back to article Apple's design 'drives up support costs, makes gadgets harder to use'

Apple's design has fallen from the high standards set by Donald Norman and Bruce Tognazzini, reckon... er, Donald Norman and Bruce Tognazzini. The two UX gurus and former Apple alumni now think "Apple is giving design a bad name". Nothing new, you might think. But because Apple is now so influential, poor design from Cupertino …

  1. Dave Clarke 5

    So it's not just me then...

    I find most Apple stuff frustratingly unintuitive to use.

    1. Efros

      Re: So it's not just me then...

      I find their GUI's (iOS and OS X) so frustrating to use I actually wonder if it's a left brain right brain thing. Everyone and their father seems to prefer them to Windows/Android type GUIs, but I don't get it.

      1. getHandle

        Re: So it's not just me then...

        First time I encountered a macbook was in an interview for a programming exercise. Coding was no problem but I think I blew it when I looked up and asked where the buttons for the track pad were...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So it's not just me then...

        "Everyone and their father seems to prefer them to Windows/Android type GUIs, but I don't get it."

        I confess I don't.

        The iOS interface drives me wild; why do I seem to have to press a physical home button to go back? I gather there are swipe gestures but they aren't exactly signalled.

        But then I sighed with relief when my 1 button mouse was replaced with a three button mouse.

    2. Cynical Observer

      Re: So it's not just me then...

      Thought I'd do SWMBO a favour and rip a couple of DVDs to her iPad. Easy enough you would think - until you try to put them on without using iTunes!

      Apple decided to sandbox the application data - so while I could FTP them on, I couldn't see them from the chosen player app.

      The screams that accompanied the headache - for the most counter intuitive interface/system that it has been my misfortune to work with.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: So it's not just me then...

        That's not a design flaw. That's done deliberately. Frustrating but sandboxing is deliberate. There's too many ladders to climb over the fences nowadays IMHO.

        1. Cynical Observer
          Flame

          Re: So it's not just me then...

          @TRT, & Steve Todd

          It is a design flaw - it's her device, her data, her choices on how data should be handled. We are not talking about one app messing up the running files of another. We are talking about the data - the consumer information. Their's to own and use/screw up as they see fit.

          Oh Just use iTunes... Why? It's not my iPad - why should I have to use a bloated piece of software from Apple just to transfer files and make them usable, If I have successfully got the files on board - as I did with ftp then I should be able to use them as I see fit.

          This all goes back to working with customers/consumers to see how they try to use the device - and making design choices accordingly.

          SUSE did this with Linux years ago something in excess of 10000 hours of usability studies across different generations and abilities. And at that time there was a step improvement in the interface and the usability - but it's an iterative process - study how people use it, make changes, stick with some aspects for well documented and considered reasons. Rinse and repeat. Redhat have done similarly.

          I just don't understand why it is that consumers have to accept the "We will tell you the only way to use it, You're holding it wrong!" approach from manufacturers.

          Ah well - back to my mixed bag of MS/Linux/Android for the rest of the day...

          1. TRT Silver badge

            Re: So it's not just me then...

            "Thought I'd do SWMBO a favour and rip a couple of DVDs to her iPad."

            Possibly an illegal format shift, depending on the content owner.

            "Unable to view with the chosen player app"

            Does that player app have a means of getting the files onto the machine? Does it include an FTP client? If it doesn't, why are you raging at Apple instead of at the player app author?

            Sandboxing App storage is a good idea. All requests for other data are mediated by the iOS and have to follow strict request protocols instead of just being a free for all file system. It's containers with ladders from the ground up by design, not a set of holes over an open arena.

            1. Cynical Observer
              Boffin

              Re: So it's not just me then...

              @TRT

              Possibly an illegal format shift, depending on the content owner.

              Right - let's start at the beginning. Format shifting is a matter of law not content owners preferences. For example, US copyright law embodies a concept of fair use which is believed by many lawyers to encompass format shifting. The matter is not fully settled - so this may change in the future.

              In the Netherlands, citizens are allowed to make copies of their legally bought audio and video.

              In Spain, provided that you retain the original media, you can make a copy for private use.

              Similarly in Australia and New Zealand, copies can be made for personal use.

              The UK government tried to introduce a provision for format shifting - but as per standard operating procedure, they screwed it up. Specifically, they did not provide any compensation mechanism for the content owners (e.g. such as a tax on MP3 players) and were adjudged to have unfairly deprived the content holders of their property rights without compensation.

              That the format shifting card was played at all points to the overall weakness of the position being defended - we are talking technology not law.

              So - for the purposes of this discussion, the DVDs are of home video, previously recorded on a Sony camera and transferred to DVD .

              Back to the tech issue.

              The player that I settled on does have a transfer mechanism built into it. So, the files are on the iPad and can be played. However, if in two months time a new wizzy player emerges and becomes the favoured player of choice then these two 'king huge files cannot be played by that new wizzy player. They are as useful as a dead parrot - you know

              "'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!

              'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!

              'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!

              'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!

              As it stands, there would appear to be no way to make them accessible to the new wizzy player without loading them though the new player - that that is just plain daft.

              It may be argued that it is "Safer" but my contention remains - usability studies are an essential part of design - and based on said studies, the design should evolve - evolve to accommodate new paradigms of working and evolve to fix decisions that might no longer stand the test of time.

              Even if they were only to offer the option of "I think I know what I'm doing and I understand the risks - but let me pretend to be an adult and try something!" with 14 layers of "Are you Sure?" "Are you really really really sure?"

              Anyway - at this stage it's now a philosophical argument - the experience has dissuaded me from ever spending my money on an iPad.

      2. Steve Todd

        Re: So it's not just me then...

        Erm, that's nothing to do with the GUI, it's a function of the security model. If you'd bothered to use iTunes then you'd have found that the task was a piece of p*ss - drag and drop the file onto iTunes, select it for synching to your i device, job done.

