back to article Reg hacks (and rest of 'Frisco) in LinkedIn measles contagion scare

LinkedIn has been linked to a measles scare in the San Francisco Bay Area. An employee of the network-for-suits has come down with the (preventable) disease, and could have exposed thousands riding on the city's subway system. Officials at the Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) service have confirmed that a passenger riding the …

  1. Richard Ball

    And I had a cold last week. It made me all snivelly, it was awful.

    Is this piece news, or interesting somehow?

    An item on LinkedIn constantly, desperately trying to trick us into giving them our email account details would have been briefly interesting. Or something about their latest attempt to get us to log in for some small, false reason.

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: Richard Ball

      "LinkedIn constantly, desperately trying to trick us into giving them our email account details"

      Isn't that, like, every social network on the planet?

      C.

    2. O RLY

      When a disease that had been all-but-eliminated in the developed world pops back up in a major metropolis with a large tech presence, it makes sense for a tech paper with an office in that city to write an article. Especially since there were several large tech events in San Francisco last week including Developer Week and VMware PEX with global attendees who might have used the BART, it's a relevant article.

      1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        Wasn't Measles one of the diseases that did for the Native Americans?

        It is serious illness easily preventable by inoculation, thereby creating heard immunity. I have no time for those who do not allow their children to be inoculated - none.

  2. JustWondering
    Thumb Up

    Thanks!

    I'd like to express my appreciation for the link which accompanied this article, which gave me the most cogent explanation I have seen so far about how vaccines cause autism. Well done!

    1. Oninoshiko
      Boffin

      Re: Thanks!

      Let me give the the most cogent explanation of how vaccines cause autism possible.

      They don't.

      1. Oninoshiko
        Go

        Re: Thanks!

        Hrm, guess I should have clicked the link before posting!

  3. publius

    Rubella and birth defects

    Measles is not funny to a pregnant woman who does not already have immunity. It is (unfortunately) now somewhat risky for any woman to get pregnant if she has not already been immunized. This was common knowledge 50 years ago. Are we getting dumber?

    All you self-centered, selfish, stupid creeps that don't want to "risk" immunization (yes - it is your choice): just move out to the middle of a REALLY big desert, so you don't put the rest of us at risk.

    The advertisers have convinced huge numbers of people that only "they" exist. But this is not so to a bunch of us old people, who are susceptible to all sorts of airborne diseases carried and multiplied by the huddled masses. Walmart /Tesco is becoming a dangerous place to may of us. Not to mention public transport.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Rubella and birth defects

      Is this a language issue with 'mericans ? Here in GB, rubella used to be known as *german* measles, and was distinct from the other sort of measles. No, I would not wish rubella on a pregnant woman, but like many people of my age I had both variants when I was a kid.

      1. Oninoshiko

        Re: Rubella and birth defects

        The confusion is that Rubella is (in the US at least) covered by the same vaccination as Measles, the MMR (Measles, Mumps, and Rubella).

    2. Fungus Bob

      Re: Rubella and birth defects

      "All you self-centered, selfish, stupid creeps that don't want to "risk" immunization (yes - it is your choice): just move out to the middle of a REALLY big desert, so you don't put the rest of us at risk."

      If you've been immunized, there is no problem for you. Unless immunization doesn't work, which makes the whole argument pointless.

      1. Oninoshiko

        Re: Rubella and birth defects

        "If you've been immunized, there is no problem for you. Unless immunization doesn't work, which makes the whole argument pointless."

        There is a 1-5% chance that an immunized person still gets it.

        Those with weakened immune systems are not eligible for immunization.

        Those under the age of 1 are not eligible for immunization yet.

        These small groups of people can still be somewhat protected by "herd immunity." That is (up until recently) the +90% immunization rates so limited the spread, that it was unlikely these small numbers of persons on whom the vaccine is ineffective or cannot receive it would come into contact with measles because most everyone around them where immune. Herd immunity depends on everyone who can be immunized doing so. So yes, publius is correct, those who are eligible for the MMR who don't get it are creating a risk.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Rubella and birth defects

          -->These small groups of people can still be somewhat protected by "herd immunity." That is (up until recently) the +90% immunization rates so limited the spread,

          That isn't what herd immunity means. Herd immunity is what happens when a disease runs through a given population and burns itself out as the whole herd has developed a natural immunity.

