back to article FYI: OS X Yosemite's Spotlight tells Apple EVERYTHING you're looking for

There has been growing disquiet over Apple's desktop search app Spotlight, which sends queries for things back to the company's servers to process. Spotlight phones home in OS X Yosemite, version 10.10, and it is enabled by default: it can be switched off, but with Apple insisting that it now takes people's privacy seriously, …

  1. Buzzword

    Same as iOS 8

    iOS 8's Spotlight does the same thing, sending search queries to Bing. It also shares your geographical location (not sure if with Apple or with Bing). Both features can be disabled via the Settings, so it's not exactly secret.

    1. SuccessCase

      Re: Same as iOS 8

      Stupid story. You've got to be a bit bloody thick if you think it's your own computer that has indexed the web and returned search results. And yes you can just turn it off if you want to.

      1. Oninoshiko
        Facepalm

        Re: Same as iOS 8

        You'd have to be bloody thick if you think spotlight was for searching the web.

        It's for searching you local harddrive.

        1. Lallabalalla

          Re: Same as iOS 8

          "It's for searching you local harddrive."

          Of course it is. Or was - now it's for both, and it saves me the trouble of opening a browser and searching Google as well as my local drive. Though it returns Bing results - which IIRC also returns Google results, or used to (?) so I may have to google as well, anyway - but, I'm pleased it does this.

          I can understand why the tin-hat brigade, crims, terrorists and kiddie-pornsters would object. Personally I couldn't give a stuff.

          Downvote me all you like - I even prefer targeted adverts, because I'd rather see ads for things I'm interested in than stannah stairlifts, trouser presses and goldfish tiaras.

          So sue me.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge
            Trollface

            Re: Same as iOS 8

            "I'd rather see ads for things I'm interested in than stannah stairlifts, trouser presses and goldfish tiaras."

            What makes you think those ads aren't targeted?

        2. Handy Plough

          Re: Same as iOS 8

          @Oninoshiko

          Precedent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_(software)

          Spotlight, by the way, was introduced in 10.4 fully replaced Sherlock on 10.5. So who says that Spotlight is just for local disk searches? Is there some sort of organisation that dictates this or are you the sole arbiter of what software can and can't do?

          1. Oninoshiko

            Re: Same as iOS 8

            "Is there some sort of organisation that dictates this or are you the sole arbiter of what software can and can't do?"

            As the consumer of software, it turns out, I AM the sole arbiter of what software on my system will do. Funny that. I do not need a program to do some unified search of the web and my machine, it's something I would never want.

            1. Handy Plough

              Re: Same as iOS 8

              Way to move them goalposts...

              You said, and I quote:

              "You'd have to be bloody thick if you think spotlight was for searching the web.

              It's for searching you local harddrive."

              Turns out, Spotlight is for searching the web according to the people that make it, and it's advertised that way too. Moreover, they tell you about it of the first couple of runs and they tell you how to turn it off! Marvellous. As to whether it should be opt-in vs. opt-out, well that's a discussion worth having. Opt-in would have been better IMHO...

              "I AM the sole arbiter of what software on my system will do."

              You are indeed and no-one has said otherwise but that's very different from what the software is capable of doing as defined by the developer. Back to your fatuous original statement; Ssshhh. You are wrong. Stop making it worse by continuing to talk.

    2. Robert Helpmann??
      FAIL

      Re: Same as iOS 8

      iOS 8's Spotlight does the same thing, sending search queries to Bing.

      Bing? Why Bing? I understand that Apple's experience in creating a mapping service might color their perceptions and that farming out this service makes this a more glorious failure, but if they were going to do something blatantly self-destructive, wouldn't Google have been a better choice? It does a better job with search, a better job with mining user information, and undermines Apple's market share more efficiently than Microsoft.

      1. Handy Plough

        Re: Same as iOS 8

        In a word, no. After Google's hamstringing of the Maps API on iOS, fuck them seems to be the attitude from Cupertino. Personally, I'd prefer DuckDuckGo...

