Audi TT: It's NOT a hairdresser-mobile, the dash is too flash When flacks from a car maker ring us, it’s usually to say that their new model goes like the wind, uses next to no fuel or redefines what we understand by “handling”, “braking”, “packaging” or value. When I was offered a loan of the new Audi Mk. 3 TT coupé the push was... the dashboard. Audi TT Cabin looks short of gadgets …
MMX? Surely that's an Intel trademark isn't it? Also, I really wonder with all this computer technology on the dash, what are the odds that it will crash, or there will be a lag and so the speedometer doesn't tell you the correct speed.
Also, I have a feeling that people will be concentrating on the dashboard rather than on the road ahead. The whole idea of a dashboard is that it is there for information only. It should be there for the driver to glance at, not gawk at.
Re lag, I think the opposite is true. I seem to recall a Top Gear episode where they reviewed the (I think) Lexus RC-F, and that had an LCD dashboard, because a mechanical rev counter couldn't respond fast enough.
As for crashing, even mechanical ones are computer controlled these days. There's no cable from the driveshaft to the speedo - it's all done via the ECU using data from the ABS sensors.
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I hope it's better than the 2014 Mazda 5. The speedometer display totally vanishes in bright sunlight as someone used white on black and not black on white. The info panel on that (red on black) also disappears under the same conditions. Is it just me, or do all modern cars have useless headlights at night unless they are discharge ones?
I used to own a VW. Most expensive car I've every owned. Thrice yearly expensive repairs. My Mercedes have been practically free in comparison. Better, faster, cheaper.
The 'Wheeler Dealer' TV show had an TT. The 1st-2nd gear selector fork had fallen off deep inside the transmission. Typical VW design fault. Edd China had to disassemble half the car for the £0.50 fix. Great TV show if you like seeing the insides of cars.
IMO music and satnav are not important enough to be on the "binnacle" and should be relegated to a second screen as they often are.
And I wish computers would butt out of car ventilation. In my Nissan, you can turn the fan up full, and what you get is an on-screen graphic showing an increased fan level, while the fan does nothing. Over the next 10 seconds or so it slowly ramps-up to your chosen speed. Guess Nissan thought this was cool, or restful, or something. It isn't. Just turn the fan up already, like right now. Like my Astra did in 1995.
...from the 230PS 2.0L TFSi model I drove. Top speed is a limited 155mph ...
Hmmm. Are Audi being econimical with the truth ? I think it would take more than 230PS to get this car to 155. Then again, are they actually claiming 155 is possible, or just saying there is a limit in the software...
Define 'driving'.
I once got into a kerfuffle during rush hour. My mind was not fully focused and I started playing around with distance measurement. "How close can I get to the car in front without hitting it". Eventually I did hit the car in front of me. Not enough to leave a scratch (the layer of dust covering her bumper was left undisturbed), but enough to cause some stress to my victim.
I do understand that social media usage should be kept to a bare minimum when cruising the autobahn averaging 200 kph, but when the car is barely rolling and for most of the time standing still, with no pedestrians around... I see no harm.
I am more concerned about the amount of light generated by this panel at night. In my Saabs I engage 'Night Panel' as it gets dark. At that point only the relevant gauges are lit and all my focus is on the road. (e.g. the fuel gauge goes completely dark until there is about 20% fuel remaining and the rev counter only lights up as it approaches the red line)
These days I tend to avoid rush hour. Lots of telecommuting and careful planning gives results.
I think social media in a car is a fundamentally bad idea,
For once a tech reviewer that talks sense.
My old Ford had an infotainment system and once the vehicle started moving, it locked all advanced functionality, you could change the radio station, change the temperature in the cabin and follow the nab system.
You couldn't change destinations in the navigation system, for example, which was annoying when I had a passenger in the car and we needed to make an unplanned stop on the way to a destination, I'd still have to stop, but it wouldn't let me do something stupid, like trying to type in a new destination whilst moving.
I'm pleased to find that I'm not the only driver to ask my passenger to select a destination on the satnav because it's safer than trying to do it while driving. How will you do that when the screen and controls are in the instrment binnacle?
Curiously, my current car won't let anybody use the on-screen instruction manual while the car is moving, but it will let you access the interwebs, subject to a mild warning.
I thought polarised sunglasses were circular? I get the same effect (blocking LCD displays) using circular polariser filters for my camera lenses. And I have never come across a LCD display that I cannot block 100% given the right angle of polarisation. So, if they exist, I suspect they are rare.
