back to article Big, ugly, heavy laptops are surprise PC sales sweet spot

Things are so bad in the PC market that students of economics and physics are both probably keen to figure out just what's going on. But there's a singularity of sunshine in the market, says box-counter IDC, in the form of a surge in sales for big, ugly, heavy laptops, aka certified workstations. The “certified” is important …

  1. Charles Manning

    Why now?

    Blooming obvious. The price of these machines has fallen through the floor.

    General purpose laptops have also fallen, but not through any price sensitivity threshold. They fell through that threshold about a year or two ago and everyone who wanted one bought then. They're not going to throw out the old, and buy a new one now even though the price continues to fall. There's no advantage in a new one over a 2yo machine.

    Now the "certified workstation" grade machines have also dropped low enough that a whole raft more people will feel like buying these.

    IDC should hopefully (maybe I'm being too hopeful here) realise that once the gamers have their "certified" kit, they've blown their allowances and won't be buying again for a couple of years.

    Who are all the PC makers going to sell to in the interim?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why now?

      Who are all the PC makers going to sell to in the interim?

      Businesses...tablets are ok, but just don't hack it for a lot of people. It's now the case a laptop is cheaper than a desktop + monitor.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Why now?

      Gamers dont want certified workstations... the graphics drivers are optomised differently, the grahics hardware carries a premium price tag, and ECC ram does nothing for games.

    3. DiViDeD

      Re: Why now?

      "once the gamers have their "certified" kit, they've blown their allowances and won't be buying again for a couple of years."

      Speaking for myself, and most of the gamers I know, laptops, certified or no, are pretty damn useless for gaming. Also, once you have your workstation (workstation! Hah!) set up, it's time to start upgrading components, just to get a little bit of extra grunt.

      Serious gamers don't have an allowance, we have disposable income. And absolute bloody tunnel vision when it comes to spending it.

      2 out of 3 sons have developed the same outlook as me. I don't know whether to be proud or terribly afraid. As for Nathan, we don't talk about Nathan. Or his bloody Playstation.

      1. Vector

        Re: Why now?

        "Serious gamers don't have an allowance, we have disposable income. And absolute bloody tunnel vision when it comes to spending it."

        That tunnel vision might be your problem. Have you tried a gaming class laptop lately? I'll grant you that they don't have the grunt of a desktop system, but they have plenty 'nuff to play virtually everything out there, albeit, with the settings attenuated a bit. I've enjoyed gaming for decades, do quite a bit of it and for the last decade or so, have been happily doing it on laptops, which I can pack up and take with me to game anywhere I can find a power outlet.

        1. DiViDeD
          Trollface

          Re: Why now?

          @Vector, you make a very cogent and reasonable point, but let's face it, who wants to turn a graphics setting DOWN?

          Also, where do you put the illuminated case fans and rope lights?

          Can't have a gaming rig without cold cathode and blue lights, you know.

          1. Vector

            Re: Why now?

            I settle for custom coloring my illuminated keyboard and call it good. Thought about illuminating the fans but then I'd have to get a glass table!

    4. Jim 59

      Re: Why now?

      Home users replacing aged tower systems with "desktop replacement" laptops might have an impact.

      ...certain graphics intensive business applications, so aren't counted as workstations...

      I would be interested to know what these applications are. Can't think of any except for high end CAD/CAM/CAE.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why now?

        Editing multimedia of any type is another. Just look at the suggested hardware requirements to get an idea for on-site capabilities. And ECC helps keep your intact material. The ability to have multiple heavy duty programs? Priceless.

        Not anywhere my line of interest. I need serious modeling/simulation grunt here and in the field. Of further interest is handwritten note handling, 4G connect to my main cruncher (perhaps even distributed for quicker solver), and fast local access into standard parts catalogs, while doing the design, yada, yada. CAD/CAM/CAE/CASE are a small part of the process. Faster time to solution by having all your tools with you and doing on-site in the presence of the grunts who will use it (major buy-in aid), it's nice. I'm circling four of these right now. Decisions, decisions.

