back to article Siri, you're fired: Microsoft Cortana's elbows into iOS, Android

Microsoft is porting its personal-assistant software Cortana to Android and iOS to go head to head against Apple's Siri and Google Now. Cortana will be available as a standalone app available for download to phones and tablets running the Google and Apple operating systems, Reuters reports. Cortana will debut on Windows 10 …

  1. Nash

    available for phone AND Tables?

    "Reuters reports that Cortana will be available as a stand-alone app available for download to phones and tables running the Google and Apple platforms."

    I want an android enabled Table, i really do!

    1. ThomH

      Re: available for phone AND Tables?

      Someone in Microsoft PR is still using the 2008 Surface.

    2. Albert Hall

      Make mine Mac

      Apple never did a big-ass table but if they do, I'm ready! I have a table made in the 1940's with – yes – rounded corners. Prior art, I say.

      1. h4rm0ny

        Re: Make mine Mac

        If Apple ever make a table it will be 2" high and the tech news sites will praise it for its thinness.

        1. Bleu

          Re: Make mine Mac

          For h4rm0ny.

          While neglecting to mention one will have to lie on the floor to play with it or put it on another table.

    3. Bleu

      Re: available for phone AND Tables?

      You naughty Nash, you know you don't really.

  2. bed

    Debut?

    "Cortana will debut on Windows 10 devices first, this autumn".

    My Windows phone (8.1 denim) already has Cortana.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Debut?

      I've got it on Win phone as well, however I think the confusion is there is going to be a desktop version released with Win 10.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows fans need a reality check

    Siri and Google Now are both good enough, nobody's going to jump ship to Windows Phone just to get Cortana even if it is arguably better. This is a sensible move by MS.

    1. dogged

      Re: Windows fans need a reality check

      I agree. And the larger dataset will improve results.

  4. Nathan 13

    Yet to see

    Anyone ever use a digital assistant in real life. Not even at my workplace, or amongst friends/at the pub etc.

    1. auburnman

      Re: Yet to see

      It's a great idea in concept - a PA you don't have to pay - but who is realistically going to talk to their phone in public like a bellend? Add to that the voice recognition is dependent on a data connection to more powerful servers to turn your abhorrent shrieking into recognisable language, and it's practically guaranteed to not be available when you really need it.

      1. GregC

        Re: Yet to see

        The key part of that is "in public". I use Google Now a fair amount (mostly for reminders and quick unit conversions) but always at home or the office.

        Incidentally, Google Now, for one, doesn't require a connection to do the voice recognition - you can download offline language packs for many locales.

      2. Bleu

        One does see these 'bellends'

        The ones who feel it looks cool to walk around with a headset and mic. combo. and look like they are talking to themselves.

        Hasn't really caught on with Japanese people (one sees a few), but big among some segments of SE and SW Asian people, occasionally Chinese and Koreans, less often, the occasional westerner.

        When I listen to what is being said, though, it never sounds like they are doing anything other than making a phone call.

        I will have to listen more closely, but I suspect that I have never seen anyone using Siri or whatever the Google one is called, Cortana is a non-sequitur in our market, since current-gen. Windows phones are just about non-existent, quite an oversight on their part, because they did quite well here with CE and Pocket PC.

        As I was saying on an earlier post, different thread, I much prefer a map, knowing where I am and the time of day, maybe a compass.

        I certainly don't want to help to train these systems, maybe if the manufacturers were paying me much money.

        Suggesting a new game, people who have access to these 'services' and who use them, try to train them to fuck up as much as possible. I suppose they rely on the search engines and text-to-speech, but there must be ways to subvert them, since the corporations are relying on users to train them, gratis.

      3. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Yet to see

        It's a great idea in concept - a PA you don't have to pay

        Personally, I don't see the appeal. I've never wanted a PA or the like. Cost isn't the issue; taking care of my own goddamned chores like an adult is.

        And for those people who are legitimately so busy they need a personal assistant, surely some speech-recognition web-search software can only fulfill the smallest part of that role. Is Cortana going to pick up your dry cleaning? Spend an hour schmoozing with the PA of that guy you've been trying to schedule a meeting with? Show initiative and imagination?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Yet to see

          Lets get this straight, it isn't a frikkin' PA no matter what the marketing says.

          Its just another gadget they're trying to convince you that you need, which you really don't.

      4. DrGoon

        Re: Yet to see

        "Add to that the voice recognition is dependent on a data connection to more powerful servers to turn your abhorrent shrieking into recognisable language"

        Eleven. Eleven. Eleven!

