back to article WHOA! Windows 10 to be sold on USB drives – what a time to be alive

Truly these are magical days: Microsoft has confirmed that Windows 10 will indeed be sold on USB thumb drives rather than just on optical discs, confirming internet mumblings that have been current for some time. Over on Amazon.com, pre-order pages show that the operating system will be available on media other than DVDs. A …

  1. hplasm
    Thumb Up

    Excellent marketing opportunity!

    Not just a dvd in a cereal box, but now it can be a usb stick in a Kinder egg *

    *Not available in US...

  2. elDog

    And, optionally free of malware (BadUSB, etc.)

    For an additional charge the vendor will certify that only their Goodware is on your stick.

    Perhaps this has been fixed but I thought inserting someone elses hard disck into your machine was a bit sketchy.

    1. the_voice_of_reason

      Re: And, optionally free of malware (BadUSB, etc.)

      Installing an OS from a stick is as sketchy as DVD, no difference if it's already been compromised

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 10 with permanent spyware (erm, I mean 'feedback') and no control over updates... Hell no, now even Windows 8 looks great

    1. GregC

      Re: 'now even Windows 8 looks great'

      Let's not get carried away.... 10 looks pretty sucky, but not that bad!

      1. Mark 85
        Meh

        Re: 'now even Windows 8 looks great'

        Let's not get carried away.... 10 looks pretty sucky, but not that bad!

        At least it wasn't compared to Vista. That's a good start....

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 'now even Windows 8 looks great'

        It doesn't look better, either. I've been using it for almost a week and noticed only individual DPI (for multiple monitors) and half-baked task view/virtual desktops. Everything else is the same as in 8.1

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 'now even Windows 8 looks great'

        Stay away from the Microsoft account and you'll be fine.

        It's that wench Cortana... 'learning' about you when you allow her to. Go away Cortana, I don't want an intimate relationship with you.

        1. dotdavid

          Re: 'now even Windows 8 looks great'

          I always thought that GLaDOS is a far more appropriate AI personality for Windows than Cortana.

    2. the_voice_of_reason

      Insiders Only

      That spyware is only on the insider editions. It reports back to M$ for bugfixes etc. Just another nothing story I'm afraid.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Insiders Only

        It's in RTM editions (Home, Pro and Enterprise) too

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Accounting

    I like this MS accounting.

    USB stick = $2

    plus

    OS dumped on your box = free (unless you add the cost of the download)

    equals

    $199.99 (or should that be Profit)

    1. Florida1920

      Re: Accounting

      $199.99 (or should that be Profit)

      Yes, but you get a lifetime's (the products, not yours) supply of security patches for FREE.

      Whether you want 'em or not.

      1. the_voice_of_reason

        Re: Accounting

        By that logic all software should be free. Heck it's only time they put into it. I'm sure you don't charge for yours right?

        1. obadiahrobert

          Re: Accounting

          OS X has been free since OS X Mavericks. Of course, Apple sells hardware, Microsoft sells software. That is why I like Apple, great OS, great computers.

      2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
        Alert

        Re: Accounting

        If MS follow the Apple model then the lifetime of W10 will be around 12 months.

        But.... you say.... What about all those businesses that are on Windows 7 (if they are lucky that is)?

        My answer is:- Do MS even care about businesses with 24/36/48/60 month upgrade cycles any longer?

        As I see it, their plan is to get everyone onto the latest OS ASAP and then hit everyone with the subscriptions or else (like Adobe) tactic.

        Yeah, I'm a sceptic but IMHO W10 is not far from becoming septic (like Vista)

        1. Archaon

          Re: Accounting

          Steve Davies 3: "My answer is:- Do MS even care about businesses with 24/36/48/60 month upgrade cycles any longer?"

          Not to be a pedant, but that's a question. To which my answer is that El Reg published a story yesterday about Windows 10 end of support date. I can't remember the exact date, but I believe it was 2020 for mainstream support and 2025 for extended support - much the same as most modern-ish Windows operating systems and hardly an indication that they don't care about longer business cycles.

          Unlike Apple, Microsoft's core customer base is organisations, not consumers. Although they may be moving towards a more incremental "Apple style" release cycle, there's no way they'd be able to move to a shorter "Apple style" support model.

