back to article Your browser history, IP addresses, online purchases etc all up for grabs without a warrant

Following a decade-long legal battle, the details of a US national security letter (NSL) sent to ISP owner Nicholas Merrill can finally be revealed. The broad details have been known for some time, and a recent court decision all but listed the personal information that Merrill was told to hand over on all of his ISPs' …

  1. Youngone Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    The Rules

    The rules don't really apply to those who enforce them.

    Things like NSL's and even the secret courts the NSA et al use are probably illegal given the written constitution the US has, but who has the money to combat their own government until the end?

    1. Crazy Operations Guy

      Re: The Rules

      Yep, amendments 4 and 6 to The Constitution, a bit of the 5th as well. The Supreme Court theoretically has the ability to disband and overturn all the decisions of the Secret Court, but they'd need someone to bring such a case to them first (Which is monumentally hard to do since a single denied appeal at any previous level kills that chance, and given that the records are sealed, it is nearly impossible to prove that the secret courts are, in fact, violating the constitution, so no grounds for appeal in the first place)

      1. asdf

        Re: The Rules

        >nearly impossible to prove that the secret courts are, in fact, violating the constitution, so no grounds for appeal in the first place

        Orwell would facepalm and be like I warned you fsckers.

  2. Your alien overlord - fear me

    Why oh why do government departments never speak to each other? The NSA had all that and more that they could have let the FBI see back then.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      NIH - Not Intercepted Here syndrome

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You know, since the FBI, CIA and the Justice Department are all part of the Executive Branch, why doesn't President Obama just put a stop to all this with a single Executive Order?

  3. ashdav
    Thumb Down

    "Land Of the Free"

    I don't think so.

    (not just in this instance but generally).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Land Of the Free"

      Once you realize America is a paradise without any equal for the one percenters and a culture built from the ground up solely for this purpose then the propaganda makes more sense.

    2. Terry Cloth
      FAIL

      & Won't Be Until...

      ...we become the ``Home of the Brave''. So long as a majority of us (see recent polls) are scared of what ISIS could do to us, we're just the home of the weak-kneed.

      [And we still suffer something like 30k deaths in traffic each year.]

      1. David Roberts
        Unhappy

        Re: & Won't Be Until...

        How do the 30k traffic deaths compare to firearms related fatalities (let's include deliberate explosive fatalities as well)?

        Just adding to the point that in system deaths are generally far more common than those due to terrorist activity. Just far less politically newsworthy.

        1. Chris 244

          Re: Fatalities as per the CDC 2013

          Firearm Homicides: 11 208 (all homicides 16 121)

          Firearm Suicides: 21 175 (all suicides 41 149)

          Firearm Accidental Discharge Deaths: 505

          Firearm Discharge Death, Undetermined Intent: 281

          All Firearms Deaths: 33 636

          Unintentional Falls Deaths: 30 208

          Unintentional Poisoning Deaths: 38 851

          All Injury Deaths: 192 945

          http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

          http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

          So sorry for the sentence spacing but El Reg comments set a paragraph break after every hard return. Anyone know how to do a soft return here?

          1. Vic

            Re: Fatalities as per the CDC 2013

            So sorry for the sentence spacing but El Reg comments set a paragraph break after every hard return. Anyone know how to do a soft return here?

            The best I've found is to do a bulleted list, and make sure there are no breaks between any of the items. It's not great, but there you go...

            Vic.

      2. martinusher Silver badge

        Re: & Won't Be Until...

        A cartoon in today's paper (LA Times) pretty much summed up the problem with Paris style attacks in the US. The character in the cartoon is checking the calendar on his mobile phone and realizes that there aren't any available slots left for mass shootings, they're all taken by homegrown nutters.

  4. John Geek
    Facepalm

    an ISP wouldn't have any reason to have collected any of that data... web history? um, its just packets on their network, the only place there's any history is on my browser. IP's of everyone I've communicated with? ok, they probably have email server logs IF I used their email servers, but that just shows the destination MX server address, not the end user. and my eCommerce? that was all SSL, at most they saw I access Amazon etc quite a lot but they have no visibility as to what I did there.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: an ISP wouldn't have any reason to have collected any of that data...

      Interesting to read the list of data demands in the context of the UK's Investigatory

      Powers Bill that is currently before Parliament and it's Internet Connnection Records (ICRs)...

      What seems to be missing from the UK bill is consideration of the ISP customer relationship data...

  5. asdf

    long live Tails

    >Your browser history, IP addresses, online purchases all up for grabs without a warrant

    All the more reason to run the Tails OS iso in a VM without persistent storage for web browsing (can run in seamless mode with VirtualBox on all the major OS for free). Guess unless you only carry cash or buy prepaid cards they can still get your purchase info pretty easily but at least not from your ISP.

  6. Inachu

    A gag order only works if you are willing to submit.

    To those who do not submit are truly free.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      except

      >To those who do not submit are truly free.

      Maybe metaphorically but hard to feel that way locked in a cage with your cell mate's dick in your mouth. You don't get to go to club Fed in general for pissing off the security apparatus as Mr. Snowden would attest to.

    2. Gene Cash Silver badge

      > To those who do not submit are truly free.

      Maybe, but 11 years of lawyer's fees has gotta sting... I salute the guy for seeing this all the way through to the end as honestly I wouldn't have the balls, money, or sheer determination, myself.

  7. a_yank_lurker

    I shall refrain

    The antics of our feral overlords invite comparison with assorted slimy organizations of the last 100 years. You can pick your "favorite" for comparison. Hears knocks on door.....

    1. dogged

      Re: I shall refrain

      At least it's not the Germans this time because the Stasi and and Gestapo leap pretty immediately to mind.

      Or SAVAK, if you wanted to find something American-funded.

    2. PaulFrederick

      Re: I shall refrain

      What's funny is that you think they're going to knock.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Does anyone really believe the NSA has stopped sleuthing phone records?

    1. fishman

      "Does anyone really believe the NSA has stopped sleuthing phone records?"

      Yes - I believe they have the Brits, Germans, and French do it for them.

  9. PaulFrederick

    If the FBI wants to be bored

    If the FBI wants to be incredibly bored they can examine my browser history, IP addresses, online purchases etc. Even I would not be particularly interested in seeing any of that. It is my history too!

    1. Yugguy

      Re: If the FBI wants to be bored

      Indeed - if they followed me they'd be extremely bored.

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      1. Yugguy

        Re: If the FBI wants to be bored

        Stupid votedown. My comment is the truth. I said NOTHING about the debate as to wether the FBI SHOULD be able to read it, just that if they did they'd be terminally bored.

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