Police Lie to Scaremonger Shocker!
Who would of thought it?
Police stats inflate the number of guns actually stolen in Blighty
The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has claimed that more legally owned firearms were lost or stolen over the last few years than appears to be the case, according to an exclusive analysis by The Register. The discrepancy casts doubt on a new initiative pillorying gun owners for being careless about gun security. …
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Monday 20th October 2014 10:19 GMT Anonymous Coward
what a surprise
Better they spent more time and effort on the real issue i.e firearm crime by criminals! But there again license holders are to pardon the pun an easy target.
Interestingly I had the following emailed to me last week from the BASC (British Association for Shooting and Conservation)
“From Wednesday 15 October police forces in England and Wales will be taking part in an initiative to ensure firearms are being kept and stored securely. New Home Office guidance allows the police to make unannounced visits to check on the security arrangements of certificate holders under certain circumstances. The police do not have any new powers of entry.”
The new Home Office guidance states that:
“Where it is judged necessary, based on specific intelligence in light of a particular threat, or risk of harm, the police may undertake an unannounced home visit to check the security of a certificate holder’s firearms and shotguns. It is not expected that the police will undertake an unannounced home visit at an unsocial hour unless there is a justified and specific requirement to do so on the grounds of crime prevention or public safety concerns and the police judge that this action is both justified and proportionate.
"It is recognised that there is no new power of entry for police or police staff when conducting home visits. To mitigate any misunderstanding on the part of the certificate holder the police must provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit.”
I’m lucky that I live in Cornwall as D&C Police firearms department are very good. And D&C have just about the lowest amount of firearms crime in the UK and just about the highest firearms ownership.
And the Scottish government still seem to be pressing ahead with its plan to require the licensing of air weapons in Scotland despite there being a very large drop in the amount of air weapon crime and all the evidence showing this. Good old Socialist republic of Scotland attitude, if you don’t like something ban it.
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Monday 20th October 2014 10:32 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Shocked
There was a little bit after the Olympics when we did pretty well in the shooting events. Actually of course the pistol events shouldn't have been allowed to happen as technically speaking using a pistol is illegal in this country.
The BASC do do a pretty good job at promoting shooting sports
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Monday 20th October 2014 13:17 GMT rh587
Re: Shocked
"ok there are a small number of pistols that fall outside of the ban, I wouldn't say many types. Hence why the UK pistol squad have to train abroad, channel Islands I think?"
No, they went to Switzerland. Now they train at a single-figure number of nominated ranges in the UK where their Section 5s are stored.
Then there are the humane dispatch guns that a few vets have who may encounter circumstances where a captive bolt is inappropriate. And of course the growing number of Section 1 long barrelled pistols and revolvers, the Section 7 collectors who occasionally shoot their pistols and machine guns at nominated ranges, and the muzzle-loading and black-powder pistol crowd.
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Monday 20th October 2014 13:14 GMT rh587
Re: Shocked
"Using a pistol is not illegal in the UK. Certain types of pistols (I.e semi automatic above .22 calibre and fully automatic) are banned from the general public. There are many types of pistols that are perfectly legal."
Think you're confusing the semi-auto bit with semi-auto rifles above .22rimfire.
To get around the general prohibition on "short firearms" they must be longer than 6cm, and the barrels longer than 30cm. If they are .22 then they can be semi-auto, greater than that not. Very few of the pistols accessible by the general public are really "pistols", bar the criteria that they are fired one handed. LBRs, LBPs and black powder pistols are not quite the same game as a Glock 17 though.
And they're not banned from the general public. Anyone can get a Section 5 permit if you put forward a good enough argument to the home secretary. The bar is just set really, really high. Higher than the "Good Reason" to get a Section 1 Certificate.
British Shooting can nominate 25 elite pistol shooters to keep Section 5 pistols in the UK to train with. A few ex-military and political figures who were involved with NI and against whom credible threats still exist have also been permitted to keep a section 5 firearm for self-defence, along with a few vets and deer stalkers for humane dispatch (usually a revolver with all but two of the cylinders welded up so you can only load two rounds at a time)
* Not defending the current state of affairs. It's a load of bull. But there isn't strictly a ban on owning or using a pistol.
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Monday 20th October 2014 21:01 GMT The Wegie
Re: Shocked
"Not defending the current state of affairs. It's a load of bull. But there isn't strictly a ban on owning or using a pistol."
True, but I don't think one can now imagine the way my dad and his co-worker used to keep a single shot .38 humane killer wrapped in a duster under the seat of a Land Rover. Anybody nowadays cheerfully asking their 8 year old daughter to trot over to the car and get the gun and ammo so that he could dispatch a poor animal is going to be having a very long chat with the plod and social services!