          That said I would not be surprised to see it put into a subscription model in the near future (with "free upgrades"). Another thing I could see is support for Home versions to be restricted to say 3 years, with only Pro or higher versions qualifying for the typical 10 years of support we've seen in the past.

    2. Archaon
      Facepalm

      Re: Accounting

      Ivan4: "$199.99 (or should that be Profit)"

      I'd say their accounting is considerably better than yours. For example:

      Approximately 120,000 employees = free (unless you add the cost of salaries and benefits)

      Thought as much.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    High volume install DVDs are presumably made by a quick pressing action. USB sticks will take longer to fill and then verify. Visions of the old banks of tape duplicating machines.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Each DVD has to be burned. They just burn them at very fast rates.

      USB using vs3 have very high copy rates. They will just drop an ISO on them. It will actually be FASTER to create the USB and will probably result in a higher success rate than DVDs.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Have you ever been to an optical disc pressing plant. There's a reason mass-produced opticals are described as being "pressed": they literally press a metallic disc with the pits and so on, much like they did with phonograph records. Then the protective underlayer goes on top (last I checked, they press the discs upside-down). Anyway, they can do this faster than any burner can hope to achieve (like a disc every few seconds). Why would the discs have to be burned individually?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Each DVD has to be burned."

        That only happens for very low volumes - usually from "home-made" sources. Commercial volumes are mechanically pressed like vinyl.

        You should be able to see the difference. A pressed DVD or CD has an even silver colour to the playing side. A burned one has a distinct colour, usually blue-ish - and you can see the outer silver band where the recording had not filled the whole disk blank.

      3. ecofeco Silver badge

        My bad.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_(8optical_media)

        I had confused replication with duplication. Thanks for the heads up.

  6. Stephen Leslie

    I think in some markets DVDs will be available

    It's not quite clear what's going on, there's talk that DVDs are to be sold in some markets, USB sticks in the U.S. and so on.

    There is the concern that USB sticks can be tampered with, isn't there?

    1. Charles 9

      Re: I think in some markets DVDs will be available

      I think the USB move is meant to accommodate laptops and other systems with no optical drives.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I think in some markets DVDs will be available

      I believe OEM versions of Windows 10 will be in good ol' DVDs. Costs must be kept low.

      The USB drives only come in the gimmicky boxed retail versions.

  7. Velv

    I think Windows 95 was the last time I got official media from Microsoft. Since then it's been downloads and you prepare your own install media.

    1. Khaptain Silver badge

      Agreed and personally I prefer downloading the iso's with MD5 checksums to match...

      I can easilly begin to imagine the local markets stalls selling USB Windows "Ten" sticks that contain little else but the latest drive encrypting virus or a load of porn for a fiver.....

      1. ZSn

        SHA1 at the very least surely?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Te-he

        There are markets in the Middle East already doing that. $20 a pop was the going rate a couple of weeks ago.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Linux

      "I think Windows 95 was the last time I got official media from Microsoft."

      Me too. Since then I now use emerge, apt, yum, zypper, pacman and friends. Can't say I miss anything from my former life of grime.

      1. P. Lee
        Linux

        I wonder if you can PXE-boot off an ISO image served over http or smb or tftp or nfs yet...

        It must be horrible to be a Windows admin!

        1. Khaptain Silver badge

          @P.Lee

          Is this what you are looking for...

          https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc722358%28v=ws.10%29.aspx

          It must be horrible to be intellectually challenged :-)

          [The OS is not as much of a problem as the persons behind the keyboard...] Personally I would suggest the people use both systems and get the best of both worlds...

  8. CanadianMacFan

    Mac OS X

    Apple tried this in 2011 with Lion and they stopped it fairly quick. But then they were charging a large premium for buying it on a USB stick. Now it's all downloads through the store.

    1. Neil Alexander

      Re: Mac OS X

      Apple didn't really need to provide USB media anymore because around about 2011 was probably the same time that they added the EFI Internet Recovery to Macs and started providing OS X upgrades through the Mac App Store.

      1. Sebby

        Re: Mac OS X

        Even when Apple did supply the sticks, they emulated USB DVD-ROM drives; hideously ironic considering what they (and the App Store) were supposedly replacing.

