back to article OFFICIAL SCIENCE: Men are freezing women out of the workplace

As the Northern hemisphere languishes in summer temperatures, a new study has shown that office climate control systems are giving women the cold shoulder. Many office air-conditioning systems are locked down to avoid arguments about how hot or cold to have the building. In the 1960s and 1970s, studies were made to decide on …

  1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

    Temp difference also matters

    I was once installing stuff in Egypt a long long time ago and the IT/computer room/office was set to 18C when outside it was 35-40C. This room was mostly workstations and some photographic plotters, etc, not a data centre.

    They had to wear extra cloths / coats indoors and complained about fingers going numb. Despite being used to much colder in the UK I also found it uncomfortable when dressed for that sort of region so set the A/C controls to 25C as no one there felt they had the authority to do so. End result was a much happier work force and greatly reduced electricity bill!

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Temp difference also matters

      Below 20°C is going to be too cold for office work for most people. It's the typical kind of arrangement where the needs of the equipment are considered more important than those operating them.

    2. Dazed and Confused

      Re: Temp difference also matters

      When I started travelling extensively and visiting offices in lots of parts of the world I found it was always worth taking a range of office suitable clothing with me. There seemed to be a tendency, especially in the US (but not only) to set the inside temperature to be the opposite of the outside one. Phoenix in summer? office would be 18, Chicago in winter? office likely to be at least 25.

  2. Teiwaz

    Not at one place I worked...

    A.C was a retro-fit. The lady at the next desk to me complained she was cold, I was languishing in a dead space and it made me sleepy - would the boss let use switch places? No.

    1. Hollerith 1

      Re: Not at one place I worked...

      It seems a lot of modern offices can't get this right. I will be freezing, the chap or chapess next to me is broiling, or vice versa. I finally bring in either a small fan or a quiet, under-the-desk heater (kept from the eyes of Health and Safety) and sort myself out.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  3. Richard 81

    You can always put more clothes on to get warm

    ...but HR get grumpy if you take them off to cool down.

  4. AndrueC Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Regulations on building temperatures are responsible for 30 per cent of global carbon-dioxide emissions worldwide, and so getting this right is important.

    Advising companies to turn up the thermostat is unlikely to reduce global carbon-dioxide emissions worldwide ;)

    And you can always add clothes if you're cold. It's not always possible to remove them if you're hot.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Why not?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Common sense suggestions like that tend to be frowned upon in the office for some reason.

      In the office I work at we have a double issue, the lady who originally hails from a warmer climate in control of one of the thermostats so she always turns it off, and then even when we can get the damn air con turned on people open windows because "we are too hot right now" defeating the point of the air con altogether.

      Any attempts to remind people of how its meant to work is ignored, I blame the fact that they are the marketing department.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        re: I blame the fact that they are the marketing department.

        Sadly not. I work with programmers who don't understand that opening windows lets in more hot air and stops the air-con working.

        Not too bad at the moment, we have closable doors on individual offices. They want to go open plan when we move office though.

        Posted as A.C. because we're talking about A.C. :)

        1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

          Re: re: I blame the fact that they are the marketing department.

          Yabbut... in many cases the air conditioning doesn't condition the air; it just heats or cools what is already there (with some lesser or greater admixture of real air). Often an 'open window' breeze even if hotter than the nominal requirement is more comfortable than the managed air systems.

        2. AndrueC Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: re: I blame the fact that they are the marketing department.

          Sadly not. I work with programmers who don't understand that opening windows lets in more hot air and stops the air-con working.

          That reminds me of a discussion I had once on a forum. In the UK even in summer the temperature outside usually drops a lot at night. Even if it's been in the mid 20s during the day it's likely down to the mid-teens by 10pm and often a lot colder than the upstairs rooms of a house. So - does that mean that if you're using a portable air-conditioner to cool your bedroom it's better to leave windows open so that most of the replacement(*) air comes from outside rather than coming from the rest of the house?

          I think it does but one chap in that discussion was adamant that you should never allow outside air back in when cooling. He never explained why.

          (*)Because a portable AC has a hose that blows hot air out of the room. That causes negative pressure which will suck air back in from somewhere.

          1. chrisf1

            Re: re: I blame the fact that they are the marketing department.

