back to article Microsoft sabotages own Lumia smartmobe flagship launch

Microsoft has ensured that its unwanted Lumia phone division won’t upstage its Surface team next week, by posting details of the phones to its own UK Store website. It’s the latest in a series of “accidental” leaks, meaning the new Lumia flagship will be rather familiar by the time it is officially unveiled in New York at the …

  1. Known Hero
    Facepalm

    The second time I get to mention this today !!!!

    Microsoft Finds gun, gets hole in foot.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Can't understand it

      Spend years (secretly) ruining Nokia, buy it on the cheap.

      Rebrand everything and launch own phone line to much fanfare.

      Let it all fade into insignificance.

      1. E_Nigma

        Re: Can't understand it

        That's what happens when you get to buy something on the cheap - you don't appreciate it and don't care if it's a flop.

        Coincidentally, that's pretty much how privatisation of state and public enterprises went on here. Corrupt managers would run a company down so that a "businessman" could come and buy it for next to nothing. The said businessman, if he is a major player, has already done it dozens of times and doesn't really care about the company. He appoints new management with the instructions to cut costs and investments and maximize short term profits. It goes on for some time, but almost inevitably the money dries out, which is when the remaining (by that time no more handful of) workers is laid off and assets sold.

  2. trillyuk

    No comments an hour after posting.

    Nothing to see here, move on, move on.

    As an ex windows phone user getting on for 2 months, along with most of the populations of the world, I don't really care now what Microsoft are doing / not doing on a Lumia phone, if I have a regret it is that I should have jumped before.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No comments an hour after posting.

      if I have a regret it is that I should have jumped before

      Imagine the similar regrets of Microsoft shareholders, who saw them pay $10bn for Nokia's phone business two years ago, and now have something that is worth diddly squat. And in 2014 alone, the key executives trousered $152m for their "services".

      I suppose you do have to pay the going rate to get the best talent, and with the likes of HP and IBM also looking for obscenely over-paid, incompetent squanderers it's a tight C level labour market.

    2. Terry 6 Silver badge

      Re: No comments an hour after posting.

      The thing is I love my Lumia 635.

      I did want something a little bit better. Not vastly better. Just something that closed the gaps, like a forward facing camera and a light, for example. IMHO if Microsoft set the specification for this device it was another example of shooting aimed at foot. No forward facing camera, in the age of Skype and (shudder!) selfies. But at the time I got this, a year ago, there was nothing that was a bit better and wasn't vastly more expensive.

      So maybe a mid-range jobbie is what I need.

      I don't want flashy stuff. I don't even want Android CrApps.

      I do want a smart phone with reasonable functionality.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No comments an hour after posting.

        The 435 sorted the forward camera issue and is a very good entry level phone.

      2. Nick L

        Re: No comments an hour after posting.

        I picked up a 640 - the bog standard one - locked to AT&T for my wife whilst in the states, which AT&T kindly unlocked for me. Just under $80, and it's a superb phone: responsive, decent camera (with live pictures, imagine that!) SD card slot, 4G LTE... I'm genuinely impressed. It'll update to 10 when it's available, but right now I'm more than happy with it, as is my wife. Whether this is the sweet spot for Windows phone, I don't know, but I certainly think that device is pretty much getting it right. Will be interesting to see what extras the top end range pack in, and the price point...

        1. asdf

          Re: No comments an hour after posting.

          >Just under $80

          >Whether this is the sweet spot for Windows phone

          Probably not for Microsoft at that price. Even giving them away at or below cost they are in the low single digits in market share in most markets.

      3. oldcoder

        Re: No comments an hour after posting.

        So ... you want an iPhone?

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No comments an hour after posting.

        The sad story is that the 620 was actually a better specced phone and then the 6xx line was dumbsized for silly reasons..

      5. Robert Grant

        Re: No comments an hour after posting.

        735 is very nice; my wife has one.

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: No comments an hour after posting.

          @Robert Grant, we have 3 Lumnia 630s and a 1020 here. The battery is starting to go on the 1020 (running the beta of Windows 10 on it probably doesn't help either). I'm really looking forward to the two new phones. Shame the price wasn't shown as well. I hope there isn't too long a wait.

          The new Nexus phones look nice, but I prefer Windows to Android.

