back to article Summer bust-up expected with new Apple TV and Roku coming onstream

The video-streaming market looks set to have a blockbuster summer with new versions of both the Apple TV and the Roku expected to land. Both boxes are currently on their third versions, but it is the fourth generation that is expected to be a huge determiner for the future of the streaming market as more people move away from …

  1. Little Mouse

    So - offering pretty much the same service & content as everyone else? Can't wait.

    A real differentiator for me would be to have physical separation of my bog-standard TV from the supplied PVR (e.g. Tivo or equivalent). I don't want my TV tied to the one corner of the room where all the cables feed in through the wall just because that's where the PVR sits. I don't want to have to pay for an additional PVR in every room that I might feasibly want to watch TV in. We're at a stage where the big boys could offer a WiFi-enabled PVR that could stream channels & content over WiFi to any smart device in my house.

    Do any of the big UK providers offer this?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple TV

    Can anyone here explain why the 2nd generation of the Apple TV box commands second-hand prices close on 3 times the price of a new 3rd gen unit?

    I have a 3rd gen unit bought last summer for £79 (including a £25 Apple gift card) so in reality the price of a new unit hasn't really dropped - you don't get the gift card.

    I rather like it. It's neat and unobtrusive to the point where visitors can't really work out how I'm putting the photos or movies on the TV. (It's that minimalist remote wot does it.)

    1. Nelbert Noggins

      Re: Apple TV

      The second hand pricing on the ATV2 probably has a lot to do with the Jailbreak status on the ATV3 and will probably stay high.

      ATV2 = Untethered Jailbreak

      ATV3 = No JailBreak

      At the time of release the ATV2/3 were a lot of nicely packaged hardware for little money. With things like the FireTV allowing side-loading without needing to root, Roku, Chromecast and the 1001 Android boxes/sticks available I expect there is little reason to try and JailBreak the ATV 3, other than to say it's been done.

      Alternative better hardware is available for similar or lower prices.

      This year add the Atom based boxes/sticks which run Windows and/or Android at the same or lower cost. There is little gain from continuing to try hacking the ATV3 or 4 when it arrives, with simpler cheaper alternatives available.

      1. David 132 Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Apple TV

        The second hand pricing on the ATV2 probably has a lot to do with the Jailbreak status on the ATV3 and will probably stay high.

        Bingo. You nailed it.

        I bought ATV2 units for myself and my in-laws when they came out. After jailbreaking, they were superb little media boxes that'd run Plex happily and play media-in-whatever-format from the local NAS.

        Foolishly, I bought an ATV3 hoping for more of the same with added 1080p goodness. Waited for the jailbreak.

        And waited. And waited some more. Finally, having seen how good the Roku boxes are, I craigslist'ed the ATV3 (still shrink-wrapped) and bought the Roku3 instead.

        Apple worked so very hard to lock down the ATV3 against jailbreak, and completely screwed themselves in the process. Without jailbreak the ATV is crippled. Stray from Apple's model of "buy rent everything from the iTunes store in MP4 format" and you're SOL.

        Roku and others saw the opportunity and came up with a much better product. The free market at its finest.

    2. Picky

      Re: Apple TV

      The NowTV Roku-based box works a treat with Plex for less than £10.

      1. David 132 Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Apple TV

        The NowTV Roku-based box works a treat with Plex for less than £10.

        Cheers for the tip, upvoted. I'll take a look at that. TBH though, the Roku boxes are solid, reliable, well-made and inexpensive enough (Costco has the 3 right now for <$85).

        Edit: Never mind. Seems NowTV is a UK-only thing sold through Sky? D'oh. I'm now a leftpondian so, no good. And even when I was in GB, I would never have subscribed to Sky. Cue old jokes about "what do you call the small box on the back of a Sky dish".

        1. Alan Edwards

          Re: Apple TV

          > And even when I was in GB, I would never have subscribed to Sky

          You don't need to, the NowTV box is basically a Roku 2LT running custom software, there's no requirement to subscribe. It has the UK catchup services pre-loaded, and you can side-load Plex. It'd be no use in the US though, the channel store is severely restricted.

          There's a new NowTV box due out soon too, already out on the equivalent in Germany.

          The Roku 1 is down to £30 too.

  3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Net neutrality

    Funny how the people shouting loudest in support of net neutrality are the same ones signing exclusive carriage deals for content.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Net neutrality

      To whom are you referring, Comcast? If they've got an agreement with Apple, that doesn't mean the deal is an exclusive. It has been reported that Comcast has been working with Tivo as well.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Net neutrality

        Actually, I was thinking of HBO. But it applies to any content provider who doesn't want to pay for their content to be streamed but then sign exclusivity agreements with platforms,

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Net neutrality

          HBO is actually PRO net neutrality. They don't want cable companies preventing streaming to force their customers to buy the channel.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    AllVid

    Comcast is a big supporter of AllVid (software only replacement for cablecard) and have been reportedly working with Tivo on making an AllVid enabled Tivo. If Apple beats them to the punch as the first one with AllVid hardware that would be pretty significant, given that Apple is a newcomer and Tivo has been in the game for 20 years.

