back to article Apple will cut down 36,000 acres of forest in 'conservation scheme'

Apple has purchased more than 36,000 acres of forestland to supply timber for its paper and pulp mills, and is describing the venture as part of a “conservationist scheme”. "Apple is focused on using only the resources it needs," said Lisa Jackson, veep of environmental initiatives at Apple, and Larry Selzer, CEO of the …

  1. Alan Denman

    For people who cannot they see the wood for the trees

    Cut trees, plant trees. Its a working forest.

    I say TIMBER to that stupid argument. That is how most forests work.

    1. Khaptain Silver badge

      Re: For people who cannot they see the wood for the trees

      That all depends on the kind of forests you are cutting down

      If it's 5 year old pine trees, I really don't think that it would matte to much.

      If it is 200 year old Oak trees than that's not quite the same cup of tea.

      If it's the Amazon rainforest in it's original condition then ........<insert castration method here>

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: For people who cannot they see the wood for the trees

        "If it's the Amazon rainforest in it's original condition then..."

        There's a lot of evidence to show that large areas of the Amazon that were thought to be "in it's original condition" are infact regrowth and less than 500 years old.

        1. ChrisBedford

          Re: For people who cannot they see the wood for the trees

          "There's a lot of evidence to show that large areas of the Amazon [...] are in fact regrowth and less than 500 years old"

          Oh well that's all right then. Cut it down, it'll grow back in another 500 years, no problem.

      2. Robert Helpmann??
        Childcatcher

        Re: For people who cannot they see the wood for the trees

        That all depends on the kind of forests you are cutting down

        From the press release:

        "In the Reed Forest of Aroostook County, Maine, wetlands, rivers, and upland forest provide refuge for Atlantic salmon, bald eagle, and Canada lynx. And in Brunswick Forest located in southern North Carolina, the high-quality pine savannas and unique plants and flowers have long made this land a conservation priority."

        It's not that the trees are simply cut down, they are replanted and harvested, just like any other crop. Granted, there have been instances of irresponsible business owners not replanting, but I would hardly think that to be the case in this instance. That these are working forests would indicate that this has been the case for these tracts for some time. The forest in Maine is most likely different from its native makeup, though, so I am a little confused as to how this represents some sort of environmental statement more than a vertical business integration.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: For people who cannot they see the wood for the trees

          Of course it is. It's mostly owned by International Paper (or another paper company.)

      3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: For people who cannot they see the wood for the trees

        "That all depends on the kind of forests you are cutting down"

        Bramley on M27?

  2. Antonymous Coward
    WTF?

    Forestry != woodland

    I know Apple Inc. deserves a good bashing (on many accounts) but Shirley this is an exception? After all, The Precious Shiny must be packed in something to keep it, erm... shiny... en route to the breathless fanboisie.

    1. Lee D Silver badge

      Re: Forestry != woodland

      If they could put some fecking finger-holes in their packaging, that would be great too.

      I've unpacked many iPad Minis for work and there are no fingerholes to grip the internal box when you want to separate the top from bottom. As such you either a) tear said upper box or b) end up dropping the bottom box on the floor/desk as you shake it free.

      Because of the wonderful "design" of these boxes, the iPad is also loose on top, glass upwards, without protection so the first thing to break if the box does open is the iPad itself. Then underneath that (again, no fingerholes so you have to "tip" the iPad into your other hand), there's a USB cable and plug which are sitting on the bottom of a big empty gap that would be perfect for, say, protecting the top of the iPad instead.

      Everyone keeps telling me that Apple is all about the design and usability. I've yet to witness it in anything from the OS to the machines to the packaging.

      1. Synonymous Howard

        Re: Forestry != woodland

        Clearly you are 'holding it wrong' when you are opening them 8-)

        Love the packaging though but I would blame the Japanese for Apple's obsession with tight fitting boxes and the 'opening experience'.

        1. MrDamage Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Forestry != woodland

          > "blame the Japanese for Apple's obsession with tight fitting boxes and the 'opening experience'."

          Then perhaps the aforementioned "breathless fanboise" should stop watching all that hentai.

          I'll get my coat. It's the one with the manga comics in the pocket with the pages stuck together.

      2. Steve I

        Re: Forestry != woodland

        You genuinely cannot open an iPad box with tearing the box or dropping the iPad ion the floor?

