back to article French 'terror law' declares WAR on the INTERNET itself, say digi-rights folks

The French Senate passed a new anti-terror bill last night after just one reading. The new law, which still has to be examined by a Joint Commission in the coming weeks, includes bans on leaving the country for anyone suspected of planning a terrorist act, the creation of an “individual terrorist enterprise” offence, …

  1. JP19

    Terrorists win some more....

    without actually needing to do a thing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Terrorists win some more....

      Indeed.

      France joins Britain by making thought-crime an offence. Who's next?

    2. Daniel von Asmuth
      Big Brother

      Re: Terrorists win some more....

      "this suspicion would be based on secret notes from intelligence services that people would not be able to challenge."

      This sounds like the bad old times preceding the French Revolution.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité

        That is all

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité

            It's collaboration. Maybe you need a dictionary.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Terrorists win some more....

      Ehhh, the entire western civilisation is going to hell in a handbasket - this is just one more symptom. Lofty ideals went out of style quite a while ago, these day everyone is just keen to grab a bigger stick to shake at everybody else, especially at their own people (...down! STAY DOWN!). It makes me actually glad I won't be around 30-40 years from now because I have precisely zero illusions about anything getting better in this respect until then. I feel sorry for the next couple of generations - they are in for some tough shit; after that, who knows...

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      its not about terrorism- tin foil hat

      It's not really about terrorism, in fact terrorism is just the convenient excuse of Governments to gain extra powers in the oppression of the population.

      Look around you, Government would love a new terrorist atrocity so they can enact more powers of control.

      At the moment they can only claim to have prevented terrorist attacks, last year they prevented over 500, but where is the proof? Keep the population on edge, keep them scared.

      I wouldn't put it past them to help a little atrocity on its way, encourage it a little. Then more laws and oppression in the name of freedom can be enacted. Before we know it, we all become prisoners in our own country.

      Ok so I'm getting a little carried away, but terrorism is a great little earner for Governments.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The French

      The French economy is on its knees, high unemployment, low output, stagnation.

      They need some big news headline to divert attention from that.

      War in the Internet will make them forget about their crumbling world for a little while, after which I am sure they will find another thing to have a go at.

  2. alain williams Silver badge

    Who defines terrorist ?

    What if someone goes to join the conflict in Gaza, should he be allowed to go ?

    Yes/no if he goes to join Hamas to throw bombs ?

    Yes/no if he goes to join the Israeli army to throw bombs ?

    Both almost as bad as each other - but I bet only one gets stopped!

    1. BillG

      Re: Who defines terrorist ?

      France has effectively declared war on the internet.

      France is expected to surrender next week.

      1. FartingHippo
      2. Cipher
        Coat

        Re: Who defines terrorist ?

        And we all recall French War Victories

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who defines terrorist ?

      Actually there is a very clear and well defined line.

      1. Anyone deliberately and on purpose attacking a civilian non-combatant target by definition is a terrorist.

      2. Anyone who targets exclusively military installations, infrastructure, etc has to be given the benefit of the doubt of being a rebel.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Holmes

        Re: Who defines terrorist ?

        Anyone deliberately and on purpose attacking a civilian non-combatant target by definition is a terrorist unless

        he/she can reasonably claim "best effort" to have avoided "collateral damage" or manages to push through the relabeling of burnt wedding guest as "persons giving material support to terrorists" (who, one supposes, must have been in the fireball at least initially). Bonus points when the collateralized area was an UN refugee compound and "audiovisual material" can be sourced that "proves" that "shots were fired" from its general "vicinity".

      2. hplasm
        Mushroom

        Re: Who defines terrorist ?

        "Actually there is a very clear and well defined line."

        Thanks for that. Now will someone please inform these fuckers in charge? Ta.

      3. BongoJoe

        Re: Who defines terrorist ?

        Anyone deliberately and on purpose attacking a civilian non-combatant target by definition is a terrorist.

        Goodness, if civilian non-combatants include South American electricians and newspaper vendors then there's plenty of these terrorists afoot.

    3. Anomalous Cowshed

      Re: Who defines terrorist ?

      Choose whichever definition of terrorist you like best:

      Broad definition of terrorist: all of you lot.

      Narrow definition of terrorist: you, and you, and you over there, and you on the right, and you in front, and you...ok this is taking too long, so...all of you lot.

      1. Anomalous Cowshed

        Re: Who defines terrorist ?

