back to article Vanished blog posts? Enterprise gaps? Welcome to Windows 10

Microsoft has posted early builds of Windows 10, showing its new approach to combining tablet and desktop support in one all-encompassing operating system. According to the company’s marketing script, this preview is for enterprises to try. A consumer preview will follow early next year, and a developer preview in April, to …

  1. Khaptain Silver badge

    Windows 7 with a flat theme

    The article is interesting; it shows that MS have almost nothing new that will stir up new media frenzy...

    Honestly it read as though they have backstopped, ripped out what people didn't like, almost everything W8 related and simply left a couple of tiles here and there for good measure.

    I am not complaining, W8 had a light footprint, hopefully 10 will retain this. But on the whole it just looks like W7 with a flat theme. (This flat scheme and colours thing is really off-putting and really not encouraging).

    All very lacking really.

    1. theOtherJT Silver badge

      Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

      Thing is, I'm fine with that. The Windows 7 desktop environment is a nice one. It's easy to get on with and I've never found it terribly lacking. Sure, give me multiple desktops, it's a nice upgrade. Quarter docking... I have a 30" monitor on which that would be pretty handy.... but what I _really_ want is better kernel stability and memory management. Windows 8 did that, and hopefully 10 will improve on it again.

      Seems to me that they might have finally realized that UI weren't broke, so they shouldn't have tried to "Fix" it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

        "they might have finally realized that UI weren't broke"

        How can a UI be out of money? Or are you an illiterate that doesn't understand the difference between a verb and an adjective - and actually meant broken?

        1. daemonoid

          Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

          ""they might have finally realized that UI weren't broke"

          How can a UI be out of money? Or are you an illiterate that doesn't understand the difference between a verb and an adjective - and actually meant broken?"

          My pedant sense is tingling...

          Also, it's worthwhile pointing out that usage trumps 'the rules', a fact that even the OED espouses. Given that the OP was clearly paraphrasing the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" I would call the AC out as the most amusing kind of pedant... an incorrect pedant...

        2. theOtherJT Silver badge

          Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

          Woosh award for the day.

          "Ain't broke, don't fix" Past tense "Aint" presumably "Wern't"

        3. Irongut

          Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

          The W7 UI may not be broke but the AC pedant certainly is.

          1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

            Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

            What is this I don't even?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

            "The W7 UI may not be broke but the AC pedant certainly is."

            Using 'broke' as an adjective instead of 'broken' is on a par for ignorance and irritation with using 'anyfink' instead of 'anything' in conversation - and is a common sign of the poorly educated.

            "because there is an old old Engineering saying (probably pre-dates Brunell)

            'If it ain't broke; don't fix it'"

            There is no reference to that in this case - my money is on ignorance of the correct use of English.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

              "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

              http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it.html

        4. peter_dtm
          Black Helicopters

          Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

          because there is an old old Engineering saying (probably pre-dates Brunell)

          'If it ain't broke; don't fix it'

          which is fully understood by Engineers to be an ironinc play on English (and the 'ain't' construct).

          But then Engineers tend to be clever people; wot can speak english proper like what they was taughted to when having to deal with non-Engineers; and can recognise an old chestnut when they see it as well !

      2. joed

        Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

        if all you needed were virtual desktops then just download virtuialwin (works under 7 and 8) and forget about upgrade. Initial configuration of Virtualwin was not the easiest but now it just works (and functionality exceeds what W10 had to offer) and like with most non MS programs you just copy its Appdata folder to replicate settings onto other systems.

    2. Malcolm 1

      Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

      Although it's rarely mentioned, the under-the-hood enhancements make Windows 8 (and therefore presumably 10, although I've not tried it) a noticeably more responsive experience than Windows 7.

      I miss the small desktop enhancements such as the improved task manager and file explorer ribbon when using windows 7 too.

      1. Khaptain Silver badge

        Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

        @Malcolm

        I do not know many people that consider W7 as being Non-Responsive. Those under the hood enhancements are indeed welcome but they will not interest JoePublic, they are far more interesting to the IT crowd.

        Personally I can't really see what advantage I will obtain from 10 over 7. Personaly I am almost finished moving to a complete Linux environment but I have to keep up with MS for professional reasons. Windows 10 will not have enough on offer to sway my decision.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

      Has Flip 3D come back from the dead? I actually found it useful but didn't realise till it was gone in Windows 8.

    4. YARR

      Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

      Re. "... it just looks like W7 with a flat theme."

      I concur with your opinion about the flat theme, but did you notice that the task bar in W10 retains Aero transparency? If the graphics card is being used for transparency effects then it could be enabled for all windows at negligible performance / power cost. The reason they removed Aero for W8 was because the older GPUs in the tablets back then either weren't capable, or drained too much battery doing so. I believe the current generation of mobile GPUs can handle Aero with ease.

      1. El Andy

        Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

        "but did you notice that the task bar in W10 retains Aero transparency"

        It has a subtle transparency effect, but it's much more lightweight than Aero Glass, doesn't need the complex text drawing effect needed on Aero title bars and also doesn't get more intrusive as more windows open (since it's a fixed area of the display).

        Although why anyone wants Aero, with its hard to read title bars and problems identifying the active window, is beyond me.

    5. Cryo

      Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

      "But on the whole it just looks like W7 with a flat theme. (This flat scheme and colours thing is really off-putting and really not encouraging)."

      This probably isn't the final theme. I imagine that they'll want it to look at least a little more different from Windows 8 to help distance it from that release. Perhaps there will be a new look ready to show off by the consumer preview in the spring.

      1. Chika

        Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

        "This probably isn't the final theme. I imagine that they'll want it to look at least a little more different from Windows 8 to help distance it from that release. Perhaps there will be a new look ready to show off by the consumer preview in the spring."