  2. Harry the Bastard

    with apologies to douglas adams

    ‘it’s the wild colour scheme that freaks me out,’ saidzaphod, whose love affair with the ship had lasted almost three minutes into the flight. 'every time you try and operate these weird white controls that are labeled in white on a white background, a little white light lights up in white to let you know you’ve done it.’

  3. Paul Crawford Silver badge

    Good points

    Tell it like it is!

    I often wondered why the GUI muppets at Gnome, Firefox, Google, MS, etc, all seem to go down the same route of removing functionality and discoverability. They need a course in GUI design which consists of taking the odd granny/granddad or two off the street and giving them a simple task to do on the device. If they can't work it out in under 2 minutes the designers get beaten with rubber hoses until the elderly folk succeed.

    A couple of lessons and I am sure designs would be so much more usable...

    1. big_D Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Good points

      Have a beer, sir!

      1. Message From A Self-Destructing Turnip
        Gimp

        Re: Good points

        I bagsy being hose meister!

    2. Dazed and Confused

      Re: Good points

      As I keep telling students "If you need lessons on using a GUI then there is something fundamentally wrong and who ever wrote the GUI needs lessons on writing them"

      The whole point is that they should be intuitive.

      Now everyone writing them seems to think that the whole point of a GUI is to out weird the other guys writing them.

      1. Old Handle

        Re: Good points

        Unfortunately, I think designers are hearing "intuitive" and interpreting that as a mandate to hide everything that could possibly be confusing. To a very limited extent this works, if you're only interested in using a program for the very most basic task it was designed for, one of these interfaces where everything is hidden might well be less daunting to a less technically inclined user. But the second the user wants to do anything more, like format text in a word processor or attach a file to email they're going to be even more lost .

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Good points

      Er Ummm we used to do that a long time ago. It was very instructive and did influence how our GUI's worked.

      MS clearly didn't do any of this with METRO and those idiotic 'charms'. I am sure that the MS fanbois will hate this idea but they (MS) made an interface that was a huge retrograde step backwards when in a non touch environment.

      1. John 104

        Re: Good points

        I'm an MS fan and I think the 8 interface was horrible and one of the most stupid industry decisions made. Ever. And it was a costly one too. Giving away 10 to fix it is a multi-billion dollar fix.

        I suspect politics more than user input led to that disaster.

        As for Apple. Yes, one of my biggest complaints about that OS since X came out was that it was impossibly un-intuitive. I still battle with portions of it when I am unfortunate enough to have to use it.

        1. Eddy Ito
          Flame

          Re: Good points

          Gah! There's that word being used, yet again, to mean something else entirely. Invariably when someone says intuitive they usually mean "simple", "discoverable" or "familiar". Unfortunately when some bright spark says that a UI should be intuitive (meaning discoverable) another understands it as intuitive (meaning simple) and we're stuck in the bovine feces of UIs that are impossible to be quickly productive with. The sooner the word intuitive banished from the land of computing the quicker we can get back to a better UI.

        2. Daniel von Asmuth
          Gimp

          Good design

          I'm a fan that makes funny noises as it turns. The design of the MacIntosh (hard- and software) was impossibly un-intuitive and drove up costs, whereas the PC and its OS were an example of functional, cost-effective design and easy to use. The down side was that it was a good fit for the requirements of 1980, not those of 1990.

    4. druck Silver badge

      Re: Good points

      Paul Crawford wrote:

      I often wondered why the GUI muppets at Gnome, Firefox, Google, MS, etc, all seem to go down the same route of removing functionality and discoverability.
      It seems only those working on Mint Mate/Cinnamon still have their heads screwed on and are interested in designing a usable GUI, rather than a bloody fashion statement.

    5. JEDIDIAH
      Mushroom

      Re: Good points

      Idiots think that it's a good idea to just copy Apple. It doesn't even matter if they've actually bothered to use what they are trying to copy.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Good points

      I'll forgive the granddad insult as long as I get a rubber hose.

      Any GUI that forces you to RTFM is crap, no matter how pretty. Or white. Or material.

    7. Sil

      Re: Good points

      As an aside, the Web has been an excuse for most companies to go 20 years backward and present us with terribly designed web pages and native applications.

      Just look at YouTube, and how terrible it is to do anything else than the most basics use. Try to go backwards when using infinite scrolling, try to change language or country, try to scroll through the long list of videos of a channel. And it's just one of many examples, WordPress which I dearly love is pure s.ht GUI wise, and I hate Microsoft becoming enamored with the hamburger.

      For all their faults, Microsoft's WP7 & Windows 8 had some brilliant design ideas, such as the use of type in the GUI, that are mostly gone in Window 10 and MS new apps.

  4. TRT Silver badge

    Hm...

    I'm not sure I'd agree with the priority differences between OSX and iOS for 2015. Is this from Apple, or just a guess at their priorities from what they've done?

    But I agree with them that Apple did lead the change in User Interfacing, are still leading the field, and have dropped the ball. Not being able to burn a disk image in Disc Utility now?! Come on!!!

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  5. nematoad
    Unhappy

    You are using it wrong.

    Form follows function.

    Or in Apple's case function follows form.

    It must be good, it's all so expensive.

  6. John Bailey

    Pop coornnnn..

    Getcha popcorn here..

  7. Kirstian K
    Thumb Down

    But

    Where I generally get and to some extent agree with what your saying,

    why is it, a 3 year old can pick up a ipad etc and just run with it, if its so hard to use?

    and why is it there are more seniors and non computer users that ever in history using these devices?

    statistics kinda go against everything you say here.

    That being said, labels which your not sure if you can press or not is bloody annoying!

    but watching a 3 year old pressing the TV screen and wondering why it wont change is funny,

    so swings and roundabouts.

    1. Cynical Observer

      Re: But

      Because Apple treat their users as simpletons?

      I don't know! But I wish someone would explain!

      For example - why did they deliver a system without an obvious back button? This goes to the heart of the article/observations by the old designers. Why is it so difficult to reverse out of something.

      Like so many others, I make mistakes, pick the wrong option, change my mind - but there's not a simple back out.

