back to article Microsoft shelves 'suicidal' Android-on-Windows plan

Microsoft has sidelined its plan to allow Windows 10 devices to run Android apps before it could do any serious damage, according to a report. Daniel Rubino at the Windows Central blog gathered some convincing evidence that Microsoft's Project Astoria has been wound down, while the runtime allowing the Android-on-Win10 magic …

  1. phil dude
    Linux

    brilliant headline.

    I'm not sure it matters i they support it.

    But I tried building Android for x86 and is a bit of a dependency hell...

    Perhaps when RedHat/Debian or Ubuntu make it easier on the *Linux* desktop, it might spread to WinN...?

    P.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: brilliant headline.

      Served its purpose, usual Microsoft, sell things on a promise and then never deliver. This is why windows phone and Xbox one tanked so badly and are basically ruined with no way back.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    >"By October the "suicide note" had become Windows mobile's "only saviour", so where that leaves the bipolar Windows fanboy is anyone's guess."

    As dead as a Norwegian Blue, would you like to buy a Microsoft Pet Slug instead ?

  3. Mage Silver badge
    Windows

    Never fear

    Order in popcorn (or other snacks) and beverage of choice.

    I'm quite sure MS will find another way to kill Win Phone.

    Remember Danger / Sidekick.

    Or the fact that in USA MS once dominated smartphones in pre Apple iPhone days.

    1. billdehaan

      Re: Never fear

      I can't say I can ever recall MS "dominating" the US market, unless your definition of the smartphone market is different than mine.

      Yes, WinCE (aka "wince") had a respectable presence, but nothing compared to Nokia and Blackberry.

      1. GitMeMyShootinIrons

        Re: Never fear

        "Yes, WinCE (aka "wince") had a respectable presence, but nothing compared to Nokia and Blackberry."

        Actually, when the early Windows Mobile based phones were launched (2003), Nokia was essentially limited to the Communicator - a great device, but vastly more expensive and not all that more capable. Blackberry made nice phones (everyone liked the keyboards) that did some internet and email, but in those days (to mid 2000s) was purely locked into Blackberry services - a vendor lock in that in many ways proved its undoing later on (Note that the iPhone and Android went down the MS path of native connectivity rather than a proxy solution).

        In terms of the US market, a bit of Googling shows that in 2007 (according to this article - http://bgr.com/2011/12/13/apple-and-google-dominate-smartphone-space-while-other-vendors-scramble/), MS peaked at 42% of the US smartphone market (Compared to RIM at 35%, Symbian at 3% and the new Apple iPhone at 11%). This surprised me, but, of course, MS didn't adapt - This was the Windows Vista period remember. RIM briefly resurged, but the Apple and later Android juggernauts all but gobbled up the market after that. Quite fascinating - if MS had taken the market seriously, they might still be a serious player. A pity really - the market is somewhat lacking in choice these days, particularly at the low/mid end.

  4. peakyblinder

    Have they also sidelined plans to integrate add ons in Edge. Ridiculous that, a few months since release that the browser doesn't have this basic ability yet...

  5. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

    Bah, humbug!

    I was looking forward to being able to get a Windows Phone running my Android apps. I guess I won't be getting a Windows Phone now.

    It can be labelled a "suicide" move either way.

  6. Warm Braw

    Suicide Note

    I fear that "allowing Android binaries to run on on Windows 10 mobile devices" was merely a subclause in an annex to the suicide note and that its deletion does not alter the text substantively.

  7. John Styles

    Surely you're supposed to provide the bait before you do the bait and switch?

  8. naive

    Catch 22 ?.

    So the idea was to make Win10 more popular by adding support for Android apps, but since some wise guy found out that is a bad idea, nothing changes, leaving market share in the 4%-10% range ?.

    1. Richard Plinston

      Re: Catch 22 ?.

      > leaving market share in the 4%-10% range ?.

      Windows Phone is currently in the < 2% range (some say 1.7%) and falling.

      Smartphone OS Shipments Q3 of 2015

      Android . . . . 84.2%

      iOS . . . . . . . 13.5%

      Windows . . . . 1.7%

      Blackberry . . . 0.2%

      Tizen . . . . . . . 0.2%

      Others . . . . . . 0.1%

      Total . . . . . . 354.7M

      Source: TomiAhonen Consulting Analysis 30 Oct 2015, based on manufacturer and industry data

      This table may be freely shared

      1. naive

        Re: Catch 22 ?.

        Thanks for the clear table, the market and the end user would for sure benefit from more competition.

        Everyone not able to put $600,- on the table for an IPhone, is forced to use Android.

        The server market could provide clues if this is a good decision, only IBM z/OS, Windows and Unix survived as mainstream OS.

        Windows is Windows, but z/Os opened up in the late 90's, allowing Linux to run as guests in z/VM on z-Series hardware.

