back to article ACLU wants to end NSA mass spying forever – good luck with that

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is suing James Clapper – the US Director of National Intelligence – and other government bigwigs to stop the NSA from gathering innocent citizens' phone records in bulk. In a filing [PDF] to the United States Court of Appeals (2nd circuit), the union claims that even though a section …

  1. asdf

    long live the fourth amendment, oh wait its already dead

    Someone needed to defend the fourth amendment but they are at least 15 years too late. In a lot of ways the SCOTUS had been pissing on it for decades even before that.

    1. Eddy Ito

      Re: long live the fourth amendment, oh wait its already dead

      Why stop at the fourth? They've used the commerce clause to piss all over the 9th and 10th for quite some time. They used the 'dem are tear-wrists' (clause? I can't find it right now but I'm sure it's dere somewhir) to wee on the 6th, 7th and 8th. Then there is the line in the sand (you can gather & protest against our important politicians way over yonder) argument to tie up the first and I have many friends here in SoCal who feel the well neutered 10th amendment is being used to abridge the 2nd. Of the original Bill of Rights, that would leave the3rd that more or less remains unambiguously intact as far as I know.

      1. Mephistro
        Thumb Up

        Re: long live the fourth amendment, oh wait its already dead

        Totally true. And is a general tendency. Countries like the U.K., France, Spain or Germany -Germany, of all countries, that after only ~25 years after the fall of the Wall seem to be willing to have another go at dictatorships! - are developing a panoply of gag laws and '"security laws", misinformation by big media, terror threats (real or imaginary), and the whatnot.

        In short, they're wiping their arses with their citizens rights! And they're getting away with it!!! :-(

        1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

          Of course they're getting away with it

          We're too busy munching Cheetos on our couch waiting for the next sports thing or the latest gutter trash news on the Kardashians.

          The problem is not with the politicians - they'll do whatever they damn want as long as the Public is distracted.

          We haven't gone an inch further than Panem et Circenses, and it's all our fault.

          I was listening just yesterday to some French radio channel. They had an economist/historian who going on and on about how we only had one party, because Left and Right were both doing the bidding of Big Corp and voting laws in its favor. He stated that true democracy would be no President and citizens voting directly for every law.

          As if that would help.

          Right now we have at least 60% of the population that doesn't bother to vote for anything. I don't see them all of a sudden waking up and voting on laws.

          What we need is citizens who care about their vote, and inform themselves properly before making a decision. I say citizens should be vetted before being given the right to vote. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that is just as easy to circumvent as any other system.

          But I remain convinced that it is the citizenry that needs to evolve and, as long as we care more about our TV than we care about our politicians, nothing will change.

          1. asdf

            Re: Of course they're getting away with it

            >We're too busy munching Cheetos on our couch waiting for the next sports thing or the latest gutter trash news on the Kardashians.

            Funny how that happens when you go from spending money on public education and things like the Apollo program to spending money on misadventures like Vietnam, Iraq and the F35 and handouts for old people.

          2. Eddy Ito

            Re: Of course they're getting away with it

            Right now we have at least 60% of the population that doesn't bother to vote for anything. I don't see them all of a sudden waking up and voting on laws.

            Sad but true. Of course it doesn't help that the voting options are typically "sponsored by Exxon Mobil", "paid for by Google", "sleeping with the MPAA", etc. It's akin to people dropping out of the workforce. After a while, they just give up and accept that nothing is going to change. As you say, it could be fixed if more people got involved at the primary election levels but it's usually only the red or blue hive mind base that bothers with that. My problem is deciding which primary to vote in, red for Paul or blue for Sanders.

  2. Ole Juul

    short circuit

    The NSA thinks they can break the law to uphold the law.

  3. Schultz
    Black Helicopters

    Nothing to worry about ...

    Only 5.1 million Americans have a security clearance to read your slurped data, so chances are that your neighbor still doesn't know what you are up to in your private life. Or does he?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nothing to worry about ...