      Or I want to share data between apps - a process that would seem intuitive to almost any user of computer type equipment for the last however many decades. But Apple decided that that model was too risky and sandboxed the data - breaking the basic principles of usability.

    2. Shady

      Re: But

      "why is it, a 3 year old can pick up a ipad etc and just run with it, if its so hard to use?"

      A 3 year old can fire a gun - but they can't shoot straight, reload or defend their playpen with it.

      Also, a 3 year old mind is a lot more plastic than a 73, 53 or even a 33 year old mind.

      Besides which, the typical use-case of a 3 yo with an ipad is probably a lot less complex than a Tomy toy for the same age range. For example:

      Smear jam across the screen (Slide to unlock).

      Jammy fingerprint upper left screen (Click Youtube)

      Spittle / Jammy fingerprint right hand side (PewDiePew / Cbeebies / Whatever channel)

      Bang screen repeatedly with ball of fist (Play video)

      If you want to change settings, do anything substantial, it's a lot less easy.

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: But

      Watching a toddler picking up the TV remote, talking to it, then throwing it across the room because it didn't talk back is funny. (To a toddler a remote is very similar to a phone). But the same toddler knew that if you pushed the blackbox (ie. video cassette) into the slot under the TV, Maisy Mouse would automatically appear on the screen rather than the rubbish the parents were watching...

      Watching my children grow has taught me much about human-technology interaction and interface design... and we have definitely taken many backward steps in recent years...

    4. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: But

      Because the 3 year old I know has observed the adults using their ipad.

      Me, I'm in a different city with no one that uses Apple products, so using my new iPad has been a nightmare. One night I accidentally double clicked the home button and discovered a new mode. Trying to get a PDF off my Linux box into iBooks for something to read at lunch is like dragging my sac through broken glass. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, and I don't do anything different so I have no idea what the problem is. No error messages. Nothing. It's just not there.

      I'll certainly never buy another Apple product.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: But

        "Trying to get a PDF off my Linux box into iBooks for something to read at lunch is like dragging my sac through broken glass."

        Look, if you you're too fucking stupid to search with Google, then maybe you balls deserve that kind of treatment.

        Dropbox/OneDrive/Google Drive is what you are looking for. You can easily transfer from Dropbox to iBooks, or Adobe Reader, or just read it in Dropbox!

        'mazing.

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Mushroom

          Re: But

          If you "need to search for documentation", then you might as well be using VMS.

          The WHOLE POINT of modern UI design is supposed to be that you don't have to do that. That was kind of a key thesis of the article we're discussing right now.

          1. banalyzer

            Re: But

            How dare you diss VMS, mixed with DCL was a wonderfully easy system to use, and only 20 encyclopedic manual required.

            1. Daniel von Asmuth
              Windows

              Re: But

              There was a time when the world was a simpler place and the documentation for VMS would fit into a pair of cabinets. Makes you wonder how big the complete documentation for Windows 10 / 2016 would be in printed form.

            2. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

              Re: But

              "and only 20 encyclopedic manual required."

              referred to as 'The Grey Wall' in our Ops room. I think there were more than 20 tbh. We had the whole lot on microfiche too. Remember microfiche? Our microfiche reader was on top of the filing cabinet opposite the hard copy console.

          2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: But

            If you "need to search for documentation", then you might as well be using VMS.

            The WHOLE POINT of modern UI design is supposed to be that you don't have to do that. That was kind of a key thesis of the article we're discussing right now.

            No, it really wasn't. At least not for anyone with any actual understanding of user interaction design.

            While Norman definitely advocates, as a rule of thumb, that a well-designed product is one where recourse to documentation should rarely be required, he most certainly isn't opposed to documentation. Let's see. How about this quote:

            The technical writing profession is an essential component of any design, just as important as designers, interaction and usability specialists, and engineers.

            Indeed, a lack of good documentation is a huge UI / UIX / UIM error. Particularly with complex software, many user goals cannot be satisfied by discoverable controls - there are too many permutations of plausible user requirements, so the control scheme would fail due to combinatorial explosion, if for no other reason.

        2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Thumb Down

          Re: But

          "Dropbox/OneDrive/Google Drive is what you are looking for. You can easily transfer from Dropbox to iBooks, or Adobe Reader, or just read it in Dropbox!"

          So you are suggesting that the best way to get data from a computer on the desk to the iPad in your hand is to send it half way around the world via a 3rd party because Apple don't do the decades old already solved problem? Yeah, highly intuitive.

          1. SImon Hobson Bronze badge

            Re: But

            > ... the best way to get data from a computer on the desk to the iPad in your hand is to send it half way around the world via a 3rd party because Apple don't do the decades old already solved problem?

            It's even worse than that. In OS X 10.9 they removed a feature that allowed exactly that "computer on desk direct to phone in hand" transfer - even for their own products. Yup, people upgrading to 10.9 suddenly found that they couldn't plug their iPhone in with the USB cable and have it sync. Why ? Because to Apple this is too old fashioned and the only way a user should be allowed to do it is via Apple's cloud service.

            The outcry was loud enough that even Apple couldn't ignore it - and they re-instated Sync Services, but only enough to support Apple devices.

            As an Android phone user, the fact that they destroyed the ability to sync music, photos, calendar, contacts, notes, call logs, and a few others (Missing Sync was an awesome tool) is probably just the icing on the cake for Apple.

            I can't help thinking that if 70s/80s Steve Jobs had seen what 00s Steve Jobs did to Apple and "the user experience" he'd have been horrified. His early work was all about making computers for people to use as they wanted, his later work was all about making computers for people to use as Apple want - and these days what Apple seem to want is a 30% cut of everything.

          2. Roland6 Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: But

            "So you are suggesting that the best way to get data from a computer on the desk to the iPad in your hand is to send it half way around the world via a 3rd party"

            It seems you're beginning to understood what "cloud" is all about, just change "half way around the world" to "several times around the world using protocols not optimised for bulk data transfer" and I think you've got it.