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I've had enough

    Will be selling my MacBook Pro

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I've had enough

      "Will be selling my MacBook Pro"

      Good. I need another one real cheap for my sister to get her out of the spiny embrace of MS and their "vision".

      I'd have thought it obvious to even the dense among us that when it was announced that "Spotlight will now search for books and movie titles (among other fluff) and bring back internet results that YOUR SEARCH STRING WAS LEAVING YOUR COMPUTER.

      Just like Ubuntu's little blunder..

      And just like Ubuntu it is "opt out" rather than "in".

      Yes.. bad Apple.

      From the sound of it not as bad as Microsoft's announced instrumentation in the upcoming version 10. (Won't even mention the keylogger in the testing version.)

      May I make one little inquiry?

      Assuming your not a troll and are serious, with what are you planning to replace you Macbook with?

      Expiring minds want to know..

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Holmes

        Re: I've had enough

        @AC - "Assuming your not a troll and are serious, with what are you planning to replace you Macbook with?"

        I'm sure he will want to replace his Macbook with "the most secure computer you’ll ever own":

        http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/29/5664884/this-is-the-most-secure-computer-you-ll-ever-own

      2. Chairo
        Joke

        Re: I've had enough

        @ Anonymous Coward

        Expiring minds want to know..

        Is your mind running on a office 365 licence?

      3. Zolko Silver badge

        Re: I've had enough

        @ AC: with what are you planning to replace you Macbook with?

        No need to replace the machine, it's the OS that sucks. The machine (assuming it's a unibody) is awesome. As for the OS, Debian stable (Wheezy) is a good choice, I also know people using Ubuntu or Mint. Guess that Slackware or LinuxFromScratch would be overkill.

    2. TheRealRoland

      Re: I've had enough

      Playmobil recreation or it isn't true!

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: I've had enough

      Well at least there are checkboxes to turn those options off. Unfortunately there's no checkbox for making the new UI look like it wasn't repeatedly hit with an ugly stick until it got bruised black and blue and then fell unconscious.

      1. Jes.e

        Re: I've had enough

        "..Unfortunately there's no checkbox for making the new UI look like it wasn't repeatedly hit with an ugly stick until it got bruised black and blue and then fell unconscious."

        If you are referring to the transparency effects, you can return your windows to a reassuring solid white and black with a tickbox under the "Accessibility" options I hear.

        ..Save yourself some battery life too.

        If you are referring to other things.. it could be worse..

        Apple could still be using metal to simulate stereo appliances!

        Come to think of it they finally lost all vestiges of their skeumorphism..

        The cassette tape GUI in the sound recorder application on IOS was too precious for words!

    4. Lallabalalla

      Re: I've had enough

      Send it to me, I'll give you £20 for the evil spying death machine**

      **totally brilliant laptop

    5. Zolko Silver badge

      Re: I've had enough

      Install Debian. Works like a charm. Haven't booted MacOS-X since ... well, ever, used it only to partition the drive and install rEffit.

  3. Dave, Portsmouth

    Huh?

    Worst case, if someone hadn't seen or read anything about the changes, then the very first time they use Spotlight they'd see results from Google / Bing / Wikipedia / whatever and should immediately know that in order to do that it must have sent the query to Apple. They can then choose not to use it, or look up how to disable it. Easy, no?

    In other news: Google search sends information to the internet!!!

    1. ThomH

      Re: Huh?

      Using vanilla v10.10, the following is displayed every time I hit the spotlight icon:

      In addition to searching your Mac, Spotlight now shows suggestions from the Internet, iTunes, App Store, locations nearby, and more. To make suggestions more relevant to you, Spotlight includes your approximate location with search requests to Apple.

      You can change this in Preferences. Learn more…

      ... with that final bit being a link. So no intelligence required: just ordinary reading.

      1. Jes.e

        Re: Huh?

        Wow! Devious of them..

        Apple truly IS evil! Yadda Yadda yadda..