        Other OS from the 80's-90' did not, who remembers: VAX/VMS, OS/400, MPE, OS/2200, OS/3.. etc

        These, and several more died or became marginal, the only ones surviving are those changing with the times.

  9. P.B. Lecavalier
    Go

    Proceed!

    M$ persists in its irrelevance in phone and tablets? No problem with that at all.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    What 'app gap'?

    The so-called 'app gap' only exists in the imagination of teenage scribblers from the fourth estate and/or AAPL fanbois.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: What 'app gap'?

      That's a gross exaggeration.

      However, it is true that a fair few users will have 90+% of their needs met by just a handful of apps: Phone, Text, Maps, Browser, Email, Calender, Camera, Music etc.

      Other users might find genuine utility in a niche app, especially if they work in a sector like construction or music production, and will choose their platform accordingly.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What 'app gap'?

        especially if they work in a sector like..... music production, and will choose their platform accordingly.

        That's Android out then. Timings are nigh on impossible to get right on Android due to the mish-mash of hardware and software.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What 'app gap'?

          Thanks. I was wondering why some mic apps are not avaliable on Android. Some said "because the mic is in different places on each phone" which sounded stupid.

          But the timing of the hardware/software makes a lot of sense. If it's not right (IIRCaudio is buffered and varies independently to the app in Android), then there will be feedback, delays and missed beats to note just a few problems.

        2. Spearchucker Jones

          Re: What 'app gap'?

          Music production? On Android? With all that lag? I suspect you may be better off with Windows Mobile 6.5. It had better apps 5 years ago than Android does today. iOS is pretty much the only game in town if you're anywhere serious about music production. And no, don't take my word for it. Go see what the pros have to say about it. Palm Sounds, or the like.

          For the record, I'm one of probably only about 5 or so Windows Phone fan boys. I don't use it for music production, even though, while not exactly worse than the iPhone, it's way ahead of what Android can do. That lag issue has been around for ever :-/

    2. Richard Plinston

      Re: What 'app gap'?

      > The so-called 'app gap' only exists in the imagination of teenage scribblers from the fourth estate and/or AAPL fanbois.

      The 'app-gap' is likely to get worse now. Developers that were working cross platform probably dumped their WinPhone ports when they heard they could run their Android ports on Win10M without the effort. Now that has been dumped they may feel betrayed and not restart WinPhone porting to the new 'Universal' apps for 1.7% global market share.

      Full time WinPhone developers may have moved to Android rather than to UAP in the expectation that this would keep their current market and expand it to the 80% market. Now they too may feel dumped on, as they did when WP7 killed WM6.x and when WP8 dumped WP7.

    3. Spearchucker Jones

      Re: What 'app gap'?

      @JJ Carter - yeah some people complain about a lack of apps, and there are some omissions. Happily it doesn't affect me as web sites mostly work well enough - if an app wants access to microphone, contacts, camera and there's no obvious reason for it, I don't install it anyway. If I need it I write it myself. I've pre-ordered the 950XL, and looking forward to tumbleweeds in the app store.

    4. Jim84

      Re: What 'app gap'?

      Yeah but FOMO is a real thing.

    5. TotallyInfo

      Re: What 'app gap'?

      Not so, it is a very real issue in the enterprise market which is where MS are focusing efforts to sell their phones. With considerable success in the EU I might add.

      The cost not only to buy but to manage is significantly less than competing platforms (iOS) without compromising security (Android).

      MS need to encourage the big enterprise vendors to create Windows Mobile versions of their smartphone apps so that enterprises can do their expenses, etc. on the move.

  11. John Sanders
    Windows

    """Without making itself irrelevant,"""

    It is irrelevant already, but that's another story for another day.

    1) What I would like to know is why making it Android compatible is a problem, and making it iOS compatible is not.

    2) Win32 sandboxed apps on a mobile yeah, that is going to cause some... what? why the hell are they doing this in the first place.

    3) Web pages as apps, everybody found this was a bad idea 10 years ago, any interesting web-app is tied to an online database.

    What's the maket for a winphone?

    Regular iOS users aren't going to rush to buy a Windows phone, not for the time being.

    Savvy Android users aren't going to buy a winphone, what for? Seriously, what for? Restrictions?

    Android users in corporate environments or unsuspecting consumers who do not use their phones for much may try a winphone if is on a discount, pretty much that's what's been happening so far.

    How much money is MS willing to sink on winphone?

    1. Tom 13

      Re: How much money is MS willing to sink on winphone?

      Even that isn't quite the right question. The right question is:

      How much money is MS willing to sink trying to make two inherently different interface models use the same interface? Because this is a much a problem for them on the desktop side as it is on the phone side. At the moment the answer appears to be "All of it."