          1. Oninoshiko

            Re: Rubella and birth defects

            I'm afraid, AC, you need to look it up:

            'When a critical portion of a community is immunized against a contagious disease, most members of the community are protected against that disease because there is little opportunity for an outbreak. Even those who are not eligible for certain vaccines—such as infants, pregnant women, or immunocompromised individuals—get some protection because the spread of contagious disease is contained. This is known as "community immunity."'

            http://www.vaccines.gov/basics/protection/

            Tis better to be thought the fool then speak and remove all doubt.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: herd immunity

              http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/the-herd-immunity-myth-and-how-it-pits-parent-against-parent/

              1. Oninoshiko

                Re: herd immunity

                wow, AC, that site is a crock. The only "reference" in that "well researched" article is a link back to the same site!

                You know why it's not to a peer-reviewed journal? Because the assertions don't hold up to scrutiny. The doctor (and I use the term with as much irony as I can muster) referenced here is a completely quack.

                His assertions are not even constant (in any way other then being food to tin-foil-hatters). In one breath he complains about medicine being to reactive rather then proactive, in the next he damning vaccination (which is COMPLETELY proactive (and unlike his "approaches," actually effective)).

                http://www.skepdic.com/blaylock.html

  4. Gray Ham Bronze badge

    there is a 1 to 5 per cent chance an immunized person could contract measles

    Which makes me between 1-in-400 to 1-in-10,000 unlucky ... both my children contracted measles after being vaccinated. Fortunately no serious lasting damage to either, but (note to Richard Ball) measles is scary if it is your kid that is infected: the Dept is quite right to send out an alert.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Exactly, as did I.

      In fact I remember being sent to play with the kids who had things like this so I would get it over and done with. Mumps wasn't pleasant but when your young you get over these things amazingly quickly.

      Obviously we were dying in our thou... hang on no we weren't.

      1. Elmer Phud

        "Obviously we were dying in our thou... hang on no we weren't."

        That's because our mums were exposing us to it at an early age.

        And popping off the local clinic to get us jabs.

        Unfortunately, it is not possible to vacccinate kids with crystals, incense or 'super-foods'.

        Our mums were sensible - -far too many have now fallen for the Autism crap and are now happy to expose pregant women.

      2. Cpt Blue Bear

        "In fact I remember being sent to play with the kids who had things like this so I would get it over and done with. Mumps wasn't pleasant but when your young you get over these things amazingly quickly."

        Caught measles at school when I was seven. Two of my classmates ended up in what passed for intensive care in those days and a third died.

        What your Mum was doing in exposing you like that was the third world equivalent of immunisation. You can catch the disease, suffer for a week, carry life long scars (or is that chicken pox?), risk blindness, nerve damage, death etc, or you can have the vaccination. Having gone through the former, I'll take the latter.

    2. plrndl

      Mountains and Molehills

      When I was a kid (UK 1950's) EVERY kid had measles. I have heard that there can be serious complications, but I have NEVER heard of anyone who has actually experienced this.

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

        Re: Mountains and Molehills

        I was listening to a program on Ebola last night. They were talking about relative risks, and contrasting with average risk. One outbreak of Ebola killed 90% of those infected, it tends to vary a lot by outbreak. The average death rate is about 60%-65%. Guess which figure the press went with recently...

        Anyway the average mortality rate of measles is 10%, and it kills about 120,000 people a year. Mostly under 5s.

        Obviously the West have been vaccinating for a while, or that average would be lower, as there'd be more cases with fewer extra deaths, with our better healthcare. But it's much more contagious than Ebola, being airbourne.

        However it's not a trivial disease. One of the symptoms is possible meningitis, which is always bad. I have met kids who've had it, but then I used to do volunteer work at an RNIB Sunshine House school.

        Interestingly enough, via the same route, I've also met children who were illegally used in his "research" by struck off Dr Wakefield. As well as making up some/most of his results, he was also making money from the parents he was lying to about the causes of their children's illnesses. And taking samples from them for his "research", without always bothering to get consent. Which is why he was repudiated by his fellow researchers, and struck off by the BMA.

      2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: Mountains and Molehills

        I have heard that there can be serious complications, but I have NEVER heard of anyone who has actually experienced this.