    2. Bob Vistakin
      Angel

      Re: Yet to see

      Yes, when driving. The car stereo itself is paired via a bluetooth mike built into the dash, and the audio routed to the speakers. It never misses a beat. Very impressive and natural. With the handset docked it's also permanently being charged. Granted, your'e asking about regular use in public, which I'll admit I ain't done either, but the setup I described is Star Trek cool indeed.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Bob Vistakin - Re: Yet to see

        When driving alone in your car. There, I fixed it for you!

        Speaking for myself, I'd rather keep listening to the music instead of having cortana/siri/google pestering me in those rare moments when I could be alone.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yet to see

      > Anyone ever use a digital assistant in real life.

      I have the impression this is one of those things that really depend on the local culture.

      In Europe (I travel a lot) I have seen (heard) exactly *one* person use it. At a ski station, to call up the webpage of a nearby resort.

      I imagine, however, that it'll be more common if you're on one of those places with a large concentration of techno-hipsters.

    4. Steve Gill

      Re: Yet to see

      I've seen both Cortana and Siri in use at airports

  5. Anakin
    Mushroom

    When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

    The clues have been writen on the walls for a while now.

    The new Microsoft LOVE open source after the new boss

    Windows 10 on Raspberry and other ARM

    Microsoft buying in on Cyanogen

    And finaly Cortana on Android and IOS

    Some will say it happen when pigs fly

    All i know is Swineflu is allready here.

    1. Suricou Raven

      Re: When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

      That their pushing for Secure Boot could certainly be regarded as anti-linux. All their open-source-friendly efforts could be regarded as a new incarnation of 'Embrace, Extend, Extinguish' - only applied to services rather than products. Embrace successful open-source projects to gain influence, use this influence to nudge people towards their propritary offerings or online services, eventually kill off the open-source competitor or turn it into a simple vehicle to drive the services.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Suricou Raven - Re: When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

        All you say is perfectly feasible and I'm sure Microsoft is thinking of it too. However, I don't think open-source can apply to services.

      2. h4rm0ny

        Re: When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

        >>"That their pushing for Secure Boot could certainly be regarded as anti-linux."

        Secure Boot is not "anti-Linux". It's useful technology that protects against actual threats in the wild right now. GNU/Linux can just also take advantage of it - it's a UEFI technology, not a Microsoft one. MS are a member of the UEFI consortium but then so are a dozen others including all the big hardware players like Samsung, Lenovo, IBM, et al. There's no conspiracy here. The Windows 8 requirements even mandate that for an x86 device to be certified the user must be able to disable Secure Boot if they wish. Which is a simple option in UEFI as easy as switching the boot device. Secure Boot has never stopped anyone from installing a Linux distro.

        The hysteria about Secure Boot was massively overblown and a lot of people fell victim to FUD about it.

        1. h4rm0ny

          Re: When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

          Also, I'd contest this article that MS "fans" are seething about this. I am probably one of this forums noted MS "fans", and I don't see a problem with it - it doesn't affect me as a WP user. MS have always tried to promote projects on their own even cross platform. Heck, they released their touch version of Office on iPad first, simply because that had larger market share.

          1. John P

            Re: When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

            I'm a WP user and would probably also qualify as one of those "MS" fans, I couldn't care less if Cortana is on IOS,Android,Blackberry or any other phone OS. I don't use them so it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

            I've got no issue with MS going after market share, it's a good way to raise recognition of MS in the mobile space and maybe even improve WP's market share a bit.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

          "The Windows 8 requirements even mandate that for >>an x86 device<< to be certified the user must be able to disable Secure Boot if they wish."

          So what. In the mobile device market, no one cares about x86 (Intel mobile revenue down 80% according to this week's Intel results numbers - that's not down TO 85% of previous, that's down BY 85%, and that from a near-negligible starting point!).

          "Secure Boot has never stopped anyone from installing a Linux distro" >>on an x86 system<< ?

          The goto chip in the mobile market is ARM.

          What's the MS viewpoint on secure boot on ARM?

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. h4rm0ny

            Re: When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

            >>>>>"The Windows 8 requirements even mandate that for >>an x86 device<< to be certified the user must be able to disable Secure Boot if they wish."

