US Marshals commit DIRTBOX INTRUSION on Americans, says report US marshals have reportedly fitted mini mobile phone cells, nicknamed dirtboxes, inside aircraft so that they can locate mobes from the sky. Or, in other words, another one of Uncle Sam's agencies has found another way to secretly track citizens. The g-men, who work for the courts and track down fugitives, have a fleet of …
Sorry wait, I dont see why you would disprove of this?
Maybe I am missing something here, Somebody is naughty, they send a plane up to look for their phone?
We could complain about ANPR while were at it too in that case.
I understand there is a massive backlash regarding state surveillance, but from what i read they are just searching for specific phones, this isn't some nationwide surveillance on tap to whatever agency wants to peek at it.
".....For now / That we know of (delete according to naivety)...." Sorry, but could you please add an option for those not wearing tinfoil hats?
If the U.S. Marshals Service are looking for you then you are already a convicted criminal and have escaped custody, are a bail-jumper, or are an immediate physical threat to a member of the judiciary or other employee of the courts. The Marshals have a very narrow remit under which they act and general surveillance is not included - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marshals_Service.
@ Lionel Baden
If they were looking for "someone's" phone they could do that through a warrant served the the mobile telephone carriers. They are looking at large numbers of people, I guess so they can see what numerous subjects of investigation/criminals on parole/etc. are doing as a group. So if you are on parole your phone kind of becomes an electronic bracelet to see if you are in a city outside your parole area.
The protocols for screening out the thousands and thousands of innocent civilians are poorly defined at best. As are the protocols for defining who the "persons of interest" should be. Are they looking for federal witnesses, to see where they are traveling? I can see why theoretically they might have an interest if a witness is in Cleveland when they need to find him for a deposition, but witnesses shouldn't be tracked. Are they looking for people who are "unnamed co-conspirators"? These are people who the feds think might be involved in a crime, but there isn't enough evidence to put them in court. But does that mean they deserve to have their locations tracked? Are they tracking former criminals/people who left the sensitive positions in the federal government/people who are in sensitive positions in the federal government? We don't really know, nor has there been any debate over under what circumstances we should track people.
Likewise non-Americans moving around in America. How many of those people are being tracked by this, and why? Is that number zero? Is it some whole number followed by lots of zeroes? We just don't know.
This looks very much like a fishing expedition, and I am not in favor of those.
The problem is that they get all of the phones in the area, maybe 4 or 5 square miles and capture not only "metadata" but all of the conversations. Also, there is no accounting for what they will use any stray data that they find.
They should be required to get a wiretap court order and be prohibited from intercepting or recording data/traffic from any other devices in the area.
"Well, my respect for the Marshal's Service just dropped several notches."
Well, mine actually went up. I rather dislike fugitives, especially armed ones. Especially armed ones that seek to force themselves into my home and force me to expend ammunition to halt such harmful activities.
So, to be blunt, I'm glad the Marshal's Service is saving me ammunition and door fixtures.
Blithering idiot!
Of course, I'm one that the government knows perfectly well where I am for 8 hours per day and is reasonably certain where I am the rest of the time. But then, I work in a government security operations center keeping their networks secure.
Earlier in my career, I literally had government agents follow me to ascertain who my associations were, beyond what was self-reported.
So, sod off, you paranoid delusional person, go seek professional mental health care guidance on finding balance between caution and paranoia.
For those outside of the US, please excuse my tirade against my countryman, however you should be made aware of one fact.
The United States of America has no real mental health care system. What previously existed was dismantled due to a handful of cases of abuse, with the promise of community based health care.
What that actually meant was mental patients were literally ejected from the closing mental hospitals, to become homeless. The community based mental heath care system was and remains underfunded to the point of being an embarrassment it it were in such a state in Somalia.
As for the ammunition bit, well, firearms *are* quite commonplace in the US. Most sane people only move about with them to and from the range or to hunt, when the game is in season. My firearms are in safes, with one special safe reserved in case of the not so vanishingly rare occurrence that someone breaks in and is armed. If they're unarmed and run away, oh well, I'll have to replace a window. If they're unarmed and remain, they'll get to meet the local police force, who will be advised that the suspect is peaceful.
I had quite enough of violence in the military and really don't want to see things military at home.
It's a pity that they have to slurp the entire area and then mark which ones are of interest. One would think they could be more selective and slurp the ones of interest instead of everyone in the area. The key question in my mind is are they hanging onto the "not of interest" lot or is that not stored for later use?