      6. Kar98

        Re: No comments an hour after posting.

        Obviously look at the Lumia 640 then.

        1. The Brave Sir Robin

          Re: No comments an hour after posting.

          I recently bought a Lumia 640. After several Android devices over the years I have to say I love the Lumia. Bloody cheap and yet does everything I need or want and I really like Windows Phone. Far more satisfied with it than the Galaxy S3, S2 and HTC Desire that preceeded it.

          1. E_Nigma

            Re: No comments an hour after posting.

            Seriously? I own a Lumia 640 and the device is pretty but, previously, I owned a no name Chinese Android with similar specs (A7 quad core, 1GB RAM, 720p screen) that cost me 105€ two years ago and I was happier with it than the Lumia (sadly, I dropped it down a flight of stairs and something inside broke). Lumia is lacking certain basic features that I've had on Android for ages, such as performing an automatic quick search while inputting numbers into the dialer, or swipe input in my language (both supposedly to be fixed in W10P) and a bunch of other small or not so small niggles. Also, Android actually has better multitasking. It may be down to the app itself, but switch from the current app to the music player just to change the song and then switch back and there's a good chance that the OS has already hibernated the original app. Also, not sure about the paid apps, but free ones are usually as crappy if not worse than those on Android (where at least you have more choice to pick and find an app that got it the closest to the way you want it).

    3. billdehaan
      Meh

      Re: No comments an hour after posting.

      Sadly so.

      I've got two phones, a Lumia 520 and a Moto G. This started as a Android/Lumia/Android transition over the years (preceded by a decade of Nokias, culminating in a S60 based 5800).

      Although I liked my 5800, having picked up an Android tablet in 2011 (Asus Transformer TF101), when the 5800 started to die, I decided to try an Android. Most of the decent Android phones at the time were hideously expensive, so I grabbed a cheapo $130 or so Gingerbread (LG P500H) which showed promise. It was dog slow, and very limited as a smart phone. I'm not complaining; for $130, it was great phone, if not a terrific computing device.

      The Lumia 520 was $99, and beat the pants off the LG 500, and really showed the difference between a $100 WinPhone and a $100 Android. At the high end, Android may have overshadowed WinPhone, but on the cheap devices, WinPhone really did shine.

      However, eventually cheaper Androids appeared, and the $150 Moto G caught my eye. There are still things I prefer about the Lumia: the smaller 4" form factor, the tiles (when they work, which was not always), and the microSD slot amongst them. And, of course, the excellent HERE maps. But as more and more apps got added to my Moto G, and fewer and fewer of them had WinPhone versions (seriously, even KeePass implementations on the WinPhone are limited, feature wise), the Lumia was finally relegated to backup car phone, a role that a battery-sipping, offline GPS laden phone with the decent Sygic dashcam app ($10) was suited perfectly to.

      However, with my last birthday, my friends noticed I was GPS-less and dashcam-less, and decided to rectify those matters with gifts. So, with my new TomTom GPS and generic 1080p dashcam, the Lumia has moved into the glove compartment, still a car phone, but now only hooked up to the battery once a month to retain a charge.

      I still keep any eye out on the Lumia world (if for no other reason that I still have a $25 credit at the Windows Phone store and I can't find anything worth spending it on), but I find the offerings less and less compelling.

      Oh well. I still have my second Betamax machine (the first died after a decade of use) and my OS/2 2.0, 2.11, and Warp 3.0 CDs in the basement as well. They all served me well, but their time has come and gone (or is going, it seems for WinPhone). De moritus nil nisi bonum.

    4. dogged

      Re: No comments an hour after posting.

      No comments because Orlowski article. Moderated.

      I'm almost certainly going to buy that 950XL, by the way. WP works well. This is a flagship with a removal battery and an SD card slot, not to mention native handwriting support.

      Oh, and it doesn't have Stagefright or give out all your contacts and photos without even entering a PIN

      1. asdf

        Re: No comments an hour after posting.

        > give out all your contacts and photos without even entering a PIN

        Fixed already in 9.0.2 and rolled out probably to a larger portion of the user base (including me and I am hardly some bleeding edge beta tester type) than the much more serious stage fright bug which is only partial fixed and reported months ago to Google. Granted its an embarrassing security issue for Apple but not a wtfpwnd like Android's.

