back to article From Manchester to Microsoft – missing mum :-(

Welcome to another eXpat Files, in which Reg readers tell of leaving home and hearth for career upgrades only available elsewhere. This time around we're chatting to 26-year-old Dai Rees, who moved on from “a small commuter town south of Manchester” that he won't name “to spite my former headmaster, who actively discouraged my …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Britain’s roads

    I’d miss the roads the most. They’re not very important, but just how well-thought-out the road system is in Redmond (but not Seattle) makes me grow frustrated with the single-lane, arbitrary squiggles of Britain’s roads.

    Britain’s roads aren't arbitrary but may look so to someone that hasn't studied the history. 95% of the British roads existed before the advent of the motor car so obviously weren't "designed" for them. I've put the word designed in quotation marks because the roads and their unsurfaced ancestors simply took the path of least resistance - Roman roads aside - so that pedestrians, drovers and other traders didn't have to deal with gradients, rivers and so on.

    You see a squiggle, I see a route around a big tree that didn't warrant being hacked down to save ten seconds of walking.

    1. Rusty 1
      Happy

      Flay Otters

      We have things called steering wheels to accommodate the awkwardness of unstraight roads.

      John Cleese made the point very finely a good 35 years ago in his brush with a Waldorf salad.

      Besides, isn't driving around our fabulous network of squiggly roads one of life's great pleasures?

      1. N2

        Re: Flay Otters

        "Besides, isn't driving around our fabulous network of squiggly roads one of life's great pleasures?"

        Yes, when there is tarmac to drive on as opposed to pot holes so numerous they resemble a lunar surface.

        1. Greg 16

          Re: Flay Otters

          I do a lot of driving. Other than the occasional quiet residential street (where a top speed of 20mph is appropriate anyway), I can't remember the last time I drove over a pothole in the UK.

          1. JustNiz

            Re: Flay Otters

            As a Brit now living in the US for the last 10 years or so, I can confirm that US roads, especially in cities, are often in FAR worse condition than they would ever be allowed to get in the UK. There's a very good reason why most Americans drive trucks with big wheels and soft suspension.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Britain’s roads

      Squiggles and two-lane/single-lane (total/each way) isn't really problem. I live in Maine and the roads can be pretty squiggly here. The difference is that in Britain the roads are narrow. (They have a different view of what's a "streams" and "pond" here.)

  2. Ol'Peculier
    Unhappy

    Roads

    The thing I've found with US roads, mainly the Interstate or on Route 50 that signs are placed /on/ the junction, rather than the 3/2/1 countdown we have here. Missed several turn-offs because of that.

    Also spent what felt like hours trying to get out of Ronald Regan airport which I'd driven into because of the signage, but that was probably more my fault than anything else.

    1. Peter Simpson 1
      Happy

      Re: Roads

      Assuming, that they exist at all.

      Here in New England, we lose them regularly. Mostly, it's due to snowplows, but also traffic accidents (usually drunk or distracted drivers taking them out). Sometimes, they just vanish. Others are so badly faded or non-reflective (if they ever were reflective) they're as good as invisible. The nice lane markings vanish each spring, due to plowing and abrasion from sand. You haven't lived until you;ve driven on 128 in the rain. Four lanes of mayhem, and nobody can see the lane markings.

      If you were born here, you probably can manage to find your way around. If not, good luck.

  3. The Axe

    Gentrification

    What's this hatred of gentrification? Anything that gets rid of nasty or down market areas of a city and improves them is a good thing. If a few people think that the city's character has been lost then they are the nutty ones, everyone else is progressing forward and benefiting from a better city.

    1. Martin Summers Silver badge

      Re: Gentrification

      How would you feel if you could not afford to live in the familiar place you grew up in and loved?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Gentrification

        Do you have a right to be able to afford to live in that familiar place?

        Don't forget that a few hundred years ago, it was all mud huts and and sticks. Progress and chance, the savage and soulless beasts that they are, have moved us on. Some places are better for it, and some less so.

        1. Martin Summers Silver badge

          Re: Gentrification

          "Do you have a right to be able to afford to live in that familiar place?"

          Says you from your anonymous ivory tower. What a snobbish disgusting attitude.