        I really hope so. My own theory (never been sure how true it was) is that Aero was sacrificed due to its resource footprint and possibly because the people programming the OS couldn't get on with it anyway. While some of that might be false (no doubt), the eventual outcome in my view was something that looked more like Windows 3 than anything else. And I wasn't W3's biggest fan. In fact, an even closer match was RISC OS back when it was 2D only but with some crippling extra bits that never troubled an Acorn user because Acorn were a lot better at handling the nuances of intuitive UI design.

        IMHO that's the biggest hurdle that Microsoft face right now, even if the UI remains bug-ugly. They need to restore some of the intuitiveness that prior developers worked to bring to the mess that Windows was in its early days. Windows 7 wasn't perfect but it was a damn sight better than some of its predecessors. The W8 came along and killed it.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

      "it shows that MS have almost nothing new that will stir up new media frenzy..."

      It's Alpha code with only ~ 10% of new features fully added. Rather early to make that call...

      1. RyokuMas
        Facepalm

        Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

        "Rather early to make that call..."

        For some on here, it's never too early to take a swing at Microsoft, regardless of how good, bad or ugly what they're doing is.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Windows

          Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

          it's never too early to take a swing at Microsoft

          Correct.

          Seriously, though, are you suggesting MS should be praised with the very little they have done to the OS in the past 2 years since 8 was released?

          Apart from spending billions on a company that they helped destroy, and a kid's game, what have they done with the piles of cash we're repeatedly shovelling to them?

          1. RyokuMas

            Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

            Seriously, though, are you suggesting MS should be praised with the very little they have done to the OS in the past 2 years since 8 was released?

            No. I was merely pointing out that there are more than a few on here who see the name "Microsoft" and immediately start trotting out the same old tired links/lines/whatever.

            Occasionally, when bored, I sift through the past comments of some of the more prolific of these - just to see if there's another Eadon in the making. Some of them make for interesting reading - especially when you start seeing a similar style of post on (say) anything Apple, the astroturfer alarms start going full blast...

            My point is - ridicule Microsoft for doing something stupid (god knows, it happens often enough), not just "because it's Microsoft" - and treat everyone else the same way.

      2. Hans 1
        Joke

        Re: Windows 7 with a flat theme

        >It's Alpha code with only ~ 10% of new features fully added. Rather early to make that call...

        You mean pre-Alpha, when it reaches alpha quality it gets released to manufacturing.

  2. monkeyfish

    The modern calc (or a note taking app) could actually be useful if they let it dock to the side, and use the width afforded by wide-screen monitors. Little details like that would make for nice features in a tablet too. It's annoying to have to constantly switch apps just to use something simple like a calculator. I'm aware that Samsung allow this on their tablets, but if baked into win10 it would almost be a USP.

    1. h4rm0ny

      >>"The modern calc (or a note taking app) could actually be useful if they let it dock to the side, and use the width afforded by wide-screen monitors"

      I do that in Windows 8 currently - dock a Metro app on one quarter of the screen and have the Desktop in the rest. It works really nicely for Skype or other programs. I don't know if I'll still be able to do that in the new version. It sounds like MS are giving in to complaints and backtracking on most of the things I like about the UI in Windows 8.

    2. El Andy

      You can do that in Windows 8, it's a brilliant feature. I almost always have multiple apps open on my Surface 2, as it's a really nice way of multitasking on a touch device without the awkwardness of trying to drag windows around.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    After playing with it for an hour..

    Windows 10 = Windows 8 with a Start Menu. And Multiple Desktops.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: After playing with it for an hour..

      Windows 10 = Windows 8 with a Start Menu. And Multiple Desktops.

      Or.. Windows 7 with a Windows 8 theme.

      Or.. Windows 8 with Start8 or some other add on.

      Or.. Even a Linux with a Windows 8 theme.

      It really doesn't matter what OS you use nowadays, unless you're a fanboy or require "legacy software".

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: After playing with it for an hour..

        It really doesn't matter what OS you use nowadays, unless you're a fanboy or require "legacy software".

        If by "legacy software" you mean software that runs on a platform other than the one you personally prefer, then yes, I have some of that...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: After playing with it for an hour..

      "Windows 10 = Windows 8 with a Start Menu. And Multiple Desktops."

      That sounds good to me!

      Just need to know how much this upgrade will cost....

  4. Wensleydale Cheese

    existing products like Windows InTune (which can already manage PCs)

    Windows InTune?

    Surely they had more imagination than to copy the name from iTunes (which can manage iThings).

    Puzzled of Tunbridge Wells

    1. Irongut

      Re: existing products like Windows InTune (which can already manage PCs)

      No it is InTune as in let me tune your PC so it works better. Muppet.

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: existing products like Windows InTune (which can already manage PCs)

        I thought it was InTune, as in let me "tune up" your PC...in the New York cop sense.

      2. Wensleydale Cheese

        Re: existing products like Windows InTune (which can already manage PCs)

        "No it is InTune as in let me tune your PC so it works better. Muppet."

        Never heard of it.

        Judging by the downvotes I seem to have hit a nerve.

  5. Phoenix50

    Moving apps

    I believe you can right click on an app and choose "move > [desktop]" when you're switching between multiple desktops; and drag and drop functionality will come later.

    I don't think it's fair to simply say "Windows 10 = Windows 8 with a Start Menu. And Multiple Desktops" - even if you ignore the current slew of changes (subtle and obvious) the build is in it's infancy. Mary J Foley reported that Microsoft said the current build has only 10% of new features in it.

    If I were an average consumer shopping for a computer to replace my current one on 7 or 8, and I walked into a Shop and saw "Windows 10" - I would instinctively feel as though it was a much newer version that my current PC - and would want it more. It's a shrewd move by MS that might pay off in the consumer space.

