back to article Stress me, test me, vex me ... boffins seek Hall Effect in frustrated magnets

Scientists believe a new finding could help future advanced electronics research – and it's all courtesy of some frustrated magnets. The results of a new experiment could help reveal more details about the way the frictionless transmission of electricity works, it has been claimed. Boffins at Princeton University in the US …

  1. Mage Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Sounds Interesting.

    I wish I understood it though.

    1. James 51

      Re: Sounds Interesting.

      That's the oldest joke about quantum mechanics. If you think you understand it, you don't.

      1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        Re: Sounds Interesting.

        Surely you understand and don't understand it until someone asks you?

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Mark 85

        Re: Sounds Interesting.

        Not quite the "there's a cat and it's in this box....." But a good effort. I needed the chuckle.

  2. elDog

    I don't know about quantum stuff, but I do know about frustration

    I bet that physicists and biologists will find out that frustration is yet another force, probably more powerful than the strong/weak/gravitational (and whatever else is out there.)

    Isn't that what drives biology? Or causes friction? Or perhaps gravitation and dark matter? Just stuff lurking out there frustrated that nobody loves it.

    1. Andy Non Silver badge
      Angel

      Re: I don't know about quantum stuff, but I do know about frustration

      Some day physicists will discover the frustrino.

      1. elDog

        Re: I don't know about quantum stuff, but I do know about frustration

        And the frustrino's "damn-that-was-good" anti-particle which is particularly ephemeral.

      2. Captain DaFt

        Re: I don't know about quantum stuff, but I do know about frustration

        "Some day physicists will discover the frustrino."

        Should be easy enough. In theory, all you need to generate clouds of frustinos is to interact with anyone generating a stupidity field. (Unfortunately, a far from uncommon event.)

        1. PNGuinn
          Go

          Re: I don't know about quantum stuff, but I do know about frustration

          Don't forget the warm cup of tea!

        2. Terje

          Re: I don't know about quantum stuff, but I do know about frustration

          You need to make sure the stupidity field is strong enough to cause an interaction of high enough energy to create real and not only virtual frustrinos. These experiments need to be conducted under extreme care though as the predicted properties of frustrinos indicate that they will accumulate in the core of the non stupidity field generating entity. Given the frustrinos surprisingly long half life, they risk accumulating to a critical mass causing at best a violent outburst and in worst case a stroke.

          1. TeeCee Gold badge

            Re: I don't know about quantum stuff, but I do know about frustration

            Well there's an election coming up and campaigning is well under way. That should mean we're currently surrounded by a stupidity field well into the hundreds of megaduhs.

            Sounds like the perfect opportunity to indulge in some serious science with high-energy frustrinos.

      3. F Seiler

        Re: I don't know about quantum stuff, but I do know about frustration

        Not sure if those were not already used to power Marvin.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I don't know about quantum stuff, but I do know about frustration

        A frustrino sounds like the perfect name for any new dark matter particle they find, or don't.

    2. phil dude
      Boffin

      Re: I don't know about quantum stuff, but I do know about frustration

      Biology is driven by thermodynamics.

      "Equilibrium is death" (one of my Oxford lecturers).

      P.

  3. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. Ragsofwar

    It looks like the ability to beam objects/people up is comming closer to reality (ex. an alien ship beaming subjects up).

  5. Tromos
    Joke

    You want entanglement?

    Come and see my cable cupboard!

  6. Ian Johnston Silver badge

    I strongly suspect that article to have been written by the editors of Social Theory, getting their own back on Alan Sokal.

  7. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    C42 Quantum Communication Control Systems ..... AI@ITsWork

    What's to understand? Is the Future not a Virtual Reality Derivative with Options and Hedges leading Progress with CyberIntelAIgent Services and Servers Tending and Tendering to the Monitoring and Mentoring of CHAOS in the Madness of Mayhem Manufactured and Markets Manipulated ..... Clouds Hosting Advanced Operating Systems for Immaculately Resourced Assets of Unlimited Vital Force?

    NEUKlearer HyperRadioProActive IT ... It ain't dangerous and explosive like a Space Rocket Launch Program or Inter Continental Ballistic Missile Shield Project, it is considerably more disruptive and creative, powerful and destructive than anything like those Dream Ventures will ever be able to provide.

    And ignoring it delivers Perfect Perils and Surreal Strength with Stealthy Supply of Novel Intellectual Property ...... Base Zeroday Exploit Export Materiel ....... NEUKlearer Enriched MetaData. Imagine the Bounty and Relatively Free Source Availability in Entanglement with Engagement.

