back to article Is this what Windows XP's death throes look like?

It's the first of the month (US time), so off we go to Netmarketshare and Statcounter to see what operating systems are getting a run on the world's desktop computers. Our long series of stories on the two analysts' output has shown, time and again, that Windows XP is just-about-unkillable. Despite Microsoft ceasing support, …

  1. ThatGuy

    Oh wow...

    Linux has less market share than Vista? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Too funny.

    1. 45RPM Silver badge

      Re: Oh wow...

      Yup, it's fair to say that there aren't that many intelligent, independently-minded, people in the world. Which is why most people use Windows. Windows is adequate, there's lots of it about (like the common cold), and so yer average luser will put up with it without pondering whether another OS might be more suited to their needs.

      From what I've seen, the average (just the basics) user would be better served by a nice ChromeBook. A gamer probably does need Windows (although a console might do nicely too). And power users should, and do, turn their thoughts to some kind of Linux / Unix variant.

      1. Archaon
        Trollface

        Re: Oh wow...

        "(although a console might do nicely too)"

        Instafail. Back in your box.

        1. 45RPM Silver badge

          Re: Oh wow...

          @Archaon

          I'm not a gamer, so please indulge my curiosity. Why wouldn't a console do? Surely it depends on the game type? I mean, something like Civilization wouldn't work on console, I see that. And I'm told that big FPS games don't translate well either. But is it not the case that, for some games, a console might be preferable?

          Off topic, I know.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Oh wow...

            I didn't get that either. I play on my PC and on a console. The console provides a very good gaming environment and is my preferred option.

            I'm not saying it will be everyone's preferred option but there's lots to like about it. It's tru that the graphics are often better on a good PC with a recent graphics card but for me the improvement isn't big enough for me to care about..... in the language of the kids, for me it's all about the game play :-)

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Oh wow...

            > Why wouldn't a console do?

            Keyboard. Mouse. That is all.

            > I mean, something like Civilization wouldn't work on console, I see that. And I'm told that big FPS games don't translate well either.

            OK it wasn't all. Didn't you just really answer your question? I want a machine which can play ALL games, not just the subset which happen to be available in walled garden #1 with a stupid interface form factor.

            For sake of disclosure, I do own a console (or two), but also heavily use a decent Windows gaming PC. With Linux in a VM for "Real Work".

            1. MJI Silver badge

              Re: Oh wow... - Keyboard & Mouse

              Unfortunately for me it feels too much like the tools of work, rather than the tools of play.

              For a lot of IT staff a console is a better bet because it is NOT a PC like they use at work all day. (Yes I know about graphics card, and yes my sons PCs graphics cards cost more than some basic PCs).

              So sit at a desk all day using a PC, not so much fun to do the same for gaming.

              So for me to slob out on the settee with a controller is relaxing, nothing to do with frames per second or resolution, but it is not like work.

            2. Uffish

              Re: "decent Windows gaming PC"

              From a quick look at the article and comments I guess that the commentators here are not at all representative of the pc and internet using public.

              It looks like people here prefer the minority choices (eg linux or win8.1). Either that or all the winfans are running XP.

          3. Archaon

            Re: Oh wow...

            Keyboard and mouse aside, if you compare gaming to productivity then gaming on a console is akin to working on a 7 year old workstation. They get some leeway out of being optimised platforms running (hopefully) optimised software, rather than general purpose machines with general purpose software, but they're generally underpowered. The new and shiny consoles (Xbox One and Playstation 4) are struggling to run a lot of new "AAA" games (i.e. big budget games akin to Hollywood films) at a decent frame rate and/or 1080p resolutions.

            Don't get me wrong, I do like to kick back on the sofa with a console (I have many). I'm also not ashamed to admit that I quite regularly plug a console controller into my PC because for that game it's preferable for me. But bottom line saying that you can replace a Windows gaming PC with a console is like saying you can replace your workstation with an android tablet. It does the same job to an extent, but you lose a hell of a lot in the process.

            1. Fading
              Happy

              Re: Oh wow...

              My nephew is using my 9 year old workstation as his gaming rig (Dual Xeon Dell Precision) . Doesn't seem to suffer too much :)

          4. jabuzz

            Re: Oh wow...

            To be honest the best platform for something like Civilization is a tablet. It's head and shoulders above a PC.

      2. John 172

        Re: Oh wow...

        Just yesterday I had Linux (Ubuntu 10 LTS distro) completely fail to boot. Did it's mini boot text then just hung, repeatedly on every reboot, in recovery mode too. The cause, a new GPU. The BIOS had mapped the GPU into a 64-address space, the 32-bit OS decided that it would try and use it anyway with disastrous results. A warning that the device was misconfigured would have been nice but this is Linux, a hard lockup of the kernel is much nicer! Until tatty stuff like this doesn't happen anymore regular users don't stand a chance.

        1. Adair Silver badge

          Re: Oh wow, John 172

          Look, if you want Windows, use it. If you want OSX, use it, etc. (ad nauseum). But, don't come whining about how something doesn't work when the whole philosophy of what you are whining about is that it is a hairy work in progress---if that is a problem to you you are clearly in the wrong game and do not, or will not (maybe even cannot), understand the rules of play.

          Linux is not for everyone, nor every use case, but it clearly is also an accessible, usable, and effective solution for a large number of users and their needs. My wife knows nothing about what makes a computer tick, but gets on fine with her Lubuntu laptop (and all I have ever had to do with it is an occasional update).

          OTOH my desktop, running Mint (and occasional experiments), needs fettling on and off because I persist in fiddling with it---I'm sorry, but I can't help it, it's why I enjoy using Linux, because I am free to play around breaking things, fixing them, learning stuff, and generally enjoying my non-work (work means Windows) computing experience.

          So, by all means wallow in your chosen pit of despair, but please don't kid yourself that because you haven't chosen what someone else has that their choice is fundamentally more stupid than yours. I am quite aware that my choice is the superior one.

          1. Archaon
            Linux

            Re: Oh wow, John 172

            "But, don't come whining about how something doesn't work when the whole philosophy of what you are whining about is that it is a hairy work in progress---if that is a problem to you you are clearly in the wrong game and do not, or will not (maybe even cannot), understand the rules of play."