    1. Arctic fox
      Windows

      @Phoenix50 Re: Moving apps

      "Mary J Foley reported that Microsoft said the current build has only 10% of new features in it."

      Indeed. Redmond have said openly that this is only (at this stage) a portion of the final *construction" and expecting (as some apparently do - or pretend to) that this or that should be present now if not sooner, is disingenuous to say the least. I have just started to test this build and I do not remotely claim that I yet have any (for or against) conclusions. So far it appears to be impressively stable (for a pre-beta) and is chundering away happily without causing me any grief. How this develops and to what extent Redmond will in reality listen to those giving feedback remains to be seen. It is far too early to draw any conclusions.

    2. Kepler
      Headmaster

      "a much newer version"

      "If I were an average consumer shopping for a computer to replace my current one on 7 or 8, and I walked into a Shop and saw "Windows 10" - I would instinctively feel as though it was a much newer version that my current PC - and would want it more. It's a shrewd move by MS that might pay off in the consumer space."

      Still no excuse for the idiocy of calling it "10" instead of "9".

      What's that you say? It's a generational improvement this time rather than a merely incremental one?* That's what incrementing the number to the left of the decimal point is for! By one. You don't increment it by two unless it's actually somehow two generations' worth of improvement.

      The dweebs at Microsoft don't even know basic English. ("Cloud first, mobile first." Yeah, and everyone's above average.)

      .

      * See:

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/30/microsoft_windows_10/

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/01/will_corporates_go_for_windows_10/

    3. P. Lee
      Coat

      Re: Moving apps

      Yeah, you can right-click on the titlebar or taskbar icon and use: "Move to desktop->All/Specific"

      Oh wait, I'm in KDE.

      Sorry.

  6. Buzzword

    Docking

    I find half-screen docks incredibly useful; in fact when I was forced to use Windows XP for a while (after having become accustomed to 7), the first thing I did was install a tool to enable left/right docking. I'm very much looking forward to corner docking becoming a standard feature too.

    1. Dr. Mouse

      Re: Docking

      I find half-screen docks incredibly useful

      I have to say that I do too. I used to do the same by minimising all but 2 windows and doing "tile windows".

      The only annoying thing in Windows 7 comes with multiple monitors. You can't seem* to dock a windows to the edge of a monitor which has another monitor next to it.

      * At least I haven't found a way.

      1. MatthewSt

        Re: Docking

        Today's your lucky day!

        Use the Windows key and left/right arrow keys to dock windows to the edges of monitors and (if you keep pressing them) between monitors

        1. Anonymous Bullard

          Re: Docking

          Use the Windows key and left/right arrow keys to dock windows to the edges of monitors and (if you keep pressing them) between monitors

          You can move between monitors if you also hold shift. I've just doubled your productivity.

        2. Radelix

          Re: Docking

          You sir, yes you...I owe you one beer!

      2. Thecowking

        Re: Docking

        Select the window you want, press the windows key and left or right as appropriate.

        I was happy when I discovered that.

        1. Thecowking

          Re: Docking

          Damn you elinks, you're making me look slow.

          *mental note to refresh pages before posting*

          1. Dr. Mouse

            Re: Docking

            Great stuff, thanks all who posted the Win-L/R, that works great! :-D

      3. bluesxman

        Re: Docking

        Press WinKey and Left/Right cursor to move a Window about from half to half. I don't know of a mouse equivalent.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Does Windows 10 actuall shut down when you click shutdown?

    Or does it still only hibernate?

    1. Vociferous

      Re: Does Windows 10 actuall shut down when you click shutdown?

      It would surprise me if WinX actually shuts down (or closes programs instead of just hiding them when you click close), as "never shut anything down" was a feature of Win8 that people liked.

      1. Irongut

        Re: Does Windows 10 actuall shut down when you click shutdown?

        Who are these "people" and do you have a list of their addresses? I need to round them up so they don't fuck up this version as well.

        1. Vociferous

          Re: Does Windows 10 actuall shut down when you click shutdown?

          >Who are these "people"

          Look at the comments. Every commenter who say words to the effect that they liked how Win8 booted quickly and started applications quickly are really saying that they like the "never shut anything down" feature. Sure it's trickery, but people interpret it as Win8 being quicker.

    2. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: Does Windows 10 actuall shut down when you click shutdown?

      I'm pretty sure my Win8 machine shuts right down when I tell it to. It certainly does a good impression of being off.

      1. Tom 35

        Re: Does Windows 10 actuall shut down when you click shutdown?

        You have to turn off fast start if you want it to turn OFF off, and not something more like hibernate.

    3. Boothy

      Re: Does Windows 10 actuall shut down when you click shutdown?

      It shuts down, at least my VM fully exits after close down.

    4. Uffe Seerup

      Shutdown is by default a mix between shutdown and hibernate

      It is the *kernel* that hibernates. All user programs and user sessions are terminated.

      When you show down, Windows sends shutdown signals to all user processes in all user sessions. The kernel and services in session 0 (including device drivers) are hibernated, i.e. the state is written to disk.

      Upon start, Windows will check that the hw signature of the machine (ntdetect) is still the same, and if so it will read the state from disk rather than go through a full boot process.

      If the drivers are up to it, you should not see any effect from this apart from the (much) faster booting.

      1. ben_myers

        Re: Shutdown is by default a mix between shutdown and hibernate

        As someone who services computers, it irks me no end when somebody brings me a laptop that is not completely shut down. Wastes my time.

        As for "fast start", I do not know why years ago Windows simply did not write out a hibernation image to be used to restart the computer again when powered up. And then, if the hardware has somehow changed, Windows could simply poll the added hardware installing drivers along the way. But, then, my thinking is way too simplistic for the Redmond geniuses. Whatever they could do to complicate Windows on the inside, they have done. And it finally caught up with them with the dreadful Windows 8.