  2. Zog_but_not_the_first
    Holmes

    Quelle surprise.

    Some of us need to get some work done.

    1. Robert Grant

      Re: Quelle surprise.

      Some of us need to get some work done.

      I'll prove you wrong, just as soon as I work out which Macbook Pro case colour would best help me invent the next Facebook.

      *sips Starbucks coffee*

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Starbucks?

        Imposter.

  3. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    High spec Luggables are still too expensive

    I spec'd up a Lenovo Thinkpad a few weeks ago. The thing cam to more than £3000 not including VAT.

    This is past Apple price ranges.

    I use an upgraded HP8770W (17in/32Gbram/2TB SSD) Laptop for work. We had to keep on at HP to even think about selling it here in blighty. They eventually did about 6 months after the US. Now they don't seem to sell a Luggable in the UK.

    If the models aren't there then naturally they won't sell. This is straight out of the MBA 'how to kill something quietly' book (written by Dr Beeching of BR fame)

    With the news that IBMer's can now get Apple (is doomed) kit instead of Lenovo I was wondering if the 17in MBP might make a re-appearance?

    IMHO, for power developers Thin and light just don't cut it but it is getting harder to get a (top) branded luggable these days.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: High spec Luggables are still too expensive

      "I spec'd up a Lenovo Thinkpad a few weeks ago. The thing cam to more than £3000 not including VAT."

      They can do, but the spec is then massively past any Apple laptop. Spec for spec there is not a lot in it, though if you want it for the long term with upgrades, I suspect the Lenovo is a better bet. I also doubt many people are doing much with Solidworks on an MBP, and if that's your business £3000 for a laptop is peanuts (and you are reclaiming the VAT anyway.)

      But the story simply seems to be that workstation laptops are now good enough, and so are replacing workstation desktops. Which is unsurprising.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: High spec Luggables are still too expensive

        They can do, but the spec is then massively past any Apple laptop.

        I don't really think the article has anything to do with the Apple at all: it's just clickbait. I don't know anyone going from an MacBook Pro to an HP or a Thinkpad but I do know a few going the other way (mainly down to the poor quality of the Linux drivers).

        While there is no doubt about a market for MBP's which can take say 64GB of RAM, most people are happy enough with 16GB and a big SSD. That will let you run a heap of VMs and some form of CI for web or app work. Not necessarily suitable for modelling the weather or crunching wind tunnel data.

        As you say, there are other areas where the cost of the hardware pales in comparison with the cost of the software and developer time.

  4. Measurer

    CAD Portability

    AT a previous employer, the CAD engineers were upgrading to hefty (Dell I think) certified laptops back in 2006 ish. The ability to actually model on the fly (as opposed to just review lightweight cad models) when at a customers / suppliers site, or when on the shop floor and engineers are looking at how prototype assemblies are going together is a massive benefit to any company.

    You don't need the internet to do truly effective 'collaborative' development, if you have the tools at your fingertips and are prepared to travel and sit down with stakeholders to get the job done effectively.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Meh..

    For me at least, its got nothing to do with being certified, its just cause they are the only laptops with a decent gfx card that can support a dock.

    I was recently looking at a lightweight Dell with a UHD screen, 4GB gfx card - but the dam thing would not support a dock and didn't have a DisplayPort output, only HDMI 1.4 - So if I wanted to use my 30" 4K monitor, I'd have to have settled using HDMI @ 30hz.

    In the end I had to settle on a Precision workstation with a Quadro card, personally I would have preferred a GeForce.

  6. Mage Silver badge
    Boffin

    No surprise

    If you don't want a Mobile workstation, you might just get a tablet with keyboard cover.

    Unless you are setting up a call centre, you don't want an all in one Desktop, which are often really poor spec non-portable laptops.

    You really only want a conventional desktop (in last seven years maybe) if you have I/O card or many monitor or special disk requirements.