        Cow's definition of a terrorist: (1) anyone except members of the Hindu religion (valid ID required). (2) Anyone called McDonalds or who is in any way associated with McDonalds, the so-called restaurant chain.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who defines terrorist ?

      One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter.

      The person who defines a terrorist are those that Govern and then the person who writes the history books and the population who like to be led like a flock of sheep.

  3. DJO Silver badge

    We know a song about this don't we girls and boys

    Anything you can do, I can do better!

    I can do anything better than you!

    No you can't!

    Yes, Icann!

    No, you can't!

    Yes, Icann!

    No, you can't!

    Yes, Icann, Yes, Icann!

    I can over-react to a single outrage

    I can screw you with a no-fly list

    I can convict in secret courts

    Secret courts, is that all?

    Much more but I can't tell you now

    Really

    Yes

    No you can't!

    Yes, Icann!

    No, you can't!

    Yes, Icann!

    No, you can't!

    Yes, Icann, Yes, Icann!

    And so on..........

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: We know a song about this don't we girls and boys

      BRAVO!

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The ECJ/Human rights people might have somethnig to say about this

    Oh wait, them Froggies never abide by their rulings anyway

    France may become a no-go area soon.

    1. Stretch

      Re: France No Go Area

      Unlikely, they have nice weather.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: France No Go Area

        France may become a no-go area soon.

        So who are these nogos and why do they set up shop in France?

  5. Stretch

    EDF!!!

    You make electricity!!!! TERRORISTS NEED ELECTRICITY!!!! YOU FRENCH TERRORISTS!!!!!!!

  6. WonkoTheSane
    Black Helicopters

    Similar on Radio news earlier.

    Some guys in the UK have been charged with assorted Terror offenses including "On-line reconnaissance of a police station and military base", AKA using Google Earth.

    1. James 51

      Re: Similar on Radio news earlier.

      I was going to go with road maps but same idea.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: Similar on Radio news earlier.

        If you pay cash for your maps, they can pull you in for "obvious effort to hide a transaction"

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Similar on Radio news earlier.

      And if I heard it correctly, part of the evidence was "Possession of an encrypted SD card".

      Good job they didn't have cars. Filling them with petrol (as used in Molotov cocktails) or diesel (As used in ANFO) would have been "purchasing materials for use by terrorists".

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    France is a police state anyway...

    so this is small peanuts.

    You have no real rights in France:

    If an officer-of-the-peace says you did something then that's what "legally" happened, unless you have a witness to say otherwise.

    Also if you try and "porter plainte" against the police the success rate is virtually zero and then you open yourself up to being continually stopped by the police for the rest of your life.

    Or worse, they'll charge you with "outrage à agent"

    Sleep tight!

  8. hplasm
    Happy

    In other words-

    France declares war on Internet for not being all in French.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So if I search for a flight to France?

    "As it stands, the proposed law criminalises “searching, obtaining or making” material that could be used in an “individual terrorist undertaking”. "

    If I want to go to France and I search for a flight, am I commiting a criminal act because, while I don't actually intend to, theroretically I _could_ try to hijack it for terrorist purposes?

  10. Chozo

    Participating in terrorist activities

    Like storming the Bastille for instance....

    1. Crazy Operations Guy

      Re: Participating in terrorist activities

      What about blowing up bridges in the middle of Paris to prevent the advance of German troops?

      1. BongoJoe

        Re: Participating in terrorist activities

        Or as my father discovered in the heady days of the early to mid forties, that outside of Communist France they were being blown up to stop the advance of the allied forces.

  11. Amorous Cowherder
    Facepalm

    "It also gives the government new powers to block websites deemed to “incite” or “glorify” terrorism."

    Ah, so if you Frenchies want to know who this Guy Fawkes fella was, you're in for a spell in clinky then!

  12. John G Imrie

    block websites deemed to “incite” or “glorify” terrorism.

    That's the following web sites fucked then

    and of cause those arch terrorists who made this propogander film

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Trollface

      Re: block websites deemed to “incite” or “glorify” terrorism.

      Its France, so to comply with the new law they can just re-dub V for Vendetta so that V spends the film offing gauche foreigners who like their filet mignons well-done and their coffee instant!!

