Terrorists?
"The cyber dust-up follows the Klan's distribution of flyers threatening "lethal" force against protestors in Ferguson, whom the white supremacist group characterised as terrorists, Raw Story reports."
Errrr...
Hactivist collective Anonymous has taken out the websites and Twitter accounts of white supremacist group the Ku Klux Klan following threats by a local chapter of the Klan against protestors in Ferguson, Missouri. Tensions in Ferguson are high in the run-up to a ruling on whether criminal charges will be brought against a …
"The cyber dust-up follows the Klan's distribution of flyers threatening "lethal" force against protestors in Ferguson, whom the white supremacist group characterised as terrorists, Raw Story reports."
Errrr...
Last time I checked, riots are violent acts. Make no mistake about it, threatening riots if a white man isn't indicted because he shot a black man who violently attacked him IS using terrorism to achieve a political end. So much as I hate the Klan, the description is appropriate.
No, it isn't uncommon for terrorist groups to hate each other. Just look at Ireland during the troubles. Two terrorist groups bombing and killing, but neither was inaccurate when they claimed the other were terrorists.
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My favourite film of all time and my favourite quote is:
" All right, we'll give some land to the n****** and the c*****, but we don't want the IRISH."
That makes me proud to be Irish that one.
My young daughters think it is the most racist film ever, they seem to miss the fact that it is not and is a wonderful film. The fight in the cafeteria at the end is sheer class and has me laughing as I type at the sheer brilliance of it all.
I remember the fact that they were defeated by Superman, yes the fictional comic book hero Superman. He defeated the KKK in the real world. Freakonomics gives a good account and I seem to remember QI mentioning it.
KKK - so 'powerful' a comic book was enough to decimate them.
"KKK - so 'powerful' a comic book was enough to decimate them."
Radio show actually. Stetson Kennedy had infiltrated the group, had information to pass on to the FBI, and ... couldn't get them interested (cue comments on FBI).
He did know writers on the Superman radio program though. Wikipedia has a brief summary on "The Clan of the Fiery Cross".
(Hmm, it's not on archive.org, although there is a fan rebroadcast there.)
...and not the medium of interpretive dance?
All media are forms of interpretive dance, as Richard Rorty (interpreting Donald Davidson) pointed out in Contingency, Irony, Solidarity. That's how signification works: people create models of meaning and update them based on their interactions with interlocutors and texts.
Aside from certain very specialized tautological forms (mathematical formalisms and the like), it's interpretive-dance turtles all the way down.
None of my relatives live with in 800 miles of ground zero. I doubt you will see any Guy Fawkes masks demonstrating in Ferguson, but I will bet dollars to some cops donuts that there will be some beds missing sheets in Missouri and vicinity.
That will be my coat, unfortunately it appears to be white...
that over 70% of the so called protesters are actually shills for the New American Black Panthers?
Any of you old enough to remember the Watts riots? NOW THATS domestic terrorism!
That the communist party organization of Chicago is paying to bring out of towners to stir up trouble? That they are distributing literature and training "protestors" to hurt cops?
Tell me how any of those people are any less wrong than the KKK?
Above and beyond that, the news media have used this story for increasing ratings, not to preach calm but to incite people to riot by only printing or reporting the black anti cop side of the story.
What about the evidence that Brown had his fingerprints & blood INSIDE the cop car? Seems to contradict the sole "eye witness". How about the video only days earlier of Brown robbing and punching a convenience store owner? Goes to "state of mind" in my understanding.
There is nothing good that can come out of this whole thing. No one is without blame either.
You, sir, are a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
> Tell me how any of those people are any less wrong than the KKK?
Well gee whiz, let me count the ways.
> .. blah blah evidence blah ...
Evidence you say? Excellent, lets have a trial and hear it argued out in court, rather than submit to predetermined verdict by anonymous internet nutjob.
"Evidence you say? Excellent, lets have a trial and hear it argued out in court, rather than submit to predetermined verdict by anonymous internet nutjob."
complains about statements from one internet nutjob because it counters his heroes which are a larger group of anonymous internet nutjobs.
sounds legit. Maybe they can sack up and hit the guys who made the violence threats first as well? Naww, that wouldn't be "cool".
