back to article Russian nuke plant operator to build on-site data centre

Russia's sole nuclear power plant operator, Rosenergoatom, has reportedly hit on the idea of building a data centre next to one of its power plants. Telecom Daily reports that that the Kalinin nuclear power plant will gain a ten-thousand-rack, 80-megawatt data centre as a near neighbour. Co-locating power sources and data …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Mushroom

    So?

    There are data centers collocated with nuclear power plants across the US. Given the choice between coal destroying the planet now and carbon free nuclear producing irradiated waste that generations will have to worry about, I'll choose the one that makes having generations more likely.

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: So?

      Today's nuclear waste is tomorrow's nuclear fuel.

    2. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: So?

      "carbon free nuclear producing irradiated waste that generations will have to worry about,"

      About as much to fill an olympic sized swimming pool for fuel to last the operational life of a civil 1400MW plant.

      Which if left onsite, is cold enough to handle safely in less than 300 years (not 200,000) and at that point mostly consists of U238 and high grade plutonium which is usable fuel for a new plant.

      On the other hand the coal plant is spewing carcinogenic shit into the air and almost all the increase in oceanic mercury in the last 200 years is attributable to burning coal. That's quite apart from the radioactives that go out the chimney when burning coal (embedded in the fuel) which worldwide add up to the equivalent of several chernobyls every year - except that because you can't see it, you don't care about it.

      Of course, if you smoke, then it doesn't matter anyway - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRL7o2kPqw0

      radioactivity isn't particularly carcinogenic, else they wouldn't be using radiation as a cancer treatment. It's good at killing cells and not so hot at causing them to mutate. Chemicals are far better at that game. Problems with radiation exposure occur when the death rate of cells is higher than they can be replaced and that takes a LOT of exposure.

      Most radioactives-derived cancers are caused by mutatgenic effects of the breakdown elements, not the radioactivity itself. In the case of smokers, that's lead, bismuth and mercury compounds sitting in your lungs after the Polonium has been fizzing for a while - all known carcinogens.

      So, contrary to what you "know", the fuel which is safer for future generations is nuclear, even with todays badly flawed designs - which although "badly flawed"(*) are still several tens of thousands of times safer than coal burning plants in terms of deaths/injuries per TWh produced.

      (*) The flaw is taking a steam plant designed for 6MW in a nuclear sub and scaling it up to 600-1400MW. Boiling water is a pretty good solvent, hard to contain and becomes explosive (splits into H2+O2) if heated to maximum nuclear reaction temperatures (~1200C - past that the reaction is self-limiting due to doppler effects), so having it in direct contact with nuclear fuel is a bad idea, as is relying on circulation systems to keep it cool instead of using a coolant that can safely handle those temperatures in the first place.

      1. druck Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: So?

        Having worked for a short time many years ago as a CEGB test engineer in both a coal and nuclear power stations in the UK, I know which one I preferred.

        The Magnox nuclear plant was extremely well managed, maintained, and spotless - from the generator hall to the reactor floor it looked like your mother dusted it regularly. The focus on safety from plant operations to health physics couldn't be more intense.

        Then there was the coal fired station, you can't have solid floors anywhere because of the carcinogenic coal dust which got everywhere would collapse the buildings, so you could look down at your feet at the top of the cooling block right down through all the grid floors to the basement 300ft below - very disconcerting at 3am. When I finished a 36 hour shift testing the boiler tubes and went to the wash room, I spun around in surprise to see what looked like a coal miner in the mirror - it turned out it was me, I had never been that filthy in my life.

  2. LaeMing
    Boffin

    I would assume (hope, anyway)

    that the Power Plant was built somewhere relatively free of geological/weather/etc. risk too.

  3. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Can't see why nuclear power is a danger for a data center

    Once the plant is built, I can't see that there be any emotional attachment to building a data center next to it. Once a power plant is plugged into the grid, the electricity it produces is not stamped with "Nuclear" on it. It goes into the grid, period.