            LTS releases are meant to be stable releases supported over a considerable timeframe. To paraphrase Ubuntu/Canonical, aside from support length the tenets of the LTS releases are enterprise focused, hardware compatibility and improved testing.

            I appreciate that in this case it's just a freak bug and these things happen (to any platform). The fact that you consider it acceptable for any 'stable' release - let alone something that's described as LTS - to be a 'hairy work in progress' suggests that it's you who doesn't understand "the play".

            Messing with your own system is fair enough, seeing it's limits, breaking it, learning how to fix it? That's all good. Fair play to you. But to have you claim someone 'doesn't get it' when they're specifically using a LTS release - probably because of the reasons mentioned above - boggles my mind. Bottom line is that someone screwing about with their PC at home is all well and good, but it is not "the game". Business is the game. To think otherwise is, to quote your good self, "stupid".

            Thankfully the majority of the Linux community understands that acceptance is more important than the ability to accidentally break stuff and has been consistently working to reduce the latter, resulting in a stable platform that can actually be used.

            1. Danny 14

              Re: Oh wow, John 172

              don't you pay a subscription on consoles to multiplayer? How quaint.

            2. Adair Silver badge

              Re: Oh wow, John 172

              "Business is the game. To think otherwise is, to quote your good self, "stupid"." - Archaon

              O, dear me no! Business is PART of the game, it definitely is not THE game, and that is why so many people end up whining, because they think that their particular interest/need defines 'the game'.

              <arbitrary OS> has its niggling bugs, some of them are show stoppers for certain people's needs/hardware, and that really ticks us off when it happens to us, but the chances are that the vast majority are sailing on, blissfully unaware of our pain.

              Linux, far more so than any of the proprietary OSs, currently encapsulates the ideal and necessity of being free do do what you like with a computer. If that means business, go for it, but it may mean science, arts, whatever.

              The moment we expect our computing kit to 'just work' with no responsibility or understanding (note, that is not the same as knowledge) on our part is the moment we want an appliance not a computer. And the moment we want an appliance is the moment when all we can really do is whine when our magic box doesn't behave the way we want or expect, assuming, of course, it doesn't break the terms of that lovely EULA, and local trading standards law.

              LTS, or not, If we are paying good money for our computing needs to be supported we're entitled to demand someone fixes our problem, assuming it falls within the contract. If we've got our OS, etc. for free (as in beer) then, I'm sorry, we take what we get, we are grateful, and we don't feel ripped off when it's crap because, after all, we didn't give anything for it---seems like a fair trade to me.

              We're always quite free to take our itch/pain and see if another OS/application will do the job properly, we might pay someone to meet the need, or we might even do it ourselves.

              When it comes to 'Linux' and Free/Opensource software 'Business' is a 'use case', it isn't 'the game'.

        2. John H Woods Silver badge

          Re: Oh wow...

          I don't understand why you would put a new GPU in a 64 bit machine running a 3 year old version of a 32bit OS that went out of support two years ago. And I really don't understand why you expected it to work seamlessly. And I really don't understand why you would consider the failure of this edge case to allow you to infer very much at all beyond the specific instance you describe.

        3. Jamiroph

          Re: Oh wow...

          Just yesterday I had an issue with an operating system that was end of life two years ago.....

          Slow clap.

        4. Richard Plinston

          Re: Oh wow...

          > The cause, a new GPU. The BIOS had mapped the GPU into a 64-address space

          So you swapped the video card, the BIOS misconfigured it and Linux had nowhere to output a visible message !

          Would Windows have done a better job of this ?

          "Regular users" don't usually swap around the guts of the machine.

        5. CFWhitman

          Re: John172 Re: Oh wow...

          Well, of course we have the obvious mitigations. That is, the operating system is five years old and the hardware that caused a problem is new. Desktop support ended two years ago and server support will end this month. You are using the 32 bit version, while the 64 bit version would probably work without incident.

          However, even though these factors help to explain this incident, they're not what I thought of first. What I thought of first is that this is exactly the type of thing that is less common with Linux than with Windows. Do you realize how rare it is for Linux not to boot? The only times I have had a kernel panic were due to either failing hardware or hacking a system together from backups while accidentally leaving out necessary steps. Generally with Linux I can take a hard drive from one system and put it into another system which is an entirely different model and still have it boot up, sometimes working perfectly with no adjustments and other times needing a bit of tweaking to make it act perfectly normal. That didn't used to work for Windows ever, though it is more likely to work now.

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
            Linux

            Re: John172 Oh wow...

            "Generally with Linux I can take a hard drive from one system and put it into another system which is an entirely different model and still have it boot up, sometimes working perfectly with no adjustments and other times needing a bit of tweaking to make it act perfectly normal. That didn't used to work for Windows ever, though it is more likely to work now."

            FWIW, that was the case until Windows XP too apart from the NT line of Windows. Certainly 95 and 98 would boot on moving the HDD to another PC although audio/video/CD drivers would need replacing.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: John172 Oh wow...

              "Certainly 95 and 98 would boot on moving the HDD to another PC although audio/video/CD drivers would need replacing."

              That was only really true if moving to the same chipset, i.e. Intel > Intel, Via > Via, AMD > AMD, any kind of crossover would usually result in a BSOD.

              These days, if Windows doesn't boot up and handle it happily, safe mode and uninstalling the 'Computer' driver in Device Manager along with any motherboard controller drivers generally sorts the issue without a complete OS re-install.

    2. Lee D Silver badge

      Re: Oh wow...

      Linux has never been big on desktop.

      Would you like to re-run that survey for the OS that SERVED the website in the first place? Although Windows has made huge strides in that area, Linux is far from being marginalised.

      And then let's do mobile OS, rather than desktop OS as the survey does. Android currently outsell Apple 3:1 and... oh... where's Windows?

      It's like being shocked that Rolls Royce don't sell many Transit-like vans, or that Skoda don't make many aircraft engines. It's a lack of understanding of markets and, I'm afraid, it just shows your ignorance.

      But... in true Nelson fashion HAHA! Linux. Yeah. What an OS that's not deployed on hundreds of millions of devices....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Oh wow...

        "Would you like to re-run that survey for the OS that SERVED the website in the first place?"

