back to article Launch embiggens Galileo satnav fleet

Europe is now two satellites closer to firing up its Galileo satnav system following the launch today of Galileos 11 and 12. The pair blasted off from the European Spaceport in Kourou, French Guiana, atop a Soyuz rocket at 11:51 GMT. While the Russian lifter hoisted the satellites into low orbit, the final task of getting …

  1. Known Hero

    reg media player

    Fyi, the volume slider gets detected as a clickjacking attempt. firefox 42.0

  2. ColonelClaw

    For some reason 1 metre of accuracy doesn't sound that great to me. Or maybe I'm over-estimating how good GPS technology should be in 2015?

    1. rh587

      The standard accuracy of GPS was 15m and is now "better than 3.5m".

      So the Galileo public signal is good or better. The encrypted signal for commercial users is down to 1cm.

      Also, they claim the constellation design gives better precision at higher latitudes than GPS or GLONASS, so even if you're only getting down to 1m on the public signal, you should be able to get that level more consistently in more places.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        It depends what you're doing with it, but your map probably isn't accurate to 1m.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Remember this is the base accuracy before you start using ground based correction. So you can get 1m at high latitudes if you don't have a phone signal.

        If you have a local RTK base station you can get cm resolution with either system

    2. captain veg Silver badge

      GPS accuracy

      Few weeks ago I was queueing in my bank when a voice commanded from my backpack "observe speed limit". I'd left the sat nav app running on my phone.

      Since I was standing pretty much stock still at the time, the local speed limits must be quite draconian.

      -A.

  3. ad47uk

    So we can be spied on by the E.U as well as the Americans, oh what fun. so glad GPS is turned off on my phone.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      So you've got a phone that transmits incessantly and is easily tracked, but you switch off the passive GPS receiver because you're afraid of being spied on? Jeez, the state of the education system nowadays...

    2. Terry Cloth

      Turning off GPS is reasonable

      because it ups the ante for determining where you are. The cell towers can coordinate to specify your (much-less accurate) location, but the bad guys need to have an in with the mobile provider to get the info. BUT, if your phones knows your position to a meter or three, it can well be broadcasting the info to the world from any app that's registered for GPS access.* Shortsighted downvoters.

      --------------

      * Assuming the OS really limits access as advertised.

      1. ad47uk

        Re: Turning off GPS is reasonable

        100% correct.

        Only joking by the way, GPS is switched off to save battery and the fact is I do not really need it as I know where I am.

  4. &rew
    Pint

    Thoughts

    I don't know about anyone else, but personally, I think human beings are capable of some pretty amazing things when we work together. We can throw a massive and massively accurate clock into orbit around our planet using a controlled explosion not just once, but a dozen times.

    Yet some folk complain that a £5 device that fits in their pocket (I'm talking about the chip and antenna, not a whole location/navigation/routing device) might tell them they are one step away from where they actually are.

    Anyway, cheers, science.

    1. herman

      Re: Thoughts

      Well, if you want to land a small plane and it hits the concrete 1 m sooner than expected, then it can cause a bump and a VIP may spill his coffee in his lap. If you want to send a small bomb into the bedroom window of O'l Slobodan, then it may hit the wall instead.

  5. -tim

    Who is in charge?

    If the Chinese can hack Cisco routers before they get delivered, Did the Russians hack the Galileo before it went into to orbit?

    1. JaitcH
      Happy

      Re: Who is in charge?

      There are restrictions on where Galileo satellites can go on the ground which is why they using French Guyana as a launch site even though using Russian rockets.

    2. phuzz Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Who is in charge?

      Well, you can read the operations manual for Soyuz, and from the look of it, while there is data interfaces between the rocket and the payload, it should be relatively easy to secure.

      Physical security of the payload before launch would be the important part.

  6. Little Mouse

    the loss of one satellite should have no discernible effect on the user

    Well, that depends on where it lands...

  7. JaitcH
    Happy

    The US military has announced that if ...

    Galileo doesn't comply / match the US GPS system crippling regimes, such as over a war zone - which might be the whole world - they will destroy Galileo satellites.

