back to article Turn OFF your phone or WE'LL ALL DI... live? Europe OKs mobes, tabs non-stop on flights

If you fancy spending your next European airline flight sitting next to someone who's carrying on a protracted conversation via mobile phone, you're in luck. The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) has issued new guidance to European airlines allowing them to permit passengers to keep phones and other portable electronic …

  1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    The catch, of course, is that passengers in a plane flying at 35,000 feet probably won't be able to connect to GSM towers on the ground, so it will be up to airlines to provide in-flight telecoms services if they're so inclined.

    Oh, I don't know about that. Depends on what kind of power they have and how big the battery is. The problem at 35,000 feet isn't being able talk to a tower but to know which tower to talk to. The maths behind cells assume that most people are on or close to the ground.

    The airlines have known for some years that there are phone radios on on nearly every flight, mostly because people forget to switch them off.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      There is also timing advance to consider

      Not just that - GSM has a top speed at which an object can move towards or from tower. While 3G does not have the equivalent of the timing advance it cannot alter the power fast enough. LTE in theory can, but you have to do some interesting stuff which the a regular phone is incapable of (not all of US plane broadband is satellite, some is LTE with specialized receivers now).

      So with the exemption of a short period after takeoff and before landing (when the airlines are likely to prohibit calls anyway) you cannot use the phone anyway. So anyone yapping on the phone will be yapping via the onboard femtocell and will be paying "ferry" roaming fees for that in the 1-3Eu per minute range.

      It has taken 10 years and lots of lobbying to get there (first test of ip.access 2G BTS on a plane was circa 2003). In fact we finally got there only because the 1Eu per minute has become a great temptation for operators. It is lots of money when you compare it to the backdrop of mandated roaming tariffs.

    2. LarsG

      The Government spokesman stated:

      "Our study has found there is absolutely no correlation between the increase in air rage violence over the past six months and the unlimited use of mobile phones on aircraft.

      We have also found no evidence related to mobile phone use during air travel and the increase in surgery to remove mobile phones from the rectum.

      With regards to the number of passengers randomly falling from the sky, there is no evidence to suggest it is anything but suicide and it is coincidental that a mobile phone was found next to the body in every instance."

      1. Dr Trevor Marshall

        What about the children?

        Indeed, this is one time they do need to think about the children, and those sick amongst us, who will now be cooped up inside a Faraday cage with hundreds of cellphones emitting full power trying to access a working cell-site. What a human disaster in the making.. As if WiFi (at 10,000 times the required power level) was not bad enough...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Feels a bit like the Scottish referendum, only a minority wanted it, the majority did not, and yet we have to bow and scrape, doff our caps and watch the tail wag the dog.

      1. AlbertH

        I got so fed up with morons yelling "I'm On The Train / Bus / Tram etc" that I now carry a small, homemade mobile jammer. It has a range of about 15m, and now I can travel on Public Transport in peace and quiet. it's also useful in meetings, at the cinema or theatre and so on. It's (sort of) antisocial I suppose, but a lot less antisocial than being assailed by the usual racket made by mobe users in public places.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Ditto,

          I don't shit in public because it would annoy people, I think of it as my contribution to something known as common decency. I think that shutting the fuck up for 1 hour wouldn't be so hard for others as their offering to common decency..

          Outside of being either a "moron" or belonging to the "I am so terribly important that I will pretend to be on a business call" crowd, I really don't see the need to be contantly on the fucking phone in public.

          My definition of public space is the train, tram , bus, plane, ie small confined spaces. Someone that I can avoid, ie : walking along the pavement does not bother me at all.

          (Shitting is only an extreme example, I dont spit, talk loudly or blast a fucking walkman, cough apple earbuds cough, in anyone elses face either).

          I don't care if jammers are illegal, I would rather face that charge than the one whereby I literally throttle someone for being a self-centered twunt..

        2. toxicdragon

          @AC It is also illegal as buggery. Best not get caught with that thing.

          Just out of interest say you used it on the bus in a remote location, something happens that means you cant turn it off, what then? Mobile phones may be irritating but considering the upsides, I can tune them out quite easily.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Handheld Jammers have a very small range, between 5m and 10m, they also have a very short battery life. What's the worst that could happen, someone can't make a call for 10mins, no worse than travelling through some tunnels, or into the country.

            Some people are capable of speaking discretely on a telephone, unfortunately the ones you hear on the tram, train bus etc are seldom those ones.....