            The sensible thing to do in that situation is move the portable aircon to fan only and blow air so that you exhaust the room air and bring in the cooler evening , night time air.

            Air changes and cooling the thermal mass is key to performance depending on your building structure and insulation levels but you should be able to change the room air pretty fast to the external temperature and slowly reduce the wall temperature down (sometimes called the pseudo constant - but that would irritate too many pedants. And don't get me started on 'coolth' units!)

            In buildings with decent insulated thermal mass this is used for pre-cooling too - bring the core temperature a few degrees below and use it as a heat sink in the day.

            Free air cooling has become much more widely used these days (including data centres).

            It is not correct that you should never use outside air in unless other air quality factors - dust , humidity etc were at play. Even then outside air is brought in, just in a carefully controlled way.

        3. Allan George Dyer
          Joke

          Re: re: I blame the fact that they are the marketing department.

          @AC - "programmers who don't understand that opening windows lets in more hot air and stops the air-con working"

          Ah, must be Microsoft loyalists. They don't understand, air conditioners are like computers, they don't work properly when Windows is opened.

          1. BuckeyeB

            Re: re: I blame the fact that they are the marketing department.

            I make my living by Microsoft as a developer. However, I find this quite funny.

            UP

            Brian

      2. Wade Burchette

        When I was in college, I worked for a friend in his HVAC business. One of his clients was a country club and it had a computer controlled system. Each office had a thermostat that was 100% controlled by the system's computer. Although it had controls, they were overridden by the computer. But the way the system worked, if a person adjusted the temperature up, as was often the case in the office full of ladies, then the thermostat would say it was warmer when, in fact, no adjustment had been made at all. It worked, nobody in office complained about being too cold.

  5. hplasm
    Coat

    If it's too hot-

    try blowing on it...

  6. g e

    "Also for the climate"

    Until winter when you're actually heating more.

    There's two sides to this coin...

  7. Extra spicey vindaloo

    I think it's more important to educate people that if you turn the AC up (lower the temperature) it takes an hour or so of freezing air to get the room down to that temperature. I have to fight with my co-workers to leave it alone and not constantly mess with it.

    1. gotes

      Yes. It infuriates me the amount of people who don't understand how a thermostat works. Set it to the temperature you want, not as high/low as it will go. It won't work any faster.

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
        Flame

        Yes. It infuriates me the amount of people who don't understand how a thermostat works. Set it to the temperature you want, not as high/low as it will go. It won't work any faster.

        I work in an engineering company - and still can't get people to do this. Then they leave the heater on for an hour, and then open a window because the office is too hot! Aaaaarrrrggghhhh!!!!

        If I murder them, but promise to compost the bodies, can I use the climate change act as my defence in court?

        1. fruitoftheloon
          WTF?

          Mr I Ain't Spartacus

          IAS,

          yup, please go ahead and do so, humanity as a whole will be the better for it...

          Also, I will contribute all of the spare change in my wallet to your defence fund (with a bit of luck, it may buy you a coffee), in the unlikely event of the relevant public prosecutor deciding to actually charge you.

          But do you realise the REALLY SCARY thing about people that can't get the 'thermostat thing'??, I mean fuk me, is it really that friggin' complicated?

          THEY WILL HAVE KIDS....

          /rantjokes

          1. TRT Silver badge

            Re: Mr I Ain't Spartacus

            Set fire to the bodies and say it was spontaneous human combustion. Ah! That must have been why they kept turning the AC up...

        2. Mark 85

          If I murder them, but promise to compost the bodies, can I use the climate change act as my defence in court?

          I'm not sure this will work as HR will just replace them with more idiots. Our work is never done... <sigh>

        3. iranu

          Work late one night. When everyone is gone, open it up and disconnect the wires. Be sure to set it to the correct temperature first. No-one will notice and you can sit back and laugh at the muppets.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Set it to the temperature you want, not as high/low as it will go. It won't work any faster.

        one of the PAs was doing this constantly, and it was bumping other people's offices up to 30C (in the winter, she seems to prefer 18 in the summer), in the end we solved the problem by installing another thermostat in her office (and didn't connect it to the HVAC system).

      3. Rick Brasche

        as we say around here

        "it's a thermostat, not a throttle!"