    5. brainout

      Re: No comments an hour after posting.

      Funny; I'm also newly feeling that about the whole OS, all MSFT services, and MSFT itself. How many times do they promise and how many times do they lie. Newly aka.ms/msa governs all their stuff; so newly, its Paragraph 3 Code of Conduct which only they adjudicate; and newly, uniliterally, they assert the right to slurp all one's private data and to bork, remove, publish one's private data. Which newly, makes one subject to lawsuits from all third parties whose data is on one's machine; for those third parties, did NOT consent to aka.ms/msa on one's device.

      So I regret that I didn't jump ship before. But at least no private data gets slurped. Never again will trust them, and clearly the incompetence in management will never again arise, either.

      So newly learning to use Linux online, for newly turning off all Windows updates, and keeping the Good Olde Windows.. offline.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Any bets ...

    ... when MS completely gives up and cans the Lumia range? This is the second time they have ventured into the mobile phone market, guess how many times they have failed?

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: Any bets ...

      Second time?

      I think more than that. Or else once. Which phone was the first windows CE PDA with a phone built in. People made smart phones (with various OS, not just CE and Symbian) long before they were called smart phones and MS had CE in phones long before they messed up Danger/Sidekick.

      It's only the second time they bought a phone division.

      1. big_D Silver badge

        Re: Any bets ...

        @Mage, yep, I had a Compaq iPaq with phone module and later and Fujitsu Loox with a similar phone module. They were great for the time.

    2. RealBigAl

      Re: Any bets ...

      I'm sure the recent detante between Microsoft and Google will not in any way lead to an Android Lumia at some point in the future...

      1. big_D Silver badge

        Re: Any bets ...

        @RealBigAl As long as it has a Windows 10 skin... I use Windows Phones because I prefer the interface. I've been through iOS and Android and I am very happy with the UI on Windows Phone 8.1 and Windows 10 Mobile.

    3. Ilgaz

      Re: Any bets ...

      It will mean the entire "future of windows" vision has failed. CEO will be fired along with tens of thousands of people. They will become a services/software company.

      IBM did this in 90s and they did it so successfully that people think it is easy. It isn't.

    4. Jason Hindle

      Re: As a former HTC TyTn owner

      I'd argue Microsoft succeeded first time, didn't realise it, and then panicked (along with everyone else) when the iPhone appeared?

      1. Ilgaz

        Re: As a former HTC TyTn owner

        Coming from Symbian scene, that is exactly what Nokia did too. Nokia was selling well and their trolltech/Linux strategy was working, as last resort they had Android compatibility card to play.

        I think it all happened because developers and advanced users didn't see OS vendor commitment. Why waste money and time on a platform with no future?

        For example, I use Android while I hate Google and their little spy games& tactics. I am a potential customer and all I see is a company shipping phones without a front camera.

  4. Slacker@work

    Nice to see...

    ... they support 2TB MicroSD cards*

    *if any were actually available and not more expensive than the handset

    1. Steve Gill

      Re: Nice to see...

      Odds are 2TB MicroSD cards will be pretty cheap in six months time

      1. Known Hero

        Re: Nice to see...

        define cheap, but yes i get your point.

        It's nice to see some future proofing, I think Microsoft are looking to build a phone every 2-4 years not release one every 6 months. I approve of that strategy and falling phone sales hint so as well.

        Quite happy on my xperia Z 4 years old

      2. PleebSmash
        FAIL

        Re: Nice to see...

        The highest capacity MicroSD cards are 200 GB from SanDisk, and an announced but impossible to find 512 GB MicroSD card from Microdia. Full-sized SD cards haven't reached 1 terabyte as far as I know, just 512 GB.

        So the odds are not good that 2TB MicroSD cards will be pretty cheap or exist in six months time.

  5. Whitter
    WTF?

    Microsoft in a word

    Rudderless?

  6. Frank N. Stein

    Nadella sucks

    Nadella appears to be better at fancy speeches than delivering any results.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nadella sucks

      "Nadella appears to be better at fancy speeches than delivering any results."

      Unfortunately, several Republican contenders are already standing on that USP, so a career in politics looks unlikely, unless Fiorina and Trump fall into the Balrog pit together.

  7. adnim
    Happy

    Fewer and fewer people

    are caring everyday....