            1. Martin-73 Silver badge

              What gets me is the fact that the telephone industry solved this in the 1920s, it's the lack of sidetone in a cellular mobile phone that makes people tend to speak loudly. Why don't phone manufacturers work to increase sidetone, thus lowering peoples voices, rather than adding misfeatures?

            2. Dr. Mouse

              What's the worst that could happen, someone can't make a call for 10mins

              That depends entirely on what the phone call is.

              If it's some ****head taking loudly to his mates, fine.

              If there is an emergency (e.g. the bus has crashed on a remote road), that 10 mins could be the difference between injury and death for someone.

              Personally, I would say you are being just as much of a **** as those using their phone. You are imposing your own wishes on everyone else. What about those who want to have a text conversation with someone with their phone on silent? That would have no impact on you, but you are stopping them from doing so.

              Some people just think their own wishes are more important than anyone else's. What society needs is more understanding and consideration from everyone. Your attitude is that 2 wrongs make a right.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                If there is an emergency (e.g. the bus has crashed on a remote road),

                I remember the days before Mobile Phones and the death rates were about the same for bus crashes, only less so caused by drivers talking on them.

            3. MrXavia
              Mushroom

              "What's the worst that could happen"

              Someone has an car accident, can't call an ambulance, people die, person with jammer gets put in jail for manslaughter...

              1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

                Someone has an car accident, can't call an ambulance, people die, person with jammer gets put in jail for manslaughter...

                Yes, and what if that nice fellow from 24 is being jammed and can't call the President to tell him where the zombie terrorists have hidden the Ebola-spreading dirty nukes? THERE IS AN EXCELLENT CHANCE OF THIS HAPPENING.

        3. Throatwobbler Mangrove

          Similarly...

          ...I got so fed up with morons yelling that I now carry a large machete that I wave at people that whose behaviour I don't care for. It has a range of about 25m, and now I can travel on Public Transport in peace and quiet (once the initial screaming has subsided). it's also useful in meetings, at the cinema or theatre and so on. It's (sort of) antisocial I suppose, but a lot less antisocial than being assailed by the usual racket made by people going about their normal lives in public places.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Darwin awards - dwe have a possible winner

          Dear Albert H, Assuming that you got this device on board (and I suppose you only need to show it powering up these days to get past security), you really think that this would be an applicable solution in a commercial aircraft?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Just wait till you get fc*ked by the roaming charges....

      1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        Surely Ryan Air will not pass up the opportunity for another extra charge - £1 to use a mobile phone if ordered when booking ticket, £3 if ordered at check-in, £10 if bought on-board flight.

        1. Khaptain Silver badge

          How about a €20 reduction for those that promise not to use their phone.

          I wonder how long it will take before we see the first picture of a pilot on the phone whilst taking of or landing... Hi darling you'll never guess what I am doing single handedly.

    5. Mark 85

      The "catch"..

      The catch, of course, is that passengers in a plane flying at 35,000 feet probably won't be able to connect to GSM towers on the ground, so it will be up to airlines to provide in-flight telecoms services if they're so inclined and make a nice profit on the fees for connecting similar to charging >$5 (US) for a $1 (US) lukewarm beer.

      There, FTFY.

  2. raving angry loony

    Sadly, we won't be allowed to forcibly defenestrate (de-plane? de-avion? what might the correct term be?) the gabby bastard next to us who thinks that yelling into their phone makes up for the poor connection. I have a problem with this.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's easy to solve. Keep a notepad handy. As soon as the person next to you starts making calls you take notes of their conversation. You can meet any objections with the message that as you don't really have a choice in overhearing the endless waffle you might as well do something with it.

      In addition, be aware that mobile phone mikes are actually reasonably sensitive to noises made within about 2m of the device (the rest is taken out by noise cancelling) so there's all sorts of background noise that you can generate. Expect a large uptake in apps making fart noises...

      1. S4qFBxkFFg
        Thumb Up

        "Expect a large uptake in apps making fart noises..."

        I recommend "Farting Boaby" on Android for this purpose.

        It's also a one-dimensional flight sim...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yet another argument

    For arming all passengers. Hand them a gun when their boarding pass is scanned, collect them when they deplane. Every passenger will be considerate of their neighbors during the flight.