  8. DJV Silver badge
    FAIL

    What I want to know is...

    ...why the hell have they reduced the window borders down to almost nothing? It makes resizing much more of a chore and it's way too easy to miss where one window starts and another ends! Another design "feature" that hinders more than it helps!

    1. DJV Silver badge

      Re: What I want to know is...

      Of course, it goes without saying, that the registry hacks that would previously allow the border size to be adjusted in Win 7 or 8 no longer work! Sigh...

      1. Martin-73 Silver badge

        Re: What I want to know is...

        Any news on whether that repulsive looking theme can be changed? It looks like Gem Desktop ffs!

    2. Michael Maxwell

      Re: What I want to know is...

      About the borders: Amen, brother! At work I (have to) use MsOffice 2014. What a piece of junk. Among all its other problems is the borders. They're apparently only one pixel wide, making it frustratingly hard to find them so you can expand/contract an OfficeApp. I suppose this was done in the name of saving screen real estate, but really: a couple pixels?

      One of the other frustrating things about Office2014 is the color scheme. The header, which in most apps turns gray if that app doesn't have keyboard focus, undergoes no color change in Office2014, making it impossible--yes, I do mean impossible--to tell whether the next keystroke you type will affect that Office app.

      1. DJV Silver badge
        Unhappy

        @Michael Maxwell

        OMG! I pity you.

        Sigh. I wonder what ever happened to usability tests?

        Glad I use an Office alternative here.

  9. Rallicat

    Windows 10 is partly a rebranding exercise. The original plan was always that there would be a "Windows 8.2", but with too many users (business especially) steering clear, it was obvious what needed to happen: Add back the start menu, and make Store-Apps run on the desktop (like with 'ModernMix' from Stardock).

    As such, calling it a 'new version' of Windows is primarily all about sending a clear signal that this is a different beast from Windows 8. Critics might point out that there's little new here, but why shouldn't the guys in charge of Windows now put their own stamp on it? Steven Sinofsky is long gone, and these guys are putting together what Windows 8 /should/ have been from the beginning, so yeah - this is a good thing.

    1. Mage Silver badge

      what Windows 8 /should/ have been

      I seriously doubt that.

      1. Kepler
        Coat

        Re: what Windows 8 /should/ have been

        Rallicat:

        "[T]hese guys are putting together what Windows 8 /should/ have been from the beginning . . . ."

        Mage:

        "I seriously doubt that."

        Then how about . . . what Windows Vista should have been?

    2. phil dude
      Joke

      I read this...

      Internal rumours are that early testing revealed just how many third party products that had code of the form:

      if (version.StartsWith("Windows 9")) {

      /* 95 and 98 */

      } else {

      }

      P.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge
        Unhappy

        "if (version.StartsWith("Windows 9")) {"

        It has the ring of truth about it. Using GetVersion() would be more obvious, much faster and incomparably more reliable, so I'm not in the least surprised by the assertion that the unwashed hordes spent the time looking for a slow and flaky alternative.

        So much software seems to have been written by people with this mindset...

        1. Someone Else Silver badge
          Holmes

          @Ken Hagan

          So much software seems to have beencontinues to be written by people with this mindset...

          There, FTFY

    3. Kepler
      Facepalm

      "sending a clear signal that this is a different beast from Windows 8"

      You've made a good case for calling it "Windows 9" instead of "Windows 8.2", Rallicat, but there's still no justification for calling it "Windows 10".

  10. Anonymous Bullard
    Meh

    Announced now, and to be released late next year? Well, that wont do the poor sales of W8 any good.

    I've tried it, and there's nothing to entice me back to Windows, I'm afraid... and these "improvements" should have been an update!

  11. Slions

    What about skinning?

    Can you use themes in the whole OS à la Visual Studio 2012-2013?

    Can we eventually have a dark themed UI in the whole OS?

    Now that would awesome.

    1. Anonymous Bullard

      Re: What about skinning?

      Oh god no, not a UI like VS2012.

      1. Slions

        Re: What about skinning?

        I'm just asking for the skinning capabilities...

        1. Someone Else Silver badge
          WTF?

          Re: What about skinning?

          Well, perhaps you could go into the Personalize menu and set up the environment colored just the way you like....

          What's that, you say? You can't be arsed to learn how to configure your system? Sux to be you, I guess.

  12. thondwe

    Technical Preview for Enterprise

    Noted the screenshot shows "technical preview", but actually there's also a technical preview for enterprise and the blurb that goes with that rabbits on about the Enterprise Advantages...

  13. Natalie Gritpants

    Could we have some screenshots on a widescreen monitor

    Can you have the taskbar on the side?

    1. peter_dtm
      Flame

      Re: Could we have some screenshots on a widescreen monitor

      well of course you can

      You've been able to put the task bar on any edge since W95

      the fact that most WIndows programs & WIndows OSs can't cope with it is the fault of the user not the naff programming by Windows OS devs

      Of course; with wide monitors it is obvious that no one would want to move Application menus to one side or the other as well I mean; look at all that height you have to fill up with ribbons & stuff

      what;; you wanted useful stuff for users from Redmond ?

  14. MrRtd

    I tried out Windows 10 yesterday for a few hours. Aesthetically, it quite boring. Just more flat square blandness (I feel that Win7 was prettier). It was nice to unpin all the Tiles from the start menu, which is a huge improvement over Win8 start screen.