        Oh here we go, the penguinistas coming out defending their OS. Can't they just get over the fact that the Linux Distro Anarchy is its single biggest problem, that "its greatest strength" is actually a huge f*****g monumental block to its widespread adoption outside the land of geeks, nerds and con artists? And that the anarchy actually serves to create huge numbers of extra jobs inside server-land simply because it causes a load of extra unnecessary work, and they get away with it because their bosses see "free" and think that it must be a good thing?

        Give me strenght.

        1. hplasm
          Windows

          Re: Oh wow...

          "Give me strenght."

          And a decent spellchecker.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Oh wow...

            @hplasm

            And a decent spell checker

            To be honest I'm not sure I spelt 'fucking' right either...

          2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
            Joke

            Re: Oh wow...

            "Give me strenght."

            And a decent spellchecker.

            ...and we'll move the word!

        2. 45RPM Silver badge

          Re: Oh wow...

          @AC

          Distro Anarchy? Oh! You mean choice. But this really is a case of having your cake - and eating it. If you want the ultimate flexibility in your OS, with your choice of tools, then you can roll your own (or possibly find one pre-rolled by someone who shares your aims.)

          If you'd rather forgo the 'Anarchy*', you can choose Mac OS X or Ubuntu (and others, I'm sure), to benefit from a stable platform, maintained by someone other than yourself, but still enjoy the benefits of Unix and Linux power. If you don't need that much power, the ChromeOS (another Linux variant) has your back.

          I suspect that you don't really care that much though. You're a dyed in the wool Windows fanboy, and you don't want to investigate, much less use, anything else. But that's your loss, kiddo.

          *your words

          1. tony2heads
            Trollface

            Re: Oh wow...

            Yup, you can't claim to be a 1337 h4x0r without compiling your own custom kernel

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @45RPM

            "If you don't need that much power, the ChromeOS (another Linux variant) has your back."

            And hand over even more personal data to google than the bastards steal already? No thanks.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              @ Pete H

              I understand about the keyboard mouse combo for some games, although controllers have got so much better that I no longer miss them..... apart from a very few games.

              However, you don't get all games on the PC as some only come out on the console or come out first on the console. Of course the inverse is also true but 99.9% of games I want to play are available on a console and in a state where I don't feel I'm missing out much compared to the PC version, if it exists.

              In one respect comparing a console to a 7 year old PC is a gross exaggeration, unless you're looking further ahead into the console's life and you've got a new PC.

              On the other hand you could argue that most 5 year old PC workstations do the job they need to do just fine and a user probably wouldn't even notice the "upgrade" to a new one.

              Coming back to the console what I like is that I don't have to pay so much for a good graphics card and nor do I have to upgrade it every few years. I also get the same experience as everyone else rather than finding I can't use the latest flash graphics feature because my graphics card doesn't support it or that my specific combo of CPU, memory and graphics card causes the game to crash from time to time.

              I'm not saying console games are bug free, they're certainly not but fixes tend to come faster because everyone's running the same kit. Sometimes on the PC I've been stuck with what the developer must consider a "rare" problem and it's taken an age to get it fixed.

            2. 45RPM Silver badge

              Re: @45RPM

              @AC

              "And hand over even more personal data to google than the bastards steal already? No thanks."

              I'll up vote that. I agree with you. But I'm not most users - and I suspect that you aren't either. I'm not a member of FaceBook for exactly the same reason, and I stay out of the cloud.

              Thing is that most people don't care - the argument about security has been had, and the geeks lost. Government, Google and Facebook won. Most people are delighted to abdicate responsibility for their digital lives, handing it over lock, stock, the f*cking lot to someone else. And, if they're going to do that anyway, surely it also makes sense for them to save a few bob over a 'proper' computer with a 'proper' OS and buy a ChromeBook instead?

              I've played with ChromeOS. The latest versions are very nice indeed. Very easy. Perfect for someone who doesn't care about IT and couldn't give a shit about security either. Just not for me.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: @45RPM

                There is an alternative view on Chromebooks and security - http://www.chromebookworld.com/2015/02/26/6-not-13-steps-to-improved-security-and-privacy-with-a-chromebook/

        3. Fatman
          Joke

          Re: Oh wow...

          Oh here we go, the penguinistas coming out defending their OS. ...

          I didn't know that ElReg allowed YOU to comment here, Loverock Davidson?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Lee D

        Here, have a snickers.....

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        hah hah

        There again with the 'Android is linux' claim. Android is a crap load of spyware, authored by google, stuck on top of an os kernel that google chose to steal rather than spend money writing themselves. But yeah, well done the penguin!! You have surely out foxed all of those us corporates to dominate the world!

        1. Mikel

          Re: hah hah

          Steal? Dave Cutler stole NT from Digital. If you want to talk about OS stealing.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @ThatGuy - Re: Oh wow...

      You're missing one point here, pal!

      Linux has that market share without a vendor pushing/shoving it and without any one single dollar being spend on marketing. How's that for you ?

      Remember, Windows it's like the belly-button. You don't have to do anything to get it and it actually is pretty difficult to avoid getting one.

      1. 45RPM Silver badge

        Re: @ThatGuy - Oh wow...

        @AC "Remember, Windows it's like the belly-button. You don't have to do anything to get it and it actually is pretty difficult to avoid getting one.”

        It’s an amusing aphorism, but slightly flawed. Windows didn’t come with my Asus or DFI mobos. It didn’t come with my Mac, or with my Raspberry Pi. I chose to buy a copy (because development, and I’m an OS whore - I’ll go with all of them), but I had to go out of my way to get it.

        Granted, most people will get Windows just because they bought a PC - but it’s very easy nowadays to opt out of having any Microsoft software on your machine. But, and I realise that this view is controversial, I have to say that Microsoft software today is, IMO, better than it’s ever been.

    4. enormous cow turd

      Re: Oh wow...

      Linux (branded as Android) seems to be doing quite well - I have 4x Android devices (Phone, Tablet 2x TVs) 1x iPhone, 1x WinXP Laptop, 1x Win7 Laptop - so that's 5x Unix derived devices against 1x Current Windows + 1x MS Abandonware. So yes - you're right, Linux never did very well on the desktop, but that isn't where the battle for users is anymore - it's on consumer devices - and MS has already lost that market.