          Not everyone falls out of education and straight into a job paying the kind of money that affords houses in these areas. Not everyone gets the same chances in life, that's just a fact.

          1. Steven Raith

            Re: Gentrification

            I agree that extreme gentrification is a problem for locals, but I must admit, I can't recommend getting out and about a bit enough - if for no other reason than to get out of your comfort zone, meet people who have a totally different world view to you.

            I moved from John O Groats to London, effectively (living in herts, working in 't Smoke) and now live in Scarborough and work in York; it's been pretty awsume now I think about it, and certainly more interesting than staying local, with better/different opportunities etc.

            Thinking of moving closer to York this year (nobody lives *in* York - it's too expensive ;-) ), as commuting 45 miles each way a day is grating now...!

            Steven R

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Gentrification

            Not everyone gets the same chances in life, that's just a fact.

            Very true, but why should those who don't get the chances be able to hold back those who do?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Gentrification

              "Very true, but why should those who don't get the chances be able to hold back those who do?"

              In the UK most people do have the same chances when it comes to the most important aspects of life. What I think Martin means, is that some people choose not to take those chances for a variety of reasons, but they should have exactly the same lifestyle as those who do. He'd like it in North Korea.

              1. Martin Summers Silver badge

                Re: Gentrification

                "In the UK most people do have the same chances when it comes to the most important aspects of life."

                Utter Bollocks. It very much helps to come from a privileged or at least well off background to get you where you want to be. Having the confidence even if you don't have the cash can come from the background and opportunities you were given as a kid.

                You guys are speaking as if it's a given that everyone has the opportunities that you presumably had. You have absolutely no idea if that is the case and must think you live in a utopia where everyone gets a fair crack at everything. They don't.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Gentrification

                  > You guys are speaking as if it's a given that everyone has the opportunities that you presumably had

                  I wouldn't want to start making assumptions and fall into the same trap as you, but I want to point out that your wailing could be interpreted as laziness on your part and wanting to have things served on a plate.

                  If I look at the best examples of people who have achieved great things in life that I am personally acquainted with, I can assure you that their varied backgrounds did not make a significant difference and any starting inequalities fade into insignificance in the light of the extreme effort these people have made to be where they are today.

                  1. Martin Summers Silver badge

                    Re: Gentrification

                    "I wouldn't want to start making assumptions and fall into the same trap as you, but I want to point out that your wailing could be interpreted as laziness on your part and wanting to have things served on a plate."

                    I've been very careful not to make assumptions but of course you've chosen not to quote me in an even handed way where I specifically state "if that is the case".

                    As for 'wailing' oh come on, do you treat everyone who has a different point of view to you like a child? Are you hiding behind AC because you are actually ashamed of your superiority complex? I certainly don't expect things to be handed to me on a plate. I might not be as ambitious as some people but that's *my* choice and you do not thankfully get to live mine or anyone else's life for me.

                    As for those you know that have put in a concerted effort to get themselves where they are. Tell me that nowhere along that line there wasn't some good luck or fortune come in to play. Even if not, still, not everyone gets the same opportunities they may have had. It just doesn't and cannot happen for everyone or they just might not choose to trailblaze which is their choice. To come back to the original argument, decent people not being able to live in an area they have an affinity with or had grown up in (they could have been renting and decided they'd like to buy for example, or just moved out of home) is not a great situation. It's bubbles that are only created where big companies choose to call home. In the UK this happens in popular tourist destinations where those that can buy holiday homes and only live in them during the summer. Leaving anyone actually from the area unable to buy and the local economy suffering. I'm just asking you AC to look at things from a different point of view, not just your own.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: Gentrification

                      > In the UK this happens in popular tourist destinations where those that can buy holiday homes and only live in them during the summer. Leaving anyone actually from the area unable to buy and the local economy suffering.

                      You may want to replace "UK" by "Bulgarian coast" and "those that can buy holiday homes" by "Brits" and we're getting there. Alternatively, "Majorca" and "Germans", respectively. To put just two examples which btw, are nothing to do with big companies and all to do with more affluent Northern European pensioners (and "remote workers") moving to lower income countries to stretch their money--which, by the way, is called economic migration, and when it happens in the other direction people (often the aforementioned themselves) tend to become very self-righteously agitated.