      Flame on. Depends on your race and class. Considering more than likely the vast majority of those 5.3 mil are probably white and middle to upper class its probably a fairly big danger to many on an IT website like this. Especially given the tendency of white folks (most races actually) to cluster together with people that look and talk just like them in their little gated communities.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So much for Truths being self evident

    1. Gray
      Big Brother

      Self-evident, indeed!

      Clapper lied to Congress, will lie to the Judge, and ignores the rights guaranteed by the Constitution ... what Truth could be more self-evident than that?

  5. kdd

    Just make it more expensive.

    What the ACLU needs to do is make sure we still have the right to communicate in coded messages-– including encryption. We MUST have the right to control our own personal security by using un-backdoored (un-broken) encryption. And that will make it even less economically viable to "collect it all and sort it out later." Eventually they'll have to stop putting their feet on their desk and letting the computer do their work for them like shiftless bums, and have to go out and actually do the work they are being paid to do and that might actually provide real security.

    1. Charles 9

      Re: Just make it more expensive.

      As far as they're concerned, what man can make, man can break. Even the vaunted one-time pad can be broken with social engineering.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ACLU is typically clueless

    There is no God given right nor Constitutional right that prevents authorities from using appropriate monitoring of mass communication for national security purposes. In fact Congress and legislative branches of other countries have confirm the validity and necessity of such measures for protection of the populace. The foolishness perpetuated by those who don't know or understand the laws and the means required for national security are the ass clowns who go about making ignorant claims regarding appropriate surveillance that are meritless. The goal by a few is to outrage the clueless in society to prevent proper monitoring to actually protect the clueless, which is rather ironic.

    1. asdf

      Re: ACLU is typically clueless

      AC huh? Nobody but the crazies thinks the government shouldn't be collecting intelligence about foreign adversaries. Most people have a problem though with the FBI and local law enforcement capturing mobile phone communications without a warrant (ie Stringray device). See even if they don't use the evidence in court there is this thing called Fruit of the poisonous tree (sorry not a law expert hate the profession but bare with me) that they are still getting away in many cases not to mention trampling the fourth amendment. This is just one example of many where in the name of safety and the public ignorance you mention law enforcement and intelligence agencies are on a slippery slope to eroding the very rights of citizens they are supposed to protect. And the if you have nothing to hide, for your own safety, brigade like yourself are more a part of the problem than the solution.

    2. asdf

      Re: ACLU is typically clueless

      >There is no God given right nor Constitutional right that prevents authorities from using appropriate monitoring of mass communication for national security

      Might want to read the fourth amendment there chief. Just because the political worthless SCOTUS has whittled it down to nothing doesn't mean it has been erased from the minds of people who don't watch TMZ. The founding fathers certainly didn't believe the crown should be able to go door to door reading people's letters to see who the traitors may be (ie national security).

      >In fact Congress and legislative branches of other countries have confirm the validity and necessity of such measures for protection of the populace.

      You mean like in Syria and Iran? I bet also you are big on saying the SCOTUS should ignore the UN and other countries law in other posts. Also you might want to avoid throwing around the word assclown with an anonymous post as weak as yours to avoid the appearance of irony.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ACLU is typically clueless

        "Might want to read the fourth amendment there chief. Just because the political worthless SCOTUS has whittled it down to nothing doesn't mean it has been erased from the minds of people who don't watch TMZ. The founding fathers certainly didn't believe the crown should be able to go door to door reading people's letters to see who the traitors may be (ie national security)."

        And if it's the ONLY way to find the terrorists bent on destroying or crippling the nation? Liberty or death sounds noble until you realize it's not just you but everyone.

    3. asdf

      Re: ACLU is typically clueless

      Ok I admit you got now three posts out of me. You can drop the hahaha trolled you good gloat message now. Sadly something tells me though you weren't going Andy Kauffman.

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