  2. Ole Juul

    web or not

    “this is what we see hitting web servers”

    That's an obvious, and perhaps the only realistic way to go about this, but I have a feeling that there are quite a few machines running XP which are no longer (or perhaps never were) connected to the net.

    1. Gray
      Holmes

      Re: web or not

      Four machines in this household alone, running dual-boot: WinXP to run essential (and expensive) legacy software; and Debian 8 Linux, for web research, finances and banking, and email.

      Two things that don't show up: none of those machines expose WinXP to the 'net or to trackers, so it's under the radar; and Microsoft will never realize another penny from this household. As for Linux, it does the job and nobody is keeping score. It's all about as relevant as tracking what OS is running the systems in one's family car.

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: web or not

        Whilst you might be correct reports like this are needed to keep at least some of those ANALysist's in gainful employment.

        After all there is only so many times they can write articles (sorry fiction) stating that company XXXXX is doomed and everyone should sell their stock today.

        Where is the...

        won't someone think of the analysist's icon when you need it?

      2. Peter Gathercole Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: "Microsoft will never realize another penny from this household"

        I'm sorry to say that all the time Microsoft get royalties for the FAT patents, or any of the patents owned by MPEG LA or any of the other patents Microsoft defend but will only tell people about under an NDA, you cannot definitively make that statement.

    2. bazza Silver badge

      Re: web or not

      "That's an obvious, and perhaps the only realistic way to go about this, but I have a feeling that there are quite a few machines running XP which are no longer (or perhaps never were) connected to the net."

      You're probably right, but then there's the old adage, "Does it really exist if it is not connected to the Internet?".

      Those machines might be nothing other than an abstract philisophical construct.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: web or not

      650 here!

    4. Stuart 22

      Re: web or not

      The issue for us is we want to provide more secure websites than we have IPs.

      No problem with SNI except for mostly the WinXP/IE fraternity. Use SNI and we screw them. Much as I would wish to - our clients don't fancy losing 16% of their users. And it is very variable depending on the demographic of the website. We have a few still getting 35%+ WinXP/IE.

      Way to go yet I fear frustrating the upcoming salvation that is Let's Encrypt.

  3. Tufty Squirrel

    Gosh

    It's almost down to Windows 8 levels.

  4. cosymart

    Interenal Systems

    I was in my bank yesterday and all of their terminals are still running XP non of these ever go near the internet. I suspect that this scenario can be repeated in all banks and insitutions.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Interenal Systems

      "I was in my bank yesterday and all of their terminals are still running XP"

      And quite possibly they're still supported and getting updates too, if it's the Windows XP PoS (that's Point of Sale) variant, which is the same as Windows XP the rest of us knew, but packaged and licenced differently.

      There's even a relatively widely reported registry hack to turn your ordinary XP into an XP PoS so it carries on getting its updates. See e.g:

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/26/german_tinkerer_gets_around_xpocalypse/

  5. Matthew Smith

    Finally replacing it at work

    I'm steadily upgrading people's machines here at long last from XP to Windows 8. This upgrade is only happening now because :

    1. The latest Avast anti-virus is blue-screening the XP machines.

    2. Our account with Dell is giving us very nice Win 8 machines for only £300.

    And most importantly :

    3. I've discovered Classic Shell, which installs over Windows 8 and removes the 8 part, making it usable.

    Windows 8 is a serious impediment to people migrating away from XP. Without ClassicShell, I wouldn't be doing it now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Finally replacing it at work

      I mostly agree there and yet Windows 8.1 does bring back some ease compared to the clusterf*ck that 8.0 was and as such I've just been on a large local gov project where they are moving to Win 8.1 for both fat client and VDI and UAT has been overwhelmingly positive.

      Given local gov users tend to be very anti-change, that really did surprise me.

    2. Lee D Silver badge

      Re: Finally replacing it at work

      I'm on my second sucessful Windows 8 deployment already. I work for schools.

      The first came from XP several years ago, and we just wiped everything out and started again with modern servers, desktop OS, office suite. I put Classic Shell on, nobody really cared after the first week of using it what was under the hood. I had infinitely more requests for help with Office toolbars than anything to do with the OS or start menu (and zero user-training, I might add). It was only when I explained that Windows XP was OLDER than the children who were leaving the school - that they'd probably NEVER seen an XP install in their lives except for at school - that it hit home. And the user training proved it - nobody needed to be show how to login, etc. as they were already using 7 or 8 at home anyway. It was only the Office mail-merges and stuff that you can't find as easily now that baffled them, because everything else they had been doing at home for years anyway.

      Then I moved to another school. Same situation, but they'd had one "failed" deployment of 8. I did it all over again (a brave decision as a new IT guy), upgraded every server to the latest versions and every desktop to 8 but with Classic Shell. It's what we're still running, as nobody really found fault with that. It just works. It's like 7, people say, but slightly different but - for the bits they use - those differences mean precisely squat.

      I rolled out a public VM earlier in the year to let the older kids play with Windows 10. Looks like a smooth road ahead of us as that's basically 8 with Classic Shell built-in, from what we saw.

      Two deployments. Hundreds of desktops, laptops, all-in-ones, etc. Thousands of users. Major working practice changes. Almost zero user training. Dozens of pieces of obscure and old software. Dozens of odd bits of expensive hardware (data loggers, smartboards, visualisers, etc.) Biggest complaint? Really, really, really old Lego USB towers don't work on 64-bit systems (not even 8-specific, there is just no 64-bit capable driver for them, but I only roll out 64-bit nowadays). One bit of ancient French software that you can't buy any more and which was built on some kind of unheard-of predecessor to Flash (HPlayer) which hasn't itself been updated in nearly a decade crashed when you clicked a certain option.

      If anything, all 8 does is mean I only need a single image for EVERY machine in the building. I have literally used one image (updated with software etc. but with almost zero drivers in it) to roll out dozens of different models of desktop, laptop and all-in-one machine and I think I had one machine which it didn't like the hardware (an old MSI all-in-one where I had to tweak the touchscreen drivers).

      PXE boot, install image, walk away no matter what the machine is. 20 minutes later, full desktop with Metro AND start menu (user preference), can run basically anything you like, and is at least a supported Microsoft OS. And, you know what? Users don't even care.