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Tuesday 21st October 2014 08:08 GMT codejunky
Re: Shocked
@ The Wegie
"Anybody nowadays cheerfully asking their 8 year old daughter to trot over to the car and get the gun and ammo so that he could dispatch a poor animal is going to be having a very long chat with the plod and social services!"
We need the laws! There isnt enough cotton wool in the world!
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Wednesday 22nd October 2014 13:43 GMT Beerhunter
Re: Shocked
I'm afraid that mrbawsaq has got it wrong with: Certain types of pistols (I.e semi automatic above .22 calibre and fully automatic) are banned from the general public. There are many types of pistols that are perfectly legal."
There are NOT "many types of pistol that are perfectly legal. The 1997 Acts (there were two) removed from civilian ownership ALL pistols and revolvers: self-loaders, revolvers, single shot - ALL of them; with a (very) few exceptions based on use e.g. humane destruction, slaughtering, starting athletic races. It is simply NOT possible to own a pistol for target shooting (the main use before the ban) for example - end of.
BTW, fully automatic weapons have been banned in the UK sincc the 1920s.
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Monday 20th October 2014 13:32 GMT Anonymous Coward
Other "Firearms" Included ?
I was astonished to find any nautical person also has to register distress flares as firearms as well including all the nonsense of a gun cabinet and secure storage - all very handy when your boat is in trouble and you need to find the keys to unlock the double-door gun cabinet bolted to the submerged bottom of the boat. Don't try lending a flare pack to someone going out to sea as you're an illegal firearm criminal then.
Presumably ACPO have added all the dropped overboard & used flares as well since they are 'firearms' which are never 'used', only 'lost' [by criminally careless owners].
Sounds like we've an impending set of 'strengthened' gun laws and police powers in the pipeline to keep the proles in check.
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Monday 20th October 2014 15:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: You sure about that?
I had a very involved conversation with the firearms licensing officer at my local force. He was particularly clear that the fact it was not actually a gun was irrelevant. They required licensing and posession without a license was an offence - no excuses. I asked about places selling without checking for a license and they were clear that was an offence - I only asked originally as I'd been refused a sale without producing a firearms license to the retailer to inspect and wanted to check the legal position before I went elsewhere that was not asking for licenses. I suppose it is possible that different forces implement the rules differently but I would be surprised at that.
(The rules were apparently changed because someone was killed by a flare at a football match a long time back - I'm surprised that's still happening as you describe).
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Monday 20th October 2014 15:32 GMT Jason Bloomberg
Re: Other "Firearms" Included ?
I recall "rock splitters" may also be classed as a fire arm. They are effectively a tube with lines of holes in the side, filled with water with a shotgun cartridge stuffed in the end. Drill a hole in the rock, drop it in, kaboom, high-pressure water ejection; crack. A poor man's 'laser cutter'.
And you don't want to mistake a primed one for a dildo!
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Monday 20th October 2014 15:49 GMT JaitcH
Goosed statistics often precede budget or legislation changes
In Canada a 'crime' is flagged as solved as soon as an arrest is made. Looks good at annual review time.
Unfortunately, a lot of charges are later withdrawn for lack of evidence, others are 'Not Guilty' at trial or 'Not Guilty' on appeal.
One appeal went all the way to the Canadian Supreme Court over the use of the word 'MAY' by the judge. The appeal was sustained!
Statistics lie!
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Monday 20th October 2014 16:41 GMT KBeee
Nothing much changes
It was only a few years ago that certain types of air pistols were banned because
"half of all firearms recovered by the Metropolitan Police last year were these air pistols adapted to fire live rounds".
Sounds like a LOT of guns...
After they had been banned it turned out that the correct statement should have been
"half of all firearms, adapted from other things, recovered by the Metropolitan Police last year were these air pistols adapted to fire live rounds"
The actual number was 5.
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Friday 24th October 2014 12:18 GMT oh really?
Re: Nothing much changes
the ban made this class of airgun Sec5 to all except to those who were aware of the underpublicised change in the law and licensed them at the time. If you wre lucky enough to be aware and apply they are classified as Sec1 to the owner.
Unfortunately you can't sell, gift, exchange, swap, lend, bequeath on your demise or in fact do anything much with what might have cost several hundred pounds at the time. Essentially making it valueless and also irreplaceable.
The other side effect is that there were at least 68,000 of this type of airgun sold in GB from just one manufacturer pre VCR bill. less than 7000 from all makes were eventually licensed so that is a lot of Firearms Crime CREATED by badly thought through and poorly implemented legislation.
There is a general undercurrent of demonisation and FUD being pushed in Britain around firearms ownership by civilians.
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Biting the hand that feeds IT
