back to article Ford recalls SUVs … to fix the UI

Ford has issued a recall for its Lincoln MKC SUVs, because drivers trying to operate the gearshift are shutting the car down by mistake. As computers invade the world of motor vehicles, and car-makers replace the old ignition key assembly with a start button, it seems they're having to relearn the basics of interface design. …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Picture confused me a bit to start.

    It looked to me like the "buttons" were the slanted white segments and I was going to comment that the labels were ambiguously placed, but I *think* the buttons are the black sections in between but it doesn't seem very obvious to me.

    1. Jim 59

      This story has to be fake. Completely unbelievable they would place the start/stop button near any other controls. Ditto the airbag thing... outrageously stupid. News sites reporting it bit I can't see anything official from Ford...

      1. Dr Patrick J R Harkin

        @Jim 59

        "This story has to be fake. Completely unbelievable they would place the start/stop button near any other controls. "

        I'm not so sure. My Volvo (a marque with a fairly good reputation for safe design) has put the heated steering wheel switch (something you often want to turn off while driving) BETWEEN the ABS and Lane drift warning switches (things you generally don't want to turn off).

        They've also put the fuel cap release and the tailgate release side by side which has caught me out a few times!

  2. Ken Y-N
    Stop

    Push-button gear change? Really?

    Regardless of the power button placement, buttons for gears means you have to take your eyes off the road, although with an automatic I suppose gearshifts are minimal.

    Oh well, at least their UI designers resisted the urge to implement gear changes by tracing the appropriate H pattern on the touchscreen.

    1. solo

      Re: UI designers resisted the urge

      They will now want for creating HTML buttons for this to keep interface up to date. Or a bit of Flash.

      1. big_D Silver badge

        Re: UI designers resisted the urge

        Third parties will shortly be offering Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche and other gear shift "skins" for the touch display. The freebie one will be a Mk 1. Ford Fiesta :-D

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

      Trust me, it can be worse - a button activated handbrake on manual which will work only if you put your foot on the footbrake so you can no longer "start off handbrake uphill".

      The imbecile in GM which put that on the new Opels should be made to drive in mountains for a week as a punishment. I was in a place where 10% gradient is considered "flat" last week and it was "fun". Trying to join into traffic coming uphill from 15% gradient side street with such "hand brake" was definitely not a rewarding experience.

      As far as push buttons for gears for auto, the UI for that has settled for automatic long ago as well. There is no point to reinvent the wheel - BMW M series and Daihatsu F-Speed have shown the "right" button based gear shift decades ago.

      1. Mattjimf

        Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

        The other issue with button (or electronic) handbrakes are that they fail.

        My mum's car was hit in a car park by a rouge car where the electronic handbrake failed. The owner, when he returned to find his car across from where he parked, said it had happened a number of times, but they couldn't find a fault with it.

        Also it's not as flamboyant pulling handbrake turns with your mates in the back by pushing a button.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

          > My mum's car was hit in a car park by a rouge car

          Yeah, they're dangerous, those red ones.

          1. Captain Hogwash
            Go

            Re: Yeah, they're dangerous, those red ones.

            That's why they're red - to warn you of the danger.

          2. Trigonoceps occipitalis

            Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

            Quite right. In the mid 80s the advice was to avoid red cars because they had an insurance loading. The theory was that the colour was aggressive and if you made a mistake or just took a chance the other drivers ceased to be mild mannered Clark Kents.

        2. ChrisC Silver badge

          Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

          "The other issue with button (or electronic) handbrakes are that they fail."

          As do ye olde fashioned ratchety lever type.

          IMO the real issue of your story is that the other car owner was a muppet - if you're driving a car with a known issue in the parking brake system, then you really ought to be taking additional steps (e.g. leaving it in gear or chocking the wheels) to mitigate against any failures in that system, especially if you've experienced such failures on several occasions and know the cause still hasn't been identified, let alone resolved.

      2. Dr. Mouse

        Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

        a button activated handbrake on manual which will work only if you put your foot on the footbrake so you can no longer "start off handbrake uphill"

        I drove for Audi for a while after leaving university. Some of their models featured this. However, they also included a hill-start setup whereby you could just use the throttle (and clutch if manual) to set off. Once the car realise you were setting off (putting enough torque down to the wheels) the handbrake released.

        Seemed like a brilliant idea. It seemed well designed. Most of the ones I drove were manual, and so you needed the car to be in gear, have high enough revs, and slip the clutch for it to work. I can't remember how it worked on autos.