    What I don't really like is the requirement of having an online Microsoft account and the defaults are a concern in relation to privacy. I especially hate the "Not recommended" suggestions Microsoft displays when turning off online connectivity for various apps. Then to uninstall pre-installed apps, you wont find them in the usual place (Programs section of the Control Panel), rather you need to go to PC Settings, Search and apps, App sizes. Maybe this will change, but for now it appears somewhat disorganized.

    Overall I'm not really that impressed, the default pushes all things "cloudy", which to may appeal to some but not so much for anyone valuing privacy.

    1. Boothy

      Quote: "What I don't really like is the requirement of having an online Microsoft account..."

      With you on that one, not even a skip option, just Login to existing, or create new.

      I really done like using an email address as a Windows login in!

      1. Tom 35

        not even a skip option

        There is a skip option, but it's kind of hidden. Click create new, then there is a skip option.

        Of course you will now get pestered for your windows account when you click on some stuff like the store, or onedrive...

      2. Frank N. Stein

        This is one of the things I never liked about Windows 8. I figured out how to create a local account and just ignored Microsoft's urging to use my Microsoft account just to locally log into the PC I built and own.

    2. Vociferous

      > the requirement of having an online Microsoft account

      And just like that, WinX ceased being a possible future option for me.

      1. Radelix

        So you clicked express settings during the setup rather than customize and turning it all off. And there is an option to create a local account only.

    3. Uffe Seerup

      > What I don't really like is the requirement of having an online Microsoft account

      There is no such requirement. In fact, I tried to set it up on a Surface Pro 3 (mistake) - but because it doesn't come with drivers for the SP3 (no Internet connection during install) I had *only* the local account.

      But even if you *do* have a network, the Microsoft account is still optional.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        the Microsoft account is still optional.

        But you do have to try hard to proceed without one, and be aware that it is optional.

  15. Hargrove

    Don't hold your breath

    . . . where is the document that explains its business advantages? Microsoft has mentioned a couple: . . . How does all this work. . . No details yet.

    Ever since software developers discovered they could use their automated design documentation tools to generate something resembling user documentation, users have gotten the short end of the stick. There was a cartoon floating around a few years back that satirized this brilliantly. It showed a helicopter lost above a fog bank hovering outside the window of a Microsoft office building. The passenger in the helo is holding as sign reading "Where are we?" The Microsoft folks are holding up a sign reading, "In a helicopter."

    One of my personal pet peeves is that when I have a problem, the fix generally requires that I drill down five steps in some menu. Step one in any documentation I can ever find either no longer exists, or is now hidden under another name, in a different menu, which is accessed (as any fool should plainly know) by clicking on -shift-ctrl-alt-F-U, whilst simultaneously holding down the "windows" key (What, you don't have a MS Keyboard? Clearly you aren't serious about your work), and standing on your head stacking greased bb's in a straw.

    (Apple lovers, don't feel smug. Despite its head start, MS still failed to achieve the level of user-indifference of the update to my i-Pad 7 OS that--with no notice--completely changed the look and feel of the interface, replacing a number of point and click functions with a set of gestures. Here's a gesture for you . . . but I digress.)

    Don't expect this to change. Developing effective user documentation is a resource-intensive activity that no one--including the user--is willing to pay for.

  16. Stevie

    Bah!

    "Live apps"

    So I must have a persistent internet connection to use this abortion?

    Nope. I hate the tiles because they use up real estate to no useful effect on my laptop. McAffee is now a thing of the past largely because their shift from a tabbed page of controls to a bedsheet of uninformative tiles jarred me out of the laziness I'd been suffering from the last time the sub came up for renewal.

    I think this is the inflection point that makes Linux worth the hassle.

    1. Chemist

      Re: Bah!

      "I think this is the inflection point that makes Linux worth the hassle."

      What hassle ? ( i7 laptop, CeleronM laptop, Atom netbook, dual-core Atom fileserver, dual core AMD desktop, dual Core Intel desktop) That's my current line-up in a LONG list back to 1995. All current machines using OpenSUSE 13.1

      1. Stevie

        Re: Bah!

        Jeeze, it's like listening to stereo twonks back in the 1970s rave about wow, flutter and rumble.

        It will be a hassle because I use many, many, many, applications every day that do not appear as yet to have Linux versions or "equivalents"* to do things I care about.

        Which you could have figured out for yourself in a trice if you were half as clever as you believe yourself to be.

        It might interest you to know (but probably won't as it will involve the sound of a rapidly deflating windbag) that I maintain a bunch of Unix servers for a living and understand how they work, mostly.

        "Computers are tools. So are some of the people using them."

        * Which anyone who has taken one out for a drive will know usually encompasses definition of equivalent" that covers only basic functions obvious to an IT bod rather than those a business specialist will need.

        1. Chemist

          Re: Bah!

          "It will be a hassle because I use many, many, many, applications every day that do not appear as yet to have Linux versions"

          So it's not a hassle - its an impossibility is what you should have said - if you can't manage without a certain program or programs you're stuffed.

          Somehow I seem to have to have missed the need for anything I can't find for Linux, sure I've had to adjust but given all the scientific software I've used was generally written for Unix/Linux and that all my other interests ( photography, still and video, programming, electronics) can be well satisfied by programs available for Linux (plus all the usual requirements of browsers/e-mail clients/spreadsheets etc).

          If you have a specific need (Autocad) for example then you have no real option, I guess.

    2. El Andy

      Re: Bah!

      Live Tiles are just icons with built in notification support, which may come from the internet or directly from the local app itself. And if you don't like the notification part you can switch it off either globally or on a tile by tile basis, functionally turning them back into plain old icons.

      Quite what all the endless fuss and complaining about them is I truly fail to see.

      1. Kepler
        Coat

        Why SOME people do not like Live Tiles

        "Live Tiles are just icons with built in notification support, which may come from the internet or directly from the local app itself. And if you don't like the notification part you can switch it off either globally or on a tile by tile basis, functionally turning them back into plain old icons.