  13. heyrick Silver badge

    Definitions needed

    Who or what defines "terrorism"? Depending on who you ask, Israeli and American sites should be blocked and their citizens watched. If you're going instead to define terrorism as the Western enemy du jour, that's a somewhat blinkered view (dig around, there are implications that a certain country helped train both Taliban and ISIS).

    So, I repeat again, who or what defines terrorism?

    1. Cipher

      Re: Definitions needed

      " So, I repeat again, who or what defines terrorism?"

      Are you challenging the Almighty State comrade?

      Maybe some time in Re-Education Camp?

      What? Withdrawing your question are you? Good comrade, very good...

  14. Trigonoceps occipitalis

    WAR

    We have fought many wars with the French. Sometimes they've been on our side, sometimes not. The only time we've ever come close to losing is when they're on our side.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Big Brother

    Considering the number of French muslims in ISIS' leadership...

    I can see where the concern comes from, but a modicum of proportionality shouldn't be too much to ask. This sounds like legislation that is soon to be abused because you questioned racial relations I. France, or holiday lengths, or organized some labor action, or accused the police of excessive force, and so on....

  16. ecofeco Silver badge

    Again and again, they don't understand the Internet

    The inbred aristocracy, PTB and suits really DO NOT understand the Internet.

    Say what you like about Al Gore, but he WILL go down in history as the man who changed everything.

  17. Jes.e

    Err.. hummm..

    "According to French digital liberties organisation Quadrature du Net, the ministers believe “the internet is a danger in itself that needs derogatory measures”."

    Derogatory measures?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Err.. hummm..

      Derogatory measures = they fart in the internet's general direction!

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Aaand in other news

    Project "Looking-Glass" (google "M-theory") just got a boost.

    Good luck France, because when the entire intelligentsi disappear off to M3X-151 there will be no-one left to run the Internet.

    Schematics sent on their merry way, good luck stopping that.

    I expect that about 500 prominent scientists, hobbyists and hackers just woke up to this in their inbox, complete with build data AND everything they need including where to get all the parts to build the device and a power source good for one ID jump.

  19. Gray
    Boffin

    Follow the leader ...

    ... said in its official opinion that, in practice, this suspicion would be based on secret notes from intelligence services that people would not be able to challenge.

    Yeh, old news. The US established this "practice" right after 9/11/01. It's just taken the French a few years to catch up.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re. Looking-Glass

    (Makes note next time to send encrypted copies first then distribute key afterwards so everyone has copy at the same time, as it seems they got lost in the post!!)

    I still have a copy fortunately and there are some enhancements being worked on such as being able to power it without a truckload of lead acid batteries and a generator.

    The problem as it turns out is to get enough of a rotating electromagnetic field in the toroid to form a stable interdimensional gateway without messing up nearby EM powered devices as this usually ends badly.

    The tricky part is to get a steep field gradient so energy isn't needlessly wasted heating up the air or coils, many electric motors now use flat disk magnets and printed coils so this could be helpful.

    Also focusing the field using a superconducting disk and using feedback techniques such as an accelerometer to tune the windings for maximum gravitomagnetic field is handy.

    Still can't manage to get it phone handset sized, sorry about that :-)

    btw Evgene was right, spinning superconductors do very strange things indeed.

    It is entirely possible that the early "levity disks" are cousins of the more recent HTSC experiments as rotating certain alloys at much higher speeds does in fact yield gravitomagnetic like effects although of a lesser magnitude and only detectable indirectly on radioactive half life without a MEMS accelerometer which wasn't invented until the late 1990s.

    As it turns out the ancecdotal evidence of "glowing disks" makes sense as due to the AG field the isotope would experience substantial shortening of its half life to the point of spontaneous fission resulting in Cerenkov radiation being emitted; this would be very bad for anyone nearby if so.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    RE. Re. Looking-Glass

    If anyone has a suggestion for making a miniaturized version of this please let me know.

    I expect that given the right materials (ie superconductive at room temperature) rotating two closely spaced cylinders of the material in opposite directions might be enough to magnify the inherent field energy from the quantum vacuum and if the radioactive material inside the cylinders was say plutonium oxide or other energy dense isotope then this would solve the energy problem.

    Once it was rotating fast enough the reaction would self sustain and generate a stable vortex, although it wouldn't last very long (say maybe ten minutes) and use up the isotope very quickly so it would be a one way trip.

  22. N13L5

    Anti-terrorism - the new Inquisition...

    People always talk like the dark ages are a thing of the past...

    Pffft, I call bs.

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