back to article Snowden doc leak lists submarine'd cables tapped by spooks

Edward Snowden's latest document dump has confirmed the extensive list of submarine cables tapped by the NSA, GCHQ and others. A list of cables errily reminiscent to that The Register revealed in June has been made public by German broadsheet Süddeutsche Zeitung in a Google Drive dump here. As The Register's Duncan Campbell …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    HA! More fool them!

    ' “GERONTIC” (Vodafone) delivered up a huge amount of communications to GCHQ and NSA spooks.'

    All that money they wasted when all they had to do was ask and they would get the whole bloody lot, apparently.

    For once, and I do mean once, I agree with Jimmy Wales.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bullet

    Put a bullet in the little traitor.

    1. S4qFBxkFFg

      Re: Bullet

      Do you realise that he's probably given the worst ("worst" defined by the resultant damage to the USA) stuff to a trusted associate who is under instructions to release the whole lot if he disappears/dies under any kind of remotely suspicious circumstances?

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: Bullet

        " Do you realise that he's probably given the worst ("worst" defined by the resultant damage to the USA) stuff to a trusted associate who is under instructions to release the whole lot if he disappears/dies under any kind of remotely suspicious circumstances?"

        In that case, he's in even more danger from America's enemies

        1. LucreLout

          Re: Bullet

          In that case, he's in even more danger from America's enemies

          Chances are good he simply dumped everything he had into the groans lap and moved on with his life. There's no value in America killing him if it can't prevent further leaks, or in their enemies doing so if that won't cause more leaks.

          I think it incredibly unlikely any state wants to kill Snowden; He'd be at greater risk from a lone nutter. That being said, Ed probably shouldn't be planning any holidays out of Russia for the rest of his days, because I'd imagine the US would want to extradite him for trial.

    2. cmannett85

      Re: Bullet

      "Put a bullet in the little traitor."

      Which one?

    3. LucreLout

      Re: Bullet

      Put a bullet in the little traitor.

      While I don't agree with what Snowden did, or at least with how he did it, to suggest that he deserves to die for it is outrageous.

      Looking objectively at what has changed since his revelations, you'd have to say very little has truly changed. He confirmed that spy agencies were doing what I think most people had assumed they were doing anyway: it's why they're called spy agencies. It hasn't resulted in a cultural shift, and it hasn't resulted in any heads rolling. Very little seems to have changed.

      To affect that small level of change, I'm not sure Snowden needed to give away quite as much information as he did, though obviously, he had no way of knowing in advance what the impact of his leaks would actually be other than greater awareness. That, Ian, is most definitely not deserving of a bullet.

      1. Benjol

        Re: Bullet

        Sorry, I assumed spy agencies were for spying on foreigners, abroad, and maybe on baddies in general. Not hoovering up all data from everyone, everywhere.

        1. tom dial Silver badge

          Re: Bullet

          Assumptions like "spy agencies were for spying on foreigners ... not hoovering up all data from everyone" overlook a good deal of history. In any case, it would be interesting for those who make them to explain just how, technically, they might do that - how they might get access to foreign communications of intelligence interest without having equivalent access to a great deal, if not all, of the traffic And they should explain also, with some precision, how what they are doing now differs from what they were doing half a century and more ago when they hoovered up as much as they could the entire available radio spectrum, to the extent that they were able to do so, and tapped quite a few cables in addition to requiring communication providers to deliver copies of foreign cable traffic. It is nearly a century since British intelligence snatched the Zimmerman telegram proposing that Mexico go to war with the US.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bullet

        It hasn't resulted in a cultural shift, and it hasn't resulted in any heads rolling. Very little seems to have changed.

        I may have good news for you then: it HAS had impact. Until Snowden, the EU had to basically accept the US "comply or we'll just bury you in trade sanctions" blackmail approach to privacy that gave use the very unsafe Safe Harbor self-compliance wheeze. Now, the EU is in such a strong position on privacy that rather major companies are already feeling the pain where large EU based companies tell them that they have a problem buying their products because of EU laws. I have been in Brussels, and I have had those discussions with reps from US companies over an evening beer - they ARE getting very, very, VERY uncomfortable because Snowden's revelations provided the exact political leverage to prevent the usual US bullying. That is, for the time being.

        Where this is problematic is that Europe simply doesn't have any replacements for such US products, so it has to use them in whatever creative fashion that ensures there is still nominal compliance, and that's really what the current debate is about (you have to stand back a bit to see the bigger picture - it's not all about Google and Facebook).

        So it has had an impact - you just don't see it because every US company is gently tiptoeing around this rather large elephant and CEOs are very unwilling to publicly acknowledge they have problems in Europe that are far from trivial.

      3. Rol

        Re: Bullet

        @ LucreLout

        If anything, the lack of fallout shows our democracy is unfit for purpose.

        People across all media have raged on about the injustice yet far from trying to restore the public's faith we see ever more spurious headlines trying to suggest another tranche of pro-snooping legislation is required if we are ever going to save the free world from psychotic goat botherers.

        The truth is far more painful. Those in power want to stay in power and if it takes the false flag murder of its own citizens, well that's the price of maintaining the status quo.