You have your head up your ass. The evidence is already at the grand jury right now and they will likely not indict Wilson. If you did not always take the side of idiots, you might know better.
It is you and your wimpy attitude that fosters this idiocy. I don't care what color anyone is but when they act (Riot, Loot, Assualt) like this group they no longer have any "rights". Just because some criminal is black, morons like you think the law should overcompensate for their inability to act like normal law abiding human beings.
In Philadelphia, at least 3 teachers have been knocked out by students, those students are black and the teachers are black. This is an epidemic case of anti-authoritanism not racisim. Its quite apparent in Ferguson Missouri as well. Criminals should be caught and punished.
The fact that they are black had nothing to do with it, the fact Brown was a CRIMINAL does.
Follow the rules or get caught up in the legal system. Those are the choices available to you.
READ! Not MSNBC. Thats how you find out about the Panthers and their involvement. And before you or some other retard discredits my sources, any mainstream news source is deliberately not reporting this news because they are in the pocket of Obama and the rest of the liars.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/18920-new-black-panthers-arrive-in-ferguson-missouri
http://www.infowars.com/doj-communists-new-black-panthers-hijack-ferguson-protests/
http://www.theblaze.com/news/new-black-panthers/
http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/united-states/c/new-black-panther-party-NBPP.html
http://wtvr.com/2014/08/13/fbi-warns-of-new-black-panther-party-leader-inciting-violence-in-ferguson/
"And before you or some other retard discredits my sources, any mainstream news source is deliberately not reporting this news because they are in the pocket of Obama and the rest of the liars."
Lol.
So we have to read the crazynews because it's not in other news sources?
How about you provide a primary source, instead of crazynews?
1) You talked about evidence, got any evidence that the majority of the protestors are actually lnked to the Black Panthers? Tying people in Ferguson to the Watts riots is some pretty serious hyperbole considering it's been a fairly peaceful protest on the part of the protestors so far
2) Yes, an outside group trying to instigate violence between the protestors and police is wrong, although if your first point is correct it's somewhat pointless since most of the people they try and instigate will already be involved in another group rather than just protesting
3) That's a bit bizarre that his blood would be found in the car considering his only injuries were from gunshots and the autopsy showed they were done at range, not point blank as would be if he were trying to enter the vehicle. Also those on Brown's side of this claim the officer was trying to pull him into the car, so his fingerprints being there wouldn't be surprising. Besides, this "evidence" was leaked by an unnamed source, so isn't necessarily reliable
4) Not sure what the relevance of the shoplifting/robbery incident has (it's disputed which it classes as) since as you point out, it didn't happen on the same day. If "state of mind" refers to drugs though the autopsy didn't find anything except traces of thc, so he'd had weed at some point in the month before the shooting. Nothing else found, and that wouldn't increase aggression.
Even if you put all that aside though, is it proportional force for a police officer to shoot someone who is unarmed and, according to the autopsy, not within melee range a half dozen times, killing them?
"3) That's a bit bizarre that his blood would be found in the car considering his only injuries were from gunshots and the autopsy showed they were done at range, not point blank as would be if he were trying to enter the vehicle."
Not at all: If someone got blood on them, they could carry traces with them and depost said traces to other locations, such as the car. I think it's called secondary transferrance. This would normally be small amounts and would not have a particular pattern to it, hence it should be easily identified as being transferred rather than being from source.
CSI: Not always accurate but it's not always fiction :p
1) Did you even bother to read about the case before tearing my comments down?
See http://www.kmov.com/special-coverage-001/Reports-Ferguson-protests-turn-violent-270697451.html
http://www.kmov.com/special-coverage-001/Another-witness-to-Michael-Brown-Jr-shooting-speaks-to-News-4-271139501.html
Check #2
2) http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/18920-new-black-panthers-arrive-in-ferguson-missouri
http://www.infowars.com/doj-communists-new-black-panthers-hijack-ferguson-protests/
http://www.theblaze.com/news/new-black-panthers/
http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/united-states/c/new-black-panther-party-NBPP.html
http://wtvr.com/2014/08/13/fbi-warns-of-new-black-panther-party-leader-inciting-violence-in-ferguson/
Only some of the info I found online.