        It'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the Wintel scene though. I wonder if M$ will also deliver read-only media, and how the various quirky PC BIOSes will cope. I expect the demand for DVD will still be there for the machines that don't USB-boot, or do so in a way not compatible with the drives being put out. On the plus side we might see more uniformity in BIOSes.

  9. bazza Silver badge

    Just like the good old days

    You get your software comes on this ROM chip thingy that has no legs on it that you plug into a socket and you turn it on and eventually <bing bong> you computer is up and running and then you do this weird 'install' thing that hardly seems necessary really and instead of getting a good old fashioned BASIC prompt you get this strange cartoonish picture on the TV with an arrow that moves around everytime the cat chases that mouse thing and its a devilish job getting the old cassette player with a data tape working these days.

    Going back to my BBC Micro.

  10. moxberg

    No forseeable shortage

    The folks in Redmond have stocked themselves with plenty of USB sticks, more than 250 pcs. for Europe alone.

  11. Paul Crawford Silver badge

    Is this a "run anywhere" live USB stick, or just a copy you have to install and separately 'activate' on any PC you wish to use it on?

    And how do you make a back-up copy, is it just a 'dd' style operation or will these sticks have some anti-copy arrangement?

    Of course, other OS have had this for years and no license restrictions, so lets see how the arguments stack up.

    1. Teiwaz
      WTF?

      Damn good question...

      > "Is this a "run anywhere" live USB stick, or just a copy you have to install and separately 'activate' on any PC you wish to use it on?"

      The most obvious question, and I had to scroll down more than half the comments to see if anybody had asked/answered it.

      Personally I'd like to see the former. I might actually buy one if I'd could run 'windows on a stick', as I'd certainly never install it (as I usually want a long stick in hand before I'd touch it) - although $199 seems steep, and the 'home' version would probably seem crippled after 15 years on linux, but it might do for all those little things (read: companies ) that I can't interact with on linux.

      My experience tells me the latter is more likely however. What's more, it'll likely wipe any other Os already on your system as it installs itself in it's arrogance.

      1. Griffo

        Re: Damn good question...

        The "run off the USB Stick" is called Windows To Go. It's been available since oh, 2011. It has required certain USB sticks though to ensure performance.

        This new info is likely just a case of replacing the DVD for retail copies. You've been able to download the ISO and use the Windows7 USB tool to make your own USB build drive since 2009.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm sorry but can I get it on (back of a fag packets maths, 3gb/1.2mb) 2500 5 1/4 inch floppy disks?

    If not then I'm just not interested. I think I'll stick with MS-DO3 6.22 though I still think 3 1/2 inch disks are the work of satan, I never upgraded because 6.66 is the number of the beast.

    1. Khaptain Silver badge

      Thought for the day : "The disk media is not recognized, it may not be formatted"

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        >Thought for the day : "The disk media is not recognized, it may not be formatted"

        ...but why was it always disk 34/36

    2. tirk
      Coat

      Floppy disks?

      Some of us remember installing software from punched cards!

  13. Charles Manning

    So....

    Can you take the USB stick out after it has booted or is this also a dongle?

    Once they've delivered a USB stick, it is trivial to make that the next step.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Wondering about that too

      Windows on a USB stick. Practical, for sure, better read speeds than a DVD for certain, but a basic USB stick is eminently copyable.

      Given that you have to pay for these sticks (instead of downloading it for free on your PC), that has to mean that the USB stick has some form of DRM protection to prevent it being copied, otherwise they won't be selling many and we'll see the ISO on Pirate Bay the day after they start selling them.

      Which we probably will see anyway.

      1. Khaptain Silver badge

        Re: Wondering about that too

        There is no point in avoiding the copy as the authentication is usually done using the eponymous MS 25 digit "Licence key".. I very much doubt that they will allow full copies to be installed without the Licence Key being supplied from somewhere.

        Obviously in the case of an upgrade I would presume that there will be a routine which verifies if the existing hard disk already has W7 or W8 and then uses some logic to determine if the upgrade can proceed.

  14. x 7

    Interesting observation from an NHS Windows 7 rollout from a few months back on a mix of Lenovo and Dells, mainly laptops

    Using the same USB drives, around 5% of approx 1000 machines wouldn't install. They would boot off the drives, but then not "see" the drive contents. No apparent reason for it, in some cases apparently identical machines would either consistently work or not work. Resetting / defaulting BIOSes made no change. On some machines changing the brand of pen drive made a difference - but on the next, apparently identical machine, it wouldn't. Really weird. All had Intel USB3 chipsets, yet the behaviour was so randomly variable.