        1. lurker

          Re: Forestry != woodland

          It's due to the 'intellect distortion field' which surrounds the devices.

          How else do you think they sell so many at that price?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And if Tim Cook abandons capitalism to live naked in a cave

    El Reg will castigate him for depriving bears of potential hibernating habitat...

    Yes, there is NO activity without some deleterious side-effects. Including breathing. Even when done solely through the mouth.

    1. Steven Raith

      Re: And if Tim Cook abandons capitalism to live naked in a cave

      "El Reg will castigate him for depriving bears of potential hibernating habitat..."

      Well, Apple are already denying them their toilet area already so it wouldn't shock anyone.

      Steven "Obvious joke" R

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And if Tim Cook abandons capitalism to live naked in a cave

      Protecting 56 miles of the tribes land at gun point is for the tribes well being, not because the filthy rich want to strip the lands resources!! You people always blame the rich for untouched land secretly hiding oil!! The rich didn't hide the oil there, so leave then alone!! Besides, if it was about profit, then if blood......wait, wrong article. Sooooooo sorry.

  4. TitterYeNot

    El Reg has contacted Apple...

    "...and is awaiting a response"

    When you get a reply, look out of the window - I'm guessing it'll be very dark, and very quiet, and you'll be looking at the heat death of the universe...

    1. Nunyabiznes

      Re: El Reg has contacted Apple...

      Best book your reservation at the Restaurant just in case.

  5. Kubla Cant

    Trees are a crop

    The idea that cutting trees in this way is anti-conservation is plain stupid.

    They aren't cutting primal broadleaf woodland or tropical rain forest. The softwood trees that are used for paper and packaging are grown for the purpose. Less timber-based packaging means fewer trees, not more. It's a crop, and it's only grown because there is a market for it. You might as well try to conserve wheat by eating less bread.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Happy

      Re: Trees are a crop

      and it's been this way for a VERY long time. Same goes for all the Vegans....what do you think will happen to all the pigs, cows, chickens and sheep in this word?

    2. Mark 85

      Re: Trees are a crop

      Have an upvote for logic about paper and trees. New paper generates less toxins than recycling (dioxins amongst others) and it's renewable which should make the Greens feel better except for the fanatics who think that cutting down any tree (even a dead one) is bad.

      1. Antonymous Coward
        Facepalm

        Re: Trees are a crop

        Cutting down dead trees is bad. Just ask a woodpecker.

        More of the "I can improve it by messing with it" delusion which pervades those utterly brainless do-gooder types.

      2. wayward4now

        Re: Trees are a crop

        What ever happened to hemp? Leave the trees alone. Legalize hemp production again. This country was founded on hemp production.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Meh

    Must be a slow news day,

    welcome to what the FSC have been doing for years.

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. MrDamage Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Woodlands.

      If that's true, why does the biggest capitalist country in the world have such a problem with prostitution?

      Again, coat. I'm leaving this time. Promise.*

      *Until someone else make a comment I can make a smart-arse remark about.

  8. dorsetknob
    FAIL

    How Green is my Apple

    If cr APPLE was Truly interested in Being Green and a Eco Company then WHY DO THEY NOT 100% recycled packaging MATERIAL.

    Could it be that its more Expensive and CUTS INTO THEIR PROFIT MARGIN

    1. Anonymous Coward
      WTF?

      Re: How Green is my Apple

      Teacher training day?

    2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: How Green is my Apple

      From the article

      The fruity folk's partnership with the Conservation Fund is described as mutually beneficial. In chopping down thousands of trees to make paper packaging, we're told, "Apple is [displaying its commitment] to zeroing out that impact by using paper more efficiently, increasing recycled paper content, sourcing paper sustainably, and conserving acreage of working forests around the world equivalent to its virgin paper footprint."

      Yep, it must be a teacher training day.

      Apple (boo hiss) are merely safeguarding the supply of timber for their use. So that when next their Environment Audit is done they can tick a few more boxes and appease the tree huggers for their otherwise flagrant use of the Earth's recources.

      woe betide the wailing that would go on here is they decided to fell virgin rainforrest for their packaging.

    3. David Kelly 2

      Re: How Green is my Apple

      If recycled materials are more expensive than virgin new, then there is MORE consumption in using recycled.