That said, the LCD in my car is mostly fine unless I tilt my head (while wearing sunglasses).
I change my car every 7-10 years, I change my phone every 18 months. Putting technology like this into a car is just wasted effort since the car will be obsolete for most of its useful life.
All I want is better connectivity between car and mobile device, with a standard way to mount and charge a phone securely (with an adapter for specific phones), and possibly displaying phone content on the dash. Since this probably requires agreement between (at least) Apple and Google on how to do this, it's unlikely to happen.
My current car choice was limited by the fact that only one car salesman knew what an MP3 player was, and thus understood my requirements for connecting my PDA to the car's audio (via an AUX socket). I expect the technology change during the lifetime of my next car will be equivalent to that between a Zaurus C-860 and Nexus 6 (and my current car still has a few years of life left in it).
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@Symon
The cost of the upgrade will include taking the dashboard apart to have access to the GPU behind the display. If the display and two GPUs are upgraded that would be near the cost of a high end tablet, maybe ultra thin laptrop, add dealer labor rates.
I like the idea of BYOD and the auto works with that for the non-automotive functions.
I am trying to find a in dash replacement unit that only has a jack for the phone and a USB slot. I will provide the media.
Quote: I just want a dumb car
There is no need for an agreement. MSFT and Android support Mirrorlink, Apple as usually is trying something of its own. The sole problem I have found with Mirrorlink is that it will not display just anything. Part of the mirrorlink certification is to display only vetted apps when the vehicle is moving. Ditto for Apple's equivalent.
The reason is quite simple - insurance and liability. So you can expect only apps from developers that are big enough to shell out for the certification to show up on the display. For example - Google maps has the relevant magic incantations to convince a mirrorlink phone to display it in-motion on a mirrorlink stereo. Smaller nav app vendors like Cygic do not (for their standard editions). And as far as trying to display your mail or messages on the console while driving - you can just forget it.
I have a mirrorlink capable phone and a mirrorlink capable stereo. I tried it and I do not use it. Plain and simple - nearly all cars I know have the stereo too far outside your field of view. This means that you keep switching your attention between the road and the stereo display (showing whatever app you are running - f.e. maps) and that is a disaster in the making. This is the same as a car satnav vs a satnav on a phone in a well positioned holder (f.e. on the A pillar). I will prefer the latter any day, so the stereo in the dash having a satnav is pointless.
As far as the tech being obsolete, I would not be so sure. If it is upgradeable and the software is upgraded/updated regularly (f.e. the way Tesla does it) it can happily do 5-7 years before it looks dated. The problem is that I do not see VW doing it. Ever tried to get new firmware for your stereo from your "friendly" VW dealer? Even under warranty and if it is buggy? Try that - it is like pulling wisdom teeth without anaesthetic.
My current car choice was limited by the fact that only one car salesman knew what an MP3 player was, and thus understood my requirements for connecting my PDA to the car's audio (via an AUX socket).
Funny you should say that - my car is approaching 20 now, and its only involvement with any sort of entertainment is that is provides a standard dash slot for a radio / cd player - which was quite enough for me to slide a unit that has an AUX input jack and can play mp3 CDs in there.
Putting technology like this into a car is just wasted effort since the car will be obsolete for most of its useful life.
Most of the the people who will buy the car will be taking out a 2 year PCP deal and handing it back for another one at the end of the contract so it's not going to bother them or Audi.
Not so long ago, the infotainment system, or radio as we used to call it, was in a standard-sized DIN slot with a standard connector at the back. The owner could update it whenever they felt the need with their choice of units from any one of a dozen suppliers.
That was a far better system than the modern idea of fitting a crap stereo and integrating it with the dashboard so it's impossible to replace, or a best can only be replaced by one from the vehicle manufacturer at exorbitant cost.
The owner could update it whenever they felt the need with their choice of units from any one of a dozen suppliers.
Sadly, eleven of the dozen suppliers were to be found in pub carparks*. While living in a respectable area of London I once had two head units stolen in as many weeks. The main advantage of integrated head units is that they seem to discourage theft.
* The logic behind this trade mystifies me. Even at the time, it was nearly impossible to buy a car without a radio. The only market for stolen head units must have been people who had just had their own stolen. Most of them would probably buy a new one on insurance, so the market must have been seriously oversupplied. I suppose the economics don't register when you're funding a crack habit.
