Climate supremo deploys knitwear in war on patio heaters

research oversight - what a surprise

Anyone factored in the effect of all those extra sheep?

'Wasteful'?

So, what's the definition of wasteful, exactly? Something that produces (unused) heat in the process of performing its function? Or is the problem that the very USE of them is wasteful, as seems to be the implication?

At one point does the government get involved in regulating things just because they're not *necessary*? After all, you could easily make the argument that a game console is by definition wasteful - no matter how little extra heat it produces, it will always use electricity. And it's certainly not REQUIRED that you use a game console.

So when does the EU realize this, and start banning everything that's merely too decadent?

Stay tuned...

Oh please....

Phil Woolas... recommending jumpers....

That's just too easy.

On my way to the cloakroom now!

SMIDSY

Never mind the cost to the environment of daytime running lights, I'm more worried about the effect on the accident rate involving motorcycles. Using our headlights in daylight helps us to stand out and gives us a fighting chance of being seen by other motorists. What happens when every road is festooned with daytime headlights? We become invisible again that's what, and as sure as eggs is eggs riders will be killed and injured by the SMIDSY brigade. "Sorry Mate, I DIdn't See You."

Paris, cos the lights may be on but there'll be nobody at home.

Uhm...

ktCO2? Would that be kilo tonnes of CO2?

Karma tags can ogle too?

I'm not familiar with the term.

Or is it just more newspeak from our Obsfucating Overlords?

So jumpers don't work no more?

Is that what you're saying.

Well, might as well get naked and let the wind caress the wee man...

benefits

presumably there is some benefit to using lights during the day. Reduced crashes i'd guess. So factor in the energy wasted due to a motorway crash that now wouldn't happen.

On a different note, 0.5% seems very high. Why not use LED driving lights?

I guess...

...every new car should be fitted with a patio heater then, as they're obviously less wasteful than extra lights.

Mine's the singed one.

Daytime running lights.

From a driving, if not environmental pov., lack of daytime running lights is just plain idiotic. Anyone living and driving on the Continent can appreciate the cognitive benefits. Motorcyclists like me included.

Would daytime running lights be more acceptable to UK drivers if they came in imperial sizes? ;-)

Phil Woolas isn't qualified to talk about anything.

He's never had a proper job, unless you count being president of the National Union of Students as a job?

He's the worst kind of politician - a career politician, who wouldn't know a melting icecap from his elbow.

Patio Zips.

Patio heaters, another candidate for the museum of redundant technology. As in the more patio heaters in use, the more greenhouse gas produced, the faster the world heats, the less we will even need patio heaters. I reconmend that people heat their patios and smoking clientele with reverse cycle air-con, that way when the planet starts getting to warm outdoors, we can use the reverse cycle air-con to cool our patios/smokers.

How much CO2 do smokers contribute?

Daylight runners? Will they be any use in the blazing sun all year round climate of the future?

Always look on the nagging side of life.

Obviously patio heaters cannot be banned, as there is no fury as suburbanites spurned --- government would simply fall. The likes of you are already nagging on about the supposed nanny state (except for intermittent calls for more rules for things you object to).

So basically DEFRA spends little time on the topic (half as much as you), mentioning the obvious solution. What exactly more do you want?

Oh, an exposition on an unrelated topic, car safety. Nice one. Also very subtle of you not to point out that there's an obvious conservation benefit in every car crash and fender bender avoided, as even a single side panel costs a lot of energy between manufacture, transport and installation. Not to mention the human costs and lost working hour, whether the accident was slight, grieveous or a tragedy.

As an impatient person, I anyways go for the jumper solution (though not those scratch ones made by endemic grannies, but the fleecy kind presumably made from recycled PET bottles), I can't be bothered with waiting for the stuff to heat up and be make sure the wind doesn't blow the heat away and all fiddling around involved.

Patio Heaters Schmatio Heaters

How on earth did we manage in the cold summer before we had patio heaters?