    1. raving angry loony

      Re: Yet another argument

      Sadly, you'd also be arming the gabby bastards who want to shout down the phone. So they'd get to fire back. What we really need is a "trade your phone for a firearm" policy at the boarding gate. THEN we might see some politeness. Even if the "firearm" was just a paintball thrower.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Want a Mile High _Club_?

    So, you can now have that "mandatory" conference call mid air, along with 40 other people doing the same...sounds depressing, yet funny.

    BTW, to my future saddle buddy: My call is more important than yours...wanna fight over it?

    "...although airline crews still have the authority to tell them to switch off."

  5. Anomalous Cowshed

    Yippee!

    "If you fancy spending your next European airline flight sitting next to someone who's carrying on a protracted conversation via mobile phone, you're in luck."

    <LSD>

    At last! Flying was so boring until now. No beeps, no ringtones, no "I'm on a plane". Now it'll be like a bus. It's taken a long time, but you cannot stop progress.

    </LSD>

    This brings to mind something a friend once said to me, relatively unrelated to : What would happen if you accidentally fell over in the aisle of a plane after taking some LSD ?

    Answer: You'd be tripping while tripping on a trip.

  6. Dan 55 Silver badge

    What's changed?

    I thought one of the reasons for turning the phone off or putting it in airplane mode was it confused the network as it tried to connect to several cell towers in quick succession while flying.

    Did it used to be true at one time with older network kit or was it just an old technician's tale?

    1. Timmay

      Re: What's changed?

      I suspect maybe a small portion of the former, but more likely a large helping of the latter.

    2. Adam 1

      Re: What's changed?

      If the cell tower antenna is capturing signal from above and responding in the same direction, they are doing it wrong.

  7. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    Don't get too upset

    Airlines have been trialling this for a while. I was on a BA flight from Heathrow to SFO on Wednesday, and they announced that they had experimental wifi and phone service on board, active above 10,000 feet. They were upfront that it was experimental, might or might not work well, and would like feedback from anyone who tried it.

    They were also quite clear that voice wasn't an option. SMS/MMS/data only, Skype and the like were blocked on the wifi. Any time airlines have surveyed passengers about this, the one clear result is that people don't want to have to listen to "guess where I'm calling you from" for hours on end at 30k feet.

    I can't comment on how well it worked. The wifi to the internal login server worked fine, but I wasn't about to pay 6GBP for an hour of trying to surf the web, and I don't seem to belong to any of the partners that T-Mobile work with for roaming.

    The most useful bit was the announcement that we didn't need to switch tablets and e-readers off during takeoff and landing.

    1. tfewster
      Facepalm

      Re: Don't get too upset

      One of the arguments for switching devices off during takeoff and landing was that passengers should pay attention to aircrew announcements (and not be holding potential projectiles in case of a bump).

      Does paying €1-3 change the laws of physics?

      1. BristolBachelor Gold badge
        Coat

        Re: Don't get too upset

        So these potential projectiles are only a problem if they are electronic and switched on? The same device turned-off is suddenly a not-projectile, and the wooden mini chess set with magetic pieces just doesn't count?

        Which law of physics is that? Must be one of the classes I skipped /

      2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        Re: Don't get too upset

        They still asked us to remove personal headphones during the safety announcement and, amusingly, to keep a firm grip on our devices during takeoff.

    2. Charles 9

      Re: Don't get too upset

      How did they block Skype if someone was tunneling? Did they block tunnels?

      1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

        Re: Don't get too upset

        How did they block Skype if someone was tunneling? Did they block tunnels?

        Taking the physics into account they probably don't have to - the overall latency will pretty much kill voice capability. IMHO this is also why they don't offer any voice calls, there is no way to get VoIP stable on such a circuit and the complaints about quality would pretty much kill off the service and any profit before they'd even got a return on investment. Smart decision.

        1. Charles 9

          Re: Don't get too upset

          I don't know. People are used to the lag with video sat phones seen on newscasts. If they're aware of this, they may peg this as the cost of using their phones on an airplane.

      2. Qu Dawei

        Re: Don't get too upset

        I don't think it is advisable to go tunnelling in a flying plane: after the cargo hold, there's nothing for thousands of feet.

        Alternatively: I don't think many plane routes involve flying through tunnels.

        Finally: Oh, I see what you meant!

    3. Adam 1

      Re: Don't get too upset

      > "guess where I'm calling you from" for hours on end at 30k feet.

