back to article Samsung's first Tizen smartphone is HERE ... by which we mean India

The first commercially available phone running Samsung's Linux-based Tizen mobile OS has finally launched in India, and proud papa Sammy says this is only the beginning for Tizen in 2015. We've been hearing rumblings about the Samsung Z1 for months now, but actually finding a market for the device has proved difficult for the …

  1. bazza Silver badge

    Tizen's dead...

    ...looks like Samsung are going to buy BlackBerry.

    1. PNGuinn
      FAIL

      Re: Tizen's dead...

      In which case bb is deader then dead. Ok Sammy might get some useful tech and possibly a few patents but what would they want with BB's os? Add a load of extra crud and make it like their Andriod offerings? That'll go down really well with the remaining BB demographic.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Tizen's dead...

        >Ok Sammy might get some useful tech and possibly a few patents but what would they want with BB's os? Add a load of extra crud and make it like their Andriod offerings?

        There is a very good reason why Samsung put that Touchwiz crud on their phones, and it is the same reason that they give you their own apps that duplicate the functionality of Google's, such as an app store, mail client, calendar and translator...

        The reason is that Samsung want the option of leaving Google. The idea of Samsung having that option would give them more influence with Google. Samsung could potentially merely swap to the non-Googley AOSP Android - like Amazon have done - or go with Tizen or (possibly) QNX. The point is, whatever the OS, the user experience could be much the same as the existing TouchWiz UI that Samsung users are familiar with.

        Thing is, Blackberry's QNX is a better fit for devices like smartwatches and wirelessly-controlled light bulbs. Android or Tizen could run a car's 'Infotainment Centre', but is reliable enough to run the car itself. Samsung, with their diverse product portfolio, could get more use out of QNX than BB have.

        1. bazza Silver badge

          Re: Tizen's dead...

          @Dave 126,

          "Thing is, Blackberry's QNX is a better fit for devices like smartwatches and wirelessly-controlled light bulbs. Android or Tizen could run a car's 'Infotainment Centre', but is reliable enough to run the car itself. Samsung, with their diverse product portfolio, could get more use out of QNX than BB have."

          Hmm, well one surmises that you don't work in the auto industry. Whilst Android or Tizen might be capable of running an infotainment centre, what the auto industry is actually choosing is BlackBerry's QNX instead. Even Apple's CarPlay is nothing but an app that runs on top of QNX.

          @Andy Prough,

          "Yeah, cause who wouldn't want a TV and a washer-dryer running BB10?? Can you imagine all the thumb-swipe options Blackberry can pack into a freezer or a toaster-oven?"

          Perhaps not on a fridge, but perhaps on a phone. Samsung are clearly looking for a new phone OS. BB10 is pretty good, you should give it a try sometime. Anyway, if you were a far east Asian Android phone manufacturer getting stiffed by both Google and the cheap Chinese outfits and you were looking for a way out that retained backward compatibility, acquiring BB10 is about the only bet out there.

          Anyway, it seems that BlackBerry are denying rumours of take over negotiations, so perhaps it's not going to happen. But here's a list of some of the things they'd be getting if they did buy BlackBerry:

          1) An OS to call their own

          2) Paratek antennas; signal reception on Z30 and Passport is way better than anything else

          3) Best available mobile security

          4) The leading mobile device management system

          5) A hundred million BBM users

          6) Strangely good loudspeakers

          7) A strong foothold in the auto industry

          1. Dave 126 Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: Tizen's dead...

            @Bazza

            You are of course correct. I meant to say "Android or Tizen could run a car's 'Infotainment Centre', but [QNX] is reliable enough to run the car itself." but I left out 'QNX', so my sentence was the opposite of what I meant to say!

            Thanks for the correction.

            The Samsung Blackberry rumour has now been denied.... Oh well. QNX does seem a good fit for 'connected home' appliances.

            I don't work in the automotive industry, but I know that CANBUS clearly divides the safety critical systems (engine, brakes etc) from the infotainment and HVAC systems. I wouldn't feel comfortable in a vehicle that used Android or Tizen for its drivetrain.

      2. Andy Nugent

        Re: Tizen's dead...

        There's a remaining BB demographic?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Holmes

      Re: Tizen's dead...

      @bazza - "...looks like Samsung are going to buy BlackBerry."