      Last time I hosted a technical conference for one of the pieces of school management software I use, we were the only school on 8 and people were shocked it was that easy. I even had to log into a school machine in the conference to show them that - actually - there's nothing important there that you can't GPO out of the way or use Classic Shell to make better. Even the software developers had no clue that 8 ran their software that easily and without any changes. I was asking about their plans for Windows 10 and they'd barely tested 8.

      The problem with 8 is not 8. It's people running scared of it for no good reason.

      1. jason 7

        Re: Finally replacing it at work

        My findings exactly. It's mostly fear mongering.

        I rolled out a lot of Windows 8/8.1 machines last year and didn't have issues with any of them. I just installed Classic Start and spent 15 mins or so with the customer just showing them what was new (as you would expect from leaping from XP to 8+).

        Thumbs up all round. Some folks just make things sound far more difficult than they really are. But their voices do tend to carry a long way.

        1. Lee D Silver badge

          Re: Finally replacing it at work

          Agreed.

          If Classic Start Menu weren't MSI-deployable and GPO-controlled, then it might be a different matter.

          But, hell, you can roll it out, reconfigure it, and remove it within seconds with any decent deployment.

          In fact, I think CSM has more GPO options for it than anything Microsoft has ever provided for its own start menu / desktop.

          Like I say, I let users decide what interface they use but I literally just push out the first-time options of "Don't use Metro" and some performance/cosmetic options (remove transparency, put the school logo as the start button, put the school name down the side of the start menu, etc.). User's get a first-time setup on their next login and can choose to have Windows key do Start or Metro (while Shift-Win always does the opposite for them so they never lose options) and whether or not to show Metro on login (no big deal if they just have to press Win to get to it anyway).

          Before they had a GPO, I fiddled and deployed but wasn't happy with the solution. The day the GP template came out, with EVERY option on it, I was convinced. I didn't give it a second thought at my next deployment. Hell, I have more problems with things like Chrome (GPO's not comprehensive) and Firefox (no official GPO at all?) than CSM.

    3. DropBear

      Re: Finally replacing it at work

      "Without ClassicShell, I wouldn't be doing it now."

      Right you are, it's the first thing I installed on Win7 to make it bearable (only just - when it's impossible to avoid using it; the rest is XP all the way).

  6. Vince

    Is there a particular reason, other than making it look bad, why we split Windows 8.0 and Windows 8.1 up, but Max OS X is combined across all versions?

    We don't split "XP Service Pack 2" vs "XP Service Pack 3" which is a broad equivalent of the 8.0/8.1 debate.

    Presumably it is deliberately split in this manner - that's the problem with statistics.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I suppose one reason could be to show if 8.1 actually made any positive or negative impact?

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      "we" don't split anything, the various companies do it because it's attention grabbing. There is no good reason except for clickbait articles like this one.

    3. Mark 78

      I expect that Windows 8 and 8.1 are split, but XP SP2 and SP3 are not split, because the MS patches are different for 8 and 8.1 but would be the same (if they still existed) for XP SP2 and SP3.

    4. roblightbody

      Totally agree, it makes no sense. 8.0 to 8.1 was a free upgrade, they should be shown as the same product. By doing that, the chart looks quite different.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I have a laptop which was mis-sold on eBay as W7 - but was in fact a Linux model with the manufacturer's W7 installed. The W7 flags itself as an "Illegal Copy" - so it is reserved to be used for Linux experiments or hardware spares.

    When Microsoft offer a free W10 update for it - which appears to be their stance - then I will test whether the future replacement for my several XP/W7 PCs is W10 or Linux - or some combination of horses for courses. Some of my previous heavy investment in applications and peripherals is probably condemned to be on XP forever.

    1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

      Windows 365?

      There's enough conjecture in various forums to be credible that what Windows Vista and 7 users will be offered will be a years subscription to the currently unannounced Win10 Windows 365 pay-as-you-use offering, so tying people into a subscription model by the back door.

      Microsoft just will not give users of their old OSs something for free!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 365?

        Do some research Peter. This is public domain information and you are, once again, utterly wrong.

        1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

          Re: Windows 365?

          Please, Mr AC, post details of the exact Ts & Cs that Microsoft have committed to. If you like, you can also point to other posts in these forums where you have accused me of being wrong. Or, why not come out from behind that AC veil.

          Here is what Microsoft currently (I mean, like 5 minutes ago) say about the details from the Windows 10 upgrade page.

          "We will be sharing more information and additional offer and support terms in coming months.".

          And that is all they have to say about the Ts & Cs. I have looked, and there is nothing that I can find that Microsoft have said that would conflict with them making it an upgrade to a subscription model license. Please post a link that definitively rules this out. I will not accept any interpretation of the announcement from the technical journals without some corroborating evidence, because I think certain members of the press have been taken in by the statements as much as us mere users, and have jumped to the conclusions they want to hear.

          Yes, I have no direct evidence, and you can class what I am saying as FUD. But until the final details are published, jumping to the other conclusion about how generous this is is just as bad. Remember, this is Microsoft, who have a proven track record of uncompetitive business practices and lack of concern about their customer base that we are talking about.

          Oh. By the way. You might want to look at this.

        2. Richard Plinston

          Re: Windows 365?

          > Do some research Peter. This is public domain information and you are, once again, utterly wrong.

          What you seem to ignore is the parts of the announcements that qualify the 'free' with 'for the supported life of the device' or perhaps just the word 'supported'. You are eager to equate this to 'forever' or to 'the life of the OS'.

          Microsoft haven't explained this qualification yet, and have stated they will do so sometime in the future. It seems likely that 'the _supported_ life of the _device_' equates to the manufacturer's warranty period.

          Microsoft have also stated that 'versions' will become a thing of the past as they move to 'Windows as a service' with continual feature enhancements along with updates. The 'as a service' implies very strongly a subscription model like 'Office as a service 365'.

          After the first year after release it may well be that machines outside their warranty will require annual subscriptions to keep it running.

          Doing some research shows that Microsoft acknowledges that they haven't explained what will happen nor the phrases they have used. You have made up your mind what Microsoft will do in spite of them not deciding it yet, or at least not telling us.

          Were you the one that was insisting that Windows Phone 7 phones would get an upgrade to WP8 ? or that Surface tablets would be cheap ?