        Thank you for that very fine piece of omitted information!

        I only have one upvote for your fine post. Sorry.

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Huh?

        Not quite ordinary reading. Did you check Safari > Preferences > Search? Spotlight Suggestions is also buried there so I suppose Apple get everything you type in the url bar if you leave it on.

        1. Steven Raith

          Re: Huh?

          Dan, like anyone needs more reasons not to use Safari.

          *fires up Chrome, realises irony, sets fire to self*

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Huh?

            The alternative doesn't have to be Chrome, there is Firefox.

            Of course the irony is those people who previously set up Safari to search with DuckDuckGo then upgrade to Yosemite and are possibly blissfully unaware that everything they search for is CC'd to Apple.

            Is it really difficult for even reg commentards to understand that if I set my search provider to X then my searches should only go to X without a CC being sent to my computer manufacturer?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Huh?

        Really, so far I haven't seen this at all. After I get to the second character (or I type quickly, the third), Finder goes "beachball" on me and enters into some sort of tight infinite loop and pretty much renders the machine inert. This seems to be a sub-optimal result for that particular user action. I notice that other activities such as opening drop down menus, opening the Applications pop-up etc. cause the same behaviour. It would appear that search is terminally broken on this machine, and the dreaded solution known only to well to Windows (tm) users, the "clean install" is now mandated.

        Unfortunately I have no idea how that might be accomplished, not having any media and all :(

    2. jtaylor

      Re: Huh?

      I don't "know" how my operating system generates components of its user interface. I don't "know" that when I type in the standard interface of my PC (in this case, Finder), my keystrokes are sent in real-time to various companies. I especially don't "know" when such basic functionality has changed since before I updated the OS.

      And if you think this is at all related to Google Search, then you badly misunderstand the topic.

      The above statements are about me, an IT professional. Most people that I know don't even read EULAs, much less understand the difference between searching in Spotlight and searching in a web browser. Heck, most of them couldn't explain the difference between Cloud and USB except that you have to plug in "a USB."

      This is a big deal. It will become an even bigger deal when someone's iCloud or whatever account is compromised, or when various governments obtain access to search history (or even real-time access to typing and location info) without the user even knowing that was possible.

      1. SuccessCase

        Re: Huh?

        @jtaylor, Do you, do you think when I search in the search box on an Android phone, it might be sending the data to Google?

        Fuck. Me.

        Being an IT professional, I would never have guessed it. You know, not having read the EULA and all. This is a big deal. A huge story is about to break.

        1. jtaylor

          Re: Huh?

          @SuccessCase "do you think when I search in the search box on an Android phone, it might be sending the data to Google?"

          You're talking about a phone, not a PC, but I'll bite.

          I don't know the answer to your question because I don't have an Android phone. That said, I don't expect Google to intercept your typing when you search local phone contacts. That's pretty close to what we're talking about here.

          1. Stacy

            Re: Huh?

            Yes, when I go to Google search on my Android I expect my search query to be sent to Google.

            Using a Bing powered Spotlight search bar I expect my query to be sent to Bing.

            Why should Apple also need a copy of the search request? And why should turning off sending the data to Apple stop Spotlight showing suggestions from an organisation so completely inrelated to them? If you turn off the 'Help improve search' option then that is what it should do, not just throw it's toys out of a pram and disable the functionality completely.

            I opt out of the 'Help improve SQL 2014' and yet SQL server still has full functionality...

            1. Paw Bokenfohr

              Re: Huh?

              @Stacy: "Why should Apple also need a copy of the search request?"

              This is answered in the article.

              Apple takes your request, effectively anonymizes it (by using a fake UID that changes every 15 minutes, thus defeating any attempts by the search provider to build up a tracking profile of you) and then sends it on.

              Guess what it all comes down to is: If you leave the functionality enabled, who would you trust more? Apple (who make profit by selling you the hardware) or the search providers (who make money by selling your profile to advertisers)?

              Obviously, it's Apple in this binary choice. Only an idiot would argue otherwise.