    I am an old man hoping MS die before I do.... I supported Windows from 3.1 to XP. Hence the bitter taste and anger that still lingers, I have a long memory. I still use Win7 on one machine and I am very happy with it. Its good for games and the one graphics package I use that will not run under Wine.

  8. Frumious Bandersnatch

    What do they want £X pounds for?

    Expences, obviously.

  9. CrosscutSaw

    Such a cluster

    I tried to hang on to my Lumia phone as long as I could, and then had enough.

    I still get emails from Microsoft here and there, about their Lumia line.

    I laugh. I was duped. I really liked the phone.But it screwed me. How hard is it to develop apps?

    I guess impossible.

    1. asdf

      Re: Such a cluster

      > How hard is it to develop apps?

      My guess is knowing Microsoft actually not that hard. Its that zero return on investment of time and money that is the problem.

      1. CrosscutSaw

        Re: Such a cluster

        Granted, it's probably something they could whip up. But the thing is, with the prevalence of mobile phones and their penetration in business, there is plenty of ROI. Meeting apps, MS Office, collaboration, on and on. They just dropped the ball big time.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Digitimes recently reported that Microsoft is looking for budget no-name vendors to take up the strain of flogging cheap Windows phones. ®"

    I wonder if Delboy would be interested.

    Winphones are so bad, you cant even buy a cheap Chinese knock-off.

    1. asdf

      can't resist

      Whatever happened to Sendo? Sorry too soon.

  11. nkuk

    I'm surprised Microsoft are still trying to flog this dead horse, these phones will probably cost more than a Nexus and MS will wonder why no-one in their right mind is buying them.

  12. Deevo

    On the other hand...

    Microsoft has more spare cash than God. They don't give a damn about "failed" phones - they'll keep on trying different things until they get it right. That is the Microsoft way.

    BTW - I can think of a lot of phone manufacturer executives who'd give their leftie for the same share of the smartphone market that MS has. A little bit of a lot is still a lot!

  13. Ilgaz

    It hurts Android and Apple users too

    As Microsoft Windows phone can't compete, Google and Apple happily share the whole market and do whatever they want.

    You have only 2 choices, actually you don't really have a choice. Certain people will only buy Android, others will only buy Apple based on their usage patterns.

    1. asdf

      Re: It hurts Android and Apple users too

      Well if you don't mind butt ugly phones the shambling corpse of BB is still out there. Supposedly all these non Android Linux phones are supposed to be coming or out there but good luck with that. Yeah its a depressing market place in a lot of ways.

  14. Ilgaz

    Apple is a software& services company

    What Microsoft and even Samsung fails to understand is, Apple is a OS/Apps vendor who happens to design the hardware which those apps will run on.

    They aren't understanding what is wrong to begin with. Steve Jobs did understand what was wrong at Apple and fixed it.

  15. Mikel

    looking for budget no-name vendors to take up the strain of flogging cheap Windows phones.

    Where are they going to find a no-name phone manufacturer with an urgent need to get rid of hundreds of millions of dollars of excess capital? They may be hunting unicorns here.

  16. Terry 6 Silver badge

    Halo effect

    I wonder to what extent the Microsoft that was known for an everyday workhorse OS (Win 98 to 7 ) followed by a vile and derided OS (8). And for the everyday workhorse Office package (Win 2003) that was replaced with the much less friendly line of Office 201x products has simply made it impossible to succeed in a phone market that is balanced between fashion and usability.

    i.e. The older OS and Office weren't fashionable.The later ones aren't sufficiently usable.

    However good the WInphones may be there just isn't anything to love about the brand.

    And maybe that's because they don't seem to care about what their users need, preferring to give users what they imagine we ought to want.

    1. Philippe

      Re: Halo effect

      Exactly.

      The rot started with Windows Vista, Office 2007 and Windows Mobile.

      It has been downhill from there..

  17. JimC

    It occurs to me

    That the identity of the product that the rot started with may well relate to the age of the poster. I'm not sure there has been an Ms upgrade I've been prepared to recommend unequivocally to the standard just want to do my job user since the 90s.

  18. ShaolinTurbo

    I think Nokia were on to a good thing. Well done Microsoft you completely screwed it up. RIP Nokia 1020.

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