            >>So what. In the mobile device market, no one cares about x86

            Well I didn't bring up Secure Boot. It was given by someone who believed it was some sort of attack on Linux. It isn't. That's all that I was answering. I referred to x86 because that's where all the excitement about Secure Boot took place, what with Red Hat commenting on it, Ubuntu users criticising it, etc. It's pretty much a non-discussion in the mobile area because everyone - iPhone and Android OEMs and Blackberries and pretty much all phones with very rare exceptions - are designed with a single OS in mind and that's what they run.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              @h4rm0ny - Re: When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

              ...pretty much all phones with very rare exceptions - are locked with a single OS in mind... There, I fixed it for you! Who was Microsoft afraid of when the decided to lock ARM tablets, prey tell us ?

              1. h4rm0ny

                Re: @h4rm0ny - When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

                >>"...pretty much all phones with very rare exceptions - are locked with a single OS in mind... There, I fixed it for you! Who was Microsoft afraid of when the decided to lock ARM tablets, prey tell us ?"

                I don't see that you've fixed anything. I do see that you've shifted ground once again. You responded to my point about Secure Boot on x86 (where it is by far most relevant seeing as the criticism were from people saying it discriminated against GNU/Linux distros) by demanding to know abour ARM because that's what the majority of phone OSs ran on. I responded to that and now you've shifted to ARM tablets. But most Windows tablets are x86. The only ones that weren't were the now discontinued Surface RT and Surface 2. As to who "Microsoft are afraid of", I don't know but I can see you're determined to find some niche whereby you can prove that Secure Boot is an attack on Linux despite the fact it provides real and actual security benefits against attacks that are actually out there in the wild today. But of course to you this can't be the motivation, it must be an attack on Linux. Even if you have to retreat to a sub-set of a sub-set to find reasons to support this.

                But to answer your question - "Apple." That's who Microsoft were "afraid" of. The Surface RT was a show-case for Windows 8 as a touch-OS and it was locked just like the iPad which was its competitor. Not GNU/Linux.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @h4rm0ny - Re: When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

          Yes, very useful technology because it makes sure no other OS can't be booted unless Microsoft allows it. Can you please explain why there's only one Platform Key stored and even though end-user can add keys, only one (coincidentally Microsoft's) can be used as a master ?

          Sure, you can disable Secure Boot but Microsoft will guffaw and point any government or large enterprise that the machine is insecure and can't be trusted.

          1. h4rm0ny

            Re: @h4rm0ny - When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

            >>"Yes, very useful technology because it makes sure no other OS can't be booted unless Microsoft allows it."

            That's provably false. You can turn Secure Boot off as you well know. And doing so is as easy as switching a boot device in the old BIOS. It's even, as shown, a requirement that a user be able to turn off Secure Boot. These are not debatable facts. Your statement is wrong.

            >>"Can you please explain why there's only one Platform Key stored and even though end-user can add keys, only one (coincidentally Microsoft's) can be used as a master ?"

            Yes, I can explain. There can only be one platform key and this can't be modified because that's how the technology works - the OEM creates a single key for their device. One might as well ask why you only have a single PGP key for a given email address. Yes, you could design it so you had more, but being able to say "my email is valid if it is signed by any of my three private keys" serves no purpose and in fact weakens security. These are at base the same technologies on the same principles. What would be the point in having three private keys for your email and signing your outgoing emails with different ones just because? Nothing. Same thing here with the Platform Key. It's not a conspiracy.

            As to why Microsoft have a key in there, because they paid to create and maintain one. Any GNU/Linux distro could do the same if they wish. However, given that GNU/Linux doesn't have the capability to use Secure Boot currently (you can sign Grub or whatever other bootloader you wish, but it doesn't do any OS verification so there's no security advantage here), they don't bother. Only RedHat and Ubuntu do and that's really for trivial gain and in RedHat's case at least, they actually just outsourced key creation and maintenance to MS because MS already had the infrastructure set up for it. But as I say, RedHat and Ubuntu are only signing the boot loader which does an unverified sign-off so it's largely pointless.

            >>"Sure, you can disable Secure Boot but Microsoft will guffaw and point any government or large enterprise that the machine is insecure and can't be trusted."

            Relevant part is bolded - you are agreeing with everything that I have claimed: that Secure Boot doesn't stop anyone using GNU/Linux. As to the rest, you're claiming that Microsoft marketing will try to show their OS is more secure than others. Well, duh! Same as everyone else. And are you going to actually try and deny now that being able to verify that the OS you're booting hasn't been altered isn't a useful security feature now? Because you'd be wrong about that, too.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              On PGP [Re: @h4rm0ny - When do we see an Windows phone with Android?]