1 year, 2 years, 5 years? A car is not exactly an office environment :/
Loss of dashboard is pretty close to mission failure. Driving without a speedo is not fun these days.
No doubt this new technology will elevate Audi's expensive spares prices to exorbitant spares prices...
I've got a mk1 TT, which I've had from new. You can let rip with all your "hairdresser" comments all you like - those who know about cars don't waste their time with such things.
Anyway, the display in it is very basic by today's standards and was the same one across most of the VW range back then. And like most of them it suffers from lines of pixels being completely missing. It typically happens when the car is 8-10 years old. I can't imagine this display is going to be failure free and I also suspect it won't be cheap to fix.
I don't understand all the hair dresser references. I thought Audi's in general were just to try and convince people that your special. Buying such a vehicle has absolutely no practical benefits whatsoever, unless you're at a race track. They are purely for entertainment and status. I guess they could be fashion as well... a fashionable buggy and station wagon maker :) I'm always tempted to spam those things with wood panel shelf paper.
Point is, it's really a brand of cars that screams "I have nothing special about me, so I pissed away gobs of money on a toy and am hoping to impress people.", Don't feel bad, Porsche is the same... but to be fair, Porsche drivers are usually assholes without the car too.
Tesla drivers can swing either way
re: "I have nothing special about me, so I pissed away gobs of money on a toy and am hoping to impress people."
Isn't that why women spend small fortunes on clothes, shoes, makeup, perfume...etc. Men do the same on cars, motorbikes, bicycles, technology. You appear to be describing human nature.
Your point?
Thumbs up from me on that one BTW :)
I have to admit that you're suggesting we have the same problem elsewhere, but I can't understand if it's a means of justifying the behavior such as "We do it with so many other things, why not this too?" or if it's a welcome from me to denounce those things too.
I don't do it with cars, motorbikes, bicycles or generally with technology either. I'm kind of utilitarian. Modes of transportation are for transporting me from point A to point B... if a specific model or device of transportation provides me greater utility, I'll use that if I can financially justify it... hence my crumby little Piaggio scooter which allows me to avoid traffic.
I use an iPhone 5S because I found the thumb print reader to provide me utility. In addition, the quality of the apps I use are higher than on other devices. I tried others but found them less practical and provided less utility.
I have a bicycle, I don't know if it's a good one, but if I push a pedal, it moves.
I have a Microsoft Surface Pro because I needed a tablet and a PC and it was the right weight, size, performance and screen quality to meet my needs for my job.
I think you made a greater point which is simply that I don't have one or maybe I don't understand other peoples. My perception of what I personally consider a human weakness is something you seem to understand better than me or accept better than I do. I see these vain attempts by people to try be more than they think they are as a sad emptiness which must be compensated for.
This morning I talked with a guy who has a BMW Z4 which I know is causing him physical pain due to it's poor ergonomic design (in favor of aesthetics) and I love and respect him in most cases. But he drives that car because it's pretty. I suggested that he should consider keeping that car in the garage as a toy to play with occasionally because it's fun once in a while. And he should have something more suited for utility and daily use instead.
BTW... I lost a great deal of respect for Audi because the CEO said a few years back that he has no intention of wasting time on things like fuel economy, electric cars or fuel cell since his cars are about status and power, not about utility. I wish I could find that article, I think it was on The Register.
> Isn't that why women spend small fortunes on clothes, shoes, makeup, perfume...etc.
Many men¹ actually do the same, if you pay attention. In addition to the other items you mentioned. :-(
¹ Me included, except for makeup (I'm naturally good looking, thank you) and perfume. :-)
Your missing pixels problem is common across all the VW/audis of that sort of age. I've got a 15yo A4 that has the same problem. It's a different sort of display anyway - dot matrix rahter than lcd. Dry solder joints or knackered flexi strip will be the problem I think. Like all these things, it'll cost you a fortune get it fixed by the stealership, but if you know someone with a few simple tools and a couple of hours to spare they can be fixed relatively cheaply.
BTW - I know VW/Audis have their problems but, how may Fords/Vauxhalls/etc do you see on the road that are more than 10/15 years old compared with the number of VW group ones? Mine's done a quarter of a million miles and still goes like a train. YMMV of course :-)
As someone about to buy a used FJ Cruiser (which comes with an antiquated dual-DIN CD player), I have been looking at replacement head units. As it turns out, for $399 (from China) you can get a choice of several Android-powered 6 or 7" screened GPS/Entertainment units that allow you to install nearly any Android app from the Play store - even Torque, which allows you (with the appropriate Bluetooth module) to monitor all of your engine vitals and statistics in real time. They come with WiFi, USB, Bluetooth, etc..very connected and from reports fairly competent at what they do.