  8. Paul Shirley

    varies by nation

    We could always tell when the CEO made a visit to the UK office from his base in America when the thermostat went up to 25C+ and productivity dropped through the floor in the heat. Since he was usually there to meet visitors we were expected to smarten up to wearing shirts, why people sweating visibly was better than exposing arm flesh remains a mystery.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Set to a range

    It ought to be possible to configure a heating/cooling system to a range of temperatures rather than a single target temperature. You could then set it to 20-25 and it would heat when the temperature drops below 20, and cool when it goes above 25. I've not yet encountered a system that lets you do that explicitly, but they must exist, surely.

    1. AceRimmer

      Re: Set to a range

      Most heating systems operate some sort of Schmitt Trigger in order to stop the system constantly switching on and off.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Set to a range

        Most heating systems operate some sort of Schmitt Trigger in order to stop the system constantly switching on and off.

        You mean a hysteresis?

        /pedant :)

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Re: Set to a range

          Hysteresis.

          From Fr/Lat/Greek, hystera - womb.

          From Greek, -esis - process.

          Thus, a woman's way.

          1. Hollerith 1

            Re: Set to a range

            I guess a woman's way works pretty well, considering that you and our fellow and sister commentards all exist.

            1. TRT Silver badge

              Re: Set to a range

              Either that or, as Jonathan Ross would say, it's a feature of a womb thermostat.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Set to a range

            Hysteresis.

            From Fr/Lat/Greek, hystera - womb.

            From Greek, -esis - process.

            Thus, a woman's way.

            Given who usually ends up setting the thermostat that has the ring of truth about it, also because a normal well behaved man would gallantly defer to this.

    2. NorthernCoder
      Boffin

      Re: Set to a range

      They surely do.

      I work for a company in the building automation industry, and we have such products.

      You would simply set the Set Point to 22.5 degrees and the dead band to 2.5 degrees (although that is an unusually large dead band).

      This is of course not a thermostat, but a room (or zone) controller.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Set to a range

        "a room (or zone) controller" commonly called a thermostat.

        1. NorthernCoder
          Boffin

          Re: "a room (or zone) controller" commonly called a thermostat.

          To us, at my company at least, a thermostat is something which has two states; on or off (i.e. "not warm enough" or "warm enough" if it is set up for heating).

          Controllers are our devices which have a regulator (of PID type) for calculating a suitable output, proportional to the difference between set point and actual value.

          That is why I made the distinction, even if everyday people don't.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Set to a range

      I've not yet encountered a system that lets you do that explicitly, but they must exist, surely.

      They most certainly do exist, and the can work well, particularly if you have a building designed to maximise the benefits of passive heating and cooling (like the one I work in). Our Building Energy Management System (BEMS) has powered heating and cooling at its disposal, but within the normal range of temps will automatically open and close windows on different levels to control temperatures through passive airflow. Energy use is low, comfort is high, and this in a building built twenty four years ago

      But most office (and DC buildings) weren't designed in this way, and if they are in high density urban environments then passive cooling doesn't work as well due to urban heat island effects and sometimes due to poor external air quality. It can be done (eg The Gherkin), but anybody who knows the City will be aware that most of the buildings are drab, high density, actively heated and cooled prisons, reflecting the fact that the architects and their clients didn't care. Add in a cheap BEMS that does aim for a single figure temperature, and you have a recipe for discomfort and high costs. Retrofitting actively controlled passive ventilation is virtually impossible if the building isn't designed for it at the construction stage.

      A BEMS can be (and usually is) a large scale equivalent of a dumb domestic thermostat - so cheap and crap. A good one is a sophisticated multi-million pound private SCADA network, using extensive sensors and actuators, keeping temperatures in a controlled band, and linked into active heating and cooling that operates in a duty-assist role. The most advanced can even integrate a standby power system to minimise grid costs or sell power into the ancillary services power market, or to harvest the subsidies associated with on-building PV.

      As is always the way, the reason things aren't any different is because the executives have a tantrum if their offices are uncomfortable and that gets fixed, but they don't give a tinker's cuss about the peasants. The vast cost of prime estate property dwarfs the energy costs anyway, and they just HAVE to have a premium London office (or New York, SF, Frankfurt, Tokyo, et al), full of minions to justify their self importance. And that usually means speculatively built or legacy buildings, and all the vileness of the metropolitan environment.