              > One might as well ask why you only have a single PGP key for a given email address.

              Errm... you don't. You can have as many as you want and should have as many as you need. For example, I have two for one of my email addresses--see below.

              > Yes, you could design it so you had more, but being able to say "my email is valid if it is signed by any of my three private keys" serves no purpose and in fact weakens security.

              Your keys might be used in different contexts and be countersigned by different groups of people. In my case, I use one key 0x01 with organisation A, with whom I have a discreet professional relationship. They have countersigned my key 0x01 and trust it. Then I use key 0x02 with everyone else--they trust that one but have no idea about the existence of key 0x01 or my relationship with organisation A.

              I could also countersign key 0x02 using key 0x01, then if organisation A came across it, they would know it's mine and, depending on their security setup, trust it, trust it marginally, or not trust it at all. From the point of view of non-organisation A users, the countersignature by key 0x01 adds no real value and, as long as they don't have access to its chain of trust, no information about my relationship with organisation A is leaked to them.

              If you could explain how that "weakens security" I would be very indebted indeed.

              1. h4rm0ny

                Re: On PGP [@h4rm0ny - When do we see an Windows phone with Android?]

                >>"Errm... you don't. You can have as many as you want and should have as many as you need. For example, I have two for one of my email addresses--see below."

                Your use case is where you have different keys for different recipients / contexts. It makes no sense to have multiple keys for a single recipient / context. And in the case of a platform key there is only one "recipient" - the public. You asked why there is only one platform key on a device - because you can do everything needed with only one and a second would be redundant.

                You're really talking about two different scenarios. The correct comparison is where you have two private keys for signing and both are known to the same audience. You must understand that this would make little sense and if you understand that, then you should realize that platform keys are the same scenario. The attempt to prove Secure Boot is an anti-Linux measure is getting ridiculous. It plainly has real security uses. It also equally plainly is not harming Linux.

                You are also following the familiar pattern of discarding all counter-evidence and honing in on one part of an argument and hoping to try and find some weakness in that and presenting that as the whole case. Just admit that you are wrong. Or don't - but if you take a look at what you're saying and realize that you are now down to arguing on the basis that there aren't multiple platform keys (despite there being no benefit to such), then you really should acknowledge that you are.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: On PGP [@h4rm0ny - When do we see an Windows phone with Android?]

                  > You asked why there is only one platform key on a device

                  No, I didn't.

                  > You're really talking about two different scenarios.

                  No, I'm not. I just pointed out that multiple PGP keys per email address can be and are used in practise. I wasn't party to the rest of the discussion--that's why I changed the subject line.

                  > You are also following the familiar pattern of discarding all counter-evidence and honing in on one part of an argument and hoping to try and find some weakness in that and presenting that as the whole case.

                  Are you really trying to have an argument with "Anonymous Coward"? :-)

        4. dajames

          Re: When do we see an Windows phone with Android?

          The hysteria about Secure Boot was massively overblown and a lot of people fell victim to FUD about it.

          Quite. Secure Boot is a bit of a PITA, but all well-implemented security measures have to be if they're not to be trivial to circumvent.

          The biggest "problem" with it is that the UEFI foundation itself did not (was not empowered to) set up a vendor-neutral Certification Authority to issue boot key certificates ... so when boards started to ship with Secure Boot enabled the only keys available for them to ship with were Microsoft's keys. Fortunately Microsoft have been quite decent about signing others' code and in mandating that Secure Boot must be able to be disabled (at least on x86).

  6. Dana W

    For free I will give it a try, I already use Apple's and Google's assistant.

    Ok, Microsoft, impress me.

    1. getHandle

      How hard can it be?

      Google Now sucks donkey balls in terms of intelligence, as opposed to looking stuff up. And I'm a fandroid!

      Having trouble believing Microsoft will do any better though. "It looks like you're using a telephone"...

      1. Captain DaFt

        Re: How hard can it be?

        "It looks like you're using a telephone"...

        Cortana requires impudent.dll to run on your device. Download? (Y/N)

        Yes

        Cortana is now searching for impudent.dll on your device... Searching...

        Cortana is now accessing microsoft.com to download impudent.dll...

        Error: Cortana cannot access web until impudent.dll is installed...

        Install now? (Y/N)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Ok, Microsoft, impress me."

      Ahh, waiting for Godot.

  7. Adrian Midgley 1

    Bob has had

    a sex change.