        I can see, though, that it could end up being dangerous in automatics. Left in drive with handbrake on, reach over to get something from the glove box and accidentally press the throttle enough for it to disengage, and you end up either shooting forward or rolling back.

        1. djack

          Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

          "However, they also included a hill-start setup whereby you could just use the throttle (and clutch if manual) to set off. Once the car realise you were setting off (putting enough torque down to the wheels) the handbrake released."

          Yep. Vauxhall / Opel cars operate exactly the same. Whoever sold the car to voland's right hand obviously didn't explain that method of releasing the brake - the dealer that sold my car didn't show the other way to me. The car will do both though I've yet to see a use case for the 'manual' method.

          I've had it for over six months now and have never rolled back on a hill start. That said, not having direct control of the brake feels strange and I still don't really trust it so hill starts are scary.

          1. James Cullingham

            Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

            Use case for manual disengagement is a slow downhill start.

            I found this shortly after getting a Renault Laguna with automatic handbrake. I parked in a short drive that sloped steeply uphill away from the road, such that to start I had to reverse into the road, first easing back to check visibility. At the time I had not spotted that the brake could be disengaged by applying the footbrake then operating the manual switch, so achieved this by selecting reverse, applying sufficient torque to get the parking brake to disengage automatically, then getting very quickly onto the footbrake before shooting out into the road. Much nicer, obviously, to disengage manually then roll back gently.

          2. Christoph

            Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

            What happens when someone who learned on that automatic handbrake system then drives a car without it and tries to do a hill start?

            1. Nigel Whitfield.

              Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

              I would guess they just get used to it; it doesn't take long to adapt.

              My car is a left hand drive DS23; on that, you apply the parking brake by pressing a pedal with your left foot, and release it with a lever in your left hand. The clutch is hydraulically controlled, as it's a semi-auto.

              And, after the first few times you just get used to the way of doing it. I found it fairly easy to adapt last time I used a Zipcar which had one of the fancy modern electric handbrakes (a VW Golf).

              I don't think I'm particularly faster to adapt to things than other people, though perhaps having a DS I'm more open to the quirky.

            2. Peter Simpson 1
              Thumb Up

              Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

              What happens when someone who learned on that automatic handbrake system then drives a car without it and tries to do a hill start?

              That's when they begin to really learn to drive a manual shift car :-)

          3. Voland's right hand Silver badge

            Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

            Quote: Yep. Vauxhall / Opel cars operate exactly the same. Whoever sold the car to voland's right hand obviously didn't explain that method of releasing the brake - the dealer that sold my car didn't show the other way to me. The car will do both though I've yet to see a use case for the 'manual' method.

            Rented car, figured it myself. As far as the use case - try driving in central/northern Italy or Spain. Somewhere in a city with 15% hills and try joining traffic uphill. Bonus points for doing so with a proverbial Sicilian driver stuck up your a*** behind you leaving only 15cm between yours and his bumper.

          4. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

            "That said, not having direct control of the brake feels strange and I still don't really trust it so hill starts are scary."

            Subaru have had something like this since the 70s - they branded it as "hill holder" for manual shifters.

        2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

          Quote "Seemed like a brilliant idea."

          Bollocks. Now try to join into traffic from a 15 degree gradient side street uphill. With someone behind you and minimal visibilty (something quite common in Spain, Italy, Greek islands, Dalmacian coast, etc). This is not just "uphill start". It is uphill start with "hesitation" which is an essential part of driving there.

          With a normal manual handbrake you can easily nudge out, see someone driving across, stop, wait, nudge, stop wait then join on the 5th attempt. Your hand is on the handbrake, clutch is down, other foot on the gas. You do not move any of them between controls. Trivial with manual . In fact it is a mandatory driving exam exercise in a lot of countries (I had to do it 20+ years ago when learning to drive). Trivial with automatic too - the gearbox does it for you (slipping back on a hill will light up a gearbox fault).

          With a magic handbrake? The moment you depress the clutch it deactivates so you are now committed to behaving like the proverbial german car driver - accelerating the Me109e onto an attack vector and the other drivers be damned. You cannot abort "the attack" without _MOVING_ a foot or a hand to another control. This is why it is a bad idea. Utterly stupid design - both Audi and GM.

          1. Dr. Mouse

            Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

            Now try to join into traffic from a 15 degree gradient side street uphill. With someone behind you and minimal visibilty

            I agree, this is a less than practical system in such a situation. I certainly prefer a manual hand brake (especially as part of the reason behind a hand brake is for emergency use, when all else fails you have a simple mechanical method of getting some braking).