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

        Re: Set to a range

        Things like chilled beams help as well, because you don't have to have cold air blowing on people - which is one of the things that makes them uncomfortable.

        One of the problems with the building services industry, is the insane way that procurement happens. As a client you order a nice building - and you get it designed by a consulting engineer. But then you put the job out to tender to the lowest bidder, who is usually the contractor who will often work out how much it will cost to build at zero profit (or even a slight loss). They will then expect to make their profit on saving money on the specified equipment. Some in discounts on original quoted price, but if they've been aggressive in tendering for the job, then they'll substitue for the cheapest crap they can get away with.

        The clients know this, and yet still pick the lowest bidder. Then wonder why all their plant keeps breaking down.

        The trend is even worse now. Often, to save costs, the project will be design and build. So you pay peanuts to the consulting engineer to give you a 'reference spec', which they don't care about andjust throw together. This should provide the minimum that the contractor must produce, but the consulting engineers are often not paid to defend the spec during the building process. You're then entirely relying on the honesty and solvency of the contractor that you choose. While paying them the minimum amount you can get away with. One doesn't need to be an expert in psychology to work out how this often ends up...

      2. fruitoftheloon
        Pint

        @Ledswinger: Re: Set to a range

        Ledswinger,

        thanks for the info, jolly interesting to read!

        Our house (in Devon), is 16th century with cob walls (i.e. 2-3 feet thick), with an extension built to then current regs about 10 years ago.

        Many of our friends/family that visit/stay (who typically live in 'modern' houses) often comment how it feels so much 'nicer' and that it is very stable temperature wise (I do not know the proper term for that).

        Also it is lovely and warm in the winter and delightfully cool inside - regardless of the outside temperature.

        Also when our little lad has been unwell, and I have looked after him in his bedroom (new part of the house), I am ALWAYS much thirstier than when I kip in our bedroom (old part of the house).

        This can be a little more complicated than some people think eh?

        Cheers,

        jay

  10. dan1980

    "Skirts are cooler than trousers"

    Quite so. I used to work in an office that was about 80% female (I was the in-house IT) where men had to wear a shirt and tie at all times.

    The women, on the other-hand, were able to wear thigh-length skirts (no minis) and what amounted to singlets and thongs. Or, as they insisted: "tops" and "open-toed shoes".

    The result was that the men, forced to wear long-sleeve shirts buttoned right to their throats, trousers and closed shoes were constantly uncomfortable and sweating.

    Thermostat policies should be set to accommodate those staff required to wear the most clothes - regardless of gender. If you have an office where sales staff are required to wear suits but IT can wear whatever they like then you set it to make sure the sales staff are comfortable. Others can always put on more clothes.

    It's not very conducive to work if some of your staff are sweating in their seats and aren't allowed to take off their ties.

    1. MrXavia
      Coat

      You could have come into work wearing a skirt, shirt and open toed shoes, if they had complained, sue for sexual discrimination :-D

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

        This is where you loudly declare your scottish heritage, and come in wearing your kilt.

        1. Omgwtfbbqtime
          Flame

          @IAS

          Have you worn a kilt? Trousers are much cooler - even in October it was a definite case of the Bettys in a kilt.

          (For those unaware of the spoonerism Betty Swallocks - shame on you!)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        You could have come into work wearing a skirt, shirt and open toed shoes, if they had complained, sue for sexual discrimination :-D

        Is that known as the Eddie Izzard approach? :)

      3. Dr. G. Freeman

        Doesn't work.

        Went into work in a skirt* due to heat, told to go home and change. Wasn't paid for the two hours it took to do that.

        Human Remains said "as you have identified as male on our diversity forms, you have to wear identifiably male attire".

        Tried the sexual discrimination angle, got me punted to another department, and surprisingly overlooked for any of the cool projects that get assigned.

        *It was the girlfriend's (at the time- now she's Mrs Freeman). surprisingly comfy.(both the skirt and the wife ;-) )

        1. Hollerith 1

          Who's male attire?

          Dress like a Masai warrior: a cloth wrapped around your loins and over one shoulder.