              However, Apple did do a "bad" here. They should have had a big alert come up with an In / Out choice, which would have gotten people's informed consent. Some of us (I would argue probably ONLY the kinds of people who read the Reg) would opt out. Most everyone else would opt in.

          2. Handy Plough

            Re: Huh?

            @jtaylor - How is it different if its a phone? Also to you, but generally, you do realise that this is the default behaviour in Windows 8 and up? Except Microsoft don't even tell you. but hey, you're an 'IT Professional'. ODFO...

      2. jai

        Re: Huh?

        @jtaylor so-called "IT professional" who doesn't know anything about how his computer works. probably time for a new career before someone realises you're just winging it

    3. maffski

      Re: Huh?

      '...they'd see results from Google / Bing / Wikipedia...in order to do that it must have sent the query to Apple'

      I might be thick, but why would it have to send the search to Apple in order to send the search to Google etc? And why couldn't it ask the first time you use it? 'Hi, I can invade your privacy in order to expand my data silo? Would you like me to do that?'

      1. Paw Bokenfohr

        Re: Huh?

        @maffski: "I might be thick, but why would it have to send the search to Apple in order to send the search to Google etc?"

        Aside from the fact it's not Google, I guess it doesn't HAVE to, but it does, to effectively anonymize your searches from "Google" et al. or they would use your UID to track you - as Apple say, they change this for you every 15 minutes. Not something that "Google" would do for you.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Huh?

      The interesting question is why is Apple doing this?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Huh?

        data is money! (more specifically 'your data is their money') I guess that BING pays apple something to know what people want, in aggregate, or specifically, IPv4 linked data, maybe. I have now deselected it.

        Q?

        Why do ppl "sell their MacBook" when they get annoyed wiv apple, MB's are great Windows machines, just put Win10 on it and enjoy the freedom.... :-)

  4. ThomH

    All back to Quicksilver then?

    It would appear they've continued updating it. Reinstalling it should give that pleasingly 10.3 feel to the day.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Move them to the top of the list as well

    Disable recommendations and bing searches and move those two options to the top of the list. Then it will be obvious if they should 'accidentally' get turned back on again.

  6. Sammy Smalls
    Big Brother

    Sigh

    The 3 of them are as bad as each other (MS, Google, Apple) but I'm just finding all a bit tedious with Apple. Yes, the hardware is better then other mainstream manufacturers. Yes the OS works well and generally stays out of your way. Yes there are native apps that let you be productive. Yes I like the battery life. However If you want to send my data somewhere other than my computer then bloody well have the manners to ask (in a clear, non sneaky way). I might even say yes if I think it benefits in a 'larger' non direct sense.

    I thought Little Snitch was trying to tell me something....I guess I should have paid more attention.

    While I'm in rant mode. Stop soldering RAM. It's unnecessary, makes more landfill and makes you look cheap. I get that the standard soddim connector takes quite a bit of space, but soldering as solution. How very 1986.

    I guess I'll start toying with Linux again to see if there's a setup I can work with, but I really dont want to have to. Any suggestions on comparable hardware to a MBP 13" that can take 16GB of RAM? I'll probably fail and continue as I was.

    "You! Yes! You behind the bikesheds! Stand still, laddie!" Get back in line and stop complaining.

    Edit - Oh, and dont worry, your fingerprints are safe with us.....

    1. ThomH

      Re: Sigh

      I wouldn't get too used to soldered RAM; it's clearly going to end up on the same physical silicon as the CPU before too long. Not for everyone, of course, in the same way that the compromises made to have the GPU on the same die isn't good for a lot of users — creatives and gamers, in particular — but I would dare imagine it'll be something Apple does everywhere except the Mac Pro.

      I was pleasantly surprised that the 5k iMac still has RAM sockets. In a machine that size and that price I shouldn't have needed to be surprised at all.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        5K iMac

        It is clearly targeted at content creators (i.e. editing 4K video, with the excess pixels for menus etc.) so of course it must have sockets.