3) Thats common knowledge if you've been following the case instead of commenting on something you only see propoganda on.
4) Once a criminal always a criminal. Brown was a bully and a thief, not a hero.
When you as a cop are requesting a potential perp to come and show you ID and he tries to take your gun away from you, then you have the right to shoot. Even unarmed; Brown was way bigger than the cop Wilson is and any shooting would be justified on that basis.
So I see you only read the black panther sites for your news.
Regarding point 1:
http://www.aol.com/article/2014/11/18/ferguson-business-owners-boarding-up-ahead-of-michael-brown-grand-jury-decision/20995604/
http://news.yahoo.com/riots-ferguson-businesses-long-normal-152359442.html
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/08/20/the-other-victims-in-ferguson/
Regarding point 3:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/report-autopsy-suggests-michael-brown-reached-ferguson-officers-gun-n231391
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguson-missouri-autopsy-shows-michael-brown-had-close-range-wound-to-his-hand-newspaper-reports/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/22/report-autopsy-analysis-shows-michael-brown-may-have-gone-for-darren-wilsons-gun/
Of particular note from the Post piece:
Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco who reviewed the autopsy for the Post-Dispatch, told the paper that one of the officer’s shots hit Brown’s forearm and traveled from the back of the arm to the inner arm, which means Brown’s palms could not have been facing Wilson, as some witnesses have said. That trajectory shows Brown probably was not taking a standard surrender position with arms above the shoulders and palms out when he was shot outside the officer’s car, she said.
and
Melinek also told the newspaper another bullet struck Brown at close range — and may at that point have been reaching for Wilson’s weapon. The autopsy found material “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm” in a wound on Brown’s thumb. Melinek said this “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.”
Regarding point 4, the shoplifting was NOT a day earlier, it was immediately before the shooting:
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-say-michael-brown-fit-description-strong-arm-robbery-suspect/
From the second article:
Ferguson, Mo., Police Chief Thomas Jackson said the robbery took place just before noon on Saturday at a convenience store roughly 10 minutes before a police officer identified as Darren Wilson fired the bullet that killed Michael Brown. Police say that the shot was fired after a struggle touched off by Wilson's confronting Brown. Jackson said Wilson is a six-year veteran with no disciplinary action on his record.
Now whatever motive the police chief might have to protect his officers, telling an outright lie is going to get him a heap load of trouble in lawsuits. So he's not going to do it when he's already sitting on a powder keg.
As to your last absolutely ridiculous question, the answer is Yes. Because the thug in question had already assaulted, attempted to steal his gun, and seriously injured the officer. Furthermore he was not walking away from him or surrendering. He was instead charging him with obvious intent to inflict further bodily injury.
@AC
I guess any member of a group that drags a black man to his death behind their pick-up truck isn't a terrorist. Happened in Texas I think. I was alive during the 68 Democratic convention when Hippies terrorized/exercised their political right to rally in Chicago, but got their heads busted by the cops anyway. A very close friend's father was a Chicago cop in those riots, and I know both sides of the argument. I've seen all good people riot after their fucking sports team wins a championship regardless of the city or it's economical status.. Please take a farther out(right or left) viewpoint please it's hard to tell where you're coming from.
I agree completely that this will not turn out well, and said it in my first post about Ferguson(and was downvoted for saying so), but this is only a symptom of what poor american cities are going through.
"that over 70% of the so called protesters are actually shills for the New American Black Panthers?"
No, we did not. You can of course provide some kind of citation from a reliable source and evidence to back that up, right? Because otherwise you're just spouting propaganda.
"Any of you old enough to remember the Watts riots? NOW THATS domestic terrorism!"
No, that was a riot. One in their own community. You might want to look up the word 'terrorist' in the dictionary.
"That the communist party organization of Chicago is paying to bring out of towners to stir up"
A political organisation busing in protesters? Say it ain't so!