        3. mIRCat

          Re: But

          "Look, if you you're too fucking stupid to search with Google, then maybe you balls deserve that kind of treatment.

          Dropbox/OneDrive/Google Drive is what you are looking for." - Anon

          https://xkcd.com/949/

          Sure that wouldn't make it more difficult than it needs to be. I mean the Internet makes everything easier. Even transferring files between local devices. Twenty years on and I still email myself files.

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: But

        Trying to get a PDF off my Linux box into iBooks for something to read at lunch is like dragging my sac through broken glass.

        Way back about the only reliable way to get stuff between Unix boxes was via uucp. I suppose that experience has stayed with me, so at the basic level to get a (PDF) file between your Linux box and your (vanilla) iPad the simplest approach would be to send yourself an email with an attachment...

        The other approach you can explore is to upload files to your iCloud Drive via a Linux web browser.

      3. Frank Bough

        Re: But

        Yep, emailing a PDF and then hitting 'open in iBooks' is a real brain teaser.

      4. <shakes head>

        Re: But

        just email it to yourself

    5. AJ MacLeod

      Re: But

      "why is it, a 3 year old can pick up a ipad etc and just run with it, if its so hard to use?"

      Partly because 3 year olds are fantastically competent at figuring out experimentally how things work, and...

      "why is it there are more seniors and non computer users that ever in history using these devices?"

      Because an iPad, as purchased, is a very limited system with relatively few functions - all of which can eventually be found by pressing one of a limited number of buttons on the screen. In any case, I've seen many non-computer users try an iPad for the first time and they generally don't find it easy at all to begin with. They are also less daunted by the form factor of the machine, compared to sitting down at a proper keyboard and screen alongside a possibly noisy and "dangerous" looking high-tech box with lights on it.

      1. no-one in particular

        Re: But

        > "why is it, a 3 year old can pick up a ipad etc and just run with it, if its so hard to use?"

        > Partly because 3 year olds are fantastically competent at figuring out experimentally how things work, and...

        and they have all the time in world to spend on it, plus it is all play and any response is a good one.

    6. druck Silver badge

      Re: But

      If you look at the apps for a 3 year old, they are brightly coloured, have big obvious buttons and lots of visual and audio feedback. They straightforward and intuitive for all ages, and a damn sight better than the grey on grey adult orientated apps.

    7. Vector

      Re: But

      "why is it, a 3 year old can pick up a ipad etc and just run with it, if its so hard to use?"

      Not that I can verify this, but based on my long experience with technology, I suspect that 3 year old would be able to "run" with an Android device just as easily. This is primarily because children of that age have no expectations about how something should work. It simply works the way it does.

  8. lsces

    "The mouse is dead; it's time for a change,"

    It's taking a long time to die ... but does ANYBODY find the much more restrictive touch interface a better alternative to the clean control a mouse provides? Reworking websites which had nice mouse-over menus to run on tablets and mobile phones is most certainly not an 'improvement' :(

    1. CADmonkey

      Re: "The mouse is dead; it's time for a change,"

      Mouse users on the Netflix site should be given an epilepsy warning.

  9. Mage Silver badge
    Boffin

    hardware designer Jony Ive?

    News to me.

    Isn't he an Industrial / Style designer, like his hero Dieter Rams, whom he copies slavishly (hence the white minimalist like late 1950s & early 1960s Braun "snow white" radio gram, radio, transistor set and calculators).

    I think we'd be better off if Jony designed electric toothbrushes, electric shavers and vibrators. He's not good on GUIs and his case designs are simply copies of Dieter Rams' Braun stuff.

    1. kmac499

      Re: hardware designer Jony Ive?

      "I think we'd be better off if Jony designed electric toothbrushes, electric shavers and vibrators. He's not good on GUIs and his case designs are simply copies of Dieter Rams' Braun stuff."

      With 'ahem' a suitably designed ergonomic handle; and a couple of replacable heads; one device could do it all.

      1. eldakka
        Happy

        Re: hardware designer Jony Ive?

        OMG who downvoted that? It's pure gold, hilarious.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: hardware designer Jony Ive?

      That's strange Mage, because Dieter Rams considers Jony Ive to be Product Designer.

      Ive has largely followed Ram's '10 Principles', but that cannot be done slavishly - if you understood them or the work involved in Product Design, you would know that. Shit, even common sense should tell you 'if it were that easy, everybody would be doing it'.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8555503/Dieter-Rams-Apple-has-achieved-something-I-never-did.html

      I know enough about product design to know how little I know. And I have a BSc degree and working experience.

      1. MrDamage Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: hardware designer Jony Ive?

        What has a Bronze Swimming Certificate got to do with product design?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: hardware designer Jony Ive?

      > I think we'd be better off if Jony designed ... and vibrators

      Err, perhaps not. This is one area where thinner is not necessarily better.

      Also the user interface needs to be really simple. If you can concentrate on what buttons to push on the toy you are doing it wrong.

      Actually getting the vibrator right is surprisingly complex. Looks might be important, but they need to deliver the right vibrations at the right point, you need to get the frequency right, and the strength as well as amplitude right. Just being a pretty package with a pink ribbon isn't going to cut the mustard.

      You should see the stick the specialist sites give of the iPhone controlled toys, toys being the right word.

  10. Groaning Ninny

    The last column

    I wonder why the last column in the picture is sorted alphabetically, unlike all the rest. Is it just so that the lines all start crossing over, which might make the viewer think something's wrong?

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: The last column

      No. Read the original piece by the designers.

      http://www.fastcodesign.com/3053406/how-apple-is-giving-design-a-bad-name

  11. Dave 126 Silver badge

    It's a long old read.

    Whilst some of their points are valid ( font size etc ) they do come across as being dogmatic. The first iPhone apps were primarily for accessing information (maps, train times, news etc) and so had no place for an 'Undo' button. The same goes for making purchases on-line, or sending emails or social media posts. 'Undo' isn't applicable.

    Rather than acknowledge this, the pair seemed to have missed the wood for the trees.