  12. Phil Kingston

    As much as I may have once lived it, that has properly killed Windows mobile. To death.

    I'll bet WindowsCentral is fun tonight.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thrive or die.

    Or your platform can thrive, or it's better to let it die. Otherwise users will make it die anyway - really, why should you go through the hassles of running Android apps on WinPhone instead of Android directly? The subtle compatibility and UI issues will make you mad sooner or later.

    I was among the ones who run Win 3.1 apps on OS/2. At least then (1994), OS/2 offered something better than Windows 3.1, a true 32 bit environment and a better file system. And a somewhat more modern look than NT 3.x. As soon as NT4 was available, these little advantages disappeared - and the lack os native OS/2 app doomed it.

    Windows Phone is a good mobile OS, but from most users perspective it has very little advantages (or none at all) over Android, especially if MS slurps as much data as Google. It also means less handset choices. If it can't thrive by itself and its native apps, it will die anyway.

  14. SVV

    Project Westminster

    Just went and read through this, after the rather bizarre description "turns your website into an app".

    After having read the rather woolly article linked to in this story, what it basically seems to be is an ability to write apps for a surface or winphone that will be accessed by its' browser, whereby URLs beginning with http:// will simply be served up by the appropriate website as normal and URLs beginning with ms-web-app:// will be able to call native apps loaded on to the device.

    Considering the woefully low market share of MS devices, why would any company implement a website with this "need an app that only runs on an MS device to access it" architecture, instead of the "works from any browser on any OS" approach that everyone has been pursuing for years (if not always 100% successfully of course)?

    At the most this will be tried by a handful of niche Windows centric developers.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Project Westminster

      Considering the woefully low market share of MS devices, why would any company implement a website with this "need an app that only runs on an MS device to access it" architecture, instead of the "works from any browser on any OS" approach that everyone has been pursuing for years (if not always 100% successfully of course)?

      http://xkcd.com/1174/

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Project Westminster

        Also both the solution and the problem:

        https://xkcd.com/927/

        1. billdehaan

          Re: Project Westminster

          I think

          https://xkcd.com/1367/

          is actually more apropos.

      2. Ian Ringrose

        Re: Project Westminster

        Sometimes someone has to be able to get work done where there is no internet connection, but you don’t want to provide a different “on line” and “off line” UI. So an “on-line” application that can be built from the source code of your website can be a good option.

        Otherwise you have an application (e.g. stair design software) that you wish a lot of people to be able to access over the internet, but a few people need to be able to send the design to the machine (that is connected to a local PC) to make the stairs that is connected to a local PC.

        Another example is that hospital x-rays are normally accessed var an internal website, but you always want a PC directly connected to the x-ray machine, so you can view a x-ray if the network is not working. Project Westminster allows the reuse of the lot of the website code, on the local directly connected viewing PC.

        So stop thinking of it as “implement a website”, think if it more as integrate the website into an applicant.

        1. Richard Plinston

          Re: Project Westminster

          > Sometimes someone has to be able to get work done where there is no internet connection, ...

          > So stop thinking of it as “implement a website”, think if it more as integrate the website into an applicant[sic].

          https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2015/07/06/project-westminster-in-a-nutshell/

          """Today we’ll address Project Westminster, which gives you the ability to leverage your existing web development workflow and publish your responsive website to the Windows Store. The team calls these published websites Hosted Web Apps, since the majority of the content is being served from your website."""

          With "the majority of the content is being served from your website" it won't be much use "where there is no internet connection".

          It seems the critical part of this project is: "publish your responsive website to the Windows Store". This is to get the numbers up quickly plus, potentially, charge for the app and collect 30% of the revenue*.

          * only necessary until Microsoft works out how to get revenue from browsers accessing your web site directly.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Project Westminster

      So that's the original iPhone webapp, but eight years later, for those people who don't like to open a URL in a browser.

      Well we might as well forget about this one too because that's not going to save Windows Phone either.

  15. Known Hero

    Counter Move

    I have just Sidelined my plans to get a windows phone.

    *only really want Waze & Teamspeak. Would also be nice to get the odd android app if not on windows, no matter.

    YOUR MOVE

    1. jaywin

      Re: Counter Move

      Well Waze is already on WP. There's about 20 results when I search for Teamspeak, but TBH they all look a bit dodgy.

  16. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

    Sensible choice, though...

    Never saw the point of porting both Android and iOS code automatically. Do one, yes, or the other, but doing both was a bit redundant..

    There aren't many apps on Android that aren't also available on iOS. Sure, there are some utilities that are only possible on Android, but let's not kid ourselves that this was about them: this was an effort to get the heavily marketed "must have" app-of-the-moment titles onto Windows Phone, and all of those are on iOS and Android.