        This is because most of them are delayed. Nervous damage complication from measles is offset by up to a decade, heart by up to couple of decades, even eye squint and overall eye damage are offset by a year or two. Overall rate is significant > 1:10000.

        So by the time the person has developed it your "lfe paths" would have parted so you would never know.

        Also Measles (real one) != German Measles which was significantly more prevalent in the developed world.

        Where I grew up, measles (real one) meant immediate quarantine, school closures, signs on doors in houses, etc. That was followed extremely strictly and for a reason - it has a significant (even in the developed world) mortality rate. Compared to that german measles was indeed all over the place and nearly everyone had it sooner rather than later.

      3. Number6

        Re: Mountains and Molehills

        While I assume that like me, you didn't know the family personally, Roald Dahl lost a daughter to measles. In a few cases it causes encephalitis, which is what leads to brain damage or death, and his daughter was one of the unlucky ones.

      4. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Mountains and Molehills

        Roald Dahl's daughter died in 1964 of encephylitis caused by measles. He wrote that she seemed ok and recovering right up to a few hours before she died.

        And no, tot he twats who keep bringing this up, that isn't caused by secondary infections. It's a complication, along with other complications such as blindness, deafness and other nerve-damage related issues.

        As for mumps being harmless - if you get it as an adult male there's a high risk of being rendered sterile. I caught it as a kid and 40 years later I _still_ have hearing and parotid issues resulting from it.

        As a baby I got measles and rubella in rapid sucession (too young for vaccination) thanks to selfish wankers and ended up spending several months in hospital.

        A little older and I got chicken pox - harmless you say - but there are significant numbers of kids who have their eyesight permanently affected by it and 30-40 years on when shingles rears its ugly face you'll have to quaff about $350 worth of antivirals to make it go away (and it takes a week to do so) or face the possibility of major scarring, blindness, incredible itching (it's like a combination of bad sunburn and being sandpapered) and being contagious for months. Shingles doesn't just come back once either. I've had 3 bouts of it so far at roughly 10 year intervals.

        I hate to think of what would happen if a polio carrier took a swim in some of these enclaves of antivaxxers. Perhaps the kids could sue their parents for letting them end up in an iron lung.

  5. Crazy Operations Guy

    If I get sick...

    ...can I sue Jenny McCarthy and her followers for lost pay from being home sick from work? What about the money my company loses from failing to uphold our contracts?

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: If I get sick...

      Put things into perspective - you are suing the wrong people. The whole anti-vaccine thing was a fringe fad up to a few years ago. It stopped being a fringe fad _AFTER_ the invention of the vaccine against Human Pappilomavirus.

      At that point, various right wing basketcases equated vaccines with promiscuity and started piling millions of funding into the anti-vaccine movement. That was also the turning point which marked the necessity for every politician from the right side to doubt vaccines to be elected. All of that because some cretin saw the vaccination of 13 year old females (which the right age for it for a long list of reasons), with a vaccine which prevents 60% of cervical, 40% of V, A, P, etc cancers as a religious issue.

      It is quite funny how we get outraged about muslim clerics in Pakistan, Afganistan and Subsaharan Africas sabotaging the campaign against polio when our own religious nutjobs are doing the same at home.

      FFS - that virus _IS_ in the f*** general population (yes f*** intended as it is descriptive). Will the person get it at 16, 18 or on the first night following whatever religious marriage ceremony is mandated by her/his upbringing is irrelevant. He/She will get it. The HPV vaccine is not a promiscuity aid and there is no reason to fund nutheads and mandate politicos to express nuthead views on all vaccines because of that. MMR vaccine included.

      So if you have any objection on the subject you should look around and start suiing every single religious and right wing nutjob organization inclusive of the infamous K brothers. I suspect you do not have the budget for that. Nobody does - this is why this madness keeps on going.

      1. Dan Paul

        Re: If I get sick...

        No, Voland

        Jenny McCarthy has a huge following of people and they are strictly California left leaning rich democrat whole foods types and their anti-vaccine group is the one that is behind the out break of measles. They are the ones erroneously linking the Measles,Mumps, Rubella vaccine to Autism.

        You "may" be right about "some" religious conservatives regarding HPV but that has mostly gone by the wayside. You don't even hear of that publicly for quite a while. I should know, I'm conservative (and no I don't believe that crap)

        Measles is the problem and your bias and disinformation is not helping the situation.