    1. Bc1609

      Re: undo

      A bit later in the article they explain that they're using "Undo" as a synonym for the "back" button (more or less), and explain that even in things like train times, news, etc. it's necessary for certain situations (e.g. you accidentally click a link in a news story that opens YouTube, and you want to get back to the news app without having to close everything and start from scratch).

      But, as you say, it's a long old read.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      huh? - facepalm

      Aren't sending emails, posting to social networks and paying for something EXACTLY the sort of functions you need a cancel/undo for .. sorry i just don't get your comment

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: huh? - facepalm

        >Aren't sending emails, posting to social networks and paying for something EXACTLY the sort of functions you need a cancel/undo for ..

        You might well want that, but that would be a function of the service provider, not the OS. And the user would have to understand that their instant messaging system isn't instant, but has a lag of X seconds, suring which time they can 'Undo' their 'send'. Hmmm. Now you have the situation where 'send' now means 'send in a bit'... simple, heh?

        My point was that if the main functions of a device are reading information or sending information, an 'Undo' button is of far less use than it is on a computer used for creating and editing content.

        Now, the idea of conflating an 'Undo' button with a universal 'Back one step' button is not without its merits, but brings its own compromises. It is for reasons like this that UI/UX design is bloody complex, and being dogmatic can be counterproductive.

      2. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: huh? - facepalm

        Cancelling a payment.... that depends upon the law of the land and the terms and conditions of the other party, the banking system used etc. Those sorts of things can't be forced by simply including an 'undo' button in a UI.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: huh? - facepalm

        You seem unfamiliar with the basic functionality of email and ecommerce.

        Neither of these transactions support the concept of "undo".

        In a different world it might be nice if you could "undo" an email being sent, but SMTP doesn't support that.

        In a commercial translation where you buy a digital item online and it is delivered immediately, "undo" would require that the remote system have read/write access to the client system - not exactly a good thing in the current security paradigm.

    3. Cynical Observer
      FAIL

      @Dave 126

      So ....

      Under your logic, the car that will attempt the land speed record won't need a braking parachute.

      The Bluebird of Malcolm Campbell didn't have one - and sod the years of evolution that might actually point to slightly changing priorities.

      If a design ethos of 10 years ago is still be heralded as good enough for today then there is something very wrong. There are times when it does become necessary to embrace change and realise that perhaps some of the new fangled improvements need to be tried.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        >Under your logic, the car that will attempt the land speed record won't need a braking parachute.

        I'm confused- how did you arrive at that?

        My point was only that the UI should follow the function of the device, and that you can't just apply ideas from one system to a new one - otherwise you have WinCE.

        Many people started using 'Undo' in word-processors and the like, and started using 'Back' in browsers, and they did this in WIMP environments. Now, windows (with a small 'w') are a physical metaphor - they reassure the user that whilst they are looking at one piece of paper (window), the others haven't disappeared from their desk. However, we don't use this paradigm on mobile devices - there isn't enough screen real estate. So, other approaches have been used, from Sony's late '90's jog-dial-driven phone UIs, to WebOS's cards, to the ever-changing multitasking in Android.

        Sometime the user will just have to get used to a new paradigm, and attempts to shield the user from it are merely putting of the inevitable. Example: a user of desktop computers comes to Android/iOS and can't find the 'Exit Program' function. Until they grok why there isn't such an option (work is saved automatically, program is closed if memory is tight), it might unsettle them. Even then it might piss them off if the streaming podcast they are listening to needs to restart after a phone call because the OS has decided to close the music player app.

  12. Nixinkome

    And just to remain of one's eye various software blunders and hax are allowed publicity.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Sorry, I tried Google translate and it still didn't make sense.

  13. Mike Bell

    I agree

    The bright young things with their pin-sharp eyesight might be having a wonderful time, but when they get a bit older they will be gnashing their teeth.

    The new music player in iOS is ridiculous. It shows a tiny sliver somewhere on the large screen that indicates the current playback position, like a thin red VU meter needle. Here's a hint: you don't use needles as UI elements that you can drag.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: I agree

      Found myself unable to select a postcode today to cut and paste it into the correct field in the contact card because the select blobs to drag out over the whole code are so tiny that you actually can't pick them without hitting something else. I resorted to using my iPod Touch 3 on iOS6 to do it, which was so much easier!

      Backwards moving.

      I also filed a bug report for iOS 8 that the music player didn't have a play button anymore. Oops, they said, and put one back in iOS 9.

  14. future research

    I agree. I found myself trying to turn on/off features on the android the other day and getting confused whether said feature was actually enable or disabled by looking at it.

  15. Bc1609

    Unintuitive and powerless

    I have never, ever understood why IOS is considered to be "intuitive". I once spent an embarrassingly long time working out how to install an app on my wife's Iphone, not realising that you had to press the word "FREE" to get it to slide aside and reveal another button underneath. Later, I read this wonderful piece by game designer Tom Francis, which expressed the same frustration in a much more amusing way.

  16. Gordon 10
    FAIL

    But it doesnt have to be great

    It just has to be better than the lowest common denominator - which given on Linux its Unity/Gnome/KDE and on Windows its Win 8-10 the bar isn't particularly high.

    Shade of puritanism from some academics perchance? Which ultimately is just as bad as Mr Ive but in a slightly different direction.

  17. Mondo the Magnificent
    IT Angle

    Agreed...

    As a long term OS X user, I cannot disagree with the sentiments.

    IOS and even OS X itself has become bloatier, with added features that are no longer intuitive and beyond RTFM resolution for the average user.

    It's the niggling OS X changes that frustrate me too, but I get by...

    More people are jumping ship to Macs due to the belief that it complements their iPads and iPhones and the learning curve can be quite steep.

    Apple do offer a course for Windows users that provides basic tuition on how to get the Mac to do what their Windows machines can, but it is a basic course. (I have a few friends who have paid for these courses here in France)

    Sadly this tuition doesn't cover the under-skin fundamentals that seasoned OS X users are familiar with and often use.