            In this situation, I think I would be introducing a lot of wear on my clutch by balancing it, so I was ready as soon as a gap appeared, although this would depend on the precise circumstances. It would certainly be easier with a manual handbrake.

      3. thesykes

        Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

        Must've changed things since my car was built in 2012 then. Push button handbrake, releases automatically when you set off, provided you don't try and floor it.

      4. Alan Edwards

        Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

        > a button activated handbrake on manual which will work only if you put your foot on the

        > footbrake so you can no longer "start off handbrake uphill".

        Unless they've changed it, it will automatically release the parking brake when you pull away.

        If you want worse, try a 2013 Mercedes E-class. The "hand" brake is a foot pedal, released with a lever next to the steering wheel. Mine was an auto, so maybe the manual is different.

      5. Dave Horn

        Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

        Except... if you have a Opel / GM car with an electronic handbrake you also have hill hold assist as standard, so you don't need to use the handbrake at all.

        Take foot of brake, move to accelerator, release clutch, computer releases brake for you.

        The electronic handbrake is only practicable when stopped for a long time or parking.

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

        > Trying to join into traffic coming uphill from 15% gradient side street with such "hand brake" was definitely not a rewarding experience.

        I drove one of these systems for the first time when visiting the UK driving a hire Passat.

        One of the most convoluted and unintuitive systems I've ever encountered particularly for hill starts. It's not that it is particularly complicated once you understand how it works, it just lacks any kind of subtlety or sensitive control when trying to carefully enter traffic. I had the car for a week and I found it to be frustrating beyond belief and certainly designed by someone that doesn't have to drive in town/city traffic on a regular basis or where there are hills.

        Also, as someone else commented, the hand brake is supposed to be a failsafe, mechanical fallback that you expect to work regardless of anything else including control systems, battery etc.

    3. petur

      Re: Push-button gear change? Really?

      sorry, but we Europeans do not call it gear change, when all you do is tell the mechanics it is allowed to do its gear changing.

    4. Ken 16 Silver badge

      Like a Bristol 408 or a Facel Vega?

      or indeed a bunch of US cars.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Not the first

    Many, many years ago a Marina van I often drove (not out of choice) had something similar. Every time you put it into first gear your knuckle would hit the radio on/off button. Driving in London traffic was not a rewarding listening experience.

    1. Fred Dibnah

      Re: Not the first

      Similarly, every time I changed gear in my ancient Mini, my hand would rub against my g/f's thigh. That *was* rewarding.

      I notice from the last picture that Ford have now put the engine start/stop button right next to the air vent adjuster, and it's still adjacent to the PRNDL buttons. Have their people actually driven the thing, on real roads rather than test tracks?

      1. nematoad
        Happy

        Re: Not the first

        "Similarly, every time I changed gear in my ancient Mini, my hand would rub against my g/f's thigh. That *was* rewarding."

        Yeah, and they say that driving a Mini (an original one, of course) is the best fun you can have in car on your own.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: Not the first

          >Push-button gear change? Really?

          >Regardless of the power button placement, buttons for gears means you have to take your eyes off the road

          The button just toggles the Engine Management Unit to 'Sports Mode', so it isn't necessary to touch it. I've been recently driving a UK van, a manual 3 Litre turbo diesel, that has an 'Eco' button just in front of the gear stick. By default, the unladen van is stupidly fast - engaging 'Eco' mode makes it a bit saner.

  4. Mark 85
    WTF?

    .Somehow Lincoln - SUV - and 'gearshift sports-mode button' just don't seem to go together.

    1. theblackhand

      Of course they go together.

      Options:

      Sport option pack: The sport option pack consists of a racing strip and an additional sports button on the gearbox (add $999)

  5. skeptical i

    Taking the driving out of driving?

    I dunno, color me old-school, but it seems that with every passing year cars are looking less like transport devices that need to be actively controlled and more like barcaloungers that do all the thinking for you. Mind, I am not opposed to the idea of driverless cars (with all appropriate safeguards) but since we are not driverless yet, is it overly paranoid to be concerned that people behind the wheel of a new car might lose track of the idea that they are DRIVING and need to stay alert to what is on the other side of the windscreen? (Of course, our grandfathers said the same thing about automatic transmission and cruise control, right?)

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Taking the driving out of driving?

      Modern engines have been relying more and more on electronic control to improve performance and legislated efficiency targets. Some parameters in the ECU are set to the individual engine's tolerances when it leaves the factory, and adjust to compensate for engine wear over time (this is why ECU firmware can't just be downloaded and flashed - the original firmware needs to be cloned from the ECU, modified and then flashed back in).

