back to article US govt just can't hire enough cyber-Sherlocks

American federal investigators are having a hard time hiring computer-savvy staff, according to a memo from the Inspector General for the US Department of Justice. "Even as it works to expand the ranks of its cybersecurity team, the department continues to face challenges recruiting and retaining highly qualified candidates to …

  1. Mephistro
    Meh

    Ahhhh... the gall!

    Just a few questions for my fellow commentards:

    -Does the DoJ employ other professionals like, say, doctors, engineers, or scientists?

    -If that's the case, does the DoJ also pay them lower-than-market wages?

    -No?

    -Then what's exactly the difference between IT guys and the other professionals?

    Enquiring minds want to know, ...

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: Ahhhh... the gall!

      Has little, I think, to do with wages. Private industry can pay more, but not that much more. There are always people willing to take a government job if the benefits are good even at a lower wage.

      No, I think the bigger issues are around how hard it is to jump through the FBI's hoops to get hired. (It can take years of your life and is absolutely humiliating. It can even require you to renounce relationships with friends/family/lovers and drive them out of your life if they don't meet the given standards.) That, and quite a few folks who do this IT thing are also civil libertarians, so view the FBI as the bad guys. Both of those probably make recruitment hard.

      1. Robert Helpmann??
        FAIL

        Re: Ahhhh... the gall!

        From the linked OIG report, "Among other hiring challenges the audit identified were that the FBI’s background investigations are more onerous than those used by many private sector employers, and it was difficult to retain top talent because private sector entities often pay higher salaries."

        This totally misses the point. It's not that the private sector pays more, it's that by working as a government contractor, one can make more money doing the exact same job for the exact same people. One of the basic ideas with shifting the US government to a contractor-based model was to allow more flexibility in responding to change. Sure, it can cost more, but the government people should not be handling the technical work in such a model. Instead, they should be providing the leadership and oversight and contractors should be doing the actual work.

        For example, a Computer Forensic Examiner's pay grade goes from a GS7 to a GS12 which has the person starting at $33979 and topping out at $78355 (link). Considering that many of these positions will be in the Washington, DC area, there will also be an cost of living adjustment along with that. Still, someone doing the same work as a contractor can make enough from the start to compete with the high end of the GS scale and expect to have plenty of opportunities for growth while at the same time enjoying the job security that only an extreme shortage in one's field can bring about.

        The FBI needs to cut those positions as government slots and contract them out in order to actually be able to fill them (as in actually getting the job done). The only way I can see that these positions will be filled by government employees is to train existing employees after getting them to sign an agreement that they will continue to work for the FBI for a period of several years. This will be a partial solution, at best, leading to a longer time before employees move to contracting, but not slowing the overall rate of attrition.

    2. Mark 85

      Re: Ahhhh... the gall!

      Probably not doctors, engineers, or scientists except for consultation purposes. Lawyers however... they get. Many are driven by maybe expectations of political office at some point or just because they feel it's a good thing. The military doesn't pay a lot but they get a lot of recruits on the "good way to serve your country".

    3. disgruntled yank

      Re: Ahhhh... the gall!

      A few engineers; some scientists in the forensic analysis area, I suppose; doctors, since the Bureau of Prisons comes under DOJ. Boatloads of lawyers. I knew a number of the lawyers, and while they weren't making Wall Street money, they weren't living under bridges, either.

  2. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

    The FBI are just as much the enemy as the people they hunt

    If you're going to work for a band of amoral cyber criminals with no respect for privacy, decency, due process or the rule of law why not work for the amoral cyber criminals that pay more?

    If you wanted to do the right thing in life you sure as shit wouldn't work for Encryption Backdoors McStupid and the Constitution Destroyers. You'd probably work for something like the Boys and Girls clubs and put your time and effort into ensuring they have the quality IT necessary to help real people.

    Well. You. Me. There's some projection here. That's what I'd do if I wanted to do good. You, whomever you are...well...someone elected the nutjobs that appointed these FBI cranks...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you're going to work for a band of amoral cyber criminals with no respect for privacy, decency, due process or the rule of law why not work for the amoral cyber criminals that pay more?

    And that, in a nutshell, is the real problem. When (the management of) the good guys go bad, it gets hard to join up if you want keep your ethics intact. Heck, the trend has even made it into the movies: every single one requires a maverick who bucks the system to get the job done, and that includes James Bond.

    Dear agencies and governments: the only reason to fear transparency is if you have something to hide.

  4. Sir Runcible Spoon
    Meh

    Sir

    Underlying all this could also be the short-sighted approach to education and the lack of encouragement for critical thinking - a key skill in the IT Security realm.

    Not 100% sure it's the same in the US as it is in the UK of course, but it wouldn't surprise me.

    They seem happy that they are churning out millions of products consumers, but then bemoan the lack of well rounded, free thinking, individuals.

    1. Rich 11

      Re: Sir

      They seem happy that they are churning out millions of products consumers, but then bemoan the lack of well rounded, free thinking, individuals.

      But, old bean, isn't that what a private education is supposed to provide? Along with buying the connections to get the good jobs, since the employer will know they're One Of Us.

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon

        Re: Sir

        Private education does indeed do those things, but those people are all being groomed for leadership and control - not technical ability. They are still taught the classics and would make excellent security bods, IF they were technical, but they're not.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Um

    What, noone wants to work for the baddies?

  6. Cuddles

    So who do they have?

    "five of the FBI's regional 56 Cyber Task Force teams don’t have a computer specialist on hand"

    What exactly is "cyber" about a task force that can't handle computers? Surely such a task force would be made up of only computer specialists and no-one else?

    1. Fungus Bob
      Windows

      Re: So who do they have?

      I'm guessing a "DOS For Dummies" book in a bottom desk drawer.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "five of the FBI's regional 56 Cyber Task Force teams don’t have a computer specialist on hand"

    What exactly is "cyber" about a task force that can't handle computers? Surely such a task force would be made up of only computer specialists and no-one else?

    Well spotted, upvote from me.

  8. Sevjer

    I was one of the Government white hatters and offered an early retirement. I would have been foolish to stay. So to see this cracks me up.

    1. Triggerfish

      Well if you are anything like the MOD then you will be hired back at double, whilst still collecting the pension and payoff for leaving early. Don't ask me its a cost saving thing apparently.

  9. Brian Miller

    Public vs private sector wages

    Top pay with FBI, $78K. Expedia, $140K, or more.

    FBI: Washington, DC. Expedia: Bellevue (a bit east of Seattle).

    FBI: Onerous hiring process. Expedia: Good on the interview? Can you start next week? How about this week?

    FBI: Bunch of suits and a bunch of paperwork. Expedia: Did you know they have an alcohol-friendly culture? Why bother with the pub when if it's not on your floor, it's already on someone else's floor?

    Personally, I like doing things like catching crooks. But I don't want to move to the east coast, and take a pay cut and have my living conditions reduced to poverty.

    So OF COURSE they can't get people to help them. There are plenty of people who would do it, and do it well, but the FBI is simply too stuck in their own rut to break out and give some thought to what the potential employees might want.

    1. Dani Eder

      Things haven't changed much

      When I first came out of college, 35 years ago, government engineering jobs paid 25% less than industry. Guess where I went to work? I ended up with Boeing as a government contractor.

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