovation, 'tis true

      Until SteamOS Linux can do the headliners like Fallout 4, it's pretty much Windows or bust for gamers.

  11. jnemesh

    Unless we get "incremental updates...

    Unless we get "incremental updates that rid Windows of the spyware, "Metro" interface, and the other NUMEROUS problems with Windows 10, I will stick with my Android devices and Linux. I am DONE with MS and their bullshit!

    1. Jess

      Re: Unless we get "incremental updates...

      > "Metro" interface

      What Metro interface?

      (I don't have a touch screen system so is that why I'm not encountering it?)

      1. WatAWorld

        Re: Unless we get "incremental updates...

        Exactly. Windows 10 on desktops comes up with the desktop by default.

        On desktops you have to dig inside the settings to turn the Metro interface on.

        As you've seen, Windows 10 looks exactly like Windows 7 for regular users, even technical users. The only noticeable differences are what the Start button brings up (icon-like tiles instead of actual icons) and the selection of themes is still quite limited (only 2-D -- too plain and too white on a large screen).

  12. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    People are excited???

    He estimated people are “excited” about Windows 10, released in July, a fact that will drive PCs sales and therefore mean business as usual.

    If he thinks people are excited by Windows 10, then I suggest that he is a blithering idiot.

    Either that, or he knows damned well that Windows 10 is in danger of having the same effect on sales as Windows 8 had, but has to hype it up to his audience - meaning that he thinks we are the blithering idiots.

    All this new hardware seems potentially exciting, but if the price of admission to this new world is acceptance of Windows 10, then I think I'll stick with the mundane, if it's all the same.

    1. inmypjs Silver badge

      Re: People are excited???

      "If he thinks people are excited by Windows 10, then I suggest"

      Aww come on it was only a 'estimate' and in reality people were excited - just most of them not in a good way.

    2. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

      Re: People are excited???

      Being just excited does not suffice.

      To qualify as a W10 evangelist, one has to be super excited.

      Microsoft develops new 'Super' language

      theregister.co.uk/2005/08/04/microsoft_nicely/

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: People are excited???

        Oh you superinfluencer you ;)

  13. Ken Hagan Gold badge
    Facepalm

    "The thrust is very much the business user, with Intel citing one Gartner analyst claiming the chips make PCs part of businesses’ "overall security solution" with users "more secure and productive than ever"."

    It must be really annoying to be a Gartner analyst who isn't a fucking moron. The chip just executes instructions. Security comes from the software you run on the chip. The last time the hardware actually made a qualitative difference to security was back in the 1980s when Intel moved away from real-mode. Even then, it took Microsloth half a decade to produce an operating system that actually exploited the new feature properly, and then another full decade to make that OS the standard version of Windows.

    1. dajames

      The chip just executes instructions. Security comes from the software you run on the chip.

      Well, yes, but Intel are changing the game a little in the Skylake CPUs with their SGX feature.

      See, for example: this virusbtn.com article

      SGX really does offer the possibility of more rigorously enforced security (and, incidentally, DRM), but also of AV-resistant malware. I'm not sure I'll be welcoming it to any motherboards around here!

  14. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Red Herring

    Microsoft hasn’t exactly helped by giving Windows 10 away for free to download

    We keep reading this without any numbers to back it up, Windows 10 is free because Microsoft is desperate to be able to drop support for legacy IE and the nightmares of ActiveX. It's free because Windows 8 annoyed people even more than Vista did (and that took some work) and it's free because Microsoft knows that people aren't going to buy new hardware just to run it.

    Meanwhile Android and IOS continue to eat more and more of the shrinking IT budget. And Intel still isn't get much of that pie (sorry for the mixed metaphor). Hint for Intel: license ARM and release machines that will happily run x86 and ARM code in whichever way the user wants.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Red Herring

      I'd hazard a guess that having everyone on Windows 10 will drastically reduce their support costs which will likely counter most of the lost revenue from Windows upgrades. That's one major reason I'd get out and push everyone onto it were I running Microsoft.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Red Herring

      "drop support for legacy IE and the nightmares of ActiveX"

      Which is part of the problem for users with business-critical soft ware tied to those features.

  15. MT Field
    Windows

    Fundamentally the Wintel PC is a business machine. That's where its heritage lies and that's where it will return to spend a slow and uneventful retirement, followed by a protracted death.

    Will we miss it? Who gives a f---

    As long as have some means of updating the firmware in my camera and the maps in my GPS.