    Meanwhile we have the Russian GLONASS system - currently GLONASS-K - GLONASS compatible GPS receivers can acquire satellites up to 20% faster than devices that rely on US-GPS alone. It is less accurate than the US-GPS system but now covers the world. GLONASS has better performance in dense urban areas.

    Many smartphones sold in the Far East are Glonass ready. GARMIN has dual system receivers (see their web site) but activating GLONASS may require changing the Satellite System setting to GPS+GLONASS from the Setup System menu.

    The standard-precision GLONASS signal offers horizontal positioning accuracy within 5–10 metres, vertical positioning within 15 metres (49 ft), a velocity vector measuring within 10 centimetres per second (3.9 in/s), and timing within 200 ns, all based on measurements from four first-generation satellites simultaneously - the minimum required by receivers.

    The Chinese Beidou system - whose name translates as "Big Dipper" - the system is able to pinpoint locations to within 33 feet (10 m). The US' GPS system currently relies on 24 satellites, China aims to have 35 in the constellation by 2020.

    1. John Sager

      Re: The US military has announced that if ...

      My phone (Nexus 5, Snapdragon 800 SoC) will pick up both GPS and GLONASS sats, but I've only ever seen it use two GLONASS in the solution. I don't think the Snapdragon 800 will do Galileo, though I think the 810 will. Has anyone ever seen a Galileo in the sat list that some of the satnav phone apps have?

    2. Adam 52 Silver badge

      Re: The US military has announced that if ...

      There are lots of things the US military don't like. Destroying such a public, expensive and widely owned asset belonging to your best friends is unlikely to be a sensible move. Just need to hope that there's a sensible commander in chief.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

        Re: The US military has announced that if ...

        "Just need to hope that there's a sensible commander in chief"

        Uh-oh...

    3. Astro Fruit

      Re: The US military has announced that if ...

      Apparently (according to the apple website) all iPhones support GLONASS.

      I seem to recall that this was something to do with getting tax breaks in Russia....

      1. Ogi

        Re: The US military has announced that if ...

        Yes, Russia provided tax breaks to devices that supported their own technology (logic being, that any loss from tax revenue is offset by increased licensing revenue of the technology, plus its widespread adoption).

        A lot of the location chip designers added it, because having two networks decreases the time to get a fix. I am sure when the EU and Chinese networks become functional, they will add those as well (although ideally you want an odd number, so you can quorum, in case one superpower decides to turn off or diddle the location output).

        Essentially it is cheaper for them to make one chip that supports all the networks than to make a 4 custom chips for each network, and it is better for the end user, who can now use multiple networks to get a better/faster fix.

        As a result almost all modern phones support GPS+Glonass, in fact a lot of mobiles use it without actually mentioning it (it just gets lumped into "GPS", or "Location" terms). I know my (relatively ancient) note 2 supports both, so I am sure all new phones do as well.

    4. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: The US military has announced that if ...

      Galileo does have a war zone jamming system agreed with the US.

      What it does is allow aircraft to land, ships to dock and road traffic to be charged if a future US administration decided to reduce GPS coverage over Europe as part of a future disagreement with cheese eating surrender monkeys.

  8. Martin Budden Silver badge
    Boffin

    There is a pretty cool condensation ring around the upper stage at about 1:47 in the video.

  9. DocJames
    Paris Hilton

    Thanks El Reg!

    I wouldn't have understood the article without that artist's impression. It really added to the words...

    Paris, cos her meaning is understood without words

  10. Richard Lloyd

    Embiggens....groan

    Embiggens? A made-up word from a Simpsons episode not in any standard dictionary. It's annoying when someone uses this fictional word when "enlarges" is not only actually in a dictionary, but also it's shorter!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Embiggens....groan

      Well I for one am glad they have biggered the language in this way.

      1. herman

        Re: Embiggens....groan

        Verbing of nouns weirds the language.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Embiggens....groan

          "Verbing of nouns weirds the language."

          If you can noun a verb (gerund) why not the reverse? If the new word works OK and enough people use it then off we go.

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