        Quite what all the endless fuss and complaining about them is I truly fail to see."

        They take up too much space,* and are far too demanding of out attention. Even when notifications have been turned off so they do not move. Visually they shout.

        If one had the option to place them on the desktop instead of on a menu (whether full-screen or pop-up), they would be far less intrusive. Those who don't like them would be far less bothered by them there than on a menu (and would be further pleased by having the option to be rid of them altogether!), those who do like them would still be able to use them — and to place them anywhere they like (Start Screen, Start Menu, desktop, or all three!), and *I* might even start using them!

        .

        * On the Start Screen this is not really a problem, but on the Start Menu it is. Their presence in any significant number requires that the Start Menu be made gigantic, so that it will cover nearly all one's work when it opens. Just as the Start Screen hides one's work altogether.

        And on the Start Menu they dwarf, and thereby tend to eclipse, all ordinary icons and their labels.

      2. Stevie

        Re: Live Tiles are just icons

        Hucking fuge icons that take up acres of screen real estate for no useful purpose on a device *NOT* using a tiny touch sensitive screen and a fat finger as its primary input peripheral.

        They are also butt-ugly, too big, unwanted, too big and butt-ugly. They add no functionality over the standard icon or the cascaded menu item (my own preferred way of digging stuff out of the machine) on any device which can provide the mechanism to unfold the menu.

        Tiles work for fingers on screens. They are, even then, too big and butt-ugly, but at least there they serve a useful purpose. They serve no such purpose on a conventional keyboard/mouse/screen computer and I SHOULDN"T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEM IF I DON'T WANT TO IN THIS F*CKING DAY AND AGE FOR F*CK'S SAKE!

        Have a shouty too. >Bo@

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Live Tiles are just icons

          Their sole purpose is to make you think: "damn, I wish I had a touch screen so I could use my finger to press that tile - it's way too big for my poor little mouse cursor"

  17. ecarlseen

    We'll see what's in there when it launches

    Microsoft has an inglorious history of promising the moon and then triaging out major features prior to launch as they discover that they've bitten off orders of magnitude more than they could chew. Remember that object-based file system we were supposed to get in Vista? What about dumping the old Win32 API and forcing everything to .NET (more APIs = more bloat, more places for vulnerabilities to live)? Heck, Windows 7 / Server 2008 just got around to dumping the last remnants of the Win16 API. I could go on and on and on.

    1. picturethis

      Re: We'll see what's in there when it launches

      Well, you mean they haven't promised WinFS yet? For shame

    2. Sandtitz Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: We'll see what's in there when it launches @ecariseen

      "Heck, Windows 7 / Server 2008 just got around to dumping the last remnants of the Win16 API"

      No they didn't. It's the 64-bit editions of Windows that have never supported 16-bit Windows applications, starting with XP/2003 x64.

      The 32-bit Windows 7/8.1 still supports 16-bit Windows software albeit with some limitations (e.g. no full screen text mode, no WinG and possibly other APIs).

      My previous laptop had 32-bit Windows 8.1 and Civilization 1 for Windows 3.1 worked much, much better than 20 years ago in real Win 3.1 - no constant crashes, and of course a FullHD resolution shows lot more world map than my puny SVGA did!

  18. Tom 35

    No more need for your hotmail account?

    "Organizations can now use their existing AD, federated in the cloud with Azure AD, to do everything they need. No Microsoft Account needed."

    That would be nice (if they can get it past MS marketing).

  19. Old Handle
    Devil

    That does sound notably less horrible. Perhaps the biggest remaining problem is that if TIFKAM apps are supposed to be so great, there needs to be a way to install them without going through Microsoft or begging for their permission and still having to do a bunch of intentionally user-unfriendly fiddling.

  20. damworker

    2015 will be the year of Linux on the desktop.

    This time, for sure.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 2015 will be the year of Linux on the desktop.

      The desktop is dead. The OS is irrelevant.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: 2015 will be the year of Linux on the desktop.

        I detect postmodernism in all its gory.

    2. Wensleydale Cheese

      Re: 2015 will be the year of Linux on the desktop.

      "This time, for sure."

      This time next year Rodders.

      Fixed that for you.

      A viable alternative for those who really need apps only available on Windows is to stick Windows in a virtual machine.

  21. Kubla Cant
    Unhappy

    Windows Store

    I spend an inordinate amount of time commuting by train. On the journey home, suffering from a kind of burn-out, I occasionally like to get out my Win7 laptop and play a few games of Freecell or Hearts.

    The other day I tried to find these in Win8.1. The Games tile just directed me to the Windows Store (luckily I wasn't on a train, or that would have been the end of things). I found the games I wanted and installed them.

    Bleah! Hideous graphics and intrusive flashing ads. Kill it!

    If this is Micosoft's vision of the future, they can crank their Windows version number up to 999 for all I care - I won't be buying. Have they done this with all the applications that used to ship with Windows?

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: Windows Store

      Version 666 surely?

      You are holding it wrong.

  22. kimalcorp

    Let's Hope for Truth and Accuracy this time

    All the hype sounds good, and will be of benefit to the "enterprise" - if "true and accurate".

    However, Microsoft has "never" delivered on it's hype and propaganda, and one can only hope that the company, this time under Satya Nadella , will deliver some reality and be honest and accurate in features and functions stated.

    Plus, no more attempting to isolate RedHat Eterprise Linux and other Free/Open Source Software (FOSS), e.g. Hadoop, etc, on which the company heavily depends to satisfy it's clients.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Do they still...