      I'm on the plane. Hello? Yeah, the plane. Did you hear me? OK what did you hear up to? I'M … ON … THE … PLANE. No, plane. Yes. Anyway, nearly out of credit. I will call you later.

      /yeah, that would definitely get old quickly.

      1. MrXavia

        Re: Don't get too upset

        ""guess where I'm calling you from" for hours on end at 30k feet."

        I can do that anyway, seat back phones in the flights I usually take... but oddly no pricing information is easy to hand....

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Great.

    Now if we could similarly lift the restriction of mobile phones at petrol pumps we can get the rest of this century going. I'm referring to, of course, the old wives' tale that cellular microwave transmissions can magically start fires in open air. I consider that as absurd as using garlic to stop vampires or pressing the lift button repeatedly.

    1. BristolBachelor Gold badge

      Re: Great.

      It's more likely a consequence of what ham radio/CBer discovered about the new fangled electric petrol pumps. While the mechanical ones just worked (TM), the electric ones forgot how to count if uou held down the press-to-talk key. Yay! free fuel! Eventually, the garages noticed abd put up signs, similarly the pump makers were forced to do a better job.

      The claim of hazardous environment doesn't cut it when they then don't force you to ground your car during filling, the the things like light fittings on the forecourt are not safe for use in hazardous environments either.

      1. Martin-73 Silver badge

        Re: Great.

        Interesting, this makes me wish to purchase a 10watt CB and see what happens if I assidentally leave the PTT jammed on while I'm fuelling*

        *yes, I'll be polite and use an empty channel :)

  9. john devoy

    Air rage will go through the roof if they allow people to use phones as they like.

  10. Someone Else Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Great...just what the world needs...

    Turning an airplane into the world's fasted phone booth!

    1. (AMPC) Anonymous and mostly paranoid coward
      Pint

      Re: Great...just what the world needs...

      hmmm,

      Most interesting, I think the "no-voice" option could be very popular (and civilized), particularly if +35000 ft roaming data charges remain reasonable. Easy in-flight texting and emailing would be nice, even though it will eliminate the "always-on" break time that air travel once provided.

      I can still remember when phones were introduced on trans-atlantic flights. The 5 dollar a minute toll rates prevented most people from getting too gabby, though. I suspect reliable airline wifi services will work out the same way. Not too sure that your land-based provider will really be able to follow you across the friendly skies.

      So here's to ordering some low-cost data minutes during the EasyJet / Ryanair booking process.

      Higher end airlines might even build it into the ticket price.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Great...just what the world needs...

        It might actually be the other way around. Free on the budget airlines and an extra charge for the rest of the carriers.

        I've noticed that internet is free at motels and and extra charge at hotels. The more posh the hotel, the higher the charge.

        1. AlbertH

          Re: Great...just what the world needs...

          Go to the front desk and complain that their nearest competitor offers free wi-fi - why don't they? I have never failed to get free wi-fi in any hotel I've stayed in by this ruse.

          Hotels are slowly beginning to realise that this isn't a viable revenue stream any more. Some that I've stayed in lately have made great play of the "now we have free wi-fi" selling point. It will become ubiquitous in time....

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Great...just what the world needs...

        >So here's to ordering some low-cost data minutes during the EasyJet / Ryanair booking process.

        Suspect they'll use a variable pricing structure just like their tickets...

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Finally, a use for all those fart apps!

    Do they have any that you can put on repeat? That way don't have to keep hitting a button, I can just set my phone on the tray in front of me with the volume at maximum, on the side next to the gabber of course, while I repeatedly high five the passengers in front of and behind me until he gets frustrated and hangs up.

  12. MachDiamond Silver badge

    Silent flights

    Maybe there will be a market for flights that are voice free.

    Too many self-important oxygen thieves will want to talk away the entire flight. They already won't let me watch the un-cut version of "Fast cars, Big boobs and Guns" on my laptop (too many people would take offense).

  13. Sonny Jim

    During take off and landing

    One of the major reasons why PEDs weren't allowed during takeoff and landing wasn't so much to do with the technical aspects, moreover during these critical phases of flight it's better than you are actually paying attention to the safety briefing rather than beefing up your defenses in Clash of the Clans.

  14. Graham 25

    welcome to the 21st century

    Some of the comments herein suggest that this is all new fangled stuff. Its not.