So while I applaud Audi's decision to integrate such a great UI into the main binnacle, it just seems that the proprietary nature of it means a limited shelf life. Perhaps the real way forward (as the technology filters down) it to have automakers begin to install dual- or triple-DIN cutouts in a binnacle over the steering wheel, so that the technology is easily upgradeable?
I'd not be deriding Audi for lack of the style. If anything VW keeps their stuff classy and ergonomics is rarely sacrificed in the name of style. You do have to pay for it though (but there's KIA that will copy some of that if price was an issue, you'll often get what you paid for though).
@joed
I'd not be deriding Audi for lack of the style. If anything VW keeps their stuff classy and ergonomics is rarely sacrificed in the name of style. You do have to pay for it though (but there's KIA that will copy some of that if price was an issue, you'll often get what you paid for though).
I'm not deriding the brand Audi as a whole. I'm deriding specifically the TT. Which is just NOT a stylish car in any of it's incarnations.
@AC,
The original TT was flawed in many wasy. ESPECIALLY in style. It wasn't THAT much different from a lot of other higher end sportscars around at the time and it was just NOT a stylish design. The proportions are just completely wonky. And the design has suffered from this through all generations. Even the latest one still just doesn't look right. I'm not the only person to think this. MANY people do.
>IMHO that will means it'll always be a car for people with more money than sense of style. There are nicer cars to be had for that kind of money.
What are you on about? These things have loads of style. Didn't you read the article? The last model may have looked like an A4 but the original one was unlike anything else around at the time. It was flawed in many other ways, but style was never one of them. They were also victims of their own success as the market was flooded with them though.
Granted some people might hate the way they look but then again, some people hate the way 911s look. And they're wrong.
The TT is a poor man's 911/ 911 Wannabe
Many TT drivers are total prats when they get behind the wheel of their poser mobile.
Coming off the M3 at jcn 4 this afternoon proved my point perfectly.
The Black TT was in the outside lane at the traffic lights. Next to them was my Land Rover Defender.
The lights went green and he was off. In a flash, he'd cut right over in front of me and disappeared off towards Camberley, making a LEFT turn from the RH lane. I only wish the Defender had the 3.5l V8 under the hood instead of the crappy 2.0l Diesel. Then He might have had a little coming together with my 'tank'.
This is not unusual for TT drivers. They should be made to have a big sticker on their 'go faster mobile' saying
"I'd rather be driving a Porsche but her indoors won't let me"
My other car is 1970 E-Type V12 so I can go fast when the mood takes me.
It's the BMW -> AUDI transition.
A tip. Last week there was a blacked out AMG Merc. I was driving my Ford automatic Fiesta. I have very sticky "wet" tyres (I paid £15 more for each than my Boss's porsche 911).
We were in town. Average speed cameras. AMG in left lane. Can't recall if it was me or the wife who said he had a "fat head" (aka Theme Hospital). Instant assessment. Young lad. Footballer or not his car. Traffic lights at roundabout, tight left. He was slow off the lights, I mean really slow, I had my selector locked in 2nd ( lower revs). By the time we exited the roundabout he caught up but I slowed so he couldn't slide from the left lane into mine. He'd already proved earlier he couldn't control the power so I held him the left lane. Straight bit after.
(anyone from Nottingham we've just come up London Rd toward Water Court)
(he hit the power there an nearly side swiped me)
Straight bit after.. he powered away, pointless as (Broadmarsh) lights were on red. This was now confirmed as a clueless tosser. Next bit was a couple of tight right/left handers onto the bottom of Maid Marrion Way. I was hoping for a bus round the corner (left lane) to wind him up but it didn't happen.
I should mention I'm still locked in 2nd gear. I put it into "drive" half way up MMW only for the the lights to turn red. He broke the light. Queue one pedestrian crossing and lights at top of MMW we're together, except he broke that light also.
Half way up the exit the MMW is Derby Road. They're having road works there. Pedestrian crossing near the theatre. Oddly he stopped for that. Actually not oddly because he thought I was "lost".
Anyways, this continued all the way down Alfreton Rd.
The tip?
Bicycle area. Actually stop before it. Pull away on yellow (in 2nd) This how to beat an AMG(*) all through a town.