    I forsee troubles with these Win10 drives

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Probably shitty UEFI implementations, but I'm not sure when it comes to Windows.

      I have only had two problems with Linux USB "live" sticks, firstly with old PCs (think 2006 era) which don't see a USB stick as a simple bootable HDD and often ask you if its a floppy or CD, etc (none of which seem to work).

      The other is very new PC motherboards with secure boot that failed to boot Linux but said bugger all about the reason. Only poking about in the BIOS/UEFI settings did I find that secure boot was enabled.

      UEFI BIOS writers, a pox on them all!

      1. Teiwaz
        Thumb Up

        I'm convinced some of these issues are due to Tsukumogami

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsukumogami

        Perhaps, computers, having logical processing capabilities reach this in only a tenth of the time...

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "Using the same USB drives, around 5% of approx 1000 machines wouldn't install."

      First, I have to ask why are you not booting and installing over the network for 1000+ PCs instead of manually installing one at a time from USB. I'm sure you have a perfectly good reason, I just can't think of it right now :-)

      "Resetting / defaulting BIOSes made no change."

      Were they all same BIOS revision too? It really is worth reading the BIOS change notices. I know I've seen BIOS updates which have specified "fixes boot issues from USB storage device" in change logs.

      Having said that, I carry two USB sticks with all my diags tools on, each of which uses a different boot method. My primary one works most of the time, but there are times, especially on older PCs where I need my alternate stick. Both are kept up to date with the latest "approved" BIOS revisions for the motherboards in the fleet. Replacement motherboards have often sat on a shelf for a few years and need to be updated before putting into service.

      1. x 7

        "First, I have to ask why are you not booting and installing over the network for 1000+ PCs"

        1) large number of sites - the upgrades were being carried out at the user locations

        2) decentralised network - not all the sites had access to the same part of the local NHS COIN, we would have had problems finding a server available to all sites with enough bandwidth

        3) because the guys who planned the rollout had limited degrees of freedom of thought and simply "wanted it done that way"........because they considered it more secure. Yes, really, Don't look at me like that......not my decision

        In reality you're right - because it was a COIN network we should have been able to find a way, but weren't allowed to. But we've had other cases where it simply isn't possible - e.g. thousands of machines covering all the GP surgeries in an entire county, all on local domains, maybe a couple of hundred. Not something that can be done from a central server -the N3 network isn't fast enough

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          "thousands of machines covering all the GP surgeries in an entire county"

          Yes, after I went to bed that was the one I thought of. See? I knew there was a good reason. 2 & 3 are "good" too :-)

          So far all my IT dealing with the NHS have involved hospitals. I'd forgotten about GPs etc.

        2. Lionel Baden

          @ X7

          "First, I have to ask why are you not booting and installing over the network for 1000+ PCs"

          1) large number of sites - the upgrades were being carried out at the user locations

          2) decentralised network - not all the sites had access to the same part of the local NHS COIN, we would have had problems finding a server available to all sites with enough bandwidth

          3) because the guys who planned the rollout had limited degrees of freedom of thought and simply "wanted it done that way"........because they considered it more secure. Yes, really, Don't look at me like that......not my decision

          In reality you're right - because it was a COIN network we should have been able to find a way, but weren't allowed to. But we've had other cases where it simply isn't possible - e.g. thousands of machines covering all the GP surgeries in an entire county, all on local domains, maybe a couple of hundred. Not something that can be done from a central server -the N3 network isn't fast enough

          TL/DR

          "I work for the NHS"

          1. x 7

            Lionel

            If you work for the NHS, then you should be trying to change the culture- not complaining when contractors like me try to explain what's wrong. Or are you one of the elite who actually created the NHS IT nightmare?

      2. x 7

        "Were they all same BIOS revision too?"

        at face value, identical BIOS revisions reacted differently

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Isn't there a procedure in place for "that's strange" events like this to be investigated? Or at least, were a couple of the suspicious machines quarantined for scrutiny?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Rootkit defending itself?