      2. P. Lee

        Re: Windows 365?

        I think you'll find they will.

        The reason for it is that its for home users only, who probably wouldn't upgrade their OS anyway for years if at all until a hardware refresh. Its worth it to MS get get back to a mono-culture to give devs an easier target to hit, rather than have them going for Vista, W7, W8 and W10. Plus, there are more options for cloudy revenue with 10.

        Otherwise there will be a further slide to OSX, tablets, Googley-type stuff. Linux may not have many corporate apps, but what happens when Android/ARM becomes adequate for the modest desktop? What happens if QT/LLVM work nicely, now that the web also has 3d graphics? Package up your app for Apache/Docker/Chrome rather than Windows and you have nightmare in Seattle. You can hit Windows, OSX and Linux in one go. Lots of that desktop-management infrastructure become irrelevant and the Windows ecosystem shrinks. Lots of companies already are going to the cloud - what happens when they make their desktop versions just a local copy of what they do in the cloud? That isn't windows software.

        MS aren't going away any time soon, but times are hard and in hard times, corporations don't spend money on upgrades they don't feel they need. W10 isn't really on the "need" list.

        1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

          Re: Windows 365? @P. Lee

          I can see that reinforcing a monoculture may be what MS are after, but I can also see the "hard times" putting pressure for MS to move to a different revenue stream, one that is on a per user basis, rather than on a per-purchase basis.

          The software vendors have often looked enviously at the way that IBM managed it's mainframe software model, which leads to it being one of the most consistent and regular income items on IBM's balance sheet. MS have already done Office 365, and I cannot see why they would not consider offering the same model for all of their software, including Windows. They've already trademarked "Windows 365".

          One of the interesting things that they have revealed is that in order to be considered for the Win10 free upgrade, a system has to be able to connect to the Internet, and has to have Windows Update turned on. Whilst this could be to prevent the offer being abused, it could also be trying to make sure that Win10 has a vector for license enforcement. This is me being speculative, but it's sometimes interesting to bat possibilities around.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Timing

    At least one customer of ours paid Microsoft for an extra year's support. And now that's running out, they're finally migrating off XP.

    Given the annual nature of support, it wouldn't be surprising to see downticks in XP usage round the anniversaries of its formal end of support, as the following year's support gets more and more expensive.

    1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

      Re: Timing

      I would love to see a breakdown of home/SOHO vs. commercial use of XP.

      I'm still of the opinion that XP will remain on a whole slew of home machines until those machines either break and are replaced, or can no longer be used because of being OS/browser blacklisted by sites on the Internet.

  9. BobRocket

    XP fighting back

    Installations of XP went up by one yesterday as I reinstalled it on an old Dell for the kids, they turn their noses up at Linux despite all having tablets/chromebooks etc.

    (it dual boots with Mint so I can fix the windows when they break it)

  10. graeme leggett Silver badge

    stats and precision

    "12.23 per cent to 11.12 per cent" - isn't that still likely to be within the margin of error of measurement?

  11. Christopher Lane
    Megaphone

    I see desktop OS's similar to TV dinners...

    With Windows (any flavour) and Mac (of which I am personally a fan) you "peel back the plastic lid" and just use it. With Linux however you have finely chop your kernel, marinade for hours and finally wash up pots, pans and plates when you're finished. Sure the Linux meal is tasty, more nutritious and all round a better gourmet experience. But with Windows et al you point...click...done (unless it serves you a BSOD which is why I like Macs more).

    Normal people (unlike us nerds, geeks etc) don't have the time or inclination to learn how to patch a kernel or remember/learn command the lengths of which wouldn't look out of place in an international conference for SHA-3 hashs etc.

    Dumbing down IT...yes. But then isn't that happening every where? Why are there more TOWIE, The X-Factor, Britain's Got Talent, The Voice etc but less things like Horizon or Tomorrows World (a moments silence please) on TV?

    In a world where you can do Events Management as a degree you will always have a prevalence of Point and Click OS's.

    1. itzman

      Re: I see desktop OS's similar to TV dinners...

      I have had more issues on Windows and MAC OSX than linux.

      Today's 'populist' linuxes are plug and play.

      I am sure s9meone is out there compiling a slackware kernel: I just sling a MInt disk in, reboot, and wait 40 minutes or less for a full blown desktop to emerge.

      1. Christopher Lane

        Re: I see desktop OS's similar to TV dinners...

        @itzman, @Peter and @Palpy.

        Guys, I agree with you all, just playing devils advocate. I'm not arguing at all and have installed CentOS, Mint and Fedora etc on many sites. But the biggest problem is educating people. When you get comments like "why won't office install" you realise people just don't get it. The biggest thing tying people to Windows is lack of knowledge, fear of the unknown and lastly (and on thinking about it further) the worlds reliance on Office, specifically Outlook. Sure there is Libre Office, Star Office and Open Office but that's not MS Office. Who is going to take the time to learn CardDav and CalDav when you can "peel back the plastic" like you've always done?

        @Palpy Some people like trying Lebanese food, however others will all ways stick to Sweet and Sour Chicken balls ;-)

        And Peter you're right, people like buying machines pre-installed and though it is pretty easy they still think it is some kind of black magic when it reality(at it's simplest) its click next, next, next, finish (watch it blue screen...I jest).

        It's easy changing a wheel but how many times do you see the AA or RAC out changing someone's wheel for them?

        1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

          @Cristopher Lane

          OK, so you have a user who has bought MS office to install on their home machine, and have tried to install it on a Linux system?

          The reason why people don't get it is because of the virtual mono-culture that Microsoft have managed to evolve by preventing vendors shipping machines with other OSs.

          Let's make the playing field level, shall we. Let's make all the system vendors have to ship and charge for a full retail license for Windows, and take away the lever Microsoft can use to prevent vendors shipping systems with Linux installed.

          Salesperson: Hello. I can offer you this machine with Windows at £500, or you can buy the same machine with Linux, for £450.

          Customer: Can I browse the Internet, play games and watch media on the Linux machine?

          Salesperson: Yes, with some restrictions, although the vendor has paid for all the licences to allow it to do all the normal things, and it's still cheaper.

          Customer: And can I write letters and spreadsheets?

          Salesperson: Yes, although you will have to use Libre Office, but then again, that is included, rather than costing you an additional £70.