      It isn't a bad idea for the driver to be able to have one set of engine ECU parameters for, say, good road conditions, and another for poor road conditions, since the differences can manifest as the 'feel' of the accelerator pedal. I find it useful that a van I often drive has a button that might as well be marked "Don't be so over-enthusiastic on the throttle response".

  6. roger stillick
    Holmes

    Tried on a 1956 Plymoth Hemi... still doesn't work...

    At least it's PRNDL, as mandated by the USDOT for vehicles sold in the USA... the old "Christine" pushbutton drives killed a lot of people= until banned.

    2012 brought a USDOT 2015 mandate to get drive controls off touch screens and brought back the PRNDL (Lincoln tried to comply= they forgot the adjacent stop button)...so all 2015 cars have the stop button at least 1 hand span away from the PRNDL ... some luxury cars use a rotary encoder to shift gears.

    IMHO= Yet again we get more USDOT mandated uniform driving controls...RS.

    1. mm0zct

      Re: Tried on a 1956 Plymoth Hemi... still doesn't work...

      I hope the rotary encoder is better made than the one on our office coffee machine (which controls the volume of coffee produced), you try and turn it back up to a full mug after someone made an espresso and the thing just skips up and down with about 5/8 clicks changing the value in the direction desired. That's after just a few years wear of a fairly industrial looking machine.

  7. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    *re*learn interface design? That presumes they learned it at least once before.

  8. Da Weezil

    In common with a lot of things on modern cars its about form over function.

    It doesn't matter how stupid or impractical as long as it looks /is seen to be *cool*.

    Many modern car light clusters illustrate this perfectly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      would this be the one with indicators inside the brake lights, so when braking, you can't see the indicator (granted indicating is now only used after you've stopped or cut someone up).

    2. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

      along

      with the recent innovation of small headlights...

      All the power of the old 55/60w headlight but concentrated into a point 5mm wide..*

      Its more like like looking at a pair of lasers coming towards you.. and for 5 secs after they've passed you can see nothing.

      Stir in cyclists on footpaths on the left side using bloody flashing strobe lights and you're left wondering why you're stuck in a hedge with 3 extra knee joints in each leg.

      Boris... using sunglasses to see.......at night

      *And its always bloody audis too

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: along

        Not to mention the stupid EU allowing brighter headlamps on cars with self-levelling suspension - looks lovely in the showroom as the dealer sits on the boot sill but effing useless driving along on a bumpy road (aka every single bloody road in the UK), cresting a hill etc where oncoming drivers are all dazzled to death.

  9. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Web UI design excellence now where the rubber hits the road

    Luckily we went to the Moon a bit earlier.

    "Yeah Neil, can you switch to camera #2 ... why did you hit Abort? OMG!!"

  10. Securitymoose

    Typical of leaving technical designs to children

    Yet another example of lack of the 'old grey auntie test' when the kids were designing this. It happens all the time in websites and even the bigger companies - have you tried using Firefox recently and then going to Amazon? For some reason, they are more interested in playing about with fancy stuff than actually testing usability.

    Ford should get my old grey auntie to test it out - she would have switched the engine off right away as soon as she tried to overtake a mobility scooter. Ford should also sack its console designers and send them back to kindergarten, where they presumably found them.

  11. Fihart

    Do the designers ever drive these things ?

    Visiting a Mercedes Benz dealer I found that their 1990s E Class models' folding armrest interfered with manual gear changer. And that the car was only available with a foot operated parking brake (what you'd normally call a handbrake). Try doing a hill start in a manual car with that !

    I was told that few Mercedes Benz buyers chose manual gearboxes -- and when I did (not an E class) I felt I could see why -- the clutch seemed heavy and initially I often stalled the car. Sold it after 12 months and since then my family have been riding around in a succession of BMW 5 and Jaguar XF models.

    Mind you, I also tried one of the 1990s big Jag saloons and could barely fit my size 11 feet into the footwell so much did the transmission intrude. Confirmed my suspicion that only small men drive such big cars.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Do the designers ever drive these things ?

      Jaguar XF, lovely car, especially the newer models (2012 upwards) have one myself..

    2. Vic

      Re: Do the designers ever drive these things ?

      And that the car was only available with a foot operated parking brake (what you'd normally call a handbrake). Try doing a hill start in a manual car with that !

      It's a skill you learn very quickly.

      I used to drive XMs. They have the same arrangement[1]. My first hill start was a proper WTF! moment, but after a little while, it became easy.

