back to article Bitcoin is an official commodity, says US gummint

The Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) has declared that Bitcoin, and indeed all virtual currencies, are officially commodities. The ruling arose after the CFTC ordered two outfits, Coinflip, Inc. d/b/a Derivabit (Coinflip), to stop their Bitcoin-trading activities. The FCTC says the companies offered “commodity …

  1. Ole Juul

    Where is this going?

    Although this worries me I don't think it is all bad. It's inevitable that governments want to get involved with bitcoin, but this is just the beginning and at least it will offer some kind of protection, or discouragement of bad behaviour. I'm more worried about what comes next.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Where is this going?

      The exchange regulates the sale because you are buying selling contracts in $US to US residents

      It doesn't say anything about the freedom of bitcoins anymore than about the rights to own pork bellies

      1. Robert Helpmann??
        Childcatcher

        Re: Where is this going?

        And it stands in contrast to Judge Masumi Kurachi's take on the matter which is basically that BC is an intangible and therefor cannot be owned.

        1. DavCrav
          Holmes

          Re: Where is this going?

          "And it stands in contrast to Judge Masumi Kurachi's take on the matter which is basically that BC is an intangible and therefor cannot be owned."

          Because the two people live in different countries, and so use different sets of regulations?

          1. Robert Helpmann??
            Childcatcher

            Re: Where is this going?

            Because the two people live in different countries, and so use different sets of regulations?

            Yup. It is illustrative of the difficulty that legal systems and regulatory bodies (another contrast between the two) have in dealing with new technology. Also, I think this highlights some cultural differences between Japan and the US. As BC is by its very nature available anywhere there is an internet connection, it will be interesting to see where different countries have differing approaches and how they resolve them (or not).

    2. tmTM

      Where is this going?

      Taxation dear friend, taxation.

      Define it

      Regulate it

      Tax it

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In other words 'it's happening anyway, how can we milk some tax out of it?'

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Can I buy a vowel?

    Or do I have to fill out a form?

    1. jonathanb Silver badge

      Re: Can I buy a vowel?

      Yes, but if you want to buy a put option on the letter a, you need to fill in the forms.

  4. quattroprorocked

    Bitcoin discovers can't have cake and eat it

    Bitcoin wanted to be taken seriously as money, they can't start whining when it is.

    As to that Japanese Judge, he clearly missed out on his basic "what is money" lessons. Money has always been intangible. Coin etc is simply a representation, (try spending a few francs). How would he rule on a mining rights issue? the RIGHT to mine is an intangible, even if the ground under discussion is made of solid gold.

    1. Steve the Cynic

      Re: Bitcoin discovers can't have cake and eat it

      "Money has always been intangible"

      Go back and reread your history lessons. Modern *fiat*(1) currencies, by definition, are intangible, and coins and notes are just physical representations, as you say, but of the currency, not a commodity.

      However, historically, either the physical coins and notes were representations of a tangible good - the "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of five pounds" meant, historically, five pounds of silver, at a time when a pound coin was made of a pound of .925 ("sterling") silver, or they *were* the good in question. The silver in that pound coin (there are examples in a museum in the centre of Oxford - it is an effing big coin) *is* the currency, not a representation of the currency.

      It is only later that people started to make exchangeable currency, where the physical currency represents a quantity of the relevant commodity (silver, gold, blocks of salt, cowrie shells, future tax revenues, whatever) rather than being the commodity, and it is only much later still that we finally abandoned that idea.

      Much later.

      Like, try 1971.

      (1) The phrase "modern fiat currencies" contains a redundant element. All modern currencies are fiat.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Bitcoin discovers can't have cake and eat it

        Currency may or may not be intangible - but money is.

        The money may be represented by gold, currency backed notes or fiat but the monetary value still depends on someone willing to swap gold for something you can eat. The value is still dependent on people agreeing that gold has value.

    2. jonathanb Silver badge

      Re: Bitcoin discovers can't have cake and eat it

      For most of history, money was silver, and in fact in some languages, they have the same word for both.

  5. Lodgie

    Where on earth did you find the punch cards, or did you sneakily Photoshop the Bitcoin logo on a stock pic?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Owe money?

    Massive debt? dollar flaky? QE unsustainable? funds moving elsewhere?

    Try new Finger in that pie!™

  7. Stevie

    rules applicable to all participants in the commodity derivatives markets

    There are rules then.

    Wait, then how come 2008 ... ?

  8. Old Handle

    There's nothing in principle wrong with having reasonable regulation on Bitcoin. What does worry me a bit is that each government agency classifies it a different way, and it seems like they invariably choose to classify it in a way that comes under their regulatory power. This agency says it's a commodity, another agency (I forget which) says buying or selling Bitcoins constitutes transmitting money and falls under those rules (that one is really a stretch). The IRS says it's generic property for tax purposes. Etc.

    Clarity if good, but for the time being we've still got a weird hodge podge of rules, none of which were actually designed for something like this.

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