Are you avoiding tax, big tech firm? Not any more you won't, growl MEPs

Re: good luck with that

@AC

"Companies will try to game the system for as long as they get away with it because all of that means shareholder profit, but if they're faced with losing a whole market they'll pay - it's simply the less costly option."

Companies gaming the system? People want jobs and pressure the politicians who would prefer to have jobs and the money from a large business in their country (to pay the debts of the politicians and people). Why is it wrong for the company to pick the country that promises to take the least 'cut' from their earnings? Surely that is good business and provides the jobs/money that the country needs.

It only becomes an issue when govs spend even more and people want them to spend even more but the money doesnt exist. Then they all look around for people to take it from.

Re: good luck with that

> but if they're faced with losing a whole market they'll pay

They already have paid tax on the prince sums they already made. Things should only change going forward but who knows in Euroland (having to play under Euro rules is why Euro large caps have been destroyed by S&P 500 large caps since WW2). Again as you say this is more an EU vs Ireland (and a few others) than vs Apple. Yes Apple will play ball but as the poster above mentions probably the end result will be a lot more countries get a piece of the pie but my guess is over time the pie will actually diminish if the effective tax rate goes up because a lot of the money these companies are paying tax on are not on revenues generated in Europe. What these corporations do a lot of when dealing with other corporations is pay each other in the most tax friendly nation whenever possible, as well as borrowing money in high corporate tax rate countries (operating expenses, M&A, etc) and paying it back in low ones among many other tricks.

Re: good luck with that

@Ac

if they're faced with losing a whole market they'll pay - it's simply the less costly option.

That depends. One of the things it depends on is Googles view of whether it needs the EU more than the EU needs it. Sure, techies can use any other search engine effectively enough, but I can well imagine lost productivity as the masses try to figure out Bing or Yahoo as opposed to what they know. To far too many people, Google is "The Internet".

Another thing it depends on is how else they can turn that profit into something that isn't profit and therefore not taxable, but which allows profitability to rise in less hostile environments.

Re: Those companies aren't doing anything that....

So, we just need a small war.

Re: Those companies aren't doing anything that....

@Ken

Not quite so clear cut. Ireland was already attractive to many multinationals due to the low corporation tax. Bit of history.

It used to be 10% for the multinationals. somewhat higher for the Irish companies - all with the aim of attracting investment from the tech companies. Europe said that that was unfair and must be rectified - expecting the Irish government to raise the tax level applicable to the multinationals.

That would also have made it much closer to French levels - the chief moaning entity if memory serves correctly.

Instead - they lowered the rate for the national companies so that everyone paid 10% - the French had an apoplectic fit but could do nothing as the rate of taxation is a national matter not a European one.

The Irish even defended this to the death during the bailout - it was the one thing that they wouldn't give way on.

That Apple managed to drive it even lower to 2% would suggest that they have behaved aggressively so I call both sides at fault with the balance to be determined by someone else.

Re: upvoted..

Unfortunately for you, naughtyhorse, Tim Worstall is generally correct. At least he investigates things as per the current legal situation... That Europe may disagree and change the playing field after the fact (and then demand back taxes) is somewhat of a case of 'closing barn door after horse has bolted'.

But this is why accountants and tax lawyers still have jobs. The legal landscape where tax is concerned keeps changing and corporations (from 1-man bands to huge MNCs) have to keep up...

Re: I'm sure...

> Technically, no they didn't do anything wrong.

If their 'transfer pricing' didn't follow the rules then they may have!

Morally to my mind about half the profit should be declared in the country of sale and half in the USA I can see an argument for more of the profit to have been made in the USA but not for a third country (Ireland) that artificially has the sales routed through it. What the law says, the courts will decide.

Re: Where does ryanair flight to Dublin actually land?

I think the swedes or danes would have something to say about a shedload of ryanair planes full of refugees turning up out of the blue.