    ...hide known file extensions by default? (DON'T)

    ...leave Autorun as a valid option? (DON'T)

    ...let you enable and Disable Aero Glass at will? (DO)

    ...let you resize icons text label, icons spacing both on vertical or horizontal? (DO)

    ...lock window frames at exactly one-pixel wide? (DON'T)

    ...when booting in safe mode, mangle the position of all your icons, as you get back to full resolution normal boot? (DON'T).

    ...make you pray to all $deities, from all religions, when alt-tabbing to and from any fullscreen Directx 'Application', hoping that you will be able to return to it?

    Inquiring minds...

    1. DJV Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Do they still...

      Having played with it, I think it's fair to say you will be disappointed in the answers to your questions...

  24. Inachu

    Instead of "Hey 19" by Steely Dan it should be "Hey Windows 10"

    No we got nothing in common. Sure looks good. Turn off a little faster now.

  25. thames

    Anyone Running it in Virtualbox?

    Does anyone have this running in Virtualbox yet? I just tried to get it to run, but no luck. It starts up and then craps out with a not very helpful Windows error message which just gives me some hex error codes and says that I need to restart the computer.

    I tried using the same VM settings that I used for a working Windows 8.1 VM, except I had to specify a generic 64 bit Windows (since there's no menu selection for 10).

    I'm trying to run this on Ubuntu 14.04 64 bit, so that's VB 4.3.10.

    I could stick a spare hard drive in the PC and try installing it on the bare hardware, but I'm not sure I really want to bother with that much effort. I'm mainly just curious and want to poke around and perhaps test some software on it.

    1. Radelix

      Re: Anyone Running it in Virtualbox?

      use windows 8.1, not generic x64

      1. thames

        Re: Anyone Running it in Virtualbox?

        Thanks, that worked. I thought I had tried setting it to 8.1 already and VB rejected it (inconsistent setting or some such nonsense), but when I tried it again (at your suggestion) it worked. Obviously, I did something wrong the first time.

        First impressions: It's not as bad as Windows 8. In fact, I suspect that Windows 7 users will get used to it pretty quickly.

        There is an interesting inconsistency in the version reporting. If I use "ver" in a command terminal, it says "Microsoft Windows [6.4.9841]. However, if I query the version using Python platform.platform() (one of the first things I did was to install Python), it says its Windows 8 version 6.2.9200. So, it's identifying itself as Windows 8 (I assume so that applications don't have a fit yet), but as version 6.2 in one case, but 6.4 in another.

        I used IE to download Firefox, and I got a quick reminder of just how bad Bing is. Searching for Firefox using Bing (which Microsoft really, really tries to make you use) throws up a bunch of links to various dodgy, spammy, download sites as the first set of choices (I gave up scrolling down after a bit). Searching for Firefox with Google takes me straight to the proper URL on the first link.

        The Windows 10 installer isn't too bad. However, a major complaint is that they try really hard to make you sign up for a "Microsoft Account", including getting their greasy little mitts on your email address. If you struggle with it long enough though, you will eventually find a way to bypass that and just install it without one.

        It seemed to be a bit of a memory hog even with no applications running, but I will reserve judgment on that until I can look into it further.

        All in all, on first sight enterprise users will probably be happy, assuming the admin spends time configuring it properly (out of the box is a problem though). For home users, the installation is pretty user hostile in that data collection is turned up to max (they seem to want to know everything about you, including a photograph of you) and turning all that off takes more effort and thinking than most people will want to put into it. That's not exactly new though, as I seem to recall going through the same effort when I tried out the Windows 8 preview.

        1. Sandtitz Silver badge

          Re: Anyone Running it in Virtualbox?

          "Searching for Firefox using Bing (which Microsoft really, really tries to make you use) throws up a bunch of links to various dodgy, spammy, download sites as the first set of choices"

          Bing is shite, but it's not that shite.

          Binging for Firefox has rather similar first 10 results than Googe does.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Anyone Running it in Virtualbox?

          "I used IE to download Firefox, and I got a quick reminder of just how bad Bing is. Searching for Firefox using Bing (which Microsoft really, really tries to make you use) throws up a bunch of links to various dodgy, spammy, download sites as the first set of choices (I gave up scrolling down after a bit). Searching for Firefox with Google takes me straight to the proper URL on the first link."

          For me Google & DuckDuckGo gave the link first. Bing gave the wiki link first then the download link second.

          I searched in that sequence, so if they collect/interrogate each others info then this could affect the outcomes

    2. Wensleydale Cheese
      Go

      Re: Anyone Running it in Virtualbox?

      "I'm trying to run this on Ubuntu 14.04 64 bit, so that's VB 4.3.10."

      VBox 4.3.16 is current.

      4-5 years ago when I started using VBox useful new features were arriving with each release so I stopped using the versions provided by the software distribution streams from Ubuntu / RedHat / openSUSE and went with the downloads straight from the VBox site.

      Yes there were difficulties recompiling bits of kernel with some releases at first but I haven't had to do that for ages.

  26. Nanners
    Windows

    The problem with windows

    You lost me in the first paragraph.

  27. Frank N. Stein

    Control freak network administrators will like the whole "Windows Azure Login" thing. Microsoft will have to come up with more than that to win back business customers. Company's I've worked for since Windows 8 launched, have avoided it like the plague. Windows 10 will have to be better to win business and consumers back. We shall see.

  28. Doug Bostrom

    Decisive move to confusion.

    From fail to flail, on the count of two.

    Maybe the preview is premature.

  29. Shannon Jacobs
    Holmes

    Can't blame an early beta for losing a blog, eh?

    So what's the google's excuse? I'm just getting tired of the race to be as EVIL as possible.

    Google's current motto: "All of your attentions is belonging to us!"

  30. poopypants

    Caution!