That's legitimate protest and happens everywhere. It's just this time the people doing it are people that you don't like. Suck it up: Rights to gather apply to both sides.
"they are distributing literature"
DISTRIBUTING LITERATURE???
Holy crap. Arrest them all!
I'll bet it's something horrific like Jayne Eyre. They deserve locking up.
" and training "protestors" to hurt cops?"
Citation?
"Tell me how any of those people are any less wrong than the KKK?"
It doesn't matter if they're equally criminal really, does it: Two wrongs do not a right make.
Do you realize you're reaching back almost 50 years to evoke horrors?
Also, when it happened, the Ferguson PD decided to respond heavy. When you dress cops in full riot gear and balaclavas to hide their faces, tear gas at the ready, don't even act surprised if a riot occurs.
If you think about it, does it make sense that Brown tried reaching over the officer's body in an SUV to get to his gun? For our English friends, imagine reaching in a car to get a gun from a left-handed person. You have to stick yourself halfway in the car to get at it.
Finally, no matter what happened in the Brown shooting, the Ferguson PD handled the situation is about the worst way possible. They leaked information trying to sway opinion. They tried to clamp down on the outcome. The reports of what happened were late in coming. Most importantly, why didn't they have video cameras in the cars like the majority of police do? How about a hot mike? That stuff helps to protect your officers and the public.
St. Louis is a growing city, and Ferguson is an island of poverty in it. Amazing some of the responses I've heard. A PD was disbanded because of problems. Treat them like savages, and then everybody points "see, they are savages" when things finally blow up. I guess it's time for another lynching....
...that Brown would be reaching in the vehicle window trying to grab the gun on the other side of the person in the driver's seat (and what's really strange is that it's apparently his right hand that got shot), but then neither does it make sense that Wilson would be trying to drag all 6'4" 292 lbs of him into the vehicle through the driver's window.
So I'm going to wait on the release of all the evidence before trying to reach any conclusions.
Sherlock, because after eliminating the impossible you have to be left with only one improbable or you haven't really solved it.
No, that is about telling uncaring millenials that never knew the previous history about the Watts riots and were fed bullshit by reverse racist media. Now we have the NEW Black Panthers. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
Obama and Holder are historically sympathizers/participants with that whole 60's movement. Read some of their writings and you'll concurr. Holder is the biggest reverse racist and anti-constitutionalist there is.
Did you notice that the media only used black anchors and reporters in order to evoke a particular response?
As for the shooting, there are several stories; but the grand jury that is about to hand down a decision will have the last word. Again, second guessing is immaterial.
This story contradicts most others but follows most of the cops story. http://www.kmov.com/special-coverage-001/Another-witness-to-Michael-Brown-Jr-shooting-speaks-to-News-4-271139501.html
The Ferguson PD only dealt with the problem using the tools they had. Your second guessing is immaterial. Only a very few police departments have video cameras on dashes let alone personal video. Not going to help in this case. Let's not talk of leaks, delays and clamping down because the whole liberal media has Wilson already convicted before they case even came to Grand Jury.
THAT is PREJUDICE!
Is it any wonder that high school dropouts don't meet the induction requirements for the police department. That these dropouts are black is just too bad. If you have a criminal record you can't be a cop.
Don't be a criminal and you don't have a record. You can be poor and black and still not join a gang or be a criminal. You can even pass high school if you try. Then you could be part of the solution, instead of the thug life problem.
The fact remains that Brown was a suspect and the cop had the right to see his ID. Brown grabbed or tried to grab Wilsons gun. End of case.
Obama and Holder have what exactly to do with this?
The robbery wasn't known by Wilson, but released by the Ferguson PD for what purpose? That takes away Brown being a suspect. Reports are he was walking in the middle of the street.
Wilson did not file a police report immediate after the incident (advised by his union rep). Narratives weren't pursued.
I didn't notice, I read most of my news, from different sources. I did look into the claims about Wilson getting his orbital bone broken (repeated by many of the sources you name, btw).
