back to article Ski MOUNT DOOM or take top coffee to the beach? Your choice

What is it about New Zealand? Despite being in quite the oddest place, not being very big and living with the threat of volcanic nasties, it punches above its weight in so many ways. And as this week's eXpat files volunteer Christopher Mullard explains, it also offers a top place for a developer to move with his family. How …

  1. Chris Miller

    A couple of minor quibbles: half the houses in my village don't have mains gas, and that's less than 30 miles from London; and though you may not need heating in Auckland (climate-wise, think Lisbon), you will in Dunedin (very similar to it's namesake, Edinburgh) - admittedly, IT jobs are much more likely to be in the former than the latter. And don't forget the best lamb, seafood (they take fish and chips very seriously) and wine in the world (best not to mention the beer, though :).

    1. Trixr

      Mmm, the appalling insulation standard, wooden buildings, and lack of double-glazing means that it can get pretty chilly in the middle of winter. Especially in an older house. Let's not mention "leaky houses".

      And are you really dissing the beer? Sure, Lion and DB suck, but there are untold numbers of craft brewers putting out very nice drops these days. Certainly better than the selection in Oz now.

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  3. Headley_Grange Silver badge

    Professionals?

    You have to respect a country which has Doyle on its $1 coin.

  4. Uberseehandel

    It always amazes me when folk from abroad rock up in a new job in a country they have never lived in before and start talking about "work/life balance".

    Too many immigrant workers have a poorly hidden sense of superiority and entitlement. And you don't just find these people in IT. Seven day a week 14 hours a day projects are just as common in NZ as they are in Silicon Valley. All too often British immigrants (aka Poms) confuse being at work with working. Presentism is rife amongst Pom immigrants.

    Sadly, the technical education of Poms is often a poor fit to their qualifications.The rash of new British universities appears not to have been entirely successful, if education was the aim.

    Immigrants who buy imported food products are selling themselve short and costing themselves money. NZ is one of the world's great primary producers. NZ brands may be unfamiliar, but in most cases they are superior to their UK equivalent. Learn to buy meat from the butchers' shop at one of the big meatworks, great prices and you are cutting out the middlemen.

    Would be immigrants should consider bringing a quality (German) car with them, organised properly, this can be finacially rewarding in due course. Immigrants with partners who have useful skills, such as clinical or teaching qualifications seem to integrate more quickly than ones who don't. Poms will know they are making progress on the integration front when they are referred to as a Brit rather than a Pom, its a big step up.

    Whilst Poms might not like hearing about the All Blacks, they are relevant. The ABs have a terrific work rate and awesome technical skills, which is why they are the world's most successful team. Their example is taken to heart by all New Zealanders, which sets quite a standard for new arrivals.

    Incidently, there is a difference between trekking and tramping. Kiwis find trekking rather a gentle acttivity.

    1. JC_

      It always amazes me when folk from abroad rock up in a new job in a country they have never lived in before and start talking about "work/life balance".

      I think that's unduly harsh on the interviewee. Anyone that gives up a chunk of pay is doing it for something that's more valuable to them, such as time off and a view of the sea instead of the A40.

      Poms will know they are making progress on the integration front when they are referred to as a Brit rather than a Pom, its a big step up.

      Any kiwi that keeps on referring to an ex-pat as a 'Pom' is being a dick. If you're in the habit of doing this, then please stop as you're embarrassing the rest of us.

    2. Gordon 10

      Are you the kiwi Nigel Farage? And I thought us poms were meant to be the whiny ones.

    3. Headley_Grange Silver badge

      Work Life Balance

      Speaking from experience of a six-month stint in Aus (not IT - aerospace engineering) I agree with the article. In Britain we know what it means when a job description mentions work life balance; you'll be expected to work all hours, give up weekends and holidays at short notice if the work requires it, and family life is a career limiting weakness!

      In Aus the prevailing (and accepted) attitude was that the work would still be there tomorrow so why would I cancel my evening's / weekend's plans?

    4. Trixr

      Wow, have you ever lived overseas yourself?

      NZ is a great primary producer, and the selection is much better than it was in the 70s, but some of the range of stuff is still lacking. I would hope they're purchasing the local butter - but what if they want organic or cultured butter? Good luck getting that NZ. You can't get clotted cream in NZ, which is mind boggling. And food prices are not that cheap, probably because the good stuff is shipped off, and the local transport costs are high.

      You're bagging out the UK tertiary education system in favour of NZ's? Just wow. So you've never worked with someone was qualified at some dodgy former tech, have you?

      As for the bloody All Blacks, seriously, speak for yourself. They don't exemplify anything to me - other than the occasional drunken idiocies and dickwits doing party political broadcasts on Election Day. I have no interest and I was born and bred by a rugby player (possibly the reason for the lack of interest). Of course, the Poms are just as boring about whatever footie team they support.

      As for work/life balance, given the utterly shite pay in NZ and ridiculous house prices - Auckland is in the top ten unaffordable cities again - you need to get something to compensate. In London, people work and commute horrendous hours. But at least pay in the IT-related sectors isn't too bad.