          Dress like a Scot: kilt over thin cotton sark, and ghillies.

          Dress like a Maori: piupiu (short tunic) and bare feet.

    2. Novex
      Joke

      "skirts are cooler than trousers, after all"

      IMHO, they only look cooler on women. Skirts on men do NOT look cool, even on Eddie Izzard. I might make an exception for kilts, but they're borderline as far as I'm concerned and only the Scots can get away with them ;)

      1. A K Stiles
        Pint

        Kilts for the Scots

        I would also add that a proper (full-weight) kilt is in no way cooler than trousers, even if you are attired in the 'traditional' fully-ventilated fashion!

        It's a regular occurrence in this place that I'll be sitting at my desk trying not to break into a full sweat (open-necked shirt and trousers), whilst the lady a couple of desks away from me is bemoaning the cold in 3 layers of cardigan whilst reaching for the gloves - which obviously improves the quality of the typing.

        If the office were set for my comfort it'd be around 18/19°C (around 65F for the left-pondians), and the textiles industry would be doing very well out of my colleagues.

        Icon for one of the better ways to cool down.

  11. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Boffin

    Vague memories of systems lectures

    hysteresis, and learning that some buildings have a response time of days ....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Vague memories of systems lectures

      learning that some buildings have a response time of days

      Ah yes, thermal mass. One of the reasons you have to keep heating older mansions in the winter, but also why they are so nicely cool in summer.

  12. Tom 7

    Many years ago the ministry for something or other

    produced a poster showing how (men I think) were at different temperatures in the work environment.

    I find most offices too hot. I feel woozy. When I used to smoke popping out for a fag improved ones efficiency enormously. I used to think its was the fags!

    Our school was also freezing in winter - but got pretty good results. When I've been to pick the kids up and get there early they all look half asleep in their warm cozy classrooms.

  13. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Preferred temperature

    25°C (77°F) verses 22°C(spelling of versus is the author's)

    I doubt very much that there is a three degree differential for similarly clothed people. 25°C is almost certainly uncomfortably warm for both men and women at work. Women do tend to feel the cold more, partly down to what they're wearing – bare ankles will make you feel the cold faster – and partly down to physiological factors such as muscle mass and the way subcutaneous fat is distributed. The amount you move makes a big difference. Walk around for 5 minutes every hour and you'll probably be able to knock 1°C off the thermostat.

    One solution that has been touted is mini IR heaters for individuals: http://www.economist.com/news/technology-quarterly/21615065-one-way-keep-warm-heat-people-rather-expending-energy-heating

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Only 16 subjects

    Nice to the register has adopted all the scientific rigmarole of the Daily Mail before publishing a scientific (cough) paper. I'd like to see this study conducted in the middle east where women are in full burkas, I think we may find the results somewhat reversed.

    Move along Daily Saud readers only short skirts and semi clad ladies to see here.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Only 16 subjects

      I suspect you'll find the burka keeps them cooler in the sun, and I doubt they wear much, if anything, underneath it.. You may notice the men in the desert are also covered head to toe, and cover their faces when not talking...Protecting skin and keeping cool would have all been the original reason for the clothing in the region...

      When I see women covered up in the UK I just think how badly educated they must be to still cover themselves up in a country where you NEED to expose skin every day during summer just to get enough sun to fill up your Vitamin D reserves for the year!

      Get rid of those shorts and skirts, lets turn the whole country into Nudists!

      1. Hollerith 1

        Re: Only 16 subjects

        Goirls in traditonal households (Islam) int he UK do suffer a vitamin D deficiency. It's been known about for some time.

        Women wear clothing under the burka -- they aren't in a nightie or anything. Once they are home, they remove the burka and are then still fully clothed.

        Having fashioned for myself an outfit of layers, not unlike Bedouin males, for coping with a trip in he desert, just to see if it would work, I found it did, amazingly well. The sweat gets wicked away and someone the layers of cloth that insulate in winter insultate you, along the lines of adobe walls, in the heat.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No study was necessary...

    ... it's a well known fact in every office - or any other place - where there is at least one woman.

    It's also well known where there are people used to keep their home thermostats at 25° even in winter so they can watch TV in underpants like Homer Simpson.