  16. Wommit

    Not too long ago my company changed from desktops to VMs. Now we have a tiny box on our desks that just boot up a VM, and BIG servers to run all of the VMs. So, I guess we won't be changing the desk units for seven to ten years. If a unit starts playing up, it is just replaced. It doesn't have any storage to need transferring, or special settings either. Replace and boot up a new image.

    The servers will be replaced more regularly, but they are only a small number of machines, and given loads of TLC.

    The OS? Well if the system architects can persuade the bean counters that a change will be cost effective (not very likely) then we'll change the VM image.

    So, I don't think we'll be in line for a hefty spend on new kit soon.

    1. WatAWorld

      The mainframe returns.

      You know the original VM operating system was an IBM operating system that ran on mainframes. Each user had their own virtual mainframe.

      1. P. Lee

        >The mainframe returns.

        Perhaps if Intel gave us some mainframe features there might be enough incentive to junk our old chips and buy new ones.

        They won't though, because mainframes last years without a refresh. There will be a slow drip feed of improvements to try to maximise sales churn. I think people no longer care. PC (as opposed to server) speed is irrelevant to most people and battery life is down more to the screen, battery and OS than CPU.

        Let's hope AMD pulls some decent innovation out of the bag to push things forward.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not too long ago my company changed from desktops to VMs. Now we have a tiny box on our desks that just boot up a VM, and BIG servers to run all of the VMs.

      We used to do that. Then Oracle canned the Sunray systems.

    3. Chika

      It's all about cost cutting in that side of things. In years gone by, the cost was all centralised in the purchase of minicomputers or mainframes which provided a service to dumb terminals which were comparatively cheap to buy and run.

      Microsoft and Intel buggered that all up by decentralising to PCs and only now seem to realise it without taking into account that even by trying to recentralise, the desktop machine is often powerful enough to keep right on going for many years more than they want. That was the idea behind such things as Citrix after all - use something that is just powerful enough to run a terminal session on another system.

      So if you have a PoS machine on your desk that can run a session on a powerful server, why bother buying new computers? It gets worse too, because the people behind such systems have been busy developing clients on a lot of different OS platforms. I've had Apples (MacOS and iOS), Linux (including Android) and multiple Windows versions running sessions and I can recall even RISC OS running sessions in the past (though I think that's no longer possible now).

      It all comes back to the simple questions I always ask when somebody asks me about buying a computer. What are you going to use it for? What are you using at the moment? Does it do what you need? What's your budget?

      That's all stuff you can normally answer before you even get to manufacturer hype.

  17. Mage Silver badge
    Flame

    Innovation?

    People want usability, stability, reliability and same or lower costs. Not 'innovation" of itself. Instead we have a version of windows that isn't what is wanted (people just want an updated XP) and stupid ill thought out Intel security.

    Battery life? Well, nice, but if you really care as a user you might be taking a spare pack... Oh I forgot, to make some of these machines stupidly skinny so no optical drive can be fitted the battery is glued in.

    Unless life is 10 hours with Screen lit and disks whirring, do people care if it's 3 hrs or 4hrs? On a decent size and resolution 15" to 17" screen a lot of power is the screen.

    Honestly I don't see much "Innovation" on laptops giving me a much better one than I bought in 2002. I don't care for a skinny one with only USB ports and ethernet if lucky, shiny instead of matte screen, no optical drive and 17" wide to get 1080 vertical resolution instead of the 1200 vertical resolution on a 4:3 15" screen.

    There are some high end "retina" resolution models, but you need 17" rather than 15" because 16:9 instead of 4:3. I only watch video on a TV. I use a laptop to create stuff.

    1. Roo
      Windows

      Re: Innovation?

      I'd love Panasonic to remake the CF-Y7 with all the warts removed. Stuff like a bigger better trackpad that's a sensible aspect ratio & size, fan-less and screws that don't fall out would be nice. Doesn't need a blazing quick CPU, just something that runs cool, has usable 3D, can be dropped / rinsed out, oh and a *bright* display panel, same resolution and triple the battery life will be fine. :)

    2. WatAWorld

      Re: Innovation?

      The lowest cost hardware solution is usually to keep the old hardware.

      That doesn't help hardware vendors sell hardware products.

    3. Chika

      Re: Innovation?

      "Innovation" has simply become a buzz word. It's just a replacement for the "Wow factor" that was bandied about not too long ago. A lot of these companies wouldn't know real innovation if it bit them in the bum!