                      You may not like it but that's the way it is: if you have access to something that other people want, you are going to have to compete with them for the privilege.

                2. Steven Raith

                  Re: Gentrification

                  "Utter Bollocks. It very much helps to come from a privileged or at least well off background to get you where you want to be. Having the confidence even if you don't have the cash can come from the background and opportunities you were given as a kid."

                  It can help, but it's not the be all and end all; I was brought up alone by an alcoholic, in the sort of conditions that would feature in a modern Childline ad (I brought myself up from around age 12, including handling the bills, etc); and yet, I'm doing pretty well for myself despite being disadvantaged in almost every important respect from a first-world standpoint, not to mention living in the arse end of nowhere, to boot.

                  Opportunities come easier if you have the benefit of a 'lucky' upbringing, but I've mostly got to where I am today (which isn't much, but it's fine) by wit, intellect and a burning urge to prove everyone who said I'd amount to nothing because I was the local poor kid utterly, blindingly wrong.

                  Opportunity smooths the path, but incentive and attitude are far, far more important IMHO, and make you take the path. Incentive makes you smash down the barriers and get places.

                  Steven R

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Gentrification @Martin Summers

        "How would you feel if you could not afford to live in the familiar place you grew up in and loved?"

        I'm sure the fact that your property would skyrocket in value as soon as the gentrification had taken place would help make up for your perceived loss.

        Seriously though, who in this day and age expects or even wants to live within a stone's throw of their childhood home for their entire life? Shows a distinct lack of ambition and closed mindedness to me. There's a whole world to explore out there!

        1. Martin Summers Silver badge

          Re: Gentrification @Martin Summers

          "Shows a distinct lack of ambition and closed mindedness to me. There's a whole world to explore out there!"

          I would say expecting everyone to think the way you do shows closed mindedness. Regardless of whether you choose to live at home or not it doesn't stop you exploring the world does it?

  4. grumpyoldeyore
    Pint

    single-lane, arbitrary squiggles of Britain’s roads.

    http://www.poetrybyheart.org.uk/poems/the-rolling-english-road/

  5. Buzzword

    Weekend

    World's first Starbucks and a floating bridge? Come on, there must be more than that to do in Seattle. What do *you* do at the weekend there?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Weekend

      Like the rest of Microsoft, he's working on polishing out some of the fail from Windows 10.

      1. Hans 1

        Re: Weekend

        >Like the rest of Microsoft, he's working on polishing out some of the fail from Windows 10.

        Did you even read the article ? He works on "the soon to be [defunct]" Internet Explorer.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Weekend

      Drive to Vancouver !

      Despite to the wide diversity of eclectic entertainment available in America's own Peterborough - more and more seattle techies are taking advantage of the Canadian $ and live in Vancouver for the weekend.

      1. John Sager

        Re: Weekend

        All sorts. We have friends in Redmond (not Softies), and went all over. Mt St Helens is about 5 hours down I-5. Mt Rainier (pronounced 'reneer') has skiing, mountain climbing. Go over Snoqualmie Pass on I-90 to the skiing up there in winter, and the semi-desert terrain along the Columbia River (beware Rattlesnake signs! but we didn't see one). Lots of boatie-type stuff to do on Puget Sound & Lake Washington. I could go on, but Google for yourself.

    3. wayne 8

      Re: Weekend

      Mountains, big ones. Whale watching. Olympia Penisula. Hiking. Sailing. All close to downtown Seattle.

    4. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Weekend

      There's a great waterfront and vibrant counter-culture and student scene. I saw Billy Bragg while I was over. But one thing the Pacific Northwest has over Britain and it's the scenery: rain forest, mountains, seaside, etc. That said, it's close enough to some pretty nasty tectonic boundaries, which helps explain the scenery, so a lot could get wiped out at pretty much any time.

  6. Tromos

    Yeehah! We're expecting some tumbleweed next week.

    With highlights like a car park and a Starbucks for the leisure hours, I think I'd rather stay at work.

    1. wayne 8

      Re: Yeehah! We're expecting some tumbleweed next week.

      The car park was /sarc.