    I had to fight in many offices in Winter where people stubbornly try to keep tropical temperatures - as if wearing a sweater instead of a t-shirt will make you believe it's really Winter...

    I'm glad now I have my own office so I can have 20° in Winter and about 23-24° in Summer - luckily I don't have to wear a tie or suit unless needed - yet I never wear t-shirt and short trousers.

  16. RonWheeler

    Why?

    Why is the headline

    'OFFICIAL SCIENCE: Men are freezing women out of the workplace'

    and not

    'OFFICIAL SCIENCE: Women are overheating men out of the workplace'

    ?

    1. Hollerith 1

      Re: Why?

      Why is the headline "OFFICIAL SCIENCE"?

      Or "bad heating and cooling systems pissing off at least half of any given workforce"?

    2. Steven Roper

      Re: Why?

      It's called clickbait.

      It worked on me too. I thought it would be some feminist ranting about the patriarchy raping women with thermostats, so I came in here spoiling for a fight. But no, it's just commentary about men and women reacting differently to office temperatures. But a headline like that made me look, and made you look, and made us both comment, so it did its job. Clickbait.

  17. fruitoftheloon
    FAIL

    Yeah right....

    Folks,

    granted this rant is based on sample size even smaller than this 'study', I once worked in the head office office of a FTSE100 company in London, our team was adjacent to part of the marketing team, one of the nice, pleasant, pretty (but not terribly bright) lasses in the marketing team was regularly complaining about how it was always too cold.

    After more subtle hints didn't achieve much, I pointed out that us chaps were wearing suits etc, she was wearing a pretty and thin little skirt and a little vest top thingy; that almost sank in; then I suggested she might want to put more clothes on...

    The various folk nearby (of both sexes) found it highly amusing...

    Cheers,

    jay

  18. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    OTOH

    SWMBO frequently (see below) complains of being too warm when I think the weather's OK.

    That's about 2 days a year.

  19. TheProf
    Flame

    Wear suitable clothing

    This was an item on the BBC radio 4 Today programme.

    If I remember it correctly one of the researchers said that clothing was the difference. In the tests both male and female wore the same clothes and there wasn't any disagreement about the 'right' temperature.

    (iPlayer isn't showing today's Today at the time of writing so I can't check on this. Time of the item was about 7:50 (but I can't check etc.))

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Pick a number - stick to it. Problem I find is Aircon wars, as people in different parts of an office wage war over what is too hot or too cold. Generally the gentlemen in the office have long since bowed out of the war due to the abuse received from female colleagues when it's "TOO COLD" and simply sit there accepting the never ending varying temperatures that tend to live in the roasting category.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IMO about 18 degrees C is about right. I've experienced working in a place where Management stupidly bumped the temperature up to 28 degrees simply because a few were complaining of still being cold at lower temperatures, and this in a building without proper air conditioning, so it made the air bone dry and any particulates stayed suspended in the air causing problems for those wearing contct lenses. My protests that heat prostration was making some of us (particularly me) ill and making it nigh on impossible to work fell ondeaf ears. I ended up off workfor a considerable amount of time due to stress as a result. (I used to work for a city council in the middle of England. I still have occasional nightmares about it over a decade later).

    I can recall when I first started work how common it was for people to even wear coats inside in colder weather, and it astounds me how many selfish b******s these days, since the introduction of a minim legal temperature in offices, now insist that heating be cranked up rather than they go to the trouble of putting a cardigan or jacket on, never mind the distress that's caused to overheating colleagues.

    If the governemt were to legislate a maximum 20 degrees temperature in offices I bet it'd have a beneficial effect on productivity, and the general health of the populace (a reduction in asthma for one thing). Putting a maximum of 15 degrees on trains in winter would help, too - the wretched train operators don;t seem to understand that people dress for the weather and when on the daily commute often can't take tehir coats off when they get on, it;s too packed, so then they broil.

    1. Phuq Witt
      Flame

      Some Like it Cold

      "...IMO about 18 degrees C is about right..."

      Spot on.

      In my last job I'd set the thermostat to 18°C, only to have the woman I worked with shove it onto 24°C, the minute my back was turned. I'd be sweltering in a T-shirt and she'd be sitting with a woolly jersey on. In the end we compromised on 20°C which, while not ideal, was 'not-quite-as-uncomfortable' for us both.