PD's that don't have the cameras are in the minority, I hate to tell you.
Your take seems to be the officer was justified because there's a liberal conspiracy? Do you know a grand jury doesn't determine guilt or innocence, just merely if there is enough evidence to pursue charges? There's not a lot of will do pursue charges in Ferguson... elsewhere, yes, but without the evidence.
I don't know how many people I've talked to about this taking the attitude pretty much that Brown was acting above the law, and the officer didn't have a choice, because he fired his gun. Police are above suspicion.
Police are human, are they not? Police definitely are not above the law. What I see here is lack of evidence of a struggle (injuries on the officer, or injuries on the decadent were not shown on autopsy). Did he pull up to the suspect too close, leaving himself in a very bad spot in case there was a confrontation. Why didn't he use the car to get out of immediate danger? Did he have a taser,, or was deadly force his only choice?
If deadly force was his only choice, that's a failure of the PD to me. If they recommend their cops to pull up to suspicious people close enough to get attacked, that's a failure. It's prejudice to think they don't need alternatives because of the neighborhood they're patrolling in.
If you can't get a job, can't get welfare, can't go out of your house unbeaten unless you join a gang, and the police don't think you're worth the time, what do you think happens? Thug life... It's a black thing, just ask Meyer Lansky, Al Capone, or Lucky Lucciano.
Everything. They contacted the front groups that showed up in Ferguson to start the riots. The hope was that would let them call in the FBI to restore order and be the heroes of the hour. Just in time to drive up Democrat voter numbers before the election. You know, the one where they just got jacked up but won't admit to it.
You can't have an unbiased Grand Jury inquiry when everyone sitting on it knows there will be a riot if by following the facts they decline to allow charges to be filed.
I've read all the stories too. The officer in question didn't realize the thugs prancing in the middle of the street were whacked out on drugs and had just committed a strong arm robbery. He thought it was just a couple of punks being obnoxious. For that sort of thing you usually pull up, yell at the punks, and they move to the sidewalk where they're supposed to be. It's what they did one night when I was walking back to the house with a very drunk friend who was jumping up and slapping street signs to make loud noises in the alley. But since he had a couple of perps who thought they were being pulled over for strong armed robbery, they charged him and tried to get his gun while he was in the car. He managed to keep the gun and as they started to run away called for them to stop and prepared to shoot. Instead they turned around and shot him. So losing vision because of the injuries he sustained, he wound up firing six shots, with the close range ones finally killing the thug.
I'm tired of people whining that their thug kids were good people who'd never do that sort of thing. I knew those kinds of thug kids and their parents growing up. Fortunately for me, they were all white, so the race card couldn't be played an society didn't make excuses for them.
"Obama and Holder are historically sympathizers/participants with that whole 60's movement."
Equality, peace, free love and mind expanding drugs.
Cool.
I'd vote for them, based on that.
"The Ferguson PD only dealt with the problem using the tools they had. "
Yes: we noticed. Fully automatic weapons, balaclavas and surplus military kit.
Doesn't matter if it makes sense to you, it's what the corner's report proves happened.
The cops "reports of what happened were late in coming" because unlike you and the rest of the rioters in Ferguson, they were trying to wait for the facts to come in. So in the face of an intensive campaign of lies by people attempting to incite a race riot, they resorted to leaking the bits they knew.
Whenever I read something about a celebrity's Twitter account being "hacked", I have to wonder what actually happened. Twitter is just a password-protected web service, so are the people targeting a particular person and installing keyloggers, or are the super-secret passwords for these accounts not so super-secret?
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the largest corporate Twitter accounts have a password similar to "123Passw0rd" to make it easier for the marketing interns to update the feed.
Usually they'll try and abuse the 'reset my password' feature, especially those with 'security questions' that people will fill in with information that is very easy to look up (like what happened to Palin in the 2008 elections). Then there are a lot of attacks using dictionary attacks (usually an abridged version is used first before trying to reset the password, just in case the account holder is a class-A moron). Although password reuse attacks are on the rise, especially with all the recent major breaches.