        Each step towards the Big Brother state, is a step down a one way street. Legislation that seeks to protect us, will NEVER be abolished, but instead, new ever more fantastically managed events will usher in more menaces than an attic full of Beano comics could ever provide.

        Do we have a choice? Obviously not. No matter how radical prospective parliamentary parties appear, they will eventually fall into line or fall off a balcony trying.

    4. Psyx

      Re: Bullet

      "Put a bullet in the little traitor."

      For what exactly? Letting us plebs know just how routinely we are spied upon?

      Or do you genuinely have the lack of wit to believe that the nation's enemies did not consider that any communication infrastructure wasn't secure and should never be treated as such prior to Snowdow's leaks?

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bullet

      Put a bullet in the little traitor.

      Hmm. Looks like incitement to violence to me, which (AFAIK) could even see you arrested..

    6. Oninoshiko

      Re: Bullet

      "Put a bullet in the little traitor."

      You'll hear no complaint here, line the NSA against the wall!

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bullet

      Oh dear. Looks like a troll has taken up residence. Best ignore him/her/it, folks. Suspect a brain transplant would be the order of the day.

    8. elDog

      Re: Bullet

      OK - the paid hacks have started here. I've seen a lot of comment boards infiltrated by robots like this one. Their purpose is not to add to the conversation but rather to generate a flood of responses, such as my own (sorry) and to dilute the real content from the other contributors.

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Bullet

        OK - the paid hacks have started here. I've seen a lot of comment boards infiltrated by robots like this one.

        Based on Ian 45's fairly long and thoroughly uninspired posting history, I strongly suspect he's an avocational crank. If he's being paid for this stuff, his employers aren't getting their money's worth.

    9. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bullet

      You mean people like you, who would trade the civil liberties of the entire fucking world for a sack of magic beans?

      I agree, put a bullet in those traitors. Humanity is far better off without them.

  3. AbelSoul
    Black Helicopters

    payments – in one case more than £20 million – to C&W and Vodafone for the cable access

    It's costing us up to twenty MEEEEEELLLIIIOOONNN squids per company to spy on...... ourselves?

  4. This post has been deleted by its author

  5. Jamie Jones Silver badge

    What's with all the stupid codenames?

    ..... it's as if the place is being run by children, or James Bond wannabies.

    1. Psyx
      Facepalm

      Re: What's with all the stupid codenames?

      "What's with all the stupid codenames?"

      What?

      Seriously?

      You really want them to ditch the codenames and instead refer to 'Our cable tap to the UK' and 'Our cable tap on C&W'?

      I don't think you understand the point of code names, do you?

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: What's with all the stupid codenames?

        I said *stupid* codenames, not codenames in general.

        But seeing as you mention it, so what? It's not like they discuss it down the local pub.

        Thanks for playing though. Unfortunately you lose points for not being able to reply without sounding like a total dick.

        Have a nice day

  6. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge
    Facepalm

    All this surveillance, and they still want Facebook to notify them when they shut an account for terrorism.

    1. LucreLout

      All this surveillance, and they still want Facebook to notify them when they shut an account for terrorism.

      Well, yes. It avoids the whole Coventry situation if FB just declare it upfront.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      I think that report just goes to show that hoovering up mahoosive amounts of data is counter-productive. Most sensible people would suggest that more targetted data slurping would be the best solution but we all know what will happen. More money thrown at the problem in an attempt to analyse the ever growing mountain of data.

  7. elDog

    Follow the money?

    "SZ also notes that the new leak details payments – in one case more than £20 million – to C&W and Vodafone for the cable access."

    I've long wondered how the <ahem>companies</ahem> track these backdoor <quote>payments</quote>. And if these payments are reported to the authorities in the normal channels. And if they involve any banking operations that are outside of the rules that most of us play by (have to.)

    Some nice bloke in a nice suit manages to have a private discussion with another nice bloke that happens to work in a swell job. After a bit of socialization (drinks, dinner, nice "friends") perhaps the conversation comes around to something like the following:

    Q: Oh, by the way, Robert. My organization is hoping to be able to glean some insights from your telecommunications data. Would you mind if we tapped into your cables, your IT networks, your servers/desktops, etc.?

    R: Oh, that wouldn't be right, would it, George? After all we have the privacy interests of our customers listed somewhere near the top 20 items of our charter.

    Q: Quite right. And we would, of course, honor your commitments. Only anonanonamized content would be collected.

    R: But it seems like there would be some risk of loss of confidence. And my position-of-stature might be hurt.

    Q: Would, say, £20 million be enough to defray the costs of rebuilding stature? And just between you, me, the listening wall, etc., this defrayment is a non-traceable gold-backed deposit in a special bank that no one knows about. Don't worry about taxes and all that nasty stuff.

    R: (we know how that went.)

    1. Psyx

      Re: Follow the money?

      I can't help but wonder if the compensation makes the companies legally vulnerable to their clients.

      Handing over data because GCHQ come knocking could be justified in a Court, but accepting payment to breach DPA and sell data without permission would be illegal in any other case.

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