      Yeah, cause who wouldn't want a TV and a washer-dryer running BB10?? Can you imagine all the thumb-swipe options Blackberry can pack into a freezer or a toaster-oven?

      1. Matt Piechota

        Re: Tizen's dead...

        "Yeah, cause who wouldn't want a TV and a washer-dryer running BB10?? Can you imagine all the thumb-swipe options Blackberry can pack into a freezer or a toaster-oven?"

        BB10, being QNX-based would do a fantastic job of running small-memory devices like that. I loved working with QNX, it was so small and fast for little systems.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: Tizen's dead...

          As I understand it, the main two issues with Tizen are the fuzziness surrounding its licencing, and the perception of it as being way too late to market to compete with other mobile phone OSs.

          However, Samsung see it as an OS for TVs, watches, cameras and household appliances, from light bulbs to fridges, not just phones.

          That said, Blackberry's QNX OS is more suitable for home automation (an area that Samsung, with its wide range of consumer goods and appliances, is competing in) as it is much smaller than Linux-based OSs, and because of its proven and certified reliability.

          Samsung Buying Blackberry rumour... Interesting.

    3. PleebSmash

      Re: Tizen's dead...

      So Tizen runs HTML5 apps, but no compatibility with the Android apps found on the vast majority of Samsung smartphones.

      Given today's news, for the first time ever I believe Project Ara has a better chance of success than Tizen.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Tizen's dead...

        >So Tizen runs HTML5 apps, but no compatibility with the Android apps found on the vast majority of >Samsung smartphones.

        >Given today's news, for the first time ever I believe Project Ara has a better chance of success than Tizen.

        That was my first thought, but I'd never considered how developers are attracted to HTML 5... the yet-unrealised dream is that they write an app once and it runs on any platform.

  2. Breen Whitman

    A new entertainment package called "Joy Box".

    Now theres a pick up line.

  3. Haro

    Blackberry Desperation

    Oh, I wanted to be first to mention the Blackberry thing, since I'm Canadian and all. Drat.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Holmes

      Re: Blackberry Desperation

      Funny - here I thought South Korea had already bought all of Canada. Or was that China that bought it? I'm confused now...

      1. Haro

        Re: Blackberry Desperation

        Everything those guys bought is now worthless. :)

  4. PNGuinn

    That seems excessively cheap for a high end phone..

    ...with such a superb high res screen too!

    NOT.

    I know Linux is good on low end kit, but 768Mb of ram and 4 GB of ram???

    That must be a mighty small joy box.

    OK at a decent price - say about 50 quid - and with none of the Sammy bloat, and full source code I might be interested -

    if the thing was actually usable AND secure.

    But I'd still want more ram and onboard storage.

    Dreams.....

    Roll on Puppy phone or Debian phone (without SYSTEMD PLEASE)

    Personally, I'm watching Jolla / Sailfish.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: @PNGuinn: Where's my Sailfish?

      "Personally, I'm watching Jolla / Sailfish."

      Unfortunately watching is all you can do, as for mere mortals there's no way of loading it on to an existing phone. If you're a developer, willing to hack and put up with a part finished product then yes, otherwise it's a firm no.

      If Jolla want Sailfish to see any serious adoption then they need to release some fully functioning phone images for a handful of popular kit with large user bases (Sammy S3 and S4?) in a manner similar to (but hopefully more user-friendly) than Cyanogenmod. When you've got a few thousand early adopters on board you can build your reputation, brand and experience, and get much better feedback than developers can offer, but as things stand it seems from the outside that Jolla have followed Nokia's "mañana" approach to software development. When the tech sites are full of chatter by the early adopters about how excellent (hopefully) Sailfish is, then they would create the sort of traction for more mass market approaches. I would have thought if the device images were full functioning they could even sell it - I wouldn't expect them to be able to charge a very high price, but if you sold 7,000 downloads for a tenner that'd pay for a developer for a year (and I'd guess Jolla's accounts are currently notable for a complete lack of income).

      Come on Jolla, get your @rse in gear! There's ten quid on offer in this house. Individually that's not much, but it's probably a lot more than your total sales income last year.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @PNGuinn: Where's my Sailfish?

