back to article Rise of the Machines: FIRST HUMAN VICTIM – 2015

Death via internet, online contract killers and crime-as-a-service were just three of the scarier elements discussed by international top cops at the Interpol-Europol cybercrime summit in Singapore last week. The Internet Organised Crime Threat Assessment, a report prepared by Europol’s cybercrime division, warns that the so- …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Really? Worried? You had me for a minute there

    Let's presume that they are _REALLY_ worried about IoT going rogue and someone being run over by smart cars, smashed by a smart evevator, having their heart blown up by a smart pacemaker or the easiest one - having someone's insulin pump make a 10x error in the dosage.

    If that is so, and they are really worried, can I ask a stupid question - Why the f*ck are they still playing the paedo/terror "the world will end" card every time we (the ones who make and design the devices and services) try jack up the security and encryption in them?

    1. Robert Helpmann??
      Childcatcher

      Re: Really? Worried? You had me for a minute there

      Why the f*ck are they still playing the paedo/terror "the world will end" card every time we (the ones who make and design the devices and services) try jack up the security and encryption in them?

      Left hand, meet right hand. Conversely, this might be an effort to generate more budget so it is important to highlight real, emerging, difficult to quantify threats. Or the people presenting this data might be unassociated with those who typically bring up the paedoterrorcrim issue. Or "they" might have simultaneous though conflicting goals. Pick as many as you feel may apply.

      1. Tom 35

        Re: Really? Worried? You had me for a minute there

        I expect they will be asking for a backdoor on all IoT devices and services so they can catch people streaming sheep videos to their TVs.

        1. TheOtherHobbes

          Re: Really? Worried? You had me for a minute there

          > I expect they will be asking for a backdoor on all IoT devices and services so they can catch people streaming sheep videos to their TVs.

          At least.

          if (user == bondVillain) {

          toaster.popup Force = LETHAL;

          exploit.execute();

          }

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Tom 35

          Ewe would have to bring that up

        3. earl grey
          Trollface

          Re: Really? Worried? You had me for a minute there

          Wait a minute. Sheep videos? Where...?

      2. BillG
        Childcatcher

        Re: Really? Worried? You had me for a minute there

        Why the f*ck are they still playing the paedo/terror "the world will end" card every time we (the ones who make and design the devices and services) try jack up the security and encryption in them?

        The threat is real. Why? Because this is the discussion going on every day:

        VP of Engineering: "We can have this IoT Thingie on the market in ten months. The timeline is in front of you."

        CEO: "Hey, what's this, six months for development and four months for security features? Skip the security and get it to market in six months."

        VP of Engineering: "Um, wait..."

        CEO: "I'm cutting the budget for security development. See, we get to market faster and we save money too?"

        VP of Engineering: "But what is someone hacks our product?"

        CEO: "You're crazy - nobody is going to hack our product! *** "

        *** I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard this. It's always yelled with a mixture of laughter and anger.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Really? Worried? You had me for a minute there

          "Nobody is going to hack our project"

          going through this at the minute.

          have been working with a legacy system for 7 years (400,000 active customers mean it can't easily be replaced) so the decision was taken that a new front end would be built which would interface with the legacy backend via an api.

          the API and backend are as near bulletproof as I can get them.

          the new frontend is being built by clueless idiots who can't do anything unless a plugin already exists for their chosen framework.

          I give the new front end 24 hours before it's breached.

          strangely they can't understand why I want a complete operational carbon copy of the old system in place before the new one gets switched in.

          anon for obvious reasons

    2. Mark 85

      Re: Really? Worried? You had me for a minute there

      Why the f*ck are they still playing the paedo/terror "the world will end" card every time we (the ones who make and design the devices and services) try jack up the security and encryption in them?

      Why the f*ck do you think? The answer is power. What's a few deaths, a few hundred, a few thousand deaths when they can have power? Look at what's going on in the rest of world and it's all about power. Why not in the "civilized" countries also, but just different?

  2. Mr_Pitiful

    And this affects me how?

    Apart from the two computers on my network, what on earth could they attack me with?

    Should I buy a WiFi router just to be on the wild side?

    1. Primus Secundus Tertius

      Re: And this affects me how?

      At a mundane level, it could make car theft easier.

      1. Mr_Pitiful

        Re: And this affects me how?

        If some-one wants to mess with my 2001 Skoda, good luck to them

        1. YetAnotherLocksmith Silver badge

          Re: And this affects me how?

          <message_begins>Hmmm. Quick hack into the car computers via the OBDII interface to tell it to lock up the front brake caliper next time they are doing 88mph and indicate right should take care of that troublemaker.</message_begins>

          1. Mr_Pitiful

            Re: And this affects me how?

            No access to the OBDII in my car, the previous owner cut the cables to it,

            Now I wonder why they cut the cable? did they know something you guys know?

            1. Peter2 Silver badge

              Re: And this affects me how?

              If somebody has physical access to the interior of the car to connect something to the OBDII port then they have sufficient access to kill you in many ways that don't require a computer to be involved such as disabling the drivers airbag and punching a hole in the lines holding your brake fluid so that you have a fatal surprise when you come off a motorway at speed and then try and brake.