    "...a single Windows Store including desktop and corporate apps as well as public apps"

    Why would anyone release a desktop app into the Windows Store where it attracts something like a 30% fee from Microsoft?

    ANSWER: The only reason anyone would do that would be if they had no choice, or Microsoft decided to make an exception and not charge store fees for desktop apps. Which do you think is more likely?

    What will this mean for PC gamers?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Caution!

      Why would anyone release a desktop app into the Windows Store where it attracts something like a 30% fee from Microsoft?

      Oh it's crazy, isn't it? And while you can still get software from outside the store (for now!), there will be a large number of people only looking in the store for their wares in the future.

      I mean, the desktop is already struggling against the web... yet Microsoft, the king of the desktop (in terms of popularity) are doing everything they can to destroy their castle by not only making it into a tablet, but also wanting a significant chunk of our income for us enduring it.

      Charge for the OS, or the apps - but not both, you greedy sods! Our desktop apps are now on a feature freeze, and we're concentrating on web and/or mobile. Pigs get fatter, hogs get slaughtered.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Caution!

      "Why would anyone release a desktop app into the Windows Store where it attracts something like a 30% fee from Microsoft?"

      Presumably for the same reasons that they release them to the Apple or Google stores - they can still make a profit.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Caution!

        The number of sales on the WP store are minuscule compared to iTune or Play stores, in our experience.

  31. Kepler
    Windows

    Live tiles on the desktop?

    The caption to one of the photos speaks of "live tiles on the desktop", but nowhere in the discussion or photos does it appear that live tiles actually can be placed on the desktop. On the Start Menu, clearly,* but on the desktop itself?

    I, personally, have zero use for live tiles. However, someone in one of the comment threads on another article, posted about a week ago, suggested that live tiles might be useful on the desktop, and lamented the capability's present and foreseeable absence. It struck me that such was a good idea and something users could benefit from being given the option of.

    (From changing the mode of mouse-menu interaction in the move from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95, to shoving the awful new Metro interface down everyone's throat in Windows 8 (i.e., 8.0), giving users multiple options and then letting them choose for themselves has never been a Microsoft hallmark.)

    Given that live tiles serve a notification function (the whole point of their being "live"!), in addition to serving as oversized menu entries or application-launching icons, the desktop is actually the best and most natural and logical place to place them! (For those who want them in the first place, that is.) So why not place them where users actually reside and do their work, instead of on one or more special menus that have to be specially invoked and opened or switched to? Or rather, allow the user to place them there — if he wants to.

    (I'd be more than happy for them to remain optional on the Start Menu, and for the Start Screen to remain an option as well.)

    .

    * And presumably on the Start Screen as well, which Tim refers to at one point as the Start Menu ("the full-screen Start menu") and says "is off by default". (The Start Menu may go unused, but in no version of Windows (that had a Start menu in the first place) have users ever been able to turn it off altogether, so that it is not even there to be clicked on. That fact plus the adjective "full-screen" make it clear that Tim must have meant the Start Screen, not the Start Menu.)

    1. Dr. Mouse

      Re: Live tiles on the desktop?

      So why not place them where users actually reside and do their work, instead of on one or more special menus that have to be specially invoked and opened or switched to?

      I, personally, see the Start Menu far more often than I see the desktop. The desktop is covered by all my applications (the things where I, and most users, actually "do my work"). The start menu comes out when I need to launch something new. The desktop, on the other hand, is visible for a few moments when I first turn my PC on.

      However, I do agree that having the option is a good idea. I just don't see how that is good in the enterprise, where people are actually doing work.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Those screenshots look like Windows 1.0. Did they just forget to print the decimal point?

    I look forward to seeing how Microsoft have tweaked MSDOS Executive.

  33. ColonelClaw
    Coat

    The burning issue...

    What I want to know is why Microsoft hired someone from Flock of Seagulls to do the intro video.

  34. JimBobMcC

    I likes it all classic UI and no internets

    What is the language like in Windows 10?

    Apart from all the stalkiness of Windows 8 (cloud usage by coercion from ms account, store apps, live tiles etc) I really could not stand the Americanised chit-chat of info messages, such as something along the lines of "Hey there, you might want to plug in AC about right now".

    Under the hood, there are significant performance and security improvements compared to W7 running on the same machine, even with fastboot / hibernation + UEFI turned off.

    Surely they will package W10 Pro without all that marketing crap. I imagine IT admins can turn off all that cloud storage by design / data hoarding in their custom images anyway.

  35. WereWoof
    Windows

    I have been playing around with W10 for a few hours in a Virtual Box VM and Classic Shell works fine with this release, I haven`t done much testing with other software as really I do not use a great deal apart from PSP5 and Open office and a few other minor things. It installed very quickly using defaults (I set up a MS account specifically for this test machine) I am not to keen on the flat look, but then I am not often in the desktop except at start up and shut down and that is what themes are for after all! Frankly I have been much more pleases with the speed of W10 in a virtual machine than i was with VISTA on a bare metal install when that came out. It isn`t as pretty as 98/XP/Vista/7/8 but bear in mind it is not even an alpha release yet so a lot may change, Then again it may not . . . .

  36. nanchatte

    In a typically unbelievable way...

    "Swipe out then back in to create a vertical strip to drop a "Modern" app into...." was the only killer function that W8 had which I miss on any other platform..

    And no, docking a window "don't work" because it the lefthand pane actually caused the desktop to resize, moving all the attendant icons and so on at the same time. Very nifty.

    And now they're telling me it's gone!!!!!111DAFAQ?

  37. mfraz

    Is this WIndows or KDE

    Looks very much like KDE 5 to me.

    1. Hans 1

      Re: Is this WIndows or KDE

      Watch this:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n2dthDSGkc

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