  5. Jason Hindle

    Best place I've visited

    And they're looking people to emigrate*. The only thing that put me off? I don't drive. NZ is going to end up being about a much fun as Texas, if you don't have a set of wheels (preferably a 4x4). Auckland is photogenic and usable, but a European city slicker is quickly going to run out of things to do (you have to like the outdoors). My favourite is Christchurch, on the South Island (good grief, I wept for that place - my visit was not long before the first major quake). Oh, and it's true; you can't beat a local flat white.

    * First immigration officer I met seemed a pit peeved I didn't want to move there.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Best place I've visited

      Looked at moving to NZ about 10years ago. They were running a big Move to NZ drive but it was totally aimed at getting Kiwis to go home - it was full of the "cultural fit" type euphemisms that seemed like the Keep Australia White campaigns in the 50s

      The real problem with NZ is that it's such a small population that it's hard for a couple to get a job in the same city. Not much point emigrating if you get a programming job in Wellington and your wife is offered a teaching job in Auckland.

      Ended up in Vancouver which is basically New Zealand friendliness+scenery with cultural diversity and the US near enough to go shopping.

  6. OzBob

    Auckland is a separate world in its own from the rest of NZ

    and many people actively chose not to go there. It is more cosmopolitan but is also jammed with loads of people in close proximity, in NZ terms (two harbours on opposite sides of the isthmus). The North Shore (where your author was based) is quite well off, with South and West Auckland being the grotty areas. There are loads of foreigners there as well (orientals and pacific islanders mostly) from the Pacific Rim Nations, so expect a different cultural vibe to the place.

    1. Trixr

      Re: Auckland is a separate world in its own from the rest of NZ

      "Orientals"? What is this, an Agatha Christie novel?

      As for the Polynesians, they're mostly descendants of families who have been there since the 60s or 70s. I think the second generation qualifies as "locals".

      As for South and West Auckland being universally "grotty", perhaps you should get out more. My family live in South Auckland. I saw more crime when I lived in Ponsonby (admittedly while the area was mid-gentrification).

      1. OzBob

        Re: Auckland is a separate world in its own from the rest of NZ

        We actually say "asians" here rather than "orientals", but the word "asians" means pakistani and indian origins in the UK, rather than the type of people Prince Phillip would casually comment on their physical appearance.

        have you ever seen "once were warriors". my brother was a sparky for the housing corp, he said it was a documentary.

    2. greenawayr

      Re: Auckland is a separate world in its own from the rest of NZ

      Have to be honest, having spent 4 months travelling the length and bredth of NZ, I could quite happily live there and never want to visit Auckland.

      It was nice enough, but it's a city and that's not what NZ is about. I'd much rather look to one of the smaller cities (Tauranga on Bay of Plenty has plenty going for it) and make a compromise in my role than Auckland.

      However, if I was going to do it properly I'd just take a real gamble, move to Wanaka and set up a new business (on the assumption I'd not find much SHarePoint work there) and let the wife do something in the tourist trade. Tourism is what NZ does best, so I'd get on board.

      However, above all of that, I'd much prefer to move there without the requirement to work and just enjoy seeing the place all over again.

  7. LINCARD1000
    Mushroom

    After having moved from NZ to Norway for 5 years then returned, it was a bit disappointing to see the property market doing what it's doing and the cost of living having risen so dramatically. I love this country of mine, I really do - but am not so blinkered that it is the be-all and end-all of places.

    Pay rates compared with the rest of the world suck and it's friggin' expensive to live here. Even the stuff we make and export (wood, wool, meat, dairy) are ridiculously expensive. We also complain a lot and some of us have an over-inflated sense of self-worth. But we do have lifestyle going for us.

    Happy to hear that Mr Mullard had/is having a mostly positive experience living here though :-)

    BTW Mr Editor, Mt Doom is based on Mount Ngauruahoe, not Ruapehu

    http://www.gns.cri.nz/Home/Learning/Science-Topics/Volcanoes/New-Zealand-Volcanoes/Ngauruhoe

    But it is located right next door, along with Mt Tongariro. Icon for volcanoes going 'poof'.

  8. David Roberts

    Just don't ask about the cheese

    Tasty or sharp.

    That's it, move along, nothing more to see here.

    That said, love the place.

    1. LINCARD1000
      Pint

      Re: Just don't ask about the cheese

      Quite partial to Colby meself...

    2. Trixr

      Re: Just don't ask about the cheese

      Hm, there are a few different cheeses out there, but I agree that compared to any country in Europe, there's aways to go.

      https://www.kapiticollection.co.nz/#/cheese

      http://www.whitestonecheese.com/

      Do a bit of a google for "artisan cheese" in NZ.

      1. David Roberts

        Re: Just don't ask about the cheese

        The comment was a bit tongue in cheek :-)

        We even found a place south of Auckland which made local Dutch style cheeses which were very good.

        With respect to pay (l know a couple of IT people who moved out a year or so ago) if you move from outside London then pay and life style can both improve considerably. Perhaps they were lucky. Perhaps their IT skils weren't quite as bad as another poster suggests?

  9. asdf

    hmm

    expats in NZ like Kim Dotcom? Still lovely place I hear.

  10. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Joke

    That safety video

    Seat belt signs are eliminated? What have they done to deserve that?

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