    The "Islandwood" project, for iOS porting, has a sounder engineering basis: head the incompatibility issues off at the source, rather than try to replicate the runtime. It needs developer input, but if it reduces the porting costs dramatically, it makes a Windows port easier to justify - especially as Windows 10 opens up a market of laptop/desktop users too. (Why Apple hasn't looked at this approach to get iOS apps ported onto its moribund OSX App Store, I don't know)

    I'm surprised that this wasn't the approach taken with Android too - after all, C# and Java are syntactically very close to each other, and it should be possible to shim a lot of the Android APIs. Maybe the lure of "run anything, with no additional developer contribution" was too much to resist.

    The source of this article notes that the iOS porting project was running with a tenth of the staff of the Android one, and was making better progress too.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Sensible choice, though...

      >(Why Apple hasn't looked at this approach to get iOS apps ported onto its moribund OSX App Store, I don't know)

      I guess many apps design for multi-touch iDevices would offer a less-than-ideal user experience on a mouse / trackpad / keyboard-based Mac. Then there's Apple's business model to consider - their software ('Continuity' et al) is designed around you buying both an iPad and a Mac

  17. theOtherJT Silver badge

    Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

    Because this here is the same shit we keep getting from Microsoft. They just don't know what they're doing with it.

    Microsoft to customers: "It's a phone! No, wait, a desktop replacement pocket computer! With native Windows apps! No wait, with "Windows Store" apps which aren't the same... No wait again, with Android apps! No, not Android apps, then people will buy Android, shit... um... New entirely for 2016: Native Porcine Aviation binary compatibility layer!"

    Meanwhile:

    Customers to Microsoft: "We're not buying any of these things until you get your bloody act together for fear the next mind change involves you redesigning the entire thing specifically to do air traffic control for flying pigs - because that would make about as much sense as your "Strategy" so far, if you could possibly be said to have one!"

    And I say this as someone who actually really _liked_ Windows phone when it first rocked up.

    1. mrbawsaq

      Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

      I'd add that calling their OS Windows Phone, Windows Mobile, Windows Handset Edition, Windows Cellphone 10 or Windows anything is not helping sales. Even calling the OS Windows "Come And Get A Free Phone" Phone wouldn't help increase market share significantly.

      If I were running the show I'd ditch the toxic Windows and Microsoft brand names and start afresh in the hope of gaining some traction in the consumer market.

      1. Just Enough

        Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

        If you think that "Windows" is a toxic brand name then clearly you have no idea of the end user market.

        "Windows" is a long established, recognised brand that sells. People are happy if they are told something runs on Windows. Having a phone/tablet that is "the same as Windows" on their computer is a good thing in their eyes, because they don't have to learn another OS to use it. Users like familiar, even if it's not exactly optimal.

        This is why Microsoft are finally getting the idea and getting rid of the umpteen sub-versions of "not quite Windows" that confused and annoyed users.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

          ""Windows" is a long established, recognised brand that sells. People are happy if they are told something runs on Windows"

          No. No way. In consumer-land, "Windows" means getting viruses, pop-ups, reboots, slow, bundled crapware, blue-screen, failed updates, nagging, expensive trips to PC world for a "reboot".

          What non-technical user enjoys using their computer?

          Having a Windows phone/tablet means: "A device that's as shit as your PC".

          1. mrbawsaq

            Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

            I concur.

            When asked for my opinion, all my friends have bought Macbook Air devices and/or iPads to replace their PoS laptops that they bought in PC World.

            Their perception of Windows? Utter shite that they hate using. Most of them aren't aware that there even is a Windows Phone option available.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

              But.... Apple is doomed aren't they?

              According to a good number of commentards hereabouts buying anything Fruity is akin to selling out to the enemy.

              When I reported that a good number of my friends had done the same, the Apple haters came out in force and downvoted me accordingly.

              But honestly with MS being only good at aiming the footgun recently what really viable alternative is there for non computer geeks/nerds?.

              The POS (aka Value range of Notebooks) are just that POS. Eventually people realise that these things don't last and decide to go for something that is (mostly) built better than any of what PC Worlds sells.

              1. Snapper

                Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

                Wait a few minutes for the inevitable 'Apple is too expensive' call.

                Point One: Apple don't make cheap plastic shit with minimum RAM and low-res screens that last a couple of years.

                Point Two: If a Windows PC is made to the same manufacturing quality as say, a MacBook Pro 15", then they are usually the same price or more expensive.

                Point Three: Windows PC's are for those who don't know any better or can't/won't afford quality.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

          @Just Enough - well, they certainly used to be happy to be told that something runs on Windows. Not so much in recent years, in my experience, mostly due to a combination of enforced GUI changes and software incompatibility from one version to the next. MS-hater though I am, I'd far rather theyd done a better job over the years, making new GUIs additional extras rather than enforced changes (because computing monocultures make things easier for the blackhats, hence, dislike MS though I do, I don't want to see Windows die). As for what Win 10 turned out to be, well .. I'm shocked, even I didn't think MS would much things up that badly, and I've certainly heard more angst from non-techhies about it than I ever did about Vista or WinCE in their days.