The other question is.. which 5 cities are being surveyed and how soon before the rest of the country is buzzed by these guys?
Legal.. I'm guessing it's a gray area but since they're looking for specific individuals, I would assume or at least hope there's a warrant involved. Still... very troublesome and since it's Boeing who makes the boxes I wonder if they have customers in other countries.
If they had a warrant they could get the info from the phone company.
True. Also true that in USA due to the E911 legislation a phone can be triangulated on request by the mobile company down to 10s of meters or less (much better than most countries).
However, that services is not designed for pursuit. It presumes the target is not mobile and cannot be queried at high frequency so it is of little use if you are trying to catch someone, especially someone in a vehicle moving at 50mph in an urban environment (locating a mobile in hillbilly country is actually easier than doing so in down town New York). There is also a fairly limited rate at which the network can execute such queries especially in busy hours as they involve paging for that mobile repeatedly across a paging area.
So both the warrant and the fake cell triangulation using a MIM have their uses.
Now making a secret out of using fake cells is frankly stupid (it is a well known tech), but that is another matter. It just comes with the territory.
"If they had a warrant they could get the info from the phone company. So I'm guessing no, they are fishing."
In a way, yes. In the comparison of going to the fish market for your fish vs actually actively going after fish with a hook.
Warrants are served, the data is *not* in realtime. That is something I learned in the military.
If the guy is at the 711 yesterday at 11:23:43, whatinhell good is that today at 22:00:00?
Now, can it be abused? Absolutely. That is why we have a court system, a Congress and a POTUS. Each is checks and balances against the other two branches of government.
That all said, if the states get hold of this technology, the entire Constitution will become a regional clusterfuck that will take ages to untangle.
For those not from the US, our central government is relatively weak, with civil rights and federal rights defined in the Constitution. Anything not covered there devolves to the states, if not claimed by the state, devolves to the county, then to the town/city/township, then to the citizen.
Much isn't codified and is mixed US Constitution, some state Constitution and a *lot* of UK common law of 1776.
A rather bizarre thing occurs, as many states have not outlawed the judicial duel, such is legally possible in quite a few states. Don't see it happening, but it is technically possible.
Think of traveling in the US as a citizen as traveling in Europe with a Europass, but without having to present it at a border (travel papers are prohibited in the US Constitution).
For fun, do read our Constitution. It's an easy read, it's relatively short and it's plainspoken. Then, research history of the UK in 1776 and remember the history and some abominations that occurred in UK history over religion and personal protection from harm from another and assorted other items.
Or read Justice Scalia's opinion in Washington, D.C. vs Heller for the history.
Justice Stevens attempted to engage upon historical revisionism, only the immediate victor may revise history, not the progeny. ;)
Personally, I'd put quite a few firearms under the National Firearms Act (do look that up).
Well, it's nearing 05:00 local time, I need to get some sleep. I'm midshift.
Technically, they don't "slurp" at all - instead they advertise that they are a cell for carrier X (perhaps also Y and Z), and phones will, if the signal is stronger than the one they're currently latched to, ask "can I have a go?", and part of that request will contain identifiers (including both IMSI and IMEI, under certain conditions which I assume they are meeting)
"micro cells" are available for sale to the public. Many companies that have large buildings with poor cell coverage install such devices. People that have homes in the fringe coverage area also can use such devices. If your home is totally out of range, then these devices will transmit data over an internet connection to the rest of the phone network.
I know people that use them.
"It's a pity that they have to slurp the entire area and then mark which ones are of interest."
What happens is, the phone pretends to be a tower. Hence, it reads *all* phone ID's in range. Hence, it slurps all and discards that which is not of interest.
Before you comment, do learn how the technology works. To do otherwise actually does disrupt service.
Until your phone imei is often coincidently found in these fishing expeditions & you'll suddenly find you're self under increased scrutiny from the security services for no good reason other than some bad guys happen to be doing business in your locality.
Guilty by unknown association.
well that's just common sense tbh, If a innocent bystander is found @ 3 separate bank robberies on cctv, it would be stupid of police to ignore that and not investigate.
Now to Charge/Arrest/Imprison somebody for being in the area on separate occasions that would be a different matter altogether and unacceptable, but investigate is perfectly fine, and I would prefer that they would be switched on enough to do so.
"Until your phone imei is often coincidently found in these fishing expeditions & you'll suddenly find you're self under increased scrutiny from the security services for no good reason other than some bad guys happen to be doing business in your locality."
