back to article Carmakers DEFLATED by AIRBAG FLAW as US watchdog recalls TWO MEELLION vehicles

More than 2 million SUVs and cars have been recalled by a US regulator, after manufacturers including Honda and Toyota failed to fix defects found in the airbags of some of their early Noughties' models. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (HTSA) confirmed that Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx had announced …

  1. Russell Hancock

    How Long?

    Genuine question here - what is the "recall" period for cars in the US? these cars are 15 years old and are having defects fixed as part of a recall...

    Also i was always lead to believe that the "ignition charge" that deployed the airbag (no idea what it is really called) we only expected to last 10 years anyway? have things changed, do i miss-remember?

    Anyone know the answers?

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: How Long?

      Not just the airbag. There is a set of similar charges to pull the seatbelts which should not last more than 10 years. Unfortunately I have yet to see a manufacturer which offers a refurb kit. IMHO they should be obliged to do this at least once as a regulatory requirement.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How Long?

      Airbages etc: " only expected to last 10 years anyway? have things changed, do i miss-remember?"

      Originally this was all the makers would commit to, and the handbook says to have checked or replaced at that time. I believe that in the light of experience it is now considered that the pyrotechnic components are safe for fifteen to twenty years, with makers changing their recommendations accordingly. Volvo reportedly have bought back second hand cars specifically to test these components, and it seems that the current view is that these bits should last the normal life of the car. That has been an average of 13.5 years in the UK, with very few vehicles over about sixteen years.

      1. Russell Hancock

        Re: How Long?

        @Ledswinger - thanks for the clarification points, glad I am not going mad (well, maybe not completely mad anyway). That still means that most of my cars will have questionable airbags as I tend to stick to older cars so I don't care when I cover it in sand / salt...

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: How Long?

          That still means that most of my cars will have questionable airbags

          One could argue that it's not worth worrying about, when you consider the joint probability that:

          - you will be involved in an accident severe enough to cause serious injury, and

          - this accident is of a type where your airbag could have alleviated such injury even though you were wearing a properly-fastened seatbelt,1 and

          - this accident was not so serious that the airbag wouldn't make a damn bit of difference anyway, and

          - the airbag did in fact fail to deploy due to age

          My guess is that probability is pretty damn low.

          In Freakonomics,2 Levitt and Dubner claim that pretty much all of the decline in infant mortality from auto accidents in the US came from putting children in the back seat and belting them in, and "proper use" of a child seat has negligible additional benefit, statistically.3 I suspect the same applies to some degree with airbags: that there isn't that much statistical benefit once you correct for other behavior by the driver and passengers, particularly seatbelt use and reasonably competent driving.

          I've read stories that claim e.g. a 26% benefit in mortality from airbags - ie that deaths from crashes for seatbelt-wearing drivers are reduced that much by airbags. But I'm dubious. And, of course, a reduction from a 1% probability to 0.74% is "a 26% reduction"; without actual figures there's no way to know if that's significant.

          1I'm going to assume this is true for the sake of argument

          2I know, I know. Taken with a healthy grain of salt.

          3Of course that hasn't stopped the American Academy of Pediatrics from continuing to issue ever-more-stringent recommendations for child-seat use. (I don't understand how they can be so rigorous in their use of EBM to - correctly - justify childhood vaccination, while failing to do so in cooking up these car-seat rules.) Or one particularly stupid legislator here in Michigan from trying to mandate them by law.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    SPIDER SENSES TINGLING!

    Got a feeling that somehow we, in Blighty, are going to be picking up the tab for this.

    1. John McCallum

      Re: SPIDER SENSES TINGLING!

      Why? Most of these SUV's are not sold over here.

      1. Down not across

        Re: SPIDER SENSES TINGLING!

        Why? Most of these SUV's are not sold over here.

        Really? I see loads of Jeep Grand Cherokees (and Libertys) every day. They certainly are (and have been) sold here (here being UK that is).

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: SPIDER SENSES TINGLING!