      Also agree with the comments about 'selfish' people who should put more clothes on, if they're cold. I find being too hot really, really unpleasant. Sitting there feeling your face flushing red and sweat trickling down your back, worrying if you're going to smart 'whiffing' a bit –just because some other fecker doesn't want to look slightly less stylish by putting a jersey on.

      The gender thing is interesting though. I've already mentioned my [female] work colleague above. At home, it's the same scenario. I never have the heating on, even in winter, and am usually fine with a T-shirt on or, if it's a really cold day, maybe a sweatshirt. The missus tends to go into semi-hibernation mode, sitting on the sofa with a throw rug wrapped round her shoulders, complaining about the cold.I used to think she was just being soft, but maybe there is something in this gender difference, after all.

      I also think modern heating systems have a lot to answer for. When I was a nipper we had a coal fire. If you were too cold you sat nearer to it. If you were too warm you moved further away. So everyone could find their own 'sweet spot' in the room. Now, with central heating and AC everywhere we're all forced into accepting a one-size-fits-all compromise temperature, that evidently doesn't please anyone.

      [And, as a final aside, I've done the 'kilt thing' many a time in the summer and even to work on a couple of occasions. All I can say is that the way a lot of women behave towards you when you wear a kilt would have a bloke sacked and probably facing sexual assault charges, if the genders were reversed.

      It's definitely one law for people who don't have dangly bits in their skirts and another law for those that do!]

  22. theOtherJT Silver badge

    Might explain why we have no climate control in here...

    I mean, you can't be accused of sexist climate policy when the policy is - and I quote: "The building management system maintains the internal temperature between 15 and 30 degrees at all times." with a footnote to the effect that if it's hotter than 35 degrees outside they ain't making no promises.

    In other words, "Freezing in the winter, baking in the summer"

  23. dajames

    Most AC can't hack it anyway

    At the last big open-plan office I worked in -- about 80 of us in one large space -- we had the aicron set to 22C. On one day when the outside temperature was 25C the actual temperature in the office was 29C.

    It turns out that when the office was built the aircon was spec'd to remove the heat from for about 80 people sitting at desks ... we had about 80 people and about 120 compters: The sales/marketing people each had a snazzy laptop and we engineers each had two insanely over-spec'd deskside towers.

    So while the aircon was spec'd to remove the roughly 8kW of heat generated by 80 human bodies, we were actually generating something like five times as much.

    Add to that the fact that aircon systems may cool the air, but they generally recirculate most of it and don't bring in much fresh oxygen. It's a wonder any of us managed to stay awake.

    1. MrXavia

      Re: Most AC can't hack it anyway

      "Add to that the fact that aircon systems may cool the air, but they generally recirculate most of it and don't bring in much fresh oxygen. It's a wonder any of us managed to stay awake."

      This is the reason I prefer old buildings with normal heating/windows that open wide...

      Get a decent cross breeze and its lovely to work, in the winter, crank up the heating, and you can always open a window for a few minutes if the air gets stuffy..

      I hate working anywhere that has no opening windows...

      Last office I was in had under-floor air con, the engineers used to remove the vents, leaving large holes in the floor, just to try and get a bit more air flowing...

    2. Paul Shirley

      Re: Most AC can't hack it anyway

      In one of my brief stints working on-site one of the senior devs knocked a hole in the outside wall of his private office to vent a portable evaporative cooler. Then ran it 24hrs/day but couldn't work out why his room was the hottest place in the building.

      I can't remember how many days we waited before asking him if he'd ever filled the water tank ;)

  24. Craigness

    Put some clothes on

    I saw some misandrist articles on this subject recently, so I assume it's the latest feminist battlefront. The gist was that women with bare arms are feeling oppressed by the temperature being suited to men who have to wear long sleeves and ties. If the temperature was turned up to suit the women they would be oppressed by the smell of the men's sweaty armpits instead. Just put some clothes on, ladies - that's the only way we can all be comfortable whilst retaining some dignity. Not that dignity is high on the agenda for the women pushing this as an issue...

  25. Mark 85

    The temperature battles rages on...

