back to article CISA blowup: 'Web giants sharing private info isn't about security – it's state surveillance'

There were sharp words on the floor of the US Senate on Wednesday as lawmakers debated the controversial Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act (CISA) and its amendments. The bill, proposed by Senators Richard Burr (R-NC) and Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), would allow internet giants and other companies to share people's personal …

  1. a_yank_lurker

    America's native criminal class (HT Mark Twain) at their best? Or they doing what Czar Reed observed: "subtracting from the sum total of human knowledge" when they open their mouths?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Goverments (all of them) seem to be classic case of the intelligence of a mob: take the IQ most intelligent person in the mob and divide it by the size of the mob.

  2. Steven Roper

    The US goverment is slitting its country's own throat

    Senator Wyden is right on the ball. It looks to me like the US government is doing everything it possibly can to undermine global trust in American businesses. The EU is already looking to establish EU-controlled alternatives to Silicon Valley giants over data privacy and security issues; other nations are doing likewise, and this is simply going to push them away all the harder.

    1. Turtle

      @Steven Roper Re: The US goverment is slitting its country's own throat

      "The EU is already looking to establish EU-controlled alternatives to Silicon Valley giants over data privacy and security issues; other nations are doing likewise, "

      And what, pray tell, is wrong with that? Do you really think that the world is a better place with the current amount of power and information concentrated in the very limited number of sweaty palms of the Silicon Valley tech oligarchy - which seems to be above control by any legal structures anywhere in the world?

      Perhaps passing this bill *will* encourage "alternatives" to the Silicon Valley tech companies and so reduce their influence. Why do you have problems with that?

      1. SolidSquid

        Re: @Steven Roper The US goverment is slitting its country's own throat

        From the perspective of people outside the US nothing, in fact it's a great opportunity, but for Americans this is their government literally piling on the damage to a large and growing industry in a way that will undermine confidence in them for years to come

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: @Steven Roper The US goverment is slitting its country's own throat

        "And what, pray tell, is wrong with that?"

        He didn't say there was anything wrong with it. He just stated the bleedin' obvious.

      3. Steven Roper
        Big Brother

        Re: @Steven Roper The US goverment is slitting its country's own throat

        "Perhaps passing this bill *will* encourage "alternatives" to the Silicon Valley tech companies and so reduce their influence. Why do you have problems with that?"

        I don't have any problems with it at all; actually I'm all for it. It would be much better for privacy and security if every country did have its own search and social media hosted within its own borders in addition to the global giants.

        The globalism of the internet has advantages as well as disadvantages. For example, the internet have made it possible for me to find and communicate with my cousins, aunts and uncles in the UK who I hadn't seen since emigrating to Australia decades ago - I've never been great at writing letters, but email and social media means I've been able to stay in touch.

        But that same globalism has concentrated unspeakable wealth and power into the hands of a few multinational players - players whose home legal jurisdictions mostly fall within the purview of what I consider to be the most dangerous regime to arise since the Third Reich. Godwin be damned, most people here including many Americans themselves know I'm right about this. History is repeating itself and the US government is spearheading the revival.

        So my original statement was made from the point of view of one of those players - that the US government is undermining their global business model, not from my own point of view. I was wondering why the US government seems so hell-bent on undermining what amounts to its own global internet powerbase, because their actions seem counterproductive to their goals. Why are they doing that? What am I missing here? I apologise if my post didn't make that clearer.

        In the end, I do wonder what difference it would make if intranational Google and Facebook alternatives were set up, even if people did start using them instead of the multinationals. The Australian government is every bit as intrusive and tyrannical as the US government is, not to mention the EU, and no doubt such alternatives would still be privacy nightmares, regardless of whether it's the FBI/NSA or ASIO/AFP or GCHQ/MI5 who snoops my data - they all share it among themselves anyway (look up Five Eyes if you haven't already.)

        Ultimately the only way to approach this is to assume that everything you put on the Internet is visible to anyone who really wants to see it. As the venerable Orwell so aptly put it:

        There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live—did live, from habit that became instinct—in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.