    That's where Apple Support comes in, when users who are outside of their 12 month support are prepared to pay for a talk through resolution to their OS X support woes - the exception being my friends who tend to call me for help :¬P or those astute enough to dig through forums to seek an answer to their issues.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    former Apple alumni?

    So this means they are working for Apple again

    1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: former Apple alumni?

      It could be interpreted as "alumni of the former Apple", which is arguably correct.

  19. Psymon

    This what I've been saying for years, now.

    Apple have been dragging the entire industry down the wrong road in interface design.

    Microsoft, who are legendary for lacking any form of imagination have been aping their ethos, which has led to the disastrous Win8 UI. It only works well if you already know how to use it. From my many years of working in the IT industry watching users painfully navigate various UIs, there is no uncertainty that this is the wrong approach.

    A good example of this minimalist ethos gone wrong is win8 swipe in from the edge of the screen. It's actually really useful, and quick way to access options and switch between apps, but, guess what?

    There are absolutely no clues, visual or otherwise, to indicate that this is something you can do! I've been using computers since I was 5 years old, and when I got hold of my first Win8 fondle slab, it took about 10 minutes for me to discover that feature.

    If it took me 10 minutes to find it - by accident, then my grandma has no hope at all. Ever. I was overjoyed when touch screens started to become common place, along with powerful 3d graphics capabilities. The UI designer in me knew this was a huge step forward in intuitive design, but then Apple decided to take a huge step backwards, and being flavour of the month, everyone else did, too.

    It was like the emperors new clothes. Microsoft threw away the transparencies in Win7. An idiotic move. Transparencies allowed you to see that there was another window or box behind the one you're looking at - a genuinely useful UI feature on the cluttered desktop of a busy days work. The 3D effect and drop-shadows aren't just there to look pretty and waste resources, they are visual clues to indicate at a glance which window is on top, and which is selected, and they work intuitively, because they mimic visual clues we use in the real world to perform the same visual identifications.

    Then there was the loss of one of the greatest UI helpers of all time. The roll-over. This is more due to the change to touchscreen, but the Apple ethos didn't allow for any means to compensate for its loss.

    I can't emphasize strongly enough how important the roll-over was. If you weren't sure that "thing" on your screen was actionable, you simply moved your mouse pointer over it. If it was, either it, or your mouse pointer would change.

    This was so fundamental to our learning of new UIs, the loss of the roll-over should have prompted the entire industry to frantically come up with new and different visual clues to aid the touch screen user, and initially, we did. But then Apple decided it was too messy, and besides, everyone now knows how to operate touch screens, so let's throw all that junk away.

    And like idiots, the rest of the industry followed.

    Well, here's the thing. The rules haven't changed, because you're still designing for human beings. If it's supposed to be a button, then make it LOOK like a button. You have to give them clues that they're supposed to press it, and that they have pressed it successfully.

    Don't just assume the user already knows how to do it. Right, I'm off to clumsily fumble with a Samsung monitor trying to switch it on. Now, is that power symbol on the front a touch screen style button, or is it to indicate that there's a mechanical power on that edge. Or on the back? And is there a second mechanical switch hidden somewhere I have to turn on before I can...

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: This what I've been saying for years, now.

      Quote

      Apple have been dragging the entire industry down the wrong road in interface design.

      What in your opinion is the right road for interface design?

      Pray tell us. I am sure you could make a lot of Dosh patenting it....

    2. AJ MacLeod

      Re: This what I've been saying for years, now.

      I agreed with most of your comment, but the upvote is for the bit about those stupid monitors - how to make the IT guy look like a bumbling idiot!

    3. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      Re: This what I've been saying for years, now.

      In the original article, Tog and Don actually praise Windows 8 for finding ways to solve the problems with gesture-driven interfaces.

      I'd tend to agree with them (and Windows8 does at least follow your "a button should look like a button" dictate, even if the affordances for certain types of popup menu aren't obvious).

      That said, I wholeheartedly agree with you about how the "stroke-to-reveal" (careful, now!) toolbars are done: that function is simply not discoverable, and it drags the rest of the UI down. Windows 8.1 made some subtle but useful changes to how toolbars work, but the "charms" menu and the app-switching menu are still arcane.

      iOS is my go-to example when I try to explain to people that UI design is not the same as graphic design.

    4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: This what I've been saying for years, now.

      "Don't just assume the user already knows how to do it. "

      Upvoted for everything you said but I'd like to mention icons. They keep changing. Yes, I can recognise a little picture that on rare occasions looks vaguely like the app I want to load or the function I need to use, but just as I get used to it, some designer comes up with some arty farty BS about by completely different design and colour scheme for that icon is "better" than the old one so now I have to spend time looking for it. WTF is wrong with WORDS!!!!!!

      (Yes, I know, some people have reading problems or there are language/translation issues/costs, but pissing off the vast majority of users is not the solution)

      I'm beginning to wonder if UI designers are the rejects from the HR department. You know, the only department that seems to continue growing even when the company is shrinking.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    spreading inexorably .... like a fart in a cinema.

    Most cinemas I go in the UK appear to have particularly well specified HVAC systems, and it's been years since I can recall a real throat-burner being dropped off during a film, and rippling out like a small but invisible mushroom cloud for the enjoyment of one and all.

    It's a bit like white dog tods, one of those happy experiences of yesteryear that the youth of today have never enjoyed.

  21. Ivan Headache

    Too true.

    What I miss most (above all the other things I miss) are scroll bars that indicate at a glance how much of a page I am looking at and simultaneously where I am in relation to the top of said page.

    Some of Apple's recent UI changes are inexplicable.

    1. DubiousMind

      Re: Too true.

      Scroll bars can be turned on permanently in System Preferences->General-> "Show Scroll Bars: ", so there's no need to miss that.

      Whilst it looks clean for them to hide when not scrolling, it is annoying!

  22. Ivan Headache

    Correction

    Most of Apple's recent UI changes are inexplicable.

  23. Halfmad

    OK then Reg.