              1. Chronic The Weedhog

                Re: And this affects me how?

                I suppose that would be the M.O. of someone who has nothing to fear from the law, but for the rest of the planet, stealth is standard operating procedure... unless you have $h1+ for brains.

                But you're right though to a high degree. If someone's looking to kill someone, especially in a clandestine manner, tampering to the target's vehicle is a tenuous solution that will only lead to an investigation which no federal agency is going to want to have going on, and the more likely method of assassination will be something much harder to trace forensically. Poisoning works well, especially when the toxin is made from environmental agents (black mold, spider venom, other natural toxins with methods of entering a body without murder being suspect).

                But no... the brake thing... good luck with that.

            2. denzil

              Re: And this affects me how?

              BMW by any chance ?

              :)

              1. Mr_Pitiful

                Re: And this affects me how?

                Skoda!!!!

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    On the positive side

    Maybe there's scope for bitcoin-funded kickstarter projects to hire hitmen to deal with spammers and telemarketers?

  4. i like crisps

    EUROTRASH

    It seems to me that Mr Trolls Outing, and his gang, are trying to get their Christmas Box early this year. If they want to wage a war on 'Cybercrime' they're going to have to use their 'Digital Truncheons' on their own security services and Police forces first, before they start kicking down at the rest of us!..............what's on your hard drive Trolly?

  5. PleebSmash
    Pirate

    Death via internet, online contract killers and crime-as-a-service

    Good luck finding reliable reviews for assassins on a Dark Wallet type Bitcoin marketplace. A++++ would kill again.

  6. brooxta

    Advances in AI

    Maybe it's because we haven't invented actual positronic brains yet? How on earth are feeble ARM/MIPS processors meant to cope with the moral quandaries posed by modern society? No wonder the first law is going out of the window.

  7. davcefai

    Why?

    Is "the internet of things" another fad like cloud computing?

    I can understand linking a fridge to the web, so that it can order stuff I might not want, but why on earth would anybody want their car management system linked to the www?

    Or, even even worse, a pacemaker. You really need to have absolutely no enemies to do that safely <g>

    Please note, I assume a difference between "connected to the web" and "accessible under controlled conditions".

    1. Muscleguy

      Re: Why?

      wrt pacemakers there is kit in development at the very least whereby you run an app on your smartphone which can connect to your cardiologist and give her a realtime readout on your ticker and enable her to tweak the settings on your pacemaker from her office or maybe wherever (because that would be convenient).

      Now I can see several benefits both the patient and the clinician which is why this is being developed. But I can also see how it could potentially be subverted. I have a PhD in physiology and I reckon knowing the parameters of the pacemaker I could set it remotely to either do or not do something and maybe in a contra-indicated way. But then you would need to know that the target is going to be doing something stressful or strenuous and not within easy reach of those motorcycling paramedics they have as first responders now. Kill you straight out? probably not, though that might depend what sort of pacemaker you have. The sitting there waiting to shock your heart into normality when it gets beat funky? hard. The sort that is actually driving the heart beat by unfunky beat? now that might be possible. But such a person is already pretty sick, so why bother?

  8. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

    Crime as a Service?

    Like, with telephone and stuff?

    Far out!

    1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

      Re: Crime as a Service?

      The idea that you will be able to hire bad people to do bad things just blows my mind.

      1. Chronic The Weedhog

        Re: Crime as a Service?

        "Dirty Deeds.... done dirt cheap!"

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    When I started reading this, I had the opening drum tune of "Terminator" going through my head, and instead of zooming in on a flaming metal skull, I pictured zooming in slowly on a wall thermostat or a frig.

    Now what would be cool is if a hacker could get into some type of IOT device and have it play ACDC "Who Made Who" or send it as a message to someone that plays that or text it....

    hmmmmm.......

    1. earl grey
      Trollface

      Flaming skull & motorcycle

      You could almost make a movie out of that.

  10. Anonymous Bullard
    Terminator

    Judgement day will be here soon. Mark my words.

  11. Chris G

    On the ToDo list

    Was figuring out how to get their mitts on Proceeds of Crime.

    Increasingly cops rely on criminals 'proceeds of crime' in order to have sufficient funding (and Lamborghinis) to follow their pet projects through, there also seems to be less oversight on how they spend PoC as it is not budgeted,

    This indicates that stamping out crime is not in the interests of police forces but just nicking enough wealthy crim's to keep things rolling along nicely is.

  12. Steen Larsen
    Terminator

    The hacked surveillance state will do bad things too

    They forgot another threat: The surveillance state and the police themselves are now part of the IoT. Hackers can probably easily get you committed to prison for the rest of your life by planting some nasty stuff on your PC and create a few fake communications trails in somebody's network.

    Maybe one day the hackers will even be able to send a SWAT team around to get you killed. No, that will never happen! Oh wait, SWAT teams have already been commanded into innocent peoples houses numerous times.

  13. Fungus Bob
    Facepalm

    blackmail, ransomware and “possible death”

    Aren't those three something we have to live with daily already?

  14. Carronade1

    We should listen very closely to what these people have to say.

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