    Emirates long haul 380's and the occasional 777 ER aircraft have had in air wifi and OnAir mobile phone roaming, so a couple of things;

    1. Wifi is severely congested on an aircraft where I pay $10 for about 100Mb of data - its good for messaging but forget everything else, even browsing. i doubt many people actually use it so an aircraft full of kiddies simply won't be a useable service.

    2. Few people use the mobile phone option, as others have suggested as the facility is punitively expensive (good news there then)

    I share peoples concern over the yakking 16 year old with a phone welded to their ear 24/7 no longer having to STFU during a flight. They might get away with it once, but when their parents get the first bill, then roaming suddenly becomes no longer an option on their tariff and sweet silence returns.

    The biggest concern for me if it takes off (pun intended) is whether its very long before the first cellular phone blockers go active onboard a flight and those are going to be a worse scenario from a safety point of view.

    1. Metrognome

      Re: welcome to the 21st century

      First of all, connexion by boeing was on lufthansa's long-haul since 2001.

      The cost was a flat fee for the flight. I remember having a 3-way Skype while over the Atlantic approaching New Foundland. (Before you have a fit, it was on the top deck of a 747 and nowhere near anyone).

      Pity the whole thing died by 2007-ish

      The kid you are referring to is probably more tech savvy than you and if cash strapped, will almost certainly be doing VOIP instead of vanilla gsm.

      And a question: I once packed my phone in an operating state and upon arrival I found those "welcome to country X" SMS's from Greece, Albania, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Italy and Switzerland. This was back in the blackberry days but seems to contradict the "can't get connected" argument.

  15. Velv
    Childcatcher

    Maybe it will be like the olden days when they allowed smoking and you had a choice of section on check-in.

    "Will you be sitting in Civilised or Chavzville Sir?"

  16. Graham Marsden
    Megaphone

    Will you be sitting in...

    ... Twat or Non-Twat?

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Re: Will you be sitting in...

      Sitting *on*.

  17. John Crisp

    Yup, used data on Emirates A380 to and from NZ last Xmas.

    Quite handy.

    Made sure the phone was silent so as not to annoy my fellow travellers.....

    Certainly think voice should be banned. Screaming kids are bad enough....

    1. DropBear
      Facepalm

      Are you kidding? Have you tried to have a pint in public lately? If so, you must have noticed that next to nobody is using their phone to call anymore - what you hear instead is the soft chime of Facebook updates rolling in, and nimble fingers that keep typing replies...

  18. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Read a report

    about the people who use the BA flight from JFK to London City. This is an A319 that takes about 32 passengers max. It costs a pretty penny but London City Airport is close to Canary Wharf and the City itself so you can guess the types of business people they are.

    Anyways, it was reported they were happy NOT to have any voice comms during the flight. As this is an overnighter then it sort of makes sense. Text/SMS and data was more than enough.

    Sensible chaps/chappesses.

  19. Jock in a Frock

    Ban the voice!

    It's about time that the myth was busted over safety concerns. If there was *EVER* the possibility that a PED could have downed an aircraft, they would *NEVER* have been permitted on board. They would have been confiscated at security.

    Glad that we're coming round to getting onboard wifi, but I would hate to have 50% of my fellow passengers calling their mates. Let's have data, but no voice.

    1. Charles 9

      Re: Ban the voice!

      "It's about time that the myth was busted over safety concerns. If there was *EVER* the possibility that a PED could have downed an aircraft, they would *NEVER* have been permitted on board. They would have been confiscated at security."

      But unlike other things, the PED has several factors that make wholesale confiscation thorny.

      1. They're ubiquitous, meaning most passengers have them. The wholesale confiscation of something most passengers have can be ornerous, especially when...

      2. They're not easily replaced. People grumble about the liquids bit, but that's offset because one can usually just resupply at their destination. About the only people who have a problem are those with large quantity of prescription fluids. In which case, they'll have to go into checked luggage. But...

      3. They're sensitive to temperature extremes AND contain Lithium. Since there's no guarantee a luggage hold will be climate-controlled, the PED might be exposed to damaging temperature extremes and such. Furthermore, lithium is a fire risk (prone to spontaneous combustion), which is why it's banned in luggage holds (at least in a carry-on it can be pulled out in an emergency).

      4. They're considered an essential accessory to many: a link back to base. Meaning if they can't take the PED, they're not going. That puts a financial pressure on the airlines catching them between Scylla and Charybdis. If they cave, the PED might down the plane, but if they don't, the lack of passengers might torpedo the business.

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