        Apple doesn't solder RAM to piss people off, they do it because it is cheaper and easier to assemble, is more reliable, and the people buying the hardware with it soldered in don't care. It is only us techies who read El Reg who would ever even think about opening up a computer to replace/expand its RAM.

        I'll bet three quarters of people who own a PC laptop don't even realize there is a removable panel on the bottom that gives them access to the memory.

  7. badger31

    Relevant results?

    IE11 for Windows 8.1 is the most relevant result for 'weather' on a Mac? Apple must really hate Google.

    1. Wensleydale Cheese

      Re: Relevant results?

      "IE11 for Windows 8.1 is the most relevant result for 'weather' on a Mac? Apple must really hate Google."

      No, that's Parallels in action. My brief test trial of Parallels showed that it sets things up to prefer Windows apps over native OS X ones.

      Think about that one carefully and you might conclude that they really want you to remain dependent on Windows rather then transitioning to OS X so that you carry on using Parallels (not to mention seemingly without end future upgrades).

    2. P. Lee

      Re: Relevant results?

      >Apple must really hate Google.

      Google is a competent competitor to Apple in the mobile space. MS... not so much.

      Both Apple and MS are trying to end-run around Google by building search into the OS. Google is trying to end-run around MS by moving the intelligence/processing into the cloud. Google fights Apple using "we can keep our cloud up" and providing better results and Apple fights Google by having a more functional desktop OS.

      Like political parties, all three of the major commercial players seem to be adopting the same strategy. Ironically, MS may come out being the good-guy here because of its stake in the business market. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Windows-Home Edition which is as bad as all the rest. Why are they all going the same way? My theory is that the desktop industry is dying. Desktops aren't, but to a large extent they are feature-complete, which has killed the upgrade market. MS locks (business) users into apps which require desktop upgrades, Apple has given up and gives its software away, relying on hardware refreshes. All three want a constant income stream that constantly selling user data provides, so the OS becomes a trojan.

      I think Apple is making a mistake here. You can't market yourself as "premium" and sink to selling your user's data. They should have had a separate box for web search with the offer to combine it if you want. Tell people what the implications are and let them decide - that's how you maintain your brand. It isn't about "I can turn the option off if I want" its about integrity, respect for customers and the value placed on privacy. I'm sure Apple would love Google's revenues to add them to their own, but Apple is not Google and the brand would not survive doing things the Google way.

      I'm sticking with KDE and Firefox. Not perfect, but pretty and functional. Mostly, I know how to organise my stuff and find it without search facilities.

  8. Alan Denman

    They are competing with Google via..

    ..the combined search thing.

    It is not that we users want combined search, it is that Apple and Microsoft want your search business so getting us used to combined search is there way to kill Google.

    Apple bluetooth is another data grabbing weapon, location again.

    1. Wensleydale Cheese
      Unhappy

      Re: They are competing with Google via..

      And I'm losing count of the newly upgraded apps, not just the Apple ones, which want access to Contacts.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Slow news day?

    Ok so i fire up my brand new Chromebook and it sends all my search (and other information) back to Mountain view.

    I fire up my brand new install of Windows XP/7/8 and it sends all my search data back to Remond via Bing.

    Apple have finally cottoned on that they can make money from it - but why is it such a shock story, slow new day?

    With articles of this nature are you planning on adding the word Mirror/Mail/Sport into The Registers name anytime soon?

    1. Paw Bokenfohr

      Re: Slow news day?

      @AC: "Apple have finally cottoned on that they can make money from it"

      Ugh. No. They're not making money from this functionality.

      Note: I cite as many sources for that "fact" as you do for yours.

  10. Syntax Error

    Apple behaving badly

    Its just underhand behaviour by Apple. Not good. Glad the reg wrote the article.

    1. Handy Plough

      Re: Apple behaving badly

      The reg didn't write it! It's practically copy/pasted from an article on Hacker News. And how is telling the end user what the software will do and how to disable it on the first 10 or so uses underhand?