          1. Tom 13

            Re: dislike MS though I do, I don't want to see Windows die

            Sorry dude. It's already dead. But as we are told about shooting a dinosaur in the head, the rest of the body just doesn't know it yet. And I say that as someone who has always hated Apple's walled garden and preferred the MS world instead.

        3. theOtherJT Silver badge

          @Just Enough

          "Windows" is a long established, recognised brand that sells.

          That's clearly what Microsoft's marketing department thought.

          Having a phone/tablet that is "the same as Windows" on their computer is a good thing in their eyes, because they don't have to learn another OS to use it. Users like familiar

          And that's exactly why they thought it.

          What they didn't get as far as working out was that it's not actually possible to square that particular circle. Of course everyone wants Windows on their phone to be the same as Windows on their desktop, that means less effort. But then if they get that, everyone actually hates it because Desktop Windows doesn't work on a phone, and Phone Windows doesn't work on a desktop.

          Faced with contradictory goals (Everything should be the same across all products <> Users hate it when we try and use the same UI on multiple products) they went into a flat spin and started changing things apparently at random, mostly not for the better, trying to work out what to do.

          If they'd thought a little harder they'd have realized that what this all really comes down to is that what people want is to get as little hassle as possible, and if WinPho had delivered better in that respect by just doing everything you wanted it to with the least amount of fuss and never doing anything obviously weird, then no one would have actually given a damn if it was the same as desktop Windows or not.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

          Having a phone/tablet that is "the same as Windows" on their computer is a good thing in their eyes, because they don't have to learn another OS to use it. Users like familiar, even if it's not exactly optimal.

          Except ... Windows 8 sure as hell wasn't the same as Windows 7 and users DID have to learn another OS to use it. Metro apps are nothing like windows apps. Windows 10 isn't much better - taking your flagship desktop OS and trying to dumb it down to a phone level was not the best move.

        5. Richard Plinston

          Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

          > People are happy if they are told something runs on Windows.

          People bought Windows RT devices and found that 'runs on Windows' did not work, and were not happy.

          > Having a phone/tablet that is "the same as Windows" on their computer is a good thing in their eyes, because they don't have to learn another OS to use it. Users like familiar, even if it's not exactly optimal.

          You have the chronology wrong. Windows Phone brought out a completely new UI (Metro) that was not 'the same as Windows' and did users did not buy it. Consultants advised Microsoft that the reason that it was failing was because of the unfamiliar user interface. MS in its wisdom came up with a scheme to make it 'the most familiar UI in the world' by forcing it down everyone's throats with Windows 8.

          Users did not like it - because it was unfamiliar, and, mostly, rejected Windows Phones because it was like the 'hated' new, unfamiliar, Windows UI of 8.

          > This is why Microsoft are finally getting the idea and getting rid of the umpteen sub-versions of "not quite Windows" that confused and annoyed users.

          They are _not_ getting rid of the umpteen sub-versions, they are merely getting rid of the umpteen different names (RT, Phone, IoT, PC Desktop) and hoping that using just one name will confuse users enough for them to buy the products in spite of some of them still being 'not quite Windows'.

          1. Richard Plinston

            Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

            > hoping that using just one name will confuse users enough for them to buy the products in spite of some of them still being 'not quite Windows'.

            In much the same way Microsoft are advertising Continuum as "It’s a PC-like experience that’s powered by your phone". It is _not_ a 'PC-like' experience. It is a 'Windows RT' like experience (possibly without the touch) because it is still ARM and thus is still 'not quite Windows' and certainly not like Windows on a PC.

        6. W. Anderson

          Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

          The commenter 'Just Enough' has been living in the twilight zone, and has "just enough" knowledge and intelligence to probably get by with living.

          If Microsoft Mobile sales are measured at approximately 5%, as compared to approximately 93% for Apple iOS and Android combined and growing - according to Gartnet, IDC, Forrester, and every reputable and credible Market Research firm in USA and Internationaly, how does this person make the connection from reality to their dream concept of Microsoft Mobile dominance. Like in many other areas of life, those persons with dysfunctional thinking and as slavish Microsoft supporters, will unfortunately never accept facts or reality on the ground.

          Microsoft has adopted a customized Linux distribution for their networking infrastructure, and for supporting Hadoop in Big Data Analytics, as well as recently signed a significant agreement for supporting RedHat Enterprise Linux with Docker Containerization in Azure Cloud computing services, totally in response to "demand" from most of their Cloud customers.