        1. KR Caddis

          Re: If I get sick...

          As I recall, Jenny McCarthy reversed her stupid opinion as to vaccines causing Autism about two years ago. Did she revert? And who the hell gave her the right to speak for or to ANYONE anyway? ok, maybe she can speak for herself, and even change her mind... that's her privilege. I believe she has no better medical credentials than my dog, who is vaccinated against a whole slew of doggie diseases by the way.

          As for Californians, I live here, I love it here. Great weather and fewer wackos. I'm a Democrat, I had Measles as a child, as well as Mumps and Chickenpox, and some other kind of 3 day Measles later. I'd rather have had the vaccine... so what.

          I vote to the Left because they seem to be the only rational ones who can consistently fix what the Right does disasterly and repeatedly wrong. Like with the economy, war, taxes, the larger public's health, und so weiter... They simply want to repeal anything and everything; they're anarchists out for personal gain; just fuck everyone else.

          AND DON'T CALL IT "FRISCO" !!!!

          It's derogatory, like the "N" word, and just not socially acceptable. It shows a lack of civility. It's "SF", "The City", even "Baghdad by the Bay",better, it is "San Francisco" in civilized society. It's the London of North America.

          And if you don't like California, you're simply suffering bad weather needlessly.

          I had my say and now I'll have my pint of great micro-brew.

          1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

            Re: Re: If I get sick...

            "AND DON'T CALL IT "FRISCO" !!!!"

            Hahaha. We call it San Francisco. But that wouldn't have fit in the headline story. At least we didn't use San Fran, amirite?

            C.

          2. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: If I get sick...

            "As I recall, Jenny McCarthy reversed her stupid opinion as to vaccines causing Autism about two years ago."

            It gets better than that - she tried to deny she'd ever said it or campaigned on the issue

            "Fucktard" doesn't even come close to the opinion I have about people like her.

            BTW one of the reasons being trotted out about not vaccinating kids is "mercury in the vaccinations". The compound containing it hasn't been used for over 15 years (it was removed after Wakefield tried to blame it), the preservative it was part of is very chemically stable and if people are that wound up about it, have they considered removing their fillings?

        2. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

          Re: If I get sick...

          "You "may" be right about "some" religious conservatives regarding HPV but that has mostly gone by the wayside. "

          Bullshit. These freaks are causing all sorts of problems in Alberta over this vaccine. Bastards.

        3. debrajc1

          Re: If I get sick...

          Hm, no. Here in Texas the religious conservatives are quite strongly anti-vax, as are Libertarians convinced that every conspiracy theory of government out to harm the public is factual. Having managed a large pediatric clinic, I saw people who spanned all across the spectrum, many of whom attempted to obtain exemptions from my clinicians for their children. This isn't about party. It's about ignorance and the people capitalizing on that ignorance. In Texas, that's the churches and politicians with ambition.

  6. Mark 85

    Vaccines and autism... relationship is still questionable. But measles and birth defects have a very well known link. Take your chances. Make your choices. But be rational and I hope you are right because the birth defects are very real. And yes, I've heard and seen the autistic connection and the measles/birth defect connections first hand. Luckily, I'm old enough not to have to make that decision.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      On the "questionability"

      All the "autism" advocates keep forgetting what is prevented by the vaccines:

      1. Measles has a mortality rate and long term disability rate. Non zero one.

      2. Diphteria has a mortality rate and a fairly substantial one to boot. One of my childhood memories which I would never forget is one of the kids in the same apartment block contracting it and the ambulance breaking down on the way. By the time the replacement ambulance arrived the kid would have been dead if our retired pediatrician neighbour did not tracheotomize her with a kitchen knife and a drinking straw.

      3. Tetanus has an undisputable mortality rate

      4. Pertusis has a mortality rate.

      5. Varicella in individuals with eczema or asthma has a significant mortality rate.

      These, taken together yield a childhood mortality rate of > 1% which was the norm 100 years ago and is still seen in the 3rd world. One of the reason why we do not see them even in non-vaccinated individuals is because of 99% of the general population is vaccinated. So the few individuals that do not for "ideological" reasons are in fact parasitising on the rest. If, however the vaccination prevalence drops under a threshold (for each of 1,2,4,5 this is is ~ 90-92%) the disease will have a sufficient susceptible population to spread. So they can _AND_ will watch their kids die. In the name of something that even if proven is still significantly lower (by many orders of magnitude) risk than the risk of childhood death from a preventable disease.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: On the "questionability"

        I was in a school of around 700. measles went round in the days before vaccination. No-one was left with long term effects. In fact it touched most of the schools in the area and I never heard of anyone having anything worse than a bad few days.