    "Other anti-user crimes the pair note include low contrast designs with thin illegible fonts,"

    Directly below an image that's so blurry I can barely make out the text.

  24. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    They have a point

    Apple's design has improved from the skewomorphic nightmare of a few years ago but is now much more perfume bottle (the bottle is the product) than a deodorant spray (the spray is the product).

    Not sure about trashing Google for blindly following Apple. I personally think that the Material Design guidelines are far better thought out and presented than the Apple stuff now it. IOS 8/9 is "beautiful", Material Design has, er, rediscovered discoverability.

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: They have a point

      A well put metaphor.

  25. myhandler

    Nothing that wrong with skeuomorphic - they just become symbols you recognise, providing they aren't reinvented all the time. It's design snobbery to sneer at it. (disclaimer: I have a BA in Graphic Design)

    But why the hell does everyone copy iOS style? Every website apes it now.

    Anyone notice how logo animation on tv adverts now copies the motion that Javascript routines do?

    This is all just fashion.. one distant day extravagant rococo decoration might come back in.

  26. The entire Radio 1 playlist commitee

    One word comment, no need for explanatory text

    iTunes

  27. Jagged

    Threaded Conversations

    My personal pet hate is the lack of properly threaded conversations. This was something we sorted out in the early 90s (possibly earlier) but now EVERYTHING seems to be reverting back to a single level of indenting. Even going to the extent of removing "proper threading" in applications where it always existed (Microsoft, I am looking at you!).

    Why FFS? Which idiot decided this was how it has to be? Please let me know so I can find them and break their legs.

    *grumble* *grumble*

    1. Vic

      Re: Threaded Conversations

      but now EVERYTHING seems to be reverting back to a single level of indenting.

      Yeah, thank $deity that these fora do it properly...

      Vic.

      1. Mellipop

        Re: Threaded Conversations

        Hahaha do not get me started on what voting messages up and down have done to continuity in discussion threads.

  28. Jess

    I think Mac reached their nicest with the PowerPC

    I have a couple of G4 laptops. The Snow is far nicer than the design that replaced it. The PowerBook, is virtually the same as Pro that replaced it, but far nicer than the later models.

    I find Leopard nicer to use than the newer OSes, and it looks far nicer (though I think Mountain Lion probably looked best.)

    I think OS X is slowly becoming less pleasant to use.

    On the other hand Windows is improving. I actually rather like the release version of 10. (Wasn't impressed by the earlier versions) I thought 8 was the worst dog's breakfast of a UI I have ever seen. I also liked 95, 2000 and 7. I thought 98 and XP were retrograde steps. (Vista just didn't work properly, as opposed to having a really bad UI)

    1. b0hem1us

      Re: I think Mac reached their nicest with the PowerPC

      Quite true. I skipped the 8 madness from 7 to 10 and had no problems finding anything at all. Never even got lost. They need to work on the L&F consistency though.

  29. Hud Dunlap
    Gimp

    @ El Reg

    Can you come up with a former Apple fanboy icon?

    Ivy, Cook et al have really trashed what used to be a nice easy to use computer.

    1. Mike Perrin

      Re: @ El Reg

      Seconded!!!!

      System 7 for the win, although System 8 wasn't too bad. I've always thought Jobs' return was the beginning of the end for sensible, easy to use Apple computer software. Do you remember whether it was Quark or Photoshop, all the system dialogues looked the same and worked the same way? Compare with Lightroom today!!

      Today I use Linux Mint/Mate. But I still miss System 7 and Susan Kare's icons!

      http://www.kare.com/portfolio/03_apple_macicons.html

      1. myhandler

        Re: @ El Reg

        I'm such an old fart it was system 6 for me - fitted on two floppy disks didn't it..

        I hated OSX so much I went to Windows - been there ever since battling with it but at least I can make it look as I want .. but now dreading the next PC and W10.

    2. JEDIDIAH
      Linux

      Re: @ El Reg

      > Can you come up with a former Apple fanboy icon?

      Something like a cross between a broken heart and the old rainbow apple logo?

  30. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    A long read, but worthwhile

    http://www.fastcodesign.com/3053406/how-apple-is-giving-design-a-bad-name

    Read it the other day (IIRC I found it on boingboing). There is a hint of the pains of unrequited love (and a hint of 'oh, those young people today get it all wrong') in the essay, but they do have a point. And they make it. Apple is on the road for ars gratia artis, and tha'ts not design, baby, it's a slippery slope.

    Oh, and Dieter Rams is a very good designer indeed.

  31. Diogenes

    I feel their pain

    A bog standard supplied ios video player that doesn't do playlists .

    In (default ios) video, books, email and "clock" apps different ways of deleting things .

    Some (default) apps allow zoom, others don't.

    I am using my 10" ipad(gen3 admittedly) less and less, and my 8.4" galaxy tab s more & more as . Another reason , I pop the sdcard out , pop it into my computer and drag & drop files - done, I don't have to wrestle with iTunes (which is also getting less and less usable by the release- I now only use for ITunes U which is a true abomination with the last release) . And the iTunes U app sigh !

  32. Disko
    Facepalm

    ironically

    the fastcodesign website itself uses a greyish anorexic spidery font that makes it quite hard to read.

    My eyes do have almost a century between them, but by comparison I can read the Vulture Central pages just fine. Trying to zoom in on the fastco site makes the ads overlap the content, also the site somehow manages to make it impossible to easily open articles in tabs. Having headlines in the form of (hopefully rhetorical?) questions to external entities by now only ranks half a point above clickbait. So I left. Hipsters gonna hipster I guess.

  33. Fihart

    Sooo right !

    For example, Stalag iTunes.

  34. Lee D Silver badge

    I manage iPads as part of my job. It's the WORST part of the job. Ignoring the fact that Apple don't care about the educational market whatsoever, and they have no decent management tools to speak of (yes, we have full - and very expensive - MDM via a third party but you can only ever do what Apple let you do), their interface ideas are diabolical.