          The marketshare for Cloud Computing Services between Amazon AWS and various vendor OpenStack Cloud Computing Services stands at approximately 82%, partly for reasons stated above, with Microsoft Azure at around 10%. The only area where Microsoft still dominates is Desktop computing, and even that area is fading with more Android/ChromeOS and Apple OS X adoption than ever before.

          It has become sickening to read the diatribe from Microsofties who think that Microsoft and Windows will return to some sort of world domination in all spheres on technology soon. Thy need to get a life and/or a psychiatrist.

          1. Just Enough

            Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

            The commenter " W. Anderson" has too boring an account name for me to invent hilarious insults about him. Sorry.

            However, I can comment on his rant about Windows Mobile by asking; Who said anything about Windows Mobile? Not me and not this article. If you are sickened by other's opinions on the IT market, then you have some serious issues, and perhaps shouldn't be in the IT business. It's clearly not doing your health any good. But more likely it's because you're not actually interested in what others' opinions are, you're too busy inventing, and getting cross about, your own strawmen.

            Perhaps W. Anderson could try to transport himself out of the conversation in his head, and back to the discussion we're actually having?

          2. TotallyInfo

            Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

            Hmm, it seems that diatribe's can come from anywhere.

            Of course MS have a lot to prove and a new CEO to do it with. Unfortunately he has many decades of Balmer to undo - it may take a while.

            But your figures don't show the whole deal. Yes Windows Mobile is a small % of the global market. However, in certain markets it is already >10% which is enough to trigger development of apps by certain vendors. MS are focussed on the enterprise market at present while keeping the handset prices low enough to make them attractive. Low cost + Windows Manageability is not to be sneezed at when you have thousands of handsets to manage on a tight budget.

            And Azure is similarly making significant progress in certain areas. Government and health for example where the work MS have done getting certified to industry and government standards is helping drive a massive wave of cloud deployments (ref UK MOD for example). Might be a small % but it still means that MS are building cloud capacity at an exponential rate and doing so while meeting the requirements of enterprises that wouldn't commit to the way that Amazon and Google work.

        7. Tom 13

          Re: If you think that "Windows" is a toxic brand name

          The same could have been said about Lotus when Quattro introduced their product. Then came Notes. MS did the same thing with Windows 8. We've come to expect every other MS OS to be pretty much a turkey, but they were supposed to fix in Windows 10. But they didn't.

          I just finished building out a Windows 10 laptop for my mother. It will likely be the last laptop I build for her. I won't build one for myself. The only reason I built it for her is I know she'll eventually forget and hit the "Free Upgrade to Windows 10" MS has been pushing, because that's pretty much what happened to her last laptop. This App Centric focus of theirs WILL be the death of the company. Everything I don't like about the OS comes from that.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

        and start afresh in the hope of gaining some traction in the consumer market

        What... again??

        This is one of the things that makes me reluctant to get one. Not that it's shite and no one else has one... but because not even MS like what they're doing and keep changing whatever it is they're doing. I wouldn't mind if they were actually improving things, or if this area of tech isn't a decade old.

      3. Richard Plinston

        Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

        > If I were running the show I'd ditch the toxic Windows and Microsoft brand names and start afresh in the hope of gaining some traction in the consumer market.

        They tried that with Kin (actually a Danger product) and Zune. Look how well that worked.

    2. billdehaan

      Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

      And I say this as someone who actually really _liked_ Windows phone when it first rocked up.

      I'm right there with you.

      I was an OS/2 developer. I have had two Betamax video machines. And a Blackberry Playbook. And of course a Lumia 520.

      No, I'm not the patron saint of lost causes. In each case, the product I got was the right one at the time. I repeat, at the time.

      OS/2 became dead to me when Windows 95 came out and, while technically inferior, actually did things like display my 1024x768 display at 1024x768 rather than 640x480, support my Irwin tape drive, and had access to a library of supported software. But I don't begrudge using OS/2; it was a damned sight better than Windows 3.1. IBM promised to extend its' life by supporting Win95 apps, then Win32 apps, the "Win32se" apps (whatever they were), then "hey, Java!". IBM broke its' promise to support Windows 32 bit applications, and OS/2 never recovered.

      The Blackberry Playbook I got on the cheap for $99, so I didn't expect much; I really just wanted a 7" tablet that had a decent web browser and could do mail. I was curious about the promised Blackberry OS10, which Blackberry promised as a free upgrade. But when OS 10 came out, Blackberry realized that it wouldn't work on the Playbook, so they broke their promise, and that was it for Blackberry in the tablet space.

      And now Microsoft appears to be reneging on their promises for Android compatibility. Regardless of whether it was a good idea in the first place (and I certainly had my reservations), breaking a promise puts WinPhone in Playbook territory.