Here in the information world, of interest means a valid bit of data. Not of interest is bit bucket.
Now, if the bit bucket was examined and found to hold correlations of significance for a known felon who was dangerous, I'd most certainly and law enforcement would most certainly be interested.
That said, the fruit of the poisoned tree comes into play and a parallel investigation begins. One that uses none of the tainted information at all. If that plays true, it's rather likely that further criminal matters are present and one requires a court of law to examine the facts.
That *is* the case law and text of the US Constitution.
Now, as one who actually reviewed his own personal morale call home text file, dutifully recorded by an unnamed agency, after a certain soldier tried to kill his peers for religious reasons, I can say, I don't have that great a deal of problem with that. That isn't blind faith, that is due to the checks and balances in the US government.
They may fuck up on occasion, but usually they do work.
"Until your phone imei is often coincidently found in these fishing expeditions & you'll suddenly find you're self under increased scrutiny from the security services for no good reason other than some bad guys happen to be doing business in your locality."
Im really sorry, but if you live in a dodgy neighborhood, your going to get stopped and questioned if your around the scene of crimes.
e.g. If I walk past a drug dealer who is just getting busted then police would question and search me, as they should !!!! Nobody in their right mind would question this procedure?!?!
I really dont get why there is such a massive problem with this ? just because its a phone ?
If this is simply tracking where a mobile is located based on its IMEI is that really any different to tracking a car based on its numberplate?
Correct me if I am missing something, (I would really like to know), but without a back haul a flying base station is not building any connections, so cannot intercept messages or be able to log any call data.
Tracking is only a very small part of the issue. Every bit of information that is transmitted by the phone is recorded and reviewed, not only the phones that they have some reason to monitor, but all of the phones in a several mile area. This is like putting the "government" in between you and your family or lawyer. The technology is extremely powerful when abused.
The basic question is do we have the expectation of privacy for any form of communication at this point in time? I wonder if the cure for crime prevention is not worse than the problem.
"Correct me if I am missing something, (I would really like to know), but without a back haul a flying base station is not building any connections, so cannot intercept messages or be able to log any call data."
No, but it's logging location data for every phone within range. That's the point.
'".....it's logging location data for every phone within range....." And where in the article does it say it is logging every phone? Oh, it doesn't.'
Actually, it doesn't say what you think.
It's logged as interesting or not interesting.
Much of the time, not interesting goes into the bit bucket, however that is not always the case.
That said, I really don't have problems with it. As in, if I were caught up in the unintentional dragnet, I know quite well my activities would clear me.
The simple reality for many would be, they'd accidentally be given an examination that they were unaware of that would qualify them for a security clearance.
"if I were caught up in the unintentional dragnet, I know quite well my activities would clear me." - maybe and maybe not. Your absolutely legal and morally sound activities may be considered against the current administration and therefor get you labeled as a threat. Just as numerous vets are denied rights based on their service in the military. Any administration that would misrepresent a major healthcare law would not stop at doing other underhanded things.
Once upon a time, in a land far far away, the theory was that all the equipment on the mobile phone networks used public key encryption for authentication. As a result, spoof radio masts, whether operated by the police or anyone else, could not be inserted into the networks. If they can be, then someone's letting them in through the back door.
No, as the NSA has said, they've been let in through the front door, in this case by the equipment manufacturers. Sort of like gaining access to a gated area by hiring someone with the keys. Furthermore, I may be wrong, but authentication may not take place until the network connection has been established. Otherwise, you end up with what I call the Spike Milligan problem (he is quoted in a joke of, "Open the crate using the crowbar you will find inside.").
Once upon a time, people actually comprehended networking that they used.
OK, if you plug into a wired network with your PC, is your MAC obfuscated? Nope.
Your mobile uses an IEMI. that can not be obfuscated.
Welcome to the real world.
Beyond that, things get *really* complicated, to to international agreements.
For those in the US, that means ratified treaties, which the Constitution proclaims are the law of the land, only second to the Constitution itself.
The consequence will be obvious enough.
People are no longer willing to stand for this kind of thing.
Companies are sensitive to that mood, and are responding - hence encryption by Google, MS etc.
The cellphone companies will respond by introducing some level of authentication, to ensure that phones will ONLY communicate with genuine base stations. They're majorly pissed about this; it makes them look bad and insecure - they have no incentive to play ball with government here.
This will be down to the phone manufacturer's not the phone companies I would of thought.