      I did a quick check for my vehicles (I got two Daihatsus from that period) to use a different airbag supplier. I would not be surprised if this is a USA specific issue.

      1. Down not across

        Re: SPIDER SENSES TINGLING!

        I did a quick check for my vehicles (I got two Daihatsus from that period) to use a different airbag supplier. I would not be surprised if this is a USA specific issue.

        The Chrysler bulletin mentioned the TRW made ECU which I believe was used on UK models as well.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: SPIDER SENSES TINGLING!

      "Got a feeling that somehow we, in Blighty, are going to be picking up the tab for this."

      As a general rule not. I've had recall work done on two cars outside of the warranty period for safety related defects, all at the maker's expense. One of those cars was even an EU import, and still swept up in the UK recall programme.

  3. Mikel

    Ow

    It turns out that making devices that are designed to blow up in your face without killing you is really hard.

  4. Number6

    I was lucky, in that I never quite got around to getting the first recall done. I've got paperwork for the second, but interestingly they say that there aren't enough replacement devices to go around so they're prioritising areas such as Florida where there's heat and high humidity as evidence suggests they're more likely to have a problem than other areas. In the meantime, it is recommended not to carry front-seat passengers.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      interestingly they say that there aren't enough replacement devices to go around so they're prioritising areas such as Florida where there's heat and high humidity lots of lawyers as evidence suggests they're more likely to have a problem get sued than other areas.

      1. Number6

        I'm in California, I'm sure we have more lawyers than Florida and we're not at the front of the queue.

    2. G.Y.

      In the meantime,

      they should change the rules, allow the air-bag's (a.k.a shotgun's) fuse to be pulled out!

      1. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

        Re: In the meantime,

        The second recall was about them self-detonating so pulling the fuse or wires is no help.

        (I have no hate for airbags. Having been in a crap 1988 Tercel during a fender bender, as the car flexed so that my front teeth almost met the steering wheel, I was thinking that a bag of explosive would have been a nice feature. That, and a car that doesn't flex so much. ...and a gas pedal that isn't behind the brake pedal.)

  5. Mark 85
    Headmaster

    The concept of the "air bag"

    I guess I'm feeling nit-picky... shouldn't be a "noxious fume bag"*? The term "airbag" gives a false sense of security as does the mere having them. It's amazing the number of idiots who think they can do what they want while driving and the "airbag" will protect them.

    * If you have ever been around one right after they deploy, the fumes are enough to knock your socks off and not in a good way.

  6. ecofeco Silver badge

    How's that offshoring working for ya now?

    Mexican made, doncha know.

    Both the Japanese and US car makers got screwed on this one.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How's that offshoring working for ya now?

      The faulty 'bags were originally manufactured by Takata, a Japanese firm.

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: How's that offshoring working for ya now?

        ...in Mexico.

  7. OzBob

    I am jack's complete lack of surprise

    "X" must have been more than the cost of a recall.

  8. Cpt Blue Bear

    If its anything like the dealer recalls we have in Aus...

    The reason for them going off AFTER being recalled is that the dealers just didn't do the fix. My Toyota Hilux went back four times to fix a maybe, perhaps, on-some-models faulty bonnet catch. The first two times they gave the vehicle back without actually doing anything and the fourth time was to fix the damage they did to the paint work when they actually did the work on the third attempt.

    Muppets.

    WRT airbags: what I want is an option not to have the fucking things in the first place. Then I could have a proper dash mounted Jesus bar again...

  9. Christoph

    "deploy inadvertently – that is, in the absence of a crash."

    If the airbags deploy without warning, there very probably will be a crash!

  10. Sgt_Oddball

    They did a recall late last year in the UK for the airbag as well, had to take my '03 corolla estate in to get it sorted (because thats how i roll... one step away from a MPV depressingly) so it might be a world wide issue (Japanese made car as it proudly states on the windscreen so maybe it was a Japanese supply chain issue).

  11. DanceMan

    Never liked the idea of airbags personally, being a dedicated user of seatbelts. Haven't owned a car new enough to have them -- current car is 25 years old.

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