    Low spec laptops often only 1080 or even 768 vertical resolution. A lot of work needs 1200 or more. Not a hyper shiny screen for video.

    1. johnaaronrose
      Thumb Up

      Re: No surprise

      Just been wondering about buying a barebones Intel NUC and fitting RAM & SSD (i.e. no hard disk) at a cost of approx £200. It seems to me that this would be much faster than any laptop with a hard disk. Am I missing something?

      1. K

        Re: No surprise

        Interesting idea - I'd have thought these would be Atom based, but looking closer you can get one with an i7, though I doubt you'd get this for £200!

        1. johnaaronrose

          Re: No surprise

          Model I had in mind is N2820 Celeron processor though some people say that it is buggy. Memory is 8GB. SSD is 240GB: fine for me as I don't have many photos and don't store many videos on existing PC as I have them on a networked USB hard disk. I also use Ubuntu.

      2. Little Mouse

        Re: Intel NUC

        "Am I missing something?"

        A screen?

        1. johnaaronrose

          Re: Intel NUC

          I have a spare monitor, keyboard & mouse. I do also realise that even though the NUC range are small (approx 5 inches cube), that they are not as portable as a laptop, particularly as you also need a monitor, keyboard & mouse. The innuendo of 2 of the replies is that I'm stupid. Everyone can decide that for themselves.

          1. K

            Re: Intel NUC

            "The innuendo of 2 of the replies is that I'm stupid"

            The only issue I would personally have is the hassle of constantly replugging all the cables back in (power, keyboard, mouse, screen and any peripherals), but I'm bone idle and too in-love with my laptop dock.

            I'd say do whatever suits you..if it works, then its a success! I know people who have got server racks in their house, are they stupid or crazy? Nope! But I would never do it.

      3. Mage Silver badge

        Re: No surprise

        buying a barebones Intel NUC

        ... lack of portability?

  7. Steve Evans

    Hardly a shock...

    Lightweight "lappies" (sorry) are pretty expensive, and TBH, generally not used for much more than you could do on a tablet. If you really need to write a lot you'd probably want a better keyboard than a lot of lightweights have, so you'd have to throw a USB one of those in the bag too, and then you might as well just use a tablet with an OTG cable, or bluetooth.

    A "luggable" however, is a much more justifiable, and capable, machine.

    Personally I have no place for an expensive lightweight fashion accessory in my gadget collection... I've got a mobile phone with a 6" screen which handles most tasks... If that's not enough I've got a tablet. Thanks to the aforementioned OTG cable and a mouse, they handle Team viewer, MS Remote desktop, SSH. All from the contents of my coat pocket.

    If I need more, then it's probably compiling something, and that's where the i7 SSD powered luggable comes in.

    No space for a "toy" in there.

  8. BigFire

    Depends on your requirement.

    I have a choice of going ultraslim (one of those lightweight thinkpad) or ultra-beefy (HP 17") on my last round of company issue laptop. I opted for HP 17" because I got sick of sluggish computer and not enough screen space while working from home (hey, I'm not getting any younger, and my eye-sight, lasik corrected is still getting worse).

    I can always justify the extra extra weight as more exercise done per day I have to lug this heavy thingie.

  9. ps2os2

    Big power MACS are loosing?

    I am not an insider with Apple. But from an outsiders view there were (are?) three issues.

    1. Apple delayed the big power mac for a couple of years there by letting the portables get a sustained market Apple either intentional did this or stupidity (I don't know which)

    2. There was a pent up demand for desk tops (I have been putting off a purchase for a couple of years.

    3. The backlog was an idiots dream on how to market (and know) your market.

  10. Primegb

    Great option

    while lighter notebooks are need of the hour for basic business applications, higher end notebooks are more functional and can be a great business tool for higher end applications like solid works , cad cam, Corel , illustrator and even maya for that matter. To get things done onsite can be a very big advantage. But yeah their too heavy to lug around. Wish they could make these things sub 2 kg with all that power and yet a great battery life. I am sure they can do it down the line.

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