      They are all just desperate to shift units to unsuspecting droolies.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "[...] plus the PC starts to wear out and break frequently, [...]"

    Possibly if you buy something that has been engineered to a low price. Dell laptops for domestic users seem to break physically within a couple of years. Their business ones are a lot more rugged.

    The things that usually go on my users' desktop PCs are fans - and they are usually cheap to change as I avoid anything that isn't a generic form factor. The self-contained water cooled heatsinks' pumps are a weak point in that philosophy - but they have given good service so far. At worst the virgin original cpu heatsinks can be used - and the cpu will just run a little hotter

    I would be tempted by a new cpu that can run my essential cpu-intense single-thread application a lot faster. Currently on an I7-870 - so something that would cut that run to a third of the time would be nice. However it has to do that on W7 - no way am I moving to W10. I'll re-engineer the application for Linux Mint if it becomes necessary.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Two and a half times the performance of a v5 laptop, three times the battery life...

    "Two and a half times the performance of a v5 laptop, three times the battery life, and four times faster wake up"

    up to

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Two and a half times the performance of a v5 laptop, three times the battery life...

      SSHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......................

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Two and a half times the performance of a v5 laptop, three times the battery life...

      2 1/2 times faster in a benchmark that uses whatever new AVX instructions it adds that no one needs, no doubt.

      Intel is unhappy that the PC market is cratering, and hopes that lies and hyperbole will get people to upgrade. Honestly, a 10 year old PC is totally fine today if you make sure it has enough RAM and replace the hard drive with a SSD.

  20. WatAWorld

    Laziness of sales and marketing VPs

    It is not Microsoft's job to sell other companies' computers.

    As far as not supporting old operating systems on new computers, Apple has always had that police and nobody complained.

    If hardware makers don't like MS, they can always use Linux or create their own OS (like Apple and Google did).

    It is just laziness on the parts of VPs of sales and VPs of marketing at hardware vendors. They aren't getting results selling their products, so they've turned to selling CEOs and shareholders on their lame excuses.

    Companies wanting to run old operating system version for decades to come? They can do what SCADA companies have always done, which is to buy still produced and still widely available older CPUs and chipsets.

    One thing I will agree with, MS has been far too aggressive in pushing Windows 10. The nag screens and upgrade prompts should appear not more than once a week. Instead I've seen them appearing almost daily on some computers.

    I made the step from Windows 7 to 10 on my home computer and it has been great. No issues, other than the currently available screens are too plain and flat. It is fast too. And the optimizations they're still making so it will run on phones are making it run even faster.

    Windows 10 is terrific and I urge everyone to upgrade their personal 'at home' computers to it asap.

    But yeah, MS should not be so aggressively pushing Windows 10.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Laziness of sales and marketing VPs

      "Windows 10 is terrific and I urge everyone to upgrade their personal 'at home' computers to it asap."

      Why would I want to do that?

      My Linux OS runs pretty well anything I need, proprietary or open source. Of the few Windows applications I need most will run in Wine. The exception will run in W7 or W2K in a VM and given Microsoft's aggressive pushing of monitoring by upgrades it will be the latter in future.

      I see no reason in moving to a make-work OS that I'm going to have to actively police to make sure it doesn't leak information to its maker any time said maker pushes a non-optional upgrade that might change the privacy settings - and that has T&Cs that allow them to grab any login credentials and transaction data when want.

      And when my particular version of Unix-like flavour of Linux goes out of support then rather than downgrade to something more Windows-like I'll simply go to a proper Unix variant.

  21. 27escape

    Lock based on bluetooth proximity

    Surely thats not a feature? This is in the realm of additional software to add to your system, not a feature of a the laptop itself.

    Blueproximity works well on all my linux systems already

  22. Yoru

    The real headline

    Microsoft makes strong case for migrating to Linux.

  23. Lorin Thwaits

    Purely ridiculous if Intel isn't actually up-in-arms about Microsoft's strong-arm tactics. They would see Skylake sales skyrocket if Windows 7 was more easily available. Imagine a business model where you get the garbage Windows 10 for free, but for an extra £100 there's an upgrade to Windows 7. It would sell well.

    The upside of all this madness is that Linux and Apple users can benefit from the faster chips, even if Microsoft doesn't want to allow their best OS to be able to play along.

  24. smartroad

    I just want Linux to get a good graphics stack to rival DX, then game devs to support it and then be Windows free. Playing PC games is the only thing that keeps me using Windows.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like