    So a data canter will be powered by some measure of nuclear electricity whether it is situated next to the nuclear plant or on the other side of the country.

    Let's not encourage running like headless chickens whenever the mere notion of nuclear power is mentioned somewhere.

    1. JeffUK

      Re: Can't see why nuclear power is a danger for a data center

      Presumably it helps provide some measure of guaranteed base load for the reactor. For cloud processing, you could even offer discounted cycles based on excess power generation (Amazon have a 'run X when it's cheap' option.)

  4. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    Should have good physical security.

  5. Adrian Harvey
    Go

    Whole new level

    It takes it to a whole new level when the assessors ask you whether your datacentre meets tier specifications and want to know that it has a generator on site....

    1. JeffUK

      Re: Whole new level

      But there's only one nuclear power plant on site....

      1. Tom 38
        Headmaster

        Re: Whole new level

        Actually, there are 4 x 950 MW units, because you need to do maintenance every now and again and no-one likes power cuts.

  6. Adrian Harvey
    Boffin

    power plants and Datcentres

    We thought about this when I worked for a power generator - but all of out plants got built in relatively out-of-the-way locations - either to make use of natural resources or because no one wants a great hulking power plant on their doorstep. It was hard enough for /us/ to get networking to our sites, diverse paths almost impossible (second cable would have to go over a mountain for one example [we used microwave for out backup path...] ) so just too hard to get the connectivity required for a real datacentre.

  7. Ken 16 Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    What's the problem?

    Lots of power, opportunity to share cooling, good security, educated operators...

  8. Andytug
    Mushroom

    Takes "storing your data in the cloud" to a whole new level...

    ......hopefully not, obv.

  9. Alan Brown Silver badge

    Cooling near power plants...

    Is never an issue.

    In fact you don't even need mechanical heat pumps. Look up ammonia/water cooling systems (solarfrost.com)

    A good power plant design sells electricity, cooling and waste heat, not just electricity. Many of them do.

    (Battersea waste heat used to run the district heatling system. A suitable power plant in London could do this again.)

  10. Slx

    Yup because no other data centre anywhere in the world uses nuclear power... Riiiight!

    Many (most) of us are using nuclear power right now. You could well be charging your phone with it.

    Nuclear carries risks that need to be mitigated but it's relatively clean when done right. However of all the handful of accidents it's Fukushima that has left me with doubts about the sector. It's in Japan, one of the highest tech countries on earth l, yet it's location and it's design were clearly very poor given the quake and tsunami risks it was exposed to.

    That wasn't something inherently wrong with the technology, but where it was located and how it was implemented.

    Chernobyl was simply a flawed design. The soviets wanted dual purpose reactors that could run to generate plutonium and came up with a very cumbersome water cooled, graphite moderated setup that had an ability to go horribly wrong in those specific circumstances. It's far from fail safe as a design. There's a second soviet era design which is purely a power generation and it's pretty solid and safe in comparison.

    You can't design out absolutely every risk, but should certainly be aiming to.

    1. John H Woods Silver badge

      "it's Fukushima that has left me with doubts about the sector." -- Six?

      Why? It had a radioactivity death toll of zero despite a huge natural disaster that killed 20,000. It should be known as the Fukushima Nuclear Success.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  11. Sgt_Oddball

    it's not the first.

    I seem to recall being told by a physics student at Leeds uni that they've got a test reactor in the basement hooked in as a generator for a small datacentre and keeping the cooling working in a power cut (think big magnets that go boom if warmed up too quickly and you get the idea). It greatly amused me to think I lived a couple of miles away from the a nuclear reactor.

  12. MyffyW Silver badge

    I really don't have a problem with this.

    Whilst not actually piping electricity directly from a nuke plant to your home, EDF Blue do promise to buy an equivalent quantity of nuclear generated leccy for every KWh you consume.

    I speak as a pro-nuclear happy customer.

  13. Jeff Wojciechowski

    Eh?

    Google maps lists that place as

    "Работа КАЭС

    Place of Worship"

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