      1. Hans 1

        I upvoted because "software defending itself" sounded funny, but a rootkit lies in kernel space, not bios, afaik.

        It could well be an 0wned BIOS, though my bets are on bugs.

        To the BOFH, did you hold the USB stick correctly before you inserted it ? Did you ask the computer before inserting it ? You would not want to be charged with rape in Texas, would you ?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Hans, I'm glad someone else enjoyed the "defending itself" concept. Made myself smile with that... In a nervous sort of way.

          I was using "rootkit" somewhat loosely perhaps but thinking along similar (SMM / "God Mode") lines.

          Would be interesting to know what model of machine was afflicted and how they were configured.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    NOT to worry

    Microsucks will need less than 100 USB sticks for Win10.

    1. dogged

      Re: NOT to worry

      Good of you to put your name to that prediction, AC.

  16. ecofeco Silver badge

    Microsft showing us once again!

    ...how they have just discovered fresh, new and exiting 10 year old technology!

  17. pro-logic

    Does this mean they've run out of space on a standard DVD to fit the ISO and are now forced to provide it on a different medium?

    1. Neil Alexander

      I imagine it's more to do with ultrabooks, nettops and tablets, and the disappearance of DVD drives.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'll miss the Windows CDs and DVDs

    They were printed with a holographic image, if you turned them at a certain angle and let light reflect off them, you could see holographic images of 'Microsoft' and 'Genuine'. So pretty.

    Boring USB drive. Boo!

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I hope they let users create bootable CDs or DVDs from the packaged USB drive

    Not all of us want to install Windows from a USB drive. It's a nice option, but don't let it be the only option. Suppose your USB ports aren't working, or you need them for your peripherals. The trusty optical drive will have to do the job.

    1. Lionel Baden

      Re: I hope they let users create bootable CDs or DVDs from the packaged USB drive

      go back and re-read the article

    2. Charles 9

      Re: I hope they let users create bootable CDs or DVDs from the packaged USB drive

      And suppose you don't have an optical drive? Some laptops are like this, you know.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: I hope they let users create bootable CDs or DVDs from the packaged USB drive

        You can buy the OEM version of Win10 and an external DVD drive and still come out ahead.

  20. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
    Windows

    How much more can they take?

    USB sticks? I totally agree with that decision. That will make it a lot easier to get rid of the redundant stock when consumers tell them to shove it up their places without abundant sunshine. DVDs are much more pointy - if you have to take the case as well.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows should let users create a 'live' boot disk

    CD, DVD or USB drive.

    Only the bare necessities to run Windows off the media, for portability and troubleshooting.

    That's how you truly get with the times, Microsoft. And as Windows is now scalable and modular, you have no excuse not to do it.

    1. Neil Alexander

      Re: Windows should let users create a 'live' boot disk

      They already invented Windows To Go in 2011 for USB sticks, and even before that, Windows Embedded and WinPE have been able to boot from alternative media for years.

  22. captain veg Silver badge

    ISO image

    Surely all you need is an ISO image, then configure the virtual optical drive to present it to the VM as an inserted disk? I mean, who in their right mind is going to install this stuff on bare metal?

    -A.

  23. IJC
    Trollface

    The penguinistas fear is showing through

    Going by the raging FUD in the comments sections of recent Windows 10 articles all those crazy people running desktop Linux are scared out of their little white cotton socks.

    Must be the knowledge that Windows 10 installs will outnumber Linux desktop from day 1. In fact Windows 10 beta installs probably outnumber Linux desktop already.

    Must be really hard to accept that the majority of people prefer something other than their precious darling OS.

    What is the record for down votes?

    1. Teiwaz
      Linux

      Re: The penguinistas fear is showing through

      What makes you think it's the linux users spreading FUD?

      Personally, I come to the reg comments to either trying tro figure out the latest pronoucement from MS written as they ussually are, in hard to pin down to a defenitive marketing speak or merely triying to think of something funny to post.

      Most 'penguinistas' don't really care if others want to run Windows unless they are expected to provide technical support for it, then there's some teeth gnashing...

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: The penguinistas fear is showing through

        In truth, you can still get Windows on optical disk. It's even significantly cheaper that way.

        Pretty easy to see if you take 30 seconds to look on Amazon.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I would never pay $100+ for flypaper that attracts every dirty thing that is buzzing around.

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