  11. Tim99 Silver badge
    Gimp

    Is it faster?

    My iMac was getting slow. I am an old fart with the attention span of a gnat, so I often have 5 Safari windows open (each with about 10-15 tabs); 4 Firefox windows; iTunes, Mail with 3,500 messages in the Inbox; and Terminal with 4 tabs etc... A week ago I upgraded the 4GB of RAM it had to 8GB. No surprise, everything worked better: 5+GB App memory; 1.4GB File cache; No Swap used, no Compressed memory.

    I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was, if anything, even faster under Yosemite than Mavericks.

    Unfortunately the colour scheme does look as though it was designed in 1996 by a web-site designer who had just transitioned from writing DOS applications to an EGA screen.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Is it faster?

      If you look at the process manager you'll see that it's the browsers that are eating memory (blame the DOM), the rest should be insignificant.

      I still get reasonable performance out of my 2009 MacBook Pro with 4GB memory even with a Windows VM.

  12. RAMChYLD
    Pint

    Never understood this

    iOS does this. Nobody cared.

    Ubuntu does this. People whined.

    Android does this. Nobody cared.

    OS X does this. People whined.

    So the consensus is, people don't like being tracked while on a desktop, but is fine with being tracked on a fondleslab or mobe?

    1. Paw Bokenfohr

      Re: Never understood this

      @RAMChYLD: "So the consensus is, people don't like being tracked while on a desktop, but is fine with being tracked on a fondleslab or mobe?"

      Good catch. Good question. Perhaps people are more ashamed of what they search their computer for than what they search their phone for?

      1. MrWibble

        Re: Never understood this

        Probably along the lines that computers are for real work, where sensitive information may be stored / used...

  13. tempemeaty
    Mushroom

    IMHO, Apple's showing signs of being just as corrupt as the rest

    Apple customers pay a PREMIUM for a product that is supposed to be better. THIS DATA COLLECTION IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. And also "...using Microsoft's Bing engine" ? WTF?!?!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: IMHO, Apple's showing signs of being just as corrupt as the rest

      Microsoft has at least fixed the behaviour by which if you searched for e.g. Windows 8.1 update in Bing, the first few entries were malware sites.

  14. Mike Bell

    Apple don't really talk to El Reg, which is understandable. But they do talk to imore.com

    Apple's response there kicks a few wild accusations into the long grass.

    Lest anyone needs reminding, Apple doesn't need your personal data in order to conduct its business. Plenty of other tech firms do.

  15. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Why bother?

    I don't have any I-toys and so far I've yet to see any reasons for upgrading to OS X 10.10. Are there any?

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    More correctly...

    iOS did this. Nobody cared.

    Ubuntu did this. People kicked up a shitstorm.

    Android did this. Nobody cared (Google is the search engine though).

    OS X did this. Nobody cared.

    There, fixed that for you.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bing?

    "It appears Spotlight sends queries, along with your location, back to Apple over the internet so the company can suggest related things from the web using Microsoft's Bing engine. Apple says it needs to see your queries so it can improve Spotlight's algorithms for suggesting things."

    Apple working to improve Bing. They could also rename their map app Bang :)

  18. Mitoo Bobsworth

    For searching local drives...

    .. I never cared for spotlight, always found it rather clumsy & omissive. I found a simple shareware app a while ago in my search for an alternative (no affiliations here) called "find any file" - which does a far better job, imho.

  19. tempemeaty

    Google, not as trusted...

    Someone I know observed how interesting it was that Apple used Bing and not Google. They expressed the thought that it was telling on how Apple felt about Google with any kind of user data. Something to ponder.

    @ Mike Bell, Good link. Thanks for providing it. Perhaps Apple hasn't gone all the way to the dark side just yet.

  20. 101

    It's all spyware, resistance is futile

    Good to know. I was leaning towards buying a Mac in order to unload my windows spyware machine.

    I guess it's all spyware anymore.

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