          Customer: So I can save over £100 for the same machine! Where do I sign?

          Of course, it won't be quite like this, but if Microsoft had been prevented from blocking Linux 10 years ago, we would have been in a different place now.

          And don't quote Netbooks at me as a Linux failure. The versions of Linux that was shipped, and Microsoft effectively giving XP away after it was withdrawn from support poisoned that market.

          1. Christopher Lane

            Re: @Cristopher Lane

            100% agree with you Peter, MS have run rough shod over anybody who tries to stick their head above the parapet. More likely the user has "borrowed and offered to give save haven to the MS Office install disk and serial key" from a friend or relative but the outcome is the same. They can't load MS Office so they lose heart and are sucked back to MS Windows " 'cos on this Linux stuff you can't even run office!!!"

            I have constantly evangelised about Linux and Mac (the latter being a good half way house for Windows people as all the "scary" stuff is tucked away from sight) and have even had some success in getting people to play with Linux after they've seen Mac but not as much as I would like. Once the scales drop their eyes they often dig out the old machine from the loft, load a distro and behold, a Geek is born ;-)

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @Cristopher Lane

            Hah hah. More like:

            Vendors MD 'hey sales person, do not sell Linux based systems as they cost us a fortune to support during the warranty period. Customers call us all the time as nothing works like they expect'

            Sales person: 'ok'

            Vendors MD 'also, we cannot sell them other high margin products, like office, which is where we make most of our money'

            Sales person 'ok, I am starting to understand why Linux on the desktop I regarded as such a joke now'

            Vendor MD 'finally!'

            1. Richard Plinston

              Re: @Cristopher Lane

              > Vendors MD 'also, we cannot sell them other high margin products, like office, which is where we make most of our money'

              Exactly. Nor do they bring the Linux computers back after several months complaining that they run now dead slow so that they can be sold re-installation, upgrades, or faster replacements.

              Retailers and support make far more money selling Windows machines. They also get a higher margin and more revenue from Apple sales.

              Sell a Linux computer and the purchaser won't be seen for several years. Sell Windows and there will be repeat business and much profit ( = cost to the user).

      2. Adam 52 Silver badge

        Re: I see desktop OS's similar to TV dinners...

        At the risk of upsetting, that's not my experience. Ubuntu - one of the plug and play Linuxes - has failed on both of the machines I've tried it. First time because the display resolution wasn't supported and it went into a 1980 film version of a PC crash (fixed by modding the x config) and second because the installer couldn't cope with installing to an encrypted partition that it itself had created.

        Both I got working eventually but the experience was in no way as seamless as you'd hope or as people are suggesting here.

        I'm a small sample of course so I may be an exception.

    2. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

      Re: I see desktop OS's similar to TV dinners...

      How many times do we need to say this!

      Please try Ubuntu, Mint, Debian or maybe Fedora or SuSE. Install and run using the GUI just like any other OS, completely without using the command line. (OK, I accept that some of the restricted packages need to be added using the package manager, but hey! it tells you what you need to do, and that is only needed because of the restrictive licensing imposed by other parties on certain components).

      The only difference is that you can't buy systems with it already installed from any of the normal channels, and you have to actually install something yourself, but it's pretty easy for even novices.

    3. Palpy

      Re: I see desktop OS's similar to TV dinners...

      I also disagree with the idea of "difficult Linux". Like others, my experience is that at least Ubuntu, Mint, Manjaro, and Salix all run fine on first boot. On the machines I've tried, anyway.

      No big deal, though. For my home systems it's much easier to run Linux than to worry about Windows viruses and malware -- and it's nice to be off the "pay again for the newest Windows" merry-go-round.

      But in the sense that you can have a lot of microwave dishes in the fridge and choose whichever you want, then yes, OSes are like that. My household has several Macs, several Linux machines, and a Win 7 install on a dual-boot. We boot whatever seems appropriate for the intended use. No big deal.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I see desktop OS's similar to TV dinners...

      "With Linux however you have finely chop your kernel, marinade for hours and finally wash up pots, pans and plates when you're finished. "

      ?

      You *can* do that, if you want. There are also plenty of Linuxes where you don't *have* to do that, you insert a DVD of the preferred Linux (or if preferred, USB or network boot), install the chosen Linux with default config and default apps, download updates, and within an hour or less you're ready to go. Like installing Windows but quicker and without the hassle.

      Having just moved a laptop from Windows 7 (32) to Windows 7 (64), I wish it had been as easy to set up the Windows as it was the Linuxes I've done (generally OpenSuse for the last few years, fwiw. And I've been doing NT+Windows for ~20 years too).

      1. Christopher Lane

        Re: I see desktop OS's similar to TV dinners...

        What I'm trying to say (badly by the looks of it) is that rightly or wrongly the descriptions used in my earlier comment(s) is the perception of Linux for a large majority of non-techie people.

        Ultimately, I suppose, it is us who are failing the public for not communicating just how good an alternative Linux can be.

  12. thomas k.

    Well, we just spent the last few days at work migrating from XP to 7 (and probably weren't the only property making the change).

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hooray!

    The sooner it dies the sooner IE 8 dies.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Did I miss the comment

    Where someone noticed in the stat counter graph the rise in OSX is similar to the fall in XP but greater than the rise in 8.1? Makes me wonder if some are just giving up on the MS trail.

    I've had more people here considering that than before, asking for iPhones or just getting bored with the hassle of Windows (+updates). Don't get me wrong I'm not selling OSX, don't actually have a single Apple device but computers have progressed to the stage where octogenarians see them as tools and just want them to work.

    Recently I've had three Win 8.1 installs fail to boot after windows updates or other sudden head fits, one Win7 decide it's key is not valid today.

    My tolerance for licensing shit is virtually zero now (I only have licensed devices and installs so I don't want to use any workarounds, struggle to recover an install, make long number stamping phone calls or suffer due to some believed issue with other people). 10 will be better but so will the depth of monitoring, maybe even to Google level, got to make it pay somehow.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Jeez

    Why do Windows users bash Linux users so hard? Id like to remind the Windows boneheads us Linux users are the ones being paid (more than you) to help you do most of your job.