(*) provided you spend >£100 on each tyre.
I'm only on chapter 12 (of an anticipated 30) of my book entitled 'That Journey I Took Last Week In My Jag' and I admit I was wondering if it was worth all the hours and anguish I have been devoting to the project.
But reading your inspiring account of expensive tyres and a blacked out AMG I have renewed vigour for my book.
Thank you Sir, you are an inspiration to me.
@swampdog, why do you openly admit to being an idiot driver?
If you encounter another road user who is being a fool, then just let them get on with it and move away, and when you have some distance between you, continue serenely and safely on your way. Then you will be on your way to becoming a good driver and it won't be necessary to waste your money on short-lifed high grip tyres.
As a owner of this car since last week, I haven't found that "infotainment" thing too disturbing or difficult to watch in sunlight.
The Reg could have highlighted the real smooth multi driving mode, or that weird spaceship tone when you switch off the engine.
Only drawback I ve seen so far is the electric hand break. I can't see myself getting use to it.
The whole reason the handbrake exists at all is to have a hard wired (not hydraulic) connection to the rear brakes. Using it as a parking brake is an added benefit.
If the electrics fail, what then?
This reminds me of when I was driving 35-40 ft buses with air brakes. Interesting thing is when the air pressure drops in the line, due to a leak or compressor failure, the rear brakes are activated. I got the bus back to the garage by pressing down on the "parking brake" button with my right hand. Shifting gears required me to be quick about it.
> If the electrics fail, what then?
It stays on or off as the case may be, as it works on a ratchet principle.
> Interesting thing is when the air pressure drops in the line, due to a leak or compressor failure, the rear brakes are activated.
That's called a "fail-safe system" and should hardly be "interesting" to anyone paying attention to the theory book.
> I got the bus back to the garage by pressing down on the "parking brake" button
Assuming that this wasn't in a remote area (e.g., military ops), that was a pretty stupid thing to do given the significant risk of your brake pads (and ultimately the rest of your vehicle) catching fire. Why did you not call road-side assistance, if I may ask? For the record, I have had that same problem.
Back in the 1990s, when I was living in Silicon Valley, I helped a friend buy a not to old used car. It was a Nissan of some form and has a Heads Up Display for all pertinent motoring info - speed, revs and a few other things. It projected up from above the dashboard onto the windscreen in such a way that to the driver , the information was floating in space above the road, so always there. No movement of the head or eyes was required. I don't think I ever saw or heard of a car since with a HUD.
What gets me is why hasn't this taken off? It works well in fighter aircraft, yet HUDs are not used in commercial aircraft or cars.
Either way, am amazed that in an age where text messaging whilst driving is (justifiably) banned, social media is allowed on the dash of a vehicle - at least disable it when the thing is moving!
"You are hereby charged with DWT, Driving Whilst Tweeting! That'll be £500 and 6 points, plus damages to the motorist in front, whose vehicle rear you destroyed." And so on...
HUDs are used in commercial aircraft.
Standard fitment on 787 and A350, as well as many executive jets.
Quite a few BMWs have them now (M5s/M6s they are standard).
But generally agree; they are useful, intuitive things and I don't understand why they never "took off" (groan) more quickly.
The BMW 5 Series (and other models too, no doubt) has a HUD option. It's quite expensive - over £2k IIRC.
Yesterday sombody told me about a cheap Chinese HUD you can plug into the OBD2 port. Interesting, though I suspect that this option may turn out to have a few issues.
My mate had an Audi TT.
He had a full head of hair and a shabby apartment. He enjoyed life.
He is now married, balding, two sprogs & and a house plus divorce he can't pay for. Five years & a fight over a Ford Zafira.
At least he's not up my chuff in the outside lane. He took exception to this comment so we fell out,
I never got the opportunity to inform him how reliable German engineering is (unlike his wife).
I suspect you might be right, unless maybe you've got a bluetooth capable media player that's already recognised by the car from which you can control the entertainment system.
There's a set of controls in the centre console, so at least the passenger can distract the driver by playing with the LCD.
The service life of the car's mechanicals will probably be longer then that of the electronics that are running the fancy dash. So when the electronics inevitably die before the rest of the car gives up the ghost (of course assuming you haven't run it into a ditch/tree) and Audi have stopped supporting the hardware what can you do? I wouldn't think that buying the guts of a complex electronic system from another similar car in a wreckers yard would be a good recipe for success.
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