    I haven't heard anything regarding AllVid from the other cable companies, but I'm sure the other guys would be watching this with interest to see how it goes. When the FCC proposed AllVid, the cable companies were united in their opposition to it, but Comcast did an about face a year or two ago. They might now see themselves as an ISP that also offers video, rather than a video provider that also offers internet. The faster they can drop traditional 6 MHz QAM channels and deliver IPTV to customers via DOCSIS 3.1 multicast, the faster they can get out of the labor intensive "installers visit a customer's home to set up their cable boxes" business.

    In the long term the TV sets would have AllVid built in, so you wouldn't need set tops, but it will take a decade before a majority of TVs were replaced after they start offering them with AllVid.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Comcast and all that ****

    Is really only relevant to the USofA.

    What is going to happen on the Righthand side of the Atlantic (UK and Europe for those who don't know).

    Isn't that going to be more relevant to most of us or has this site totally gone US centric?

    US == Unservicable according to my former RSM. Says a lot about the US of today IMHO.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Comcast and all that ****

      Do you expect them to make up news? If there's nothing to report, there's nothing to report. Apple opening a door in the very uncompetitive US cable market is a very big deal. That's news on the order of the sweeping changes in the US cellular market Apple caused with the original iPhone deal with AT&T, where for the first time a carrier did not control the software on a phone. Tivo actually made the first step a couple years ago but unfortunately the cable companies have been allowed quite a bit of control over Tivo's software to protect their markets. Apple isn't going to allow that, so this will push the door Tivo cracked open the rest of the way.

      Apple always starts in the US, but they'll go elsewhere. And not just Apple, if they're successful with this the stodgy set top market might get the shakeup it has needed for the past two decades with a lot of new blood belatedly entering.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Devil

        Re: Comcast and all that ****

        Nothing that Apple is doing in this area is new or remarkable.

        Even their "cable-over-the-Internet" service is a me-too affair.

        Furthermore, ANY THING that any of the streamer vendors do can be quickly sabotaged by any of the network monopolies (like Comcast).

  6. 404

    Alternatively

    a Raspberry Pi 2 booting a Kodi/XMBC image works beautifully for $35, an SD card, and a handful of Legos...

    Just saying

    1. graeme leggett Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: Alternatively

      The plural of Lego is 'Lego'. The alternative phrase would be "handful of Lego bricks". Well, this part of the world anyway.

      1. 404

        Re: Alternatively

        Linguistic differences abound... Plural in 'Merika is legos.

        For instance, in the American South, when they say 'bedroom suite', it's pronounced 'bedroom suit'. When I first moved here, I wondered what they hell they were talking about, you don't say 'peTIT' for petite, right? Oh hell no, they have bedroom suits, living room suits, etc.

        I've given up that particular crusade - and they sometimes look at you funny if you pronounce it correctly.

        o.O

        1. David 132 Silver badge
          IT Angle

          Re: Alternatively

          Linguistic differences abound... Plural in 'Merika is legos.

          Yep. Here in the Pacific Northwest, "niche" is pronounced "nitch".

          and they sometimes look at you funny if you pronounce it correctly.

          Amen. Or more usually, I get

          [them] "Gee, I love your accent. What part of Australia are you from?"

          [me] "Actually, I'm British"

          [them] "Wow! So, who do you think killed Diana?" (or: "Wow! I just love Monty Python and Benny Hill!". To which my stock response these days is, "Oh, you're American? I just love I Dream Of Jeannie and Mr Ed...")

          I'm just teasing, though, really. I've never met a more friendly, welcoming, polite and warm-hearted group of people.

        2. Pirate Dave Silver badge

          Re: Alternatively

          "I've given up that particular crusade"

          Thanks. As a native Georgian, I can tell you we already get enough abuse from the New York and Boston transplants who have invaded the Atlanta area and decided to cajole us ignorant Southerners into talking properly. I mean, everybody knows what I intend to do when I say "I moan goat thuh stow", right?

  7. Keith_C

    Shame the UK Roku has been prohibited from running Amazon Prime Video.

  8. RAMChYLD

    And the point is?

    These kits make no difference to those living in Malaysia- where the only thing that's remotely usable is the Apple TV (and even then you can only get movies and not TV shows). All the other provider block Malaysia (and much of Asia off) just because.

  9. me 1

    Amazon Prime

    Bit odd to cite Amazon Prime support as a plus for Roku against Apple TV - since Roku doesn't have Amazon Prime (as far as I can find out). Oddly enough they don't seem to advertise that it is not available, even on Amazon, you just have to spot that it is not listed, or look in the questions:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/stream-Amazon-Prime-movies-Roku/forum/Fx1P7QB9UHMXTT7/Tx316F105I2Y6AH/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_aar_al_a

    1. ricegf

      Re: Amazon Prime

      @me 1: "Roku doesn't have Amazon Prime"

      Is that a British thing?

      Edit: Yes, of course it is. Should have read the link you posted. I'd downvote me if I could. :-(

      We watch Amazon Prime on our Roku 3 quite often here in Texas. Actually, Roku 3 and the Tablo OTA PVR is what made ditching DirecTV such a clear step up, since we already had Prime for the "free" 2-day shipping and books for my wife's Kindle. And even with Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Sling for the live sports channels, we're saving about $55 a month.

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