    Its highly likely that a Linux user works in IT. As I do. With that in mind id like to remind you we get to repeatedly teach you how to set up archiving in Outlook then when its done you get to check your calendars to work out which meeting room you booked out to scribble on the wall with primary colours in.

    We also get told weeks before you get fired to allow us to gradually wind down your permissions and we can also see all your whining in your annual appraisal notes. We also know weeks in advance when your replacement will be starting.

    Most importantly we are the guys that can make or break your productivity. Its at our discretion whether we report your surfing habits to your boss or hold it back for when you're a dick.

    We can find all sorts of ways to fucking ruin you and the companies you work for.

    But you know what...the vast majority of us dont. We look after our flock of Windows fuckwits because without you our jobs probably wouldnt exist and we'd likely have to be another expendable small cog in a massive machine...like you!

    Bless you all.

    Sleep well.

    Treat Linux users with respect, there might be one looking after you.

  16. JaitcH
    Happy

    With Windows XP you are never 'out of date'.

    Having a moniker XP is great. It's timeless.

    Whereas Windows 3, 7, 9, 83 immediately dates you and the OS.

    XP is one of the few Windows products that has proven so reliable.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: With Windows XP you are never 'out of date'.

      The real problem with XP is certificates...

      XP won't be in it's death throes until we start to see root certificates expiring.

      Recently I had fun and games with an XP x64 system that had been locked down since 2008. Internet access proved problematic, in part because it only had IE6 installed. No problem, simply visit WUP and then installed Chrome... Chrome refused to load because of expired certificates and with MS no longer providing root certificate updates for XP x64...

      1. Prndll

        Re: With Windows XP you are never 'out of date'.

        As has been said.........XP is quite reliable.

        I don't see certs being an issue. I also don't see Chrome at this point being a good browser for any XP machine. There are ways of doing things and if one is so inclined to continue to run XP, they still can. So much of it is in the way it's done. The only way through all the needless hassle is to remove all the outside controls. If you are the kind of person that "just wants it to work" without ever taking any responsibility for your computer, the XP is likely not the best OS for you. On one hand, it's becoming the red headed step child. On the other hand, it's becoming something of a singular source of control that a user can have (if they want it) that remains outside of MS dictatorship. The XP machines I still have are all still running great and just as fast as when installed. You have to maintain the network, the individual computers, and the filters. My view...."it's my machine which means it's my responsibility, NOT theirs". Maybe if more people saw things that way; the world, the web, and life in general would become a little easier and more enjoyable for people.

        I see nothing wrong with using Linux. Infact, many of the computers/servers I use at home are running it. Ubuntu being my flavor of choice. But a well rounded user must be open (sourced...lol) to other distro's. The Penguin is your friend.

  17. Robert Pogson
    Linux

    He who laughs last, laughs best.

    ThatGuy wrote, "Linux has less market share than Vista? HAHA"

    There are many countries where GNU/Linux has beaten Vista. Next month there will be many more.

    ie: Zimbabwe, Armenia, Montenegro, Cape Verde, Congo (Democratic Republic of the), Moldova, Micronesia, Morocco, Azerbaijan, Ghana, Sri Lanka, Sudan, North Korea, Brazil, Myanmar, Malta, Maldives, Tanzania, Nicaragua, Colombia, Belarus, Rwanda, Holy See (Vatican City State), Chile, Haiti, Ecuador, Kazakhstan, Vietnam, Kiribati, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Norfolk Island, Paraguay, Madagascar, Kyrgyz Republic, India, Kenya, Uganda, Macedonia, Pitcairn Islands, Ukraine, Venezuela, Ethiopia, Cuba, Reunion, Eritrea, and Uruguay, 74 countries or more (these are just the ones with at least 1% in "desktop" for GNU/Linux, 132 in all). see StatCounter

    For March, StatCounter recorded 124 countries with GNU/Linux exceeding Vista in data for all OSs they track..

    1. Richard Plinston

      Re: He who laughs last, laughs best.

      > For March, StatCounter recorded 124 countries with GNU/Linux exceeding Vista in data for all OSs they track..

      It should be noted that StatCounter does not record 'site visits' as such it records browsers that allow Statcounter's JavaScript to gather user information, log it, and send the data to the collection site.

      https://statcounter.com/how-it-works/

      I run NoScript and thus none of my Linux machines are recorded in the stats. It seems likely that Linux users are more likely to block these types of recorders and to visit sites that do not run statcounter, while the average Windows user will not even know what Javascript is let alone that their site visits are being monitored.

      1. Christian Berger

        Re: He who laughs last, laughs best.

        Exactly, that's why I prefer _real world_ statistics. Don't look at shady organisations or teenagers in their basements playing computer games, go out into the the world. Get a tent and look at what the people around you use.

        From my experience that's around 90% Linux on Thinkpads, around 10% Macs, usually paid for by the company and some very few Dells, some with Windows on.

  18. Christian Berger

    Maybe they just dumped flash?

    Considering that most of those surveys are based on the logs of ad companies which probably mostly use flash, just dumping flash would greatly lower their perceived market share.

    I mean that's why those surveys also show such low numbers for Linux.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Missing many XP instances

    Unfortunately with many of these detected market share surveys, the survey methodology is faulty missing out huge swathes of deployed XP

    - XP, XP embedded, PosReady 2009 (XP based) in probably 80+% of the world's Electronic Point of Sale (EPoS) devices/tills or cash registers to the man in the street. Most of these do not connect to the internet, so are invisible. Similar for other commercial uses, cash points, automated devices, electronic signage (airports), millions of work PC's hiding behind a single public IP address etc................

    Hell, I still have some customers running Windows 2000 Server, SQL 2000, MSDE etc.... Yikes !!!

  20. Multifarious digital nightmare

    Only as good as the OS

    personally never liked xp on a number of levels crashed always blue screens was not a patch on win98se or dare I say win win 95b....both those were solid bricks of software then we had the disgraceful millennia crap and 2000 and vista......a balmer fuck up.....then we had sanity win 7 wonderful it did the job and still does for many and then toe tipping into win8.1 its ok has had big issues yet apart from the usual dose of patch after patch...

    Leave Linux alone its does more for the planet than windows will ever do including osx it doesn't need a fanfare Linux/unix just works and work it does funny how Microsoft rely on Linux servers.....

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