    We had VP that used to complain about the server room being too cold.. yes, a she and she was taking visitors in there. After about a month, we suddenly started getting temperature alarms on a regular basis from the server room. One of the IT types noted that it happened on days we had "visitors". The lady was coming in early and re-setting the thermostat in the server room. Once we figured it out, a memo came down from the CEO about locking down the server rooms from all visitors and those "not required to enter the room" and also locking down the thermostats. Our server room is now a good place and a great place to hide out when a certain VP goes on a rampage.....

  26. Bucky 2

    Fashion choices

    Are we so sure it's a metabolism difference, and not just clothing? I'm skeptical.

    Men always wear sleeves of SOME kind, pants that go all the way down to the ankle, and then socks to keep the ankles covered as well.

    Before we leap to some kind of fundamental temperature difference between the sexes, let's even out the dress code differences. If I wore open-toed shoes, and had bare legs and shoulders, one would assume I was a surfing instructor, not an office worker.

  27. Stevie

    Bah!

    Well, they could simply put on a cardigan.

    What?

  28. martinusher Silver badge

    Whatever will they think of next?

    They put covers over thermostats to prevent people fiddling with them, not to prevent arguments. Its not a great sexist thing, either -- its naff office HVAC systems where one thermostat is shared between many offices so one office bakes while others freeze (or vice versa).

    My (female) wife likes things cold. Really cold. Riding with her in a car is an invitation for frostbite. She's also a physicist, so when she encounters a thermostat with a locked cover she doesn't moan and whine about it, she shines a desk lamp on it. Works a treat.

    (Naff HVAC systems, locked thermostats, people who are far to fond of whacking up the A/C because they're not paying for it. A whole multitude of reasons for freezing and I never realized it was a combination of latent sexism and probably a spot of microaggression. You live and learn.)

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Because

    someone has to make the sandwiches...

  30. Captain Scarlet Silver badge

    Hate Air Cons

    Where I work we were to late to notice the bleeding "master" controls were placed in the comms room and that they wanted all the panels locked out, this leads to lynch mobs when people get to hot or cold.

    I've now worked out during summer to place them on automatic at 22C and not to make them blow downwards (As the people underneath tend to want to kill you), during winter heat only (They are our only form of heat anyway) and point down with max fan speed at 24C.

    If not you have to tell people to stop turning off the units (Why is everything apart from power locked out >_<) and to be patient as it takes around an hour for the temperature to adjust.

  31. Stevie

    Bah!

    I once had an office facilities manager yell at me for an open window in the middle of summer (in Manhattan). I had not opened the window in question, but was nearest to it in terms of who got yelled at.

    "When you open the windows it makes the A/C blow hot air" he screamed.

    "You mean it makes the A/C go into overdrive and freeze up blowing cold air" I shot back.

    "No, it bows hot air when the windows are open" he yelled.

    "That explains why we freeze in here every winter. You have the A/C installed backwards" I yelled back.

    It is hard sometimes to remember this country once put six men on the moon.

  32. veti Silver badge

    "Regulations on building temperatures are responsible for 30 per cent of global carbon-dioxide emissions worldwide"

    Err... no. Just no. This claim not only fails the smell test, it reeks.

    In the first place, only about one-third of CO2 emissions are related to power generation at all. So you're basically claiming that more than 90% of all electricity generated is used for air conditioning. That's - wrong.

    In the second place, while some 30% of electricity in the US is used for indoor temperature control - the US is an outlier in this respect. Other countries have milder climates, better building codes, more efficient technologies, hardier people, or some combination of these.

    A more realistic figure would be "well under 10%".

  33. WatAWorld

    The headline should be OFFICIAL SCIENCE: Women are frying men out of the workplace"

    "temperature controls take as their base point a 40-year-old man weighing 70kg (11st or 154 pounds)"

    According to the US government's CDC, today the average weight of a woman is 166 pounds,12 pounds less than the average for men back in the 1960s when the standard temperature was set.

    The average American woman is now the same weight as the average 1960s man. Modern American women are an average 166.2 pounds, while the typical man in the 1960s was 166.3 pounds.

    The average weight of an American man is now 195 pounds (88 kg).

    So the headline should be OFFICIAL SCIENCE: Women are frying men out of the workplace"

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