        We were later offered German-measles vaccinations if we were female which seemed a reasonable approach. In our case 99% didn't need it as they'd already had it.

        1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: On the "questionability"

          I was in a school of around 700. measles went round in the days before vaccination. No-one was left with long term effects.

          Depends on age. If those 700 got it when mostly pre-teen the likelihood of complications would have been under 1%. Out of these 1% the most common long term damage from measles is to the heart muscle and nervous system including fatal ones.A lot of those you will not see while still in school. You will see them later - up to a decade or more after that for the nervous system and decades (plural) for the heart.

          So the fact that you did not see them in school does not mean that one of these 700 kids did not kick the bucket in college or as an adult due to something that could be prevented in the first place. For example the delayed fatality rate due to nervous system damage from measles is 1:25000. While fairly low it is still significant. Heart ones are in the 1:10000 range or therabouts. Most common is eye and eye nerve damage - again often delayed by a few years too.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: On the "questionability"

          As somebody ^ there pointed out german measles != measles

        3. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

          Re: On the "questionability"

          For those who went to schools with 700 pupils and no deaths from measles, remember the majority of measles deaths happen to children under five. Who won't have lived to get a chance to go to school, by definition.

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Mark 85,

      Is there actually any evidence linking vaccines to autism? And not that shit research Wakefield mostly made up. I wasn't aware of any, but then I haven't looked into it for ages. The developmental signs of autism turn up about the same age as childhood vaccination. To re-use the old phrase, correlation is not causation.

      I know parents of autistic children who believe it. But then given the choice between an explicable cause, or just "your child's life was ruined by random", that's understandable.

      1. Mark 85

        There in lies the problem. I've not seen any credible research. Thus, the "still questionable". I have however seen the result of measles in pregnancy. My wife has a soup sandwich worth of issues because her mother had measles while pregnant.

        To listen to the likes of celebs and celeb doctors (Dr. Oz anyone?) is foolhardy. When I wrote "choose wisely" I meant exactly that. Do the research and only from credible sources.

        I probably should have worded my post stronger.

      2. Alan Brown Silver badge

        "And not that shit research Wakefield mostly made up."

        The evidence is that Wakefield made shit up in order to sell separate vaccinations that he had a financial interest in.

        Interestingly, he was only discrediting MMR, but this has since spread to all vaccinations. It shows the danger of damaging memes.

        It's worth noting that Wakefield may have been stripped of his license in the UK, but he wasn't criminally charged (he should have been) and is now practicing in Texas, and still pushing his dangerous lies.

    3. Alan Brown Silver badge

      "Vaccines and autism... relationship is still questionable"

      Complete and utter bullshit. Even the supposed links the CDC found between black males and vaccinations has been shown to be ficticious.

      Parental exposure to environmental factors and autism, or genetics and autism yes, but there is no link whatsoever between vaccinations and autism other than the diagnosis of autistic children tends to happen about the same age. Most importantly of all the percentage of autism diagnoses is utterly unchanged amongst unvaccinated children from vaccinated populations.

      Correlation does not imply causality. If you don't understand that part, perhaps looking at the graphs on the following links:

      http://boingboing.net/2013/01/01/correlation-between-autism-dia.html - correlation between autism diagnosis and sales of organic food.

      http://www.tylervigen.com/ - spurious correlations

  7. cantankerous swineherd

    ffs.

    a measles survivor.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The solution is obvious... Anyone thought to have the disease should be shot immediately.

  9. ukgnome

    What, no Mitch Ben link?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YCGMqp6kBE

  10. This post has been deleted by its author

  11. Number6

    I once spent a day in a car with someone who came out in a rash (he was a teacher, too) during the day that was diagnosed as measles. I didn't catch it from him, so I assume that my childhood illness set up my immune system properly and that experience was the equivalent of a booster vaccine.

    As for Frisco, I thought that was something one used in cooking, until I realised that C and F are close on the keyboard and my brain had suffered a typo.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wake me when they make a vaccine for Ebola.

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