    4. Mark 85

      Re: How Green is my Apple @dorsetknob

      Go do a little research first before shooting yourself in the foot. Paper products come from trees raised for that purpose and are replanted. Then go research recycling and see what's generated by the process because to recycle, the paper has to be bleached and re-processed. Once done, get back to us. Recycling really isn't "green" no matter what you learned from Sesame Street. The enegy input and the waste products are worse cutting and turning fresh trees into paper.

  9. turbine

    Ideal paper supplier

    Nokia

  10. pci

    Genuine question...

    Why buy trees in the US when the products will be made and packaged in China?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Genuine question...

      Better than sending empty ships on one of the two ways between countries?

    2. Fink-Nottle
      Coat

      Re: Genuine question...

      > Why buy trees in the US when the products will be made and packaged in China?

      This minimises breakages during the manufacturing process because, as you know, erm ... the fruit never falls far from the tree.

    3. johnnymotel

      Are they all packaged in China?

      What if all US sold items were freighted from China in custom designed, re-useable stackers, designed to pack the maximum number of items per shipping container. Space costs money in freight. This may not apply to small items like iPhones, watches etc. But on iMacs it could make a big difference.

  11. chivo243 Silver badge

    which company is worse?

    HP, Dell or Apple when it comes to packaging? I've seen each of them do some real overkill on packaging.

    I seem to remember a story about HP shipping a user manual on a pallet...

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: which company is worse?

      Undoubtedly HP. I have seen stuff like 4 boxes one in another to ship a _PAPER_ confirming your license.

      1. Synonymous Howard

        Re: which company is worse?

        I still have a set of beautifully created cardboard folders complete with embossed logos and bright orange internal elastic bands to hold in place the single sheet of carbon copy line printer paper on which the DEC ULTRIX licence was printed (which I think we never had to use anyway).

        We got one of these folders for each DECstation we bought. Although only cardboard they have lasted 25 years longer than the DECstations did and still in regular use by me.

        But HP definitely biggest offender in the over-packaging stakes ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyNFNvFAlWs

        1. joed
          Happy

          Re: which company is worse?

          Well, each of Apple's products we receive comes in at least 2 boxes. A brown shipping cardboard box is easy to recycle (if somewhat redundant). It goes right on (tight fit) the fancy, white/colored and laminated (= next to impossible to recycle) product box (the one that "fanboys" keep on their shelves). In this box is bunch of other junk responsible for "product experience" and the actual toy. None of this seems easily recyclable (and repairable). By comparison other brands' packaging looks more mundane but is much easier on environment, though more and more copycats try to follow Apple in over-packaging. At the end we - consumers - pay for both the over-engineered boxes and their disposal.

          And responsible forestry (or whatever PR name they use) is only the 1st step in turning the wood into packaging. None of these steps is particularly environmentally friendly. The only true 'conservation scheme' is to actually conserve resources at every stage. I can't see Apple (or any other "concerned" corporation) doing this. I bet that another of their environmentally friendly achievements - the spaceship HQ - will be is just as great for forests. Price of progress?

          1. chivo243 Silver badge

            Re: which company is worse?

            To be honest, I have some Apple product boxes storing various collections of computer components, not on a shelf for show, but in a larger brown box.

            I'm glad to re-use these boxes when they come my way, they are well built.

      2. ChrisBedford

        Re: which company is worse?

        "Undoubtedly HP. I have seen stuff like 4 boxes one in another to ship a _PAPER_ confirming your license."

        Yup. Don't know about the 4 boxes but HP does ship sturdy double-wall corrugated boxes containing bubble-wrapped power cords. With foam-wrapped connectors.

  12. Erik4872

    Isn't this just supply chain control?

    I guess Apple has money to spend, but it's interesting seeing moves like this and I wonder if it's a trend. When oil prices were getting crazy, Delta Airlines bought an oil refinery so they could control the cost of refining jet fuel. I think this is the same kind of thing -- Apple wants to lock in the price it pays for paper packaging products. Who knows how much it actually costs them to make fancy boxes, but I guess a bunch of MBAs did the math.

    The Delta thing apparently didn't work out as they had planned since oil prices dropped, but long term it seems like a good strategy. Airlines live and die by fuel prices; it's a monster percentage of the inputs to their service, the next biggest one being labor (they just lease the planes.)

    Moves like this actually sound good on paper -- by owning the means of production, you aren't subject to price fluctuations. However, I know the hip business triend is to outsource everything except for the executives and build a business on a massive tower of interlocked contracts with suppliers.