      Vic.

      [1] Having once lost a hydraulic pump drive belt on the M3, I was actually very glad of that pedal. Stopping a car that heavy on a hand-operated brake could have been interesting...

  12. Yugguy

    I don't roll back on hills

    Cos I know how to use a fecking CLUTCH.

    I don't need the stupid auto handbrake bollocks.

    But then that's how I feel about 90% of recent "innovations" Like VWs that light the foglight when you turn the wheel. UTTERLY POINTLESS.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I don't roll back on hills

      "But then that's how I feel about 90% of recent "innovations" Like VWs that light the foglight when you turn the wheel. UTTERLY POINTLESS."

      My Hyundai has cornering lights, but much neater solution than these bodge job designs. It has a sideways pointing light built into the main head lamp and it nicely lights up the kerb when cornering. Especially useful when reversing in a tight space.

      Actually when think about my little i10, I can't think of anything that is badly thought out (except the sound system which sounds dreadful, another £20 on speakers most likely would of sorted this)

  13. MrXavia

    Who would buy a car with such a terrible gear layout? Don't Americans test drive cars??

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Trollface

      Nope they just choose the biggest, ugliest motor they can find...A bonus is having it have a 600 BHP engine capable of a top speed of 100mph and doing 3mpg

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The next 'cool' thing will be a mechanical gear shift adapter to replace all the push buttons.

    I can remember when you could get floor shift kits to replace the column change floppy stick.

  15. Christoph

    "smart enough not to shut the engine off if the car's in motion"

    Hopefully with a way to over-ride that, for when the computer has locked the engine in top speed and won't respond to anything else.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >Hopefully with a way to over-ride that

      That was exactly my thought when I read the article.

      Of course turning off shouldn't bring the car to a screaching halt, but instead roll along even with the limited steering and braking that would be better than hitting the steering wheel at full speed without an airbag.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        If by 'limited steering', you mean '1/4 turn then locked in position'...

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Peter Simpson 1
      Happy

      "smart enough not to shut the engine off if the car's in motion"

      Hopefully with a way to over-ride that, for when the computer has locked the engine in top speed and won't respond to anything else.

      That's what the "EJECT" button's for.

  16. James O'Shea

    I see that Ford hasn't improved

    My father used to drive Fords, and nothing but Fords. Angilas, Cortinas, etc, right up until he bought an Australian Ford Falcon. That cured him.

    And this abomination gives entirely new meaning to Found On Road Dead, given the way that the airbags wouldn't deploy after hitting the wrong button.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ford

    Just goes to show that the Americans know nothing about building cars.

    Look at Jaguar Landrover, in the hands of Detroit focus groups they made more pups the entire cast of 101 Dalmatians.

    Tata comes along says that they have no idea about building luxury cars and just hands some money to the guys in in the British midlands, surprise surprise, the new models are brilliant, the motoring press love them, the sales go through the roof and JLR are now building cars plants around the world to keep up demand.

    1. Hud Dunlap
      Boffin

      Re: Ford

      As an owner of a 1996 Land Rover Discovery I can't agree. Land Rover had serious quality control problems. That is why they went under in the first place. Ford didn't really fix that. Apparently Tata has.

    2. killban1971

      Re: Ford

      I am currently sat in sunny Gaydon now...

    3. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Ford & JLR

      And they have made LR use a pretty crap engine in the Defender, removing a good one for a bloody Transit engine.

      BMW were not much better using chocolate GM gearboxes on the L322 Range Rovers, oh and stopping the project Storm 4s and 6s

      And yes I now really want a Discovery 4

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No clue..

    Ford have no clue about UX at all. Take the MY2013 Kuga in the UK. Has two LCD screens, noth controlled from separate controls. The main one - everyone who tries to set the sat nav of scroll the menus turns the big control dial - nope, that just does volume, all the time. You have to use the cursor keys to move around, 10x slower. Main one can only be controlled by the controls next to it, so you have to take your eyes off of the road - stupid when their are controls on the steering wheel, but that's only for the tiny little LCD display.

  19. Tezfair
    Facepalm

    Ford must have employed Julie Larson-Green on this one

    Take something functional and f*ck it up in one go

  20. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    Moved to top?

    So they seem to have moved the button from the bottom of the strip to the top of the strip -where it can't possibly be pushed by mistake.. Cheapskates. To be honest, this kind of design is so flawed that it's amazing it wasn't picked up on by everyone involved in designing the car. I guess it's a playstation generation of designers out there that don't mind having to restart from last auto-save.. hang on a minute..

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