  8. Planty Bronze badge
    FAIL

    Microsoft pathetic spin

    "Cortana could tell a mobile phone user when to leave for the airport, days after it read an email and realized the user was planning a flight. It would automatically check flight status, determine where the phone is located using GPS, and checking traffic conditions"

    Google Now has been doing this exact same thing for 2+ years.. Someone want to tell Microsoft to stop embarrassing themselves in public so badly..

    The only news is, Microsoft found room for 1 more nail in the windows phone coffin.

    1. Filippo Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft pathetic spin

      If I left home for the airport when Google Now told me, I'd systematically miss flights. If I ask OK Google for directions to something, half of the time it runs a Google search instead of starting maps. It sometimes gives me a notification when I'm on the motorway to tell me about roadworks ahead, which would be nice if only I got it before entering the motorway, and if there was a way to read the notification or have it read to me without moving my hands from the wheel. Just about the only thing where it's reliably more convenient than using my hands is to set an alarm clock.

      I have no idea if Cortana does any of this, or anything at all, better than Google. But you can't tell me that there isn't vast, vast room for improvement.

      1. jonathanb Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft pathetic spin

        Another thing, when I'm on the train, going to work, it tells me to jump out of the train, walk to the nearest bus stop, take the bus to the next train station, and get back on the train to continue my journey. It also can't cope with the idea that you might drive part of the way to work, then take train/bus the rest of the way, nor can it remember where my car is currently parked.

        Sometimes it will tell me to turn round and go back home rather than continue on the next stage of my journey.

        The idea of crossing the road to get a bus that goes in the correct direction is completely alien to it.

        It randomly wants to send me to various shopping centres that I sometimes visit. For example, when I am on the train going home, I'm supposed to jump out of the moving train and take a stupid combination of buses to go to a retail park miles away that I would normally drive to.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Microsoft pathetic spin

          > Sometimes it will tell me to turn round and go back home rather than continue on the next stage of my journey.

          And on some days that really is the best advice you could possibly receive.

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft pathetic spin

      Cortana could tell a mobile phone user when to leave for the airport, days after it read an email and realized the user was planning a flight.

      I cannot imagine ever wanting software to do this for me. When I become so coddled and infantilized by technology that I cannot even create my own calendar entries, it'll be time for my "digital assistant" to shut off the food supply.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Seriously?

    "The spasm revealed a deeper worry: that Microsoft is letting go of a potentially useful application that could have helped float the sinking Windows Phone."

    If they're so desperate as to actually believe salvation might come from what amounts to a novelty application of limited utility, they really are screwed. Even the bloody branding for the thing is nauseating.

    After what seems like fifty different attempts at phones few ever liked and even fewer purchased, it might be time to throw in the towel.

  10. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Facepalm

    “The idea that she will be pervasive is important to us,” Ash said.

    It is not a "she" and is Ash really an android?

    Microsoft was accused of making a communications blunder and mishandling the situation.

    I am sure the people responsible, once fired, will be happily taken up by the Obama administration and the State Depratment.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Thumbs up for Alien reference.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The TV advert with the band nobody's heard of makes me want to eat my own face

  12. DerekCurrie
    Facepalm

    If Cortana in Windows 10 Tech Preview Is Any Measure...

    ... of how well it's going to work on iOS, Siri has no worries. Rarely could I get Cortana to get its act together on the most recent beta of Windows 10 Technical Preview. If often outright FAILed, even if it accurately detected what I said. It has a penchant for keeping what you said the last time you asked it a question, then answer that instead of what you just asked it. I'd estimate that it actually works maybe 20% of the time with a decent microphone in a silent, low reverberation room.

    Please do better Microsoft. It would be great to have better competition and progress in this field.

  13. 0laf

    I like MS and I like my WinPho but I just don't get the point of these digital assistants.

    The voice recognition is ok 60% of the time which is impressive enough if you any sort of accent but it's still not much slower to make an appointment with your finger. Plus if Cortana makes a mistake it's almost certainly slower.

    It doesn't integrate well with the Bluetooth in my car. Phone functions are fine and although Cortana can talk through the bluetooth system it can't listen. So if I get a text I have to yell like a madman to get it to read the text since my jacket is in the back seat. Replying is a non-starter.

    The easter eggs are interesting for the first 10min

  14. MrXavia

    Anything has to be better than Google Now...

    I ask it to play a song I have on my phone, it opens YouTube!

    SVoice is just as Useless....

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    and the next thing you know...

    Cortana suffers the equivalent of a digital period, and terminators from the future are suddenly popping into the present looking for anyone with the name of John Conner...

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