      The chicken/egg problem of apps requires critical mass in order to take off. In other to do that, it's critical to build confidence in both the developer and consumer space. This just torpedoed that.

      1. Richard Plinston

        Re: Biggest problem with Windows phone continues to be mismanagement shocker?

        > IBM broke its' promise to support Windows 32 bit applications

        OS/2 Win3.11 could run Win32s for 32 bit Windows programs. However, Microsoft 'updated' the Win32s DLL to include a completely spurious memory access that was outside the 2Gb limit of the OS/2 virtual memory. This prevented later versions of Win32s to run.

        Microsoft had also delayed the release of Windows 3.11. IBM had the rights to run any released version of 3.x inside OS/2 but anti-trust ruling had required that products not be announced more than 3 months prior to release. IBM had OS/2 with 3.11 announced and ready to ship but MS delayed releasing 3.11 for 3 months and IBM had to ship with 3.1.

        I can well see that MS has dropped Android simply because Google could do exactly that to Microsoft - make it so Android apps won't run on Win10M.

        1. Tom 13

          Re: MS has dropped Android simply because Google could

          Not "could" but "are", only I think it's not as intentional as it was with MS and IBM.

          One of the biggest complaints about the Android ecosystem is that Google releases updates so fast and the manufacturers don't keep up with them. Mostly because they can't. MS has the exact same problem, only more so. And unlike most of the other problems MS has "solved" it can't be fixed by throwing either more programmers or more marketing at it. In fact, throwing more programmers at it probably exacerbates the problem.

  18. Mikel

    Tell me if you heard this one

    Microsoft have untold billions and the world's brightest minds, a number one brand and all the retail relationships in the world to put this over. A billion dollars in marketing just for the launch. Miley Cyrus free concerts, Snoop, all the characters on your favorite movies and shows use it. Numerous hardware partners are slavering at the prospect of that Windows Phone Lucre. With Universal Apps every desktop developer becomes a Windows Phone developer automagically, and the new porting tools make Android and iOS developers Windows Phone developers whether they want to be or not - for a clean sweep of all the developers in the world except those Perl perverts. And webapps too, with the world's finest browser and app wrappers for every major site, bring all the world's technology to your phone. Nobody else has Cortana and that's like having an AI love slave at your beck and call. It's Powered By BING! Everybody loves Bing!

    Why only a fool would bet against that much synergy.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tell me if you heard this one

      Haha excellent! That really made me realise how crappy and unwanted they are.

      They couldn't give it away!

  19. BobRocket

    instead

    Of pissing about trying to get Android on Windows they should port a version of Windows that will run on any Android phone (preferably with the look and feel of XP)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: instead

      That's sort of possible with Wine.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If I could go back to Symbian os and keep the same functionality I would.

    It seems to me it's either massive security holes that never get plugged or functionality promised then removed. I actually liked the idea of windows phone until the debacle that Windows 7 is slowly becoming.

    I'm currently about to upgrade my S3(work) and S4(personal) to cyanogenmod just to get a little sense of security. Already put on my tablet and it looks fine to me.

    Not sure why you would want Android on a windows phone anyway (apart from the apps) with all the millions of updates every time I turn the bloody things on and permissions that make no sense whatsoever.

  21. ADRM
    WTF?

    The lights are on is anyone home?

    So can anyone explain why Microsoft is still trying to force a phone style OS onto the desktop market which users of Windows 7 clearly do not want or need as they are staying put on Windows 7. Is this the beginning of internal wrangling leading to the ousting of Sat Nad and the rewrite of Windows 7 code to create a Window7 SP2?

    1. Queasy Rider

      Re: The lights are on is anyone home?

      You wish. One can only hope.

    2. Captain DaFt

      Re: The lights are on is anyone home?

      One slight change, and you have exactly what the majority of Windows users want: Window7 XP2.

      1. Tom 13

        @Captain DaFt

        Well you've chosen the appropriate screen name if you still think people are looking for the XP interface. Windows 7 is just fine. It's the Windows 8 and Windows 8 SP1 (aka Windows 10) interface nobody wants. Perhaps more importantly, it's the attempt to turn MS into a walled garden like Apple that MS consumers don't want.

  22. Shadow Systems

    I'm not sure it matters.

    I recently went to the Verizon store to get hand's on experience with various devices in preparation for purchasing my next phone.

    I specificly asked to be shown the Windows based devices in order to determine if their Screen Reader Environment (SRE) was up to the job of letting me use the phone in a reliable & stable manner.

    The CSR told me they had *Four* Windows based phones in the store, despite it being their regional HQ & supposed to have the greatest selection of all the other smaller stores.

    Of those four phones, the CSR couldn't figure out how to work it well enough to find any Accessibility options, much less activate the SRE so I could listen to it.