I never knowingly met a Black Panther back in the day but have met one or two KKK members in the USAF at bases in the UK. I was at one base as a guest in the '70s having a beer in the on base 'Rod and Gun Club' two black servicemen walked in and went up to the bar, the whole place fell silent and everyone stared at them until they left, it made me ashamed to be white and ashamed to be there.
These were people who were members of the same service willing to put their lives on the line for their country just the same as the other people in the bar.
" Black Power is giving power to people who have not had power to determine their destiny."
Huey Newton co founder of the original Black Panthers
It was true then and looks as though it may still be true today.
I've worked with a couple of Klansmen, if the subject of race would never come up, nice guys, salt of the earth, but mention any other race, and the Dr. Jekyll - Mr Hyde principle would apply. I guess I am fortunate, they were co-workers on a major project, and once it was over, I never saw them again.
I've never met an original Black Panther as far as I know. By the time I was old enough to care the originals had pretty much quit advertising, and from what I understand they weren't at all bad. They were (so I've been told) basically a civil rights group.
I have, however, had the misfortune of meeting both New Black Panthers* and Klansmen. I'd not willingly spend any time in the company of either. I have no tolerance for the rather potent strain of stupidity that is racism.
*The original Black Panthers and the New Black Panthers, for those who don't know, are completely unrelated organizations. The NBP just usurped the name.
I've never met an original Black Panther as far as I know. But there is one who is the current Congressman from the 1st district in Illinois...the Hon. Bobby Rush.
Which, I'm sure, just burns in the hole in the craw of any Grand Dragon that thinks about it (assuming, of course, that a Grand Dragon can think).
I have witnessed racism from both blacks and whites but racism from white Americans is so systemic and institutionalised that it seems to be a national sport. It is not just casual ignorant racism but such deliberate hateful stuff that it would not be out of place at a Third Reich rally. I am surprised America's blacks have put up with it for so long. It looks like the fuse is finally burnt.
"KKK has been a disgrace to rational human beings of lighter complexions for 150 years."
For some time they were an even bigger disgrace to rational human beings of darker complexions. ;-)
In case he exists, this little guy in the icon is probably waiting for them with a big smile.
Fuck'em all with a cactus, mate!.
Is anyone noticing the similarities between Anon and the Klan?
They hide behind masks (white ones, at that), they promote vigilantism, they engage in criminal behavior under aegis of vigilantism, they have an extremist worldview and threaten any who oppose it, they act on those threats and sometimes act without first threatening on the presumption that the warning is ubiquitous and obvious...
The Klan is more given to actual violence. That's about the only functional difference.
If you stick with just the "they have an extremist worldview and threaten any who oppose it, they act on those threats and sometimes act without first threatening on the presumption that the warning is ubiquitous and obvious..." then it equally applies to most security and intelligence services. I know it sounds exactly like GCHQ to me :)
They don't wear masks though, they are instead covered by the Official Secrets Act.
Not that I'm upset the KKK got taken down, but aren't the protesters themselves terrorists just as much as the KKK? They threaten violence if the cop isn't indicted. How is that NOT terror?
Be wary of thinking too hard on this subject, lest you suddenly realise that many "just" and "righteous" violent acts are in fact also terrorism. Terrorists who are on the "right" side are usually referred to as "freedom fighters", but they are also terrorists.
For instance, civil wars are practically the definition of violence in order to enact political change, and thus any side participating in a civil war is (in my opinion) by definition a terrorist organisation. I am of course including in this both the Confederacy and the Union, as well as the Cavaliers and the Roundheads (in the English Civil War), alongside all other civil war factions worldwide throughout history.
It is an unpleasant thought, now that we have tried so hard to equate "terrorist" with "evil", but IMO it is an inescapable conclusion. In some conflicts, the terrorists will always win, because all sides are terrorists. ^^;
I dont support the KKK but see the " PC " bs we most people now a days. Blacks hate it when white people attack their way of living or beliefs but its Ok if its the other way around.
I smell hypocrisy up the ass on this one.
And no one can say that black people haven't gotten in groups masked up and attacked white people for no reason other than their white.