        I think that there are Sailfish builds available (or at least in development) for other phones, or if you are a mere mortal (like me) you could always just buy a Jolla phone, ready to use, either from Jolla themselves or from other well-known internet retailers (or from actual shops in some countries where they have managed to make arrangements so far).

        Jolla obviously have quite a task ahead of them to get their dinghy safely moored at the platform (after Nokia set fire to the jetty in the first place), but although with all honesty I would have to describe Sailfish as still being essentially at late-beta stage even now, the basic functionality works well enough, and each (roughly monthly) OS update does bring significant improvements (and a nice picture of a pretty Finnish lake..). And this is the first time that I have ever had a phone with that level of OS support.

        Some of the core apps (eg, browser, calendar) are still rather poor, but you can install many Android apps if need be, and even now there are some gems of native apps available (although Jolla really need to hurry up and enable their app store for paid apps, if they are remotely serious about wanting to encourage a developer base).

        Best guesses on the interwebs seem to be that Jolla phone sales (bearing in mind that unfortunately they are not really well known other than among tech enthusiasts, former Nokia loyal fans, or Finnish people) seem to be in the mid 5-figures range over the year that the phone has been available. That's obviously a tiny footprint in terms of global phone sales, but they have to start from somewhere, and the fact that the Jolla Tablet fundraiser was well over-subscribed shows that there is definitely some demand for an alternative player.

        Perhaps Jolla might not actually make it in the long run, but for a tiny company to have got this far is a fair achievement in itself. Hopefully the income from existing phone sales and the tablet fundraiser will see them continue to improve and increase sales and their market share this year. If you like what you see and want to support the Sailfish alternative, then you know what you need to do. If you don't fully like what you see, then you can always make a suggestion at together.jolla.com, perhaps the idea of OS images available for download with suggested donations is worth proposing to them?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That seems excessively cheap for a high end phone..

      I have a Moto E Gen 1 with 1GB of RAM and 4GB of onboard storage and it's more than capable enough for me. More storage is an SD card away.

      If you want cheap, you have to make compromises.

  5. JassMan

    Nice price point

    If it really is only $92, it sounds like a good value little phone. I would happily pay £92stg for a phone with that spec although I would prefer a few more pixels. The Raspberry Pi shows that running linux linux in 256MB will make the 768MB a real luxury.

    Hopefully they will release an upgraded version for the European/US market. Just hope they don't get attacked yet again for those nicely rounded corners.

    1. Captain DaFt

      Re: Nice price point

      "I would happily pay £92stg for a phone with that spec although I would prefer a few more pixels."

      Not to pick on you personally, JassMan, but this is starting to be a major gripe with me.

      Does anyone remember what a phone is supposed to do? Do any of the manufacturers?

      A phone that can take such a high quality picture that you can count the hairs on a gnat's arse at 300 yards is useless if you sound like you're eating a fistful of crackers with your head stuffed in a bucket when you actually try to talk to anybody on it.

      Lately, I've been able to tell when someone has a new phone when they call, simply because I can't understand a word they say!

      "Mruf, pie gorpa pewpo! Quefu?"

      "Uh, text me that, OK?"

      Lamar: Dude, I got a new phone, Cool, huh?

      1. Haro

        Re: Nice price point

        I don't think any of my kids have ever the phone as a phone. Just try to hold up a monster phablet to your head!

      2. Andy Nugent

        Re: Nice price point

        Voice calls are pretty much a "nice to have" feature on a smartphone.

        http://news.o2.co.uk/?press-release=making-calls-has-become-fifth-most-frequent-use-for-a-smartphone-for-newly-networked-generation-of-users

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If its anything like Touchwiz you can keep it

  7. DropBear

    Push the power button four times and the Z1 will send a canned help message to your primary contacts

    Let's hope then the "take screenshot" is not also assigned to the same button (as is in the Galaxy S series, also being notoriously hard to get right and needing lots of attempts to trigger)...

  8. Ken 16 Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    I had a Bada phone

    Samsung Wave, I used it bought it NOS after the OS had died and ran it as a work phone for nearly 2 years. Build quality was excellent, I could get 3 working days battery life from it, it had good call quality, video recording and could get to my emails and LinkedIn. Most importantly it could offer a hotspot. If I had a feature phone that could do all that, I'd be happy, I don't need a big/touch screen.

    I moved from that to BB10 for work...

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