OK OK, I know the argument about smokers and pubs but have you seen the number of electric heaters that some pubs use? Just imagine the extra electricity this has to use - not just from a CO2 perspective but from a cost perspective. That power has to be paid for - and who will pay - you, the drinker in higher drinks and food prices. Pubs are always compaining about their profits and so I would imagine that they must be caughht between a rock and a hard place. Heat the patio to keep the smoker drinking, put up the prices to pay for the heaters and run the risk of pushing punters away or swallow the cost, look at decreased profits and perhaps a few pub closures.

Anyway, what's wrong with looking after the environment? What's the worst that could happen if all the scientific hooplah IS wrong? We'd just end up with a nicer place to live.

Paris - because she knows a nice place to live when she sees one

Northern Lights.

I know that in Norway they have been running with lights during the daytime for quite some time (well, long enough that I can't remember a time when they didn't anyway, and I'm in my late twenties, so for 10 years at least.. which was when I first statrted driving there..) I haven't been back for the last two years, but I'd imagine their still at it.

It does help you to be more aware of cars around you... not to mention noticing cars much further away.. wherever you are in a car or walking on foot. Until now I thought you had the same in the UK as well, just most people didn't bother. In norway it's an offence not to use your lights in the daytime, modern cars simply turn on the lights as soon as you start the engine.

I guess the real question is how much it helps (in terms of less people killed) versus the extra polution.

IT angle?

Heat the Atmosphere

The Patio Heater is the most dingbat idea ever created . How much warmth for a patio person in a bit a breeze- bugger all at best.

Anyone wasting their money on this shitbrained contraption needs treatment at the place when kind white coated men guide you around.

"account for a relatively small amount of energy use"

That's an interesting argument from The Government.

Consider that car exhaust emissions only account for 1% of CO2 produced globally.

You'd have to agree that's a "relatively small amount" and that they should leave us motorists the bloody well alone.

Mine's the one with I LOVE MY HUMMER screen-printed on the back.

From experience on the continent.

Problem: EU funded research indicating that running with lights on all the time reduces accidents. (Never mind that they've mysteriously forgotten to exclude from their statistics those accidents in the data samples where, due to conditions, they should have been on anyway - i.e. someone was breaking an *existing* law by not having 'em on).

Solution: Pass law mandating 24hr headlamp usage.

Thing they've forgotten: The vast number of vehicles manufactured these days that make it nigh-on impossible to change a bulb yourself if you know what you're doing and completely impossible if you don't.

Result: An absolutely massive increase in the number of vehicles running around at night / in heavy rain / snow / fog with one or more light(s) burned out.

Effect: Now everyone's looking for moving lights rather than moving vehicles, any vehicle with its lights burned out becomes invisible, resulting in some very impressive shunts.

Of course, nobody could have predicted that.

Great (not)

Soon we'll all have noddy "OMG a car!" lights, mandated to be on at all times- because it's very hard to spot a car, on a ROAD of all places, in bright sunshine.

I wonder when they'll bring back the red flag law? (*worries that many a true word is spoken in jest*)

I agree with a previous poster- soon our benevolant government will individually approve or disapprove of all possible human activities, and legislate accordingly. Of course as-of-yet unclassified activities will meet a 'default deny' policy.

Daylight running lights

Is the best thing to come out of Europe for a while! In countries that have adopted it the accident rate droped by at least 20%. Bear in mind for the negligible amount of extra fuel used, if you save one serious accident, you avoid three police cars, an ambulance and possibly a fire tender, all racing to an accident, and then spending an hour or ten idling at the roadside. The amount of fuel used to respond to an accident is enormous.

And in response to the motorbike lights becoming less conspicuous, make all dipped beam bike lights either yellow or purple, and you solve that problem too.

@daytime running lights naysayers

How many times have you seen somebody driving on a motorway in muggy, low visibility weather with no lights on? I've seen it a lot. Its especially interesting when the hapless motorist is driving in a dark grey metallic car which becomes all but invisible after a disnatnce of about 10 yards.

Daytime running lights are a great idea, because there's so many people like that on our roads. It is not so you can see them in the day: it is so you can see them at dusk / in the rain / in the early morning fog when they have STILL forgotten to put their lights on!