    1. Fatman
      Joke

      Re: Isn't this just supply chain control?

      However, I know the hip business triend is to outsource everything except for including the executives and build a business on a massive tower clusterfuck of interlocked contracts with suppliers.

      You made a mistake, I fixed it.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    War is Peace

    Freedom is Slavery

    Ignorance is Strength

    We've always been at war with Oceania

    Someone said that.

    Add: Cutting trees is planting them.

  14. Dave Nicholson - EMC

    It is fascinating to watch Apple go through its lifecycle. "Managing your supply chain" is great right up to the point where you truly believe that you can out-innovate entire industries outside of your core competency.

    This is a different kind of "innovator's dilemma".

    The one where innovators start thinking that they are smarter than everyone else about all things.

    1. Erik4872

      ""Managing your supply chain" is great right up to the point where you truly believe that you can out-innovate entire industries outside of your core competency."

      It seems to me like owning everything involved in production would be the ideal to work towards. You wouldn't have suppliers raising prices on you and you could therefore maximize profitability. Imagine if a car manufacturer owned an iron mine, ore producer, steel production, etc. Iron ore goes in one end, out comes cars on the other end, all under your control. As far as competencies go, you buy that along with the components in the process that you acquire. It's probably not practical for GM to be in the mining business, but certainly being involved in the raw materials in some way or another lets you dictate material prices.

      1. Hurn

        Ford did this (ran a steel smelter plant next door to a car factory). Seemed to work for a while.

        IBM did it as well, right down to groundskeepers and toilet cleaners being IBM employees. Trouble was, those benefits cost too much, especially the toilet cleaners who'd been with the company for 40 years. Ended up laying 'em all off and contracting with maintenance firms to get the job done, cheaper.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        re: Erik4872

        Yes, that would be Hyundai, as an example of vertically integrated companies (or is it chaebol.)

  15. Stevie

    Bah!

    "conservation easements"

    Appletalk for "we bought our way round the law".

    Well, it's the American Way.

  16. bill 36

    Money grows on trees

    Its not like me to defend Apple but i'm going to.

    Apple very likely bought into forestry investment years ago. In the UK and probably many other places, its a tax efficient investment and sustainable.

    Every manufacturer knows the value of quality packaging so they are managing that in a tax efficient manner.

    Since we all like a nice new box to open when we buy a new product, i think its unfair to criticise them.

    If we didn't get the shiny new box with a product, we probably wouldn't buy it. Therefore we are all culpable.

    I'm quite sure though, that its not apple trees they're cutting down.

  17. Colin Tree

    it's personal

    They're chopping down my cousins, it's personal.

    Just don't package, hand the customer their phone, laptop, etc.

    The customer puts the item in a bag, nothing goes in the bin.

    1. ChrisBedford

      Re: it's personal

      "Just don't package, hand the customer their phone, laptop, etc.

      The customer puts the item in a bag, nothing goes in the bin."

      You're trolling, right?

  18. Tromos

    The wrong end of the stick

    What's all this about forests? Apple are talking about conservation of profits.

  19. WaddoSmiles

    Hilarious hatred.

  20. oneeye

    Save A Tree......Burn more Coal !

    As we all know,co2 is great for plant growth,and Apple is doing their part. They must use massive amounts of every kind of Energy to feed that Corporate Giant. Including the energy to produce those boxes. Don't forget transport, that includes all the driving their employees do. Boy,I could go on and on,but you get the idea. I wonder if Timboy has a private jet too! Someone really should figure Apples carbon foootprint,and then calculate just how many tree's Apple saves every year.

    And now,a really big,big thank you to the author for the witty phrase "FRUITY FOLKS" because I am going to have Soooooo much FUN with that! I can't wait to hit the forums and comments sections.LOL

  21. TheDillinquent
    Big Brother

    If they really wanted to be 'green' they'd use hemp paper

    I'm sure Jobsie would approve of that.

  22. Rick Brasche

    well, good idea actually

    if they stick with it, not only can they work off of replanting "sustainable" operations, but can also add all sorts of marketing buzz with special breeds of trees that can only be found in Apple packaging or something.

  23. Neil Barnes Silver badge
    WTF?

    I'm just trying to work out

    How a company whose business model is dependent on supplying items intended to be discarded at the whim of fashion and a regular upgrade cycle - and which cannot themselves be upgraded - can boast of green credentials.

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