    Most users are absolutely baffled by the "date of birth" entry screen. You're supposed to spin little rollers with your finger to enter your date of birth, and EVERYONE over the age of 20 misses and goes round several times. A dropdown would be more appropriate.

    Then your first-time iPad setup - that's hilarious. Click top-right for next stage. Click middle. Click top-right. Click text at top to say "Enable this option that has no explanation" or click identically-formatted text at bottom to say "Disable this". Next page does the same but with reversed logic.

    Don't want to add a passcode yet? Go through a triple-confirmation after finding the above, with double-negatives and all sorts. Want to agree to terms and conditions? Read 47 pages using back and next in a 2/3rds width window, and then select Agree in yet-another different place. Are you sure? Agree and Disagree in different place again.

    iCloud goes titsup like the other month? Sign into iCloud. Couldn't sign in. Sign into iCloud. Couldn't sign in. Cancel. Sign into iCloud. Ad infinitum. And yet behind it are all the apps and stuff that you want to use, working and responding in between the full-frontal, full-modal queries that have no Yes to All or even just Piss Off option.

    Create new iTunes account and the Wifi isn't working? "There was an error". And back to screen one losing all the steps you've done and stuff you've entered.

    Don't want to put in a credit card the second you buy the device? Good luck. You need to get the option on first sign up on a fresh iPad and hope your IP hasn't seen any more than 5 new iTunes accounts today. There is NO way to get the "no credit card" option back later, no matter what you do. You have to reset the iPad and start again. Official Apple tech support can do nothing for you unless you are in the Enterprise programs and even then their response is extremely limited unless you buy the devices THROUGH Apple (BYOD my backside!).

    Bulk-create iTunes accounts or do without them? Good luck.

    Settings... General is full of random stuff, including things that should be on other parts of Settings which have clear categories.

    I could go on for days. Don't even get me onto DEP, VPP, installing apps as a different iTunes user, etc.

    1. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

      "I manage iPads as part of my job. It's the WORST part of the job."

      Frikking A dude. I did a brief stint in education IT support recently, there were Ipads,.... there was Configurator,... there was the stolen Mac Mini, so then there were orphaned Ipads that had to be wiped and reinstalled individually. 32 of the things. Ugh. There was setting up VPP, which had to use a different email address to iTunes, because, er,...you need to manage more, or something.

      Plus it meant handling items touched by children. I was very thankful the pound shop sell cleaning wipes.

  35. Unicornpiss
    Meh

    Perhaps I am the only one

    ...but to me, Android is very intuitive, and has little gems everywhere like being able to text a contact from a missed phone call, add to contacts from a text, a clipboard that stores history, and an onscreen keyboard that is bliss to use for those of us with big fingers and older eyes, unlike the beautifully rendered horror that is on iPhones. And has had for years while iOS is only now catching up. And also more than one big button to escape/undo/bring up commands, etc.

    Imagine if your car only had one button on the dash and you had to remember the keypress combinations to activate wipers while it's raining while not inadvertently shutting off the engine or putting the car in reverse. And holding down an item on an Android device to receive a "right click" context menu is so intuitive that most everyone figures it out with no training, not so with the arcane swipes and key presses to conjure up functionality from iOS.

    Maybe a 3 year-old child can figure out to push shiny icons to make an iPad work (same as they would on any device with icons), but your toddler doesn't have to pick through pages of fiddly menus to configure the device, nor scratch their head trying to figure out how to get an iPhone to "Trust" a wireless network after you missed the first opportunity to do so.

    1. Fihart

      Re: Perhaps I am the only one

      New to iPhone and only recently to Android. To some extent both make me appreciate Microsoft's traditional tinker-under-the-hood options and relatively straightforward (pre-Win8) user interface, though Android is okay.

      I've found the Apple wrap and integrate approach pretty annoying but sometimes the end justifies the means. Didn't like giving them my email password, but the iPhone's email system works much better than going into webmail via a browser.

      Still can't cope with Stalag iTunes though I've been using it with iPods for years. Simply the worst piece of commercial software I have ever encountered -- and Apple makes it the centrepiece of their system. As stated by others, the issue is the cool, stripped-down, aesthetic -- personally I care more about usability.

      1. Fihart

        Re: Perhaps I am the only one. You're not.

        Addendum to my earlier rant. Just finished transferring three mp3 files to iPhone as ringtones. I say three, but one missing in transit. The process was unbelievably irritating.

        I don't object to converting files to AAC format or even having to change the file extension (not helped by Win7 hiding extensions by default) -- but the struggle with crazed use of nested folders and the opaque nature of the iTunes UI left me shouting.

        Some time ago there was a rare dialogue between Apple and users on just how bloody iTunes is and one gained the impression that they were puzzled but willing to try to sort things out. One can only hope.

        By contrast uploading ringtones to Symbian, Android, Blackberry was simplicity itself, primarily because a USB connection pretty much put one straight into the folders on the phone where tones were stored. Version of Apple's PoS (Paranoid operating System) I have permits only one way USB access (outbound) and from only the picture folders.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Perhaps I am the only one

        yeah but we also have the triangle circle and square on Android.... who ever thought that was a good idea should be placed in a shark infested tank with three buttons of which one will hoist them to safety.

        ■ ○ or ◢

        They will get one press.

        1. Jagged

          Re: Perhaps I am the only one

          "who ever thought that was a good idea should be placed in a shark infested tank with three buttons of which one will hoist them to safety."

          - I vote we adopt this for all UX Designers too.

  36. TWB

    All UI

    I am finding all UI seems to be getting worse on all sorts of devices. I am happy to find my way around stuff and explore, but often older non-technical people are finding TVs, PVRs and similar so difficult to use.

    Trouble is that UIs tend to copy each other as that is what we have got used to, and we are unlikely to change now. It's a bit like cars, clutch, brake and accelerator - complex to use and you have to take your foot of the accelerator to apply the brakes - in that time the car can travel several human widths. Anyway - point I am making is that people get stuck in their ways and good new functional design can be difficult to implement due to inertia to learning new stuff even when it is better.

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