Running lights

If you cant see a large metal object coming down the road in daylight maybe you should consider not driving a car yourself . I have a Volvo and I have mine turned off . If you want me to turn them on then you can supply with me with free replacement bulbs when they blow as I cant afford new bulbs due to the price of the sodding petrol .

Didn't someone else mention woolly jumpers?

I remember that in the old days Edwina Currie suggested that old folk should don knitwear. Look what happened to her. I'll get me coat, cos it's nearer. I Like these greenie types who moan on these boards about how much greenhouse gas is produced by *whatever* technology, whilst ignoring the fact computer they are posting on uses the same stuff that they tell us to save. I wonder how much electricity we would save if we (God forbid) switch the Internet off?

DRL's

As a biker and Volvo driver I think they are a great idea. To the prat who said he just ignores anything that he desn't think is a bike I just hope you are driving some unsafe bucket that my Volvo can plough through when you just ignore me 'cause I am not on my bike. I'd rather you get injured because of your stupidity then me. What does it matter if it's a car, bike, cyclist or padestrian? You should still try to miss them

Lights make everybody easier to see - espcially in a low sun situation where you have t see the cars against the glare of the sun. Without lights you just dissapear, with lights you are visable.

And as for the extra fuel usage - it's that small you don't even notice it... Pulling off a bit sharp frm the lights uses more fuel than using your lights do. As does using the stereo (lights 2+55W, most stereos 4*50W) or your AirCo etc etc etc.

Why?

Seeing as global warming is a myth fabricated by the green industry (and the scientists who like all the taxpayer's grants), who gives a stuff?

The oil will run out, true, and that is a reason to look at alternatives and use less fuel; but can we please call time on the global warming bull-crap?

Wooly jumpers? Car lights?

Do the morons currently ruining this country have nothing more important to do?

And they could cut a lot of waste just by getting rid of all the stupid, uncessary "jobs" they have created - Climate Supremo indeed. What next, Useless Fraking Role Supremo? Minister Responsible For Creating Useless Roles? Parliamentary Committee For dreaming Up New Ways To Waste Tax Money?

We should stop sending so much money north to Scotland and let them have the [EXPLETIVE DELETED] Scotsman who seems hell-bent on reducing England to third-world status instead.

Thank you so much, all you who voted (New) Labour.

Fire, cos that's where we're headed.

@Anonymous Volvo driving Coward

Fair enough; If you think I'm a prat for giving more consideration to motorcyclists than cars I'll stop leaving a bigger gap if the vehicle in front is a bike, I won't move over so they can filter past in traffic and I won't give any more of a sideways gap in between them and me as I overtake them in a high wind than I do far a car. (sorry to the rest of you bikers, you've just lost a friend).

@Why?

Quote-

"Seeing as global warming is a myth fabricated by the green industry"

Global warming a myth eh? Tell that to the residents of pacific islands like Tuvala etc which with rising sea levels caused by the "mythical" global warming are slowing sinking. Prat.

Mines the life jacket because I live on an island too.

@Pondule

How about leaving the gap required for saftey whether it's a car, bike, cyclist or padestrain???

How about not driving on the white line just because you don't see a biker around? By the time you see a biker and move the biker has *ALREADY* had to make course and speed corrections due to your ignorance.

Don't try to play the matar here - you said you drive like a prat except for bikers (and then contradict that by saying you block bikers until you see them - and chances are you only see 10% of them in my experience as a biker - even if the biker has headlights, hazzards and flashing the main beam whilst stuck behind someone like you.

Learn to drive!

Annonymous Bike Riding and Volvo Driving (in that order) Coward.

@ running horn

The car of the future will be bright orange, festooned with flashing amber beacons, have a maximum speed of 5 mph, and emit loud honks at 0.2 second intervals punctuated by an electronic voice shouting "DANGER! CAR IN AREA!". The car will have no windows, only a 2 metre diameter speedometer in place of the dashboard, reading from 0-5mph. The interior will feature a loudspeaker issuing demotivational messages, including "you're a bastard", and a hammer will hit the driver on the head if he accidentally reaches more than 3mph by pressing on the very sensitive accelerator. There will be a large sharp spike in the centre of the steering wheel.