      1. Borg.King

        Re: Yeehah! We're expecting some tumbleweed next week.

        405 southbound from Bellevue down to I-90 is a slow crawl most afternoons.

      2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        Re: Yeehah! We're expecting some tumbleweed next week.

        The car park was /sarc.

        Yes, it seems to be a part of those wonderful roads that are sooo much better than in Manchester. Sounds just like the M6 to me...

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wasn't aware comic books were a thing that grown men actually bought - I thought it was stereotype.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Coat

      Yes, that was my thought on reading the comment too...

      "Case in point: according to Google Maps, Birmingham has three comic book stores, Seattle has 12"

      Maybe the people of Birmingham read books without pictures rather than comics?

    2. wayne 8

      anime (ick)

      In my opinion someone older than 13 and uses the word "ick" should not complain about anime.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Segway Polo?

    Either too poor to play the real game or too lazy / uncoordinated to try bicycle polo.

    Definitely calls for a Playmobil reconstruction.

  9. midcapwarrior

    weekends

    Well he is a IT guy and not used to being out in direct sunlight so take his choices with a grain of salt. The Seattle area is a great place if your in to the great outdoors.

    Hiking, skiing, biking all within an hour.

    I'd also take in the ferries to the San Juan islands.

    Can even do whale watching during the migration season.

    I'd complain about the weather but as this is an brit site I'm sure you'd be right at home.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Britain’s roads aren't arbitrary but may look so to someone that hasn't studied the history. 95% of the British roads existed before the advent of the motor car so obviously weren't "designed" for them" --- Mahatma Coat.

    Absolutely MC, but I think you're being generous. I don't think he needed to have studied history to have realised that British roads aren't arbitrary: he just needed not to be stupid. I can't work out whether it's because he really is or he was going for some unsuccessful comic effect.

    Am I getting really old and grumpy? This doesn't sound like it was an interview with a 26 year old 2:1 graduate with a decent job at Microsoft. Or perhaps it does, and that is what is wrong with everything.

  11. Borg.King

    Mortgages are go!

    I ran this expat trail in 2006, being relocated from London the MSFT in 2006 and staying with them for almost five years.

    On the mortgage front, First Tech Federal Credit Union can arrange mortgages for overseas relo's almost from day 1. If you're a MSFT relo, then the relo coordinator should be able to help out with all that.

    The compensation is much better than the UK, I doubled my net income in the move, and the cost of living is a lot lower. I have a $650k 3000 sq ft house, in an acre of land. I drive a 6 year old Lexus and a 13 year old Aston Martin. I would not have anything like this if I stayed in UK.

    There's lots to do in and around Seattle if you're the outdoor type, and places like Vancouver, San Francisco, LA, San Diego are all within a few hours flight. Swap Tenerife for Maui and you're all good there too.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Mortgages are go!

      Frankly anyone in any sort of engineering (and not working as a contractor in the city) who stays on the right side of the pond is crazy.

      1. Thecowking

        Re: Mortgages are go!

        Depends what your goals are.

        I've visted the states a lot and while it's lovely to visit, living there would grind me down in months.

        The food, the accents, the television, the politics, all of it would just wear me out if I didn't have the escape of Blighty to come back to.

        I'm very happy to keep my lower pay but my (personal percieved), higher quality of life. I've lived in China, I've got a job that takes me round the world when want it to, but I always look forward to coming home.

        Eventually I'd even like to get back to Manchester. If I was more motivated by sheer remuneration, I'd probably have taken that offer of a job in Sacremento four years ago.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Mortgages are go!

          Likewise. As much as I love Americans, love the country (although I would dispute that it is much cheaper to live there) after 2-3 months in my US home I can't wait to get back to the UK.

        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Mortgages are go!

          That's why god invented Canada.

          Nearly American wages, nearly American prices, better scenery and nicer people than the UK or USA.

          We even have our own raving mad PM......

    2. JustNiz

      Re: Mortgages are go!

      Yeah I gotta say I agree with you. There's no way that back in England I could afford the house, cars or lifestyle I have here in Arizona,

      I do miss many things about England, but every trip back I see more of the good things have been lost forever, and how the whole country is turning into a slum full of non-integrating immigrants, druggies and pawn shops.

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