        1. Someone Else Silver badge

          @ Steven Roper -- Re: @Steven Roper The US goverment is slitting its country's own throat

          I was wondering why the US government seems so hell-bent on undermining what amounts to its own global internet powerbase, because their actions seem counterproductive to their goals.

          The answer can be found in the old child's tale, "The Goose that Laid the Golden Egg"

    2. Mark 85

      Re: The US goverment is slitting its country's own throat

      Wyden is one of the few who still believe in the Constitution and citizen's rights. This is less about corporates and much more about the people. If you ever listen to him in interviews, etc. He's very consistent about being against the "security/surveillance" state.

      1. Turtle

        @Mark 85 Re: The US goverment is slitting its country's own throat

        "Wyden is one of the few who still believe in the Constitution and citizen's rights."

        You could not be more wrong. Wyden, far from being on the side of "citizen's rights" is actually a Google hireling. And lemme know when Google reveals how much they've cooperated with, and profited from, the NSA.

        Occasionally, Wyden might support something that benefits real human in addition to his masters at Google, in the same way that even a broken clock tell the correct time twice a day.

        If Google decided that they could make big money in child porn, Wyden would be the first to explain why it should be legalized.

        1. Tony Paulazzo

          Re: @Mark 85 The US goverment is slitting its country's own throat

          If Google decided that they could make big money in child porn, Wyden would be the first to explain why it should be legalized.

          Oh, we've already done that in the UK - only for politicians of course; someone has to think of the children!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The US goverment is slitting its country's own throat

        Wyden is one of our least evil prominent pols. You can still find plenty not to like about him if you take a quick look at his record.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Mushroom

    DiFi has gone into the weeds

    How can this law - which essentially legalizes process-less search and seizure by the Government while indemnifying its agents - be constitutional, and not be in direct contradiction to Amendment IV of the US Constitution?

  4. Martin 47

    Ooh look at the pretty smoke reflected in those mirrors

    Would someone care to explain how the American senate improving (or removing) privacy rights for American citizens has any effect on non existent privacy rights for non Americans?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ooh look at the pretty smoke reflected in those mirrors

      Would someone care to explain how the American senate improving (or removing) privacy rights for American citizens has any effect on non existent privacy rights for non Americans?

      It has no effect at all; according to the US Congress non Americans have no rights at all!

      1. Christoph

        Re: Ooh look at the pretty smoke reflected in those mirrors

        "Feinstein said organizations won't be forced to reveal citizens' private lives to Uncle Sam"

        Non-citizens will have uncle sam sniffing through their underwear drawer as usual.

  5. Dan 55 Silver badge

    it won't be mandatory for businesses to hand over people's private records

    No, not until the act is amended in a year or so's time.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: it won't be mandatory for businesses to hand over people's private records

      It looks like it would be quite simple to do - just introduce strict liability for security breaches facilitated by hacks that corporations could have known about if they'd signed up to CISA, but outrageously and negligently had failed to do.

      Why anybody other than a spook would think it's acceptable to withhold information on security risks unless those at risk agree to totally destroy their customers' privacy is beyond me.

  6. Charles Osborne

    The Constitution?

    Perhaps someone would remind Mr. Burr about the "equal protection" clause before he starts withholding information about threats against those on his enemies list.

  7. WorkingFromHome

    Do as you are told!

    So the bill creators say:

    "When the companies who are against this get hacked, they are going to be begging to cooperate with the federal government"

    Well at least they are being honest about the treatment they intend for anyone who disagrees with them...

    1. Christoph

      Re: Do as you are told!

      Look! These companies are not protecting the private information of their customers! (because we deliberately withheld the information that they needed to do so).

  8. Fraggle850

    Perhaps they'd agree to some quid pro quo agreement?

    Whereby the government get to examine people's online activities for criminality in exchange for letting the people do the same with theirs? Thought not.

  9. Roj Blake Silver badge

    Safe Harbour

    And these people wonder Safe Harbour was ripped up by the EU...