And this would end up a phone companies wet dream, if it came true.
Support Center: No sorry Sir, you cannot change to X phone company with your current phone. Its security is locked to our phone network for your safety in mind. And no they wont accept phones with custom firmware, you must run official software from us only, yes i know we track everything and spam you with adverts you love, but its in your best interest.
"Companies are sensitive to that mood, and are responding - hence encryption by Google, MS etc."
Says one who is the village idiot on protocols of cellular nature.
the IMEI is key to communicating on an initial basis on a cellular network. That is an international standard.
Fuck with that and your phone will work only within the US. Foreign phones won't work in the US.
Real world meets the road.
Learn how shit works before you make an ass of yourself.
I'm pretty sure just flying above US soil does not make you suddenly immune to all laws, otherwise presumably you could get away with murder provided you jumped at the same time as shooting your victim.
More seriously, how high up does a countries law cease to be? If you're in orbit you're outside of earthly jurisdictions, what about aircraft?
"More seriously, how high up does a countries law cease to be? If you're in orbit you're outside of earthly jurisdictions, what about aircraft?"
Well, for a few ratified treaties, it's 90 miles for specialized things like space stations, GPS, etc.
For other ratified treaties, it's middle orbit, between geosynchronous orbit and low earth orbit.
For other ratified treaties, it's geosynchronous orbit.
For still other ratified treaties, it's "parking orbit", when a spacecraft is dying/dead.
Then, there is the *entire* space treaty that makes everything in space common to humanity, not a nation.
Meanwhile, you ignored the shit out of national airspace, which is also a ratified treaty.
An hence, is guided by legislated and case law, which means that what is in the air is in the air for all, you, me, the US government.
Do you want to deprive us all of air? ;)
More seriously, do look up US law, international treaties (they're far from difficult to find), international space "law" (there is no international law, only ratified treaties that have the force of law (which the US Constitution clearly states is so, second only to the Constitution itself (so, for the paranoid gun nut, an arms treaty cannot prohibit him his gun)). The entirety of it is in common English, with much of it being American English (as many US citizens can barely comprehend *real* English (I'm conversant, barely)).
After years of reprogramming cell handsets IMEI numbers with special cables hooked up to laptops (unlawful in the UK), the new (certain models) are a whiz to reprogram the IMEI 'on the run' using an App and a power adapter. Maybe you can still get it done at weekend markets - I had my first change decades ago at the High Wycombe Market.
My changing the IMEI had nothing to do with crime, just privacy. I don't use my smartphone in a standard mode - it is a permanent MESH node used to access WiFi and the InterNet by other nodes.
Remember, if you use roaming out of your carriers area, you must change the SIM and the IMEI concurrently BEFORE turning it on, make a call, so the IMEI is registered with the SIM issuer system.
Many WiFi and Bluetooth Apps scrape handset info, for who knows what.
Of course, using the same IMEI on different cells and different networks would sort of spoil the Plod and Marshals little spy escapades.
"My changing the IMEI had nothing to do with crime, just privacy."
I call bullshit.
Fuck with the IMEI, the cellular network rejects your attempts to join it, unless you forge it.
Of course, IMEI forgery was part and parcel of cellular telephone theft.
I am far from accusing you, only bringing an interesting and annoying legal fact to the forefront to remind all why IMEI is supposed to be not forged.
There are many, many legal reasons to do so.
Maybe they figure out how the "dirtbox" identifies itself and changed their code so it ignores them and doesn't register so they stop showing up. Of course, the feds could change the ID it uses to work around that, so better yet they use MIMO to determine the direction the antenna is, and if it is "up" and moving then it is ignored!
Or maybe use a randomized IMEI on first contact until it can be determined the base station is "real" (i.e. you can actually get service through it) similar to how iOS now scans for access points using a randomized MAC to avoid tracking. Is there a range of generic IMEIs that could be used for this purpose? They might try to defeat this by legal means, but the government would have a hard time pushing that through now that more and more of their spying on citizens is being made public the last couple years.
I'd love to see the FBI howling about that like they did about Apple and Google encrypting devices by default. If the government makes themselves my adversary, I fully support companies treating them as such and doing what they can to keep me safe from them!
When are we going to start waking up and realizing that the s**t that's going down in the US right now is a page straight out of the Nazi playbook. How many of those pages are we going to tolerate before we shut them down for good? Is it going to take an Auschwitz level event on American soil before We the People bust their chops?
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