    Same CSR, same store, same visit, asked to see the Android based phones.

    This time the selection is so wide & varied it's like winning a free shopping spree at the toy store.

    Same CSR asked to turn on the Accessibility & it only takes them three tries, two consultations with the manager, and doing a Google search *on the phone* to figure out what to click to activate the SRE.

    Same CSR, Apple devices this time.

    Smaller selection but only a single action to activate the SRE & hand me a talking phone.

    If MS wants to be a contender in the cellphone market then it needs to offer a wider selection of devices & do a MUCH better job of making sure the sales droids in charge of selling them can actually operate it sufficiently to impress the potential customer.

    Android has the selection of devices to fit nearly any budget & use case pattern, but they also need to make sure the sales droids have a clue.

    Apple may not have the selection, but when the air headed bimbo can Make It Work as if she were born with the damned thing in her tiny chubby fist, then evidently someone at Apple made sure the sales droid training was up to the task.

    Do I want a Windows based phone? Not sure. Maybe if the SRE worked & the UI were intuitive, but given what I've heard about WP8.x & W(P)10, I doubt it.

    Do I want an Android device? Given the security issues that have recently been reported, I'm wary about such a move. Maybe if the device starts with Marshmallow & there's a written guarantee of timely upgrades, but otherwise I'm afraid that the software version on it when it leaves the store will be the *only* version it ever sees.

    Do I want an Apple device? Not really, no. But given the state of the SRE on it's hardware, I may not have any real choice. Which means I'll have to save up my pennies, rob the piggy bank, mug the sofa cushions, & possibly sell my First Born in order to afford it.

    *Sigh*

    It's my own fault I guess. I never should have joined Verizon. Too late now, the ETF would eviscerate me & leave me too poor to pay attention.

    TL;DR: The selection of Windows based cellphones is so tiny as to make MS a non-entity in the market. When the Regional SuperStore for my carrier only had *Four* different Windows based phones to sell, it's unlikely as hell that anyone will notice them among the HUNDREDS of Android ones scattered & splattered about the store in every direction.

  23. chivo243 Silver badge

    Making Balmer's Fist won't help

    Hey Sat, are you going to punch somebody?

  24. chemnerd

    Windows suicide.

    Windows is doing a good job of suicide even without Android compatibility. A have a dual boot computer with Linux (Fedora) and windows (8.1/10) set up to boot, and the Windows side has the hardest time finding my Asus DVD drive. Linux always automounts and has no problem finding the drive. I am tempted for my next computer to buy a cheap Windows laptop and just replace the operathing system with Linux.

  25. David Paul Morgan

    Virtual 'Droid?

    I'm sure I ran a version of ICS in a VMWare player VM on my 2003 laptop.

    If anyone has a dire need to do this, then build a VM or just get a 65GBP Lollipop Smartphone off eBay (other online retailers available)

    I am seriously considering getting a transforming Win10 laptop. As long as the common apps are available (facebook, twitter etc) then why bother porting...

    1. MattPi

      Re: Virtual 'Droid?

      "I am seriously considering getting a transforming Win10 laptop. As long as the common apps are available (facebook, twitter etc) then why bother porting..."

      I live-booted Android-x86 on my dell 2-in-1 laptop/tablet device and it was promising. Only Android 4.4, but a lot of stuff worked. Wifi, touch, sound, etc. Fairly impressive. Some apps don't like it though, don't know if that's because they only support ARM or only support non-rooted devices. You can live-boot off a USB stick, so worth a try. It does run in virtual box as well, but I've never tried it on a touch-enabled laptop. mouse and keyboard android is OK, but a little clunky.

  26. PeterM42
    Megaphone

    A dose of reality

    Windows took over the desktop despite NOT being the best technology (bit like VHS vs Betamax).

    Android is taking over the tablet/smartphone despite NOT being the best technology.

    Microsoft should not waste any more effort/money chasing a market already lost.

    Roll on Android on the desktop/laptop for the same reasons that Windows took that marketplace.

    In the meantime Bluestacks works quite well. (www.bluestacks.com)

  27. HonestAbe

    "Suicidal"?

    Maybe "desperate" is a better word. If Microsoft couldn't get app developers to port to Windows, emulating Android would be a last-ditch attempt to create a critical mass of software. RIM had a similar project.

    The real question is whether abandoning this indicates confidence or just cost cutting. Microsoft has been throwing money at developers to develop Windows apps. If they're gaining traction, that would explain the change. On the other hand, they're also laying people off right and left, which could also explain the change.

  28. rtb61

    After Windows anal probe 10 people are looking for every possible way to abandon M$ so it can probe itself into oblivion and so making it easier by training users in Android, well, that sort of plugs the windows 10 holes not just figuratively by leaving windows but by Android routing around those probes.

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