  10. smudge
    Angel

    I now believe in reincarnation

    That pic of Senator Feinstein. It's Liberace, innit?

    Who? Ask yer granny!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I now believe in reincarnation

      > It's Liberace, innit?

      Nah. Liberace had some talent. Feinstein seems only to be able to parrot stuff given to her by her puppetmasters.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    "but there are companies by the hundreds if not thousands that want to participate in this."

    ANY company willingly participating in this should be named and shamed !

    1. Anonymous Blowhard

      Re: "but there are companies by the hundreds if not thousands that want to participate in this."

      Thing is, once this is law they'll start making life difficult for those who don't sign up; loss of government contracts, inexplicable decisions against them in court cases, branding them as un-American etc.

  12. Ole Juul

    attacks from the Feds

    . . . by not sharing people's personal information, they will not be given intelligence and heads up on attacks from the Feds.

    We're already being attacked by the Feds. No heads up needed.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Concentration of too much power

    It seems the intelligence agencies have all the power they need to keep the politicians in check.

    Each one of these Acts just legitimises and expands the various agencies' hold.

  14. Hud Dunlap
    Joke

    Nothing to worry about.

    It is a bipartisan effort.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A whiff of hypocrisy?

    So gathering huge troves of personal data is unacceptable.

    Yet those in the vanguard of the companies objecting include none other than ... Google, Facebook, Microsoft and Apple whose voracious appetite for ... oh yes, personal data - for COMMERCIAL GAIN - apparently knows almost no bounds.

    Remember, knowledge (of us) is power, especially when commercial interests are at stake.

  16. earl grey
    Unhappy

    This only goes to prove one point.

    There are plenty of ignorant bints on both sides of the pond.

  17. Cincinnataroo

    Time for companies to relocate

    Is it time for US companies to disincorporate and re-incorporate in some other country?

    IQ(legislation) = Min(IQ(LawMaker)) - DumbingDownFactor (Where DDF is a positive real)

  18. Someone Else Silver badge
    Big Brother

    "With so much manure here, the must be a pony somewhere"

    [Feinsten's] colleague Burr said on the floor that he couldn't understand the opposition to CISA. Businesses against the new law will put their users at risk, he said, because by not sharing people's personal information, they will not be given intelligence and heads up on attacks from the Feds.

    "When the companies who are against this get hacked, they are going to be begging to cooperate with the federal government," he opined.

    What an immense pile of shit! Yo, Senator Fuckhead! I don't see Sony, or Target, or Home Depot, or any other of the myriad companies that consider maintaining customers' personal data securely a liability, as opposed to an asset, coming hat-in-hand to the Almighty Gub'mint "begging to cooperate" with anything! Why would they? What possible help could the Gub'mint possibly give to Sony, once the horse has left the barn? A tax credit for "Business Losses due to Corporate Incompetence"?

    Take your fundie right-wing freedom-and-liberty-hating totalitarian paranoid delusional brain damage back to North Carolinastan where it belongs, and keep it away from America, OK?

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Blinkered

    "When the companies who are against this get hacked, they are going to be begging to cooperate with the federal government,"

    You have to be inordinately thick to have avoided noticing that the government has more recently and conspicuously had its arse reamed than any of those opposing the bill - I wonder how those federal employees whose details were spaffed feel about US gov data security?

    The spirit of Ted "series of tubes" Stevens has been busy breeding apparently.

  20. NullUserName

    They always want more

    Politicians by profession always want power, so they think the solution to every problem is giving them more power.

    FUD, give us power, Fear#2, give us more power, Fear#4863856 etc..

    The irony is the more they want the power to spy, the more they encourage more & better encryption and not everyone will play by their laws, like other countries and criminals (who will buy encryption tools and services from hackers). So while they won't stop criminals, they will get increasingly more intrusive and powerful spying on the general population.

    But then Politicians want more power over (the majority of) people. That is where their power really comes from, so they want more power, and so it continues to get ever worse.

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