    Stress me, test me, vex me, ...... who dares win wins and leads in Greater IntelAIgent Gamesplays

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: C42 Quantum Communication Control Systems ..... AI@ITsWork

      And is the above PACT as factual as below and a Trick or Treat or Threat ....... and Persistent Advanced Cyber Treat/Threat/Truth and Novel Noble APP and Alien Phorm of Phishing? And is its IP a Western Confection or Eastern Delight or both and AI and New Real Deal Business Presence fronting Virtual Reality Product Placements ....... SMARTR IntelAIgent Systems trailing and trialling Near Future Perfect Enough Narratives ........ Heavenly Scripts?

      https://youtu.be/w918Eh3fij0

      Of ARGonauts and Algorithms, have you seen nothing really yet. The Sublime InterNetworking of Such Things is only just Starting in Leading AI Platforms for the News and the New .... In the Beginning were there Always Immaculate Phorms and Stealthy Phishes.

      Capiche? Or does one wallow and drown in the Ignorance and Apathy of Austere Arrogance and MAD Media Manipulation of Movements and Masses?

      1. Stuart Moore
        Happy

        Re: C42 Quantum Communication Control Systems ..... AI@ITsWork

        This is a good time to mention that I like the way that the article authors often join in the comments.

  8. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Captain DaFt

      "Can somebody explain to me how this is supposed to work?"

      Well, I am not a physicist, but my take on it as follows:

      Picture the electrons as little spinning gears, for arguments sake.

      In normal non-magnetic materials, the electrons aren't oriented, and their spins are all in different directions, like gears facing in all directions. The total magnetism is null.

      In magnetic materials, the electrons are aligned, and their spins have the same orientation, like aligned, but unmeshed gears. Their 'torque' is aligned, giving rise to a total magnetic field.

      In frustrated magnets, the gears are aligned, but 'meshed', so each electron's spin causes its neighbor to spin in the opposite direction. Total magnetic field is null, like normal non-magnetic materials, but aligned, like magnetic materials.

      Apparently, the theory they're testing is that it's the alignment, and not the total magnetic field that generates the Hall Effect, at least that's my unschooled take on it.

      Anyone have a better understanding?

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: "Can somebody explain to me how this is supposed to work?"

        I haven't read any of the related work myself, and don't know that I have the background for it if I did, but coincidentally today ran across this piece, which mentions a theory that magnetic monopoles might be found in spin ice:

        http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/materials/the-hunt-for-the-magnetic-monopole

        That might be of interest to folks looking for more background on this area.

  9. TeeCee Gold badge

    ABS?

    Actually I think you'll find that the first common automotive application of the Hall effect was in distributors, using magnetic triggering to produce exact spark timing at all revolutions[1].

    Even called a "Hall effect distributor" to give the game away.

    [1] If you work out how many zaps per second there are in a four-pot engine at 3000rpm, you start to understand why an undamped bent spring and cam operating contacts doesn't really cut it in this department.

    1. BristolBachelor Gold badge
      Coat

      Re: ABS?

      Most ABS sensors that I have seen are actually inductive. Not a bad idea considering that coils of wire are a lot more robust than pieces of silicon and high-gain amplifiers.

      As for the reason for doing away with mechanical points in ignition systems, you only have to look at a set after a few thousand miles to know that a transistor could do a better job. Add in the fact that the advance timing for optimum spark doesn't just depend on manifold vacuum, and you'll probably want to calculate the optimum time for the spark, and drive the coil electronically.

  10. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. JeffyPoooh

      "...my copy on cassette somewhere."

      Bad news I'm afraid... Some time ago, your wife was tidying up your old junk. She put the "magnets" game cassette tape into a box with all your other old magnets.

      Sorry...

  11. JeffyPoooh
    Pint

    Well? Did they or not?

    Well? Did the frustrated magnets exhibit the Hall Effect or not?

    It's as if the author left out the answer to the question asked at the top.

    1. Sureo

      Re: Well? Did they or not?

      They just want to make sure you understand the term 'frustrated'.

    2. BristolBachelor Gold badge

      Re: Well? Did they or not?

      and what did they find out about "the way the frictionless transfer of electricity works"? Mr Ohm is spinning in his grave as I write this.

      1. Swarthy

        Re: Well? Did they or not?

        Mr Ohm is spinning in his grave as I write this.
        Has anyone wired him up as a dynamo yet?

  12. Missing Semicolon Silver badge
    Happy

    Love the experimental rig

    Real boffin-grade hot glue and gold wire!

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