A spin of roulette in the sporty Ford Fiesta Black

Saturday 20th September 2014 14:18 GMT Graham 24

Environment too, not just economy

>>> And it has automatic stop start ... This is all done in the name of fuel economy ... It's a £200 option, so would need to save a lot on petrol-guzzling to justify itself.

It's done as much for people walking past the car as much as those paying for the fuel. Nobody likes breathing in exhaust gases.

>>> it has the highest output per cubic centimetre of any car in current production.

Don't think that's right. Some of the exotica has it firmly beaten (e.g. McLaren P1 at 191 bhp/litre, although strictly speaking not in production any more), and for more mainstream metal, the Mercedes-Benz A45 AMG and Audi S3 are ahead (181bhp/litre and 148bhp/litre).

3 0 Reply
1. Sunday 21st September 2014 09:49 GMT John H Woods
  
  Re: Environment too, not just economy
  
  Autostop just takes a bit of getting used to - if you don't want to disengage it, and you don't want it to stop on this instance, just keep the clutch down. Another advantage (on my little A3, anyway) is that if you stall (so I'm told :-) ) it restarts automagically.
  
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2. Sunday 21st September 2014 18:06 GMT JeffyPoooh
  
  "People might see you in it."
  
  As above.
  
  0 1 Reply
3. Sunday 21st September 2014 18:37 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: Environment too, not just economy
  
  I have the 180 1.6 Ecoboost in a Focus Estate which I bought on the premise that it could get 'up to' 47mpg. It was also bought as a balance on fuel economy, road tax acceleration and speed.
  
  It also has stop start which can be overridden with a press of a button.
  
  However, after 11700 mile average fuel consumption is.... 36mpg. My previous car a 2.0 diesel Ford would average 52mpg so it's not my driving style that is at fault.
  
  Ford are renown for their optimistic fuel consumption figures on their Ecoboost engines.
  
  1 0 Reply
Saturday 20th September 2014 14:36 GMT Steve Knox

There is another reason to buy a particular car

If you look at numbers and depreciation, you buy a BMW...

It's interesting how brand value propositions differ region-to-region.

Here in the States, for example, people who buy BMWs are, as over there, not deciding with their hearts. Generally they are not, however, deciding with their heads, either.

Well, not the heads you're speaking of, anyway.

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1. Saturday 20th September 2014 14:59 GMT Cipher
  
  Re: There is another reason to buy a particular car
  
  @Steve Knox
  
  Or the Corvette when that head is deciding...
  
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2. Saturday 20th September 2014 16:05 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: There is another reason to buy a particular car
  
  Yes, I think that the actual sentence should read "If you look at numbers and depreciation and are older than Simon Rockman, you buy a Toyota."
  
  By the way - "off beat thrum" - is this a triple with a cheapo 180 degree crank like the awful Laverda motorcycle once had, or is it a proper triple with 120 degree crank? Because, if the latter, it should be perfectly smooth with just a small balance shaft for the rocking couple, and firing every 240 degrees.
  
  4 0 Reply
  1. Saturday 20th September 2014 23:15 GMT Eddy Ito
    
    Re: There is another reason to buy a particular car
    
    My understanding is that it's an even firing engine without a balance shaft. In lieu of a balance shaft they have created a counterbalancing couple in the flywheel and pulley which are each out of balance on their own.
    
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Saturday 20th September 2014 18:59 GMT Anonymous Coward

Tiny, forced engines don't inspire confidence when it comes to long-term reliability

I'd imagine fixing them quickly becomes uneconomical once the car's out of warranty.

Guess it's all part and parcel of our throwaway society?

5 1 Reply
1. Saturday 20th September 2014 19:49 GMT Kevin McMurtrie
  
  Re: Tiny, forced engines don't inspire confidence when it comes to long-term reliability
  
  I don't think engine wear is an issue from major manufacturers. I've driven cars hard until the tow truck comes to take them away. Millions of bugs and grains of dirt had stripped paint from the car, all wheel bearings loose, the transmission howling, spot welds cracked, the second round of engine oil seals leaking, second O2 sensor getting slow, brittle electrical wires, and the interiors starting to show some stuffing. Pistons, oil rings, valves, and cylinder walls were always good as new. I wouldn't worry about a turbo.
  
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  1. Saturday 20th September 2014 23:11 GMT Anomalous Cowturd
    
    Re:all wheel bearings loose, the transmission howling, the second round of engine oil seals leaking,
    
    Ever heard of a thing called a "service"?
    
    And as for "I wouldn't worry about a turbo", is that because it's not the turbo that usually fails, it's the turbo bearings or oil seals?
    
    Generally taking something expensive with them. (Like the rest of the turbo... Or the whole engine if you're really lucky. (Thanks Peugeot))
    
    Give me a nice belt driven blower any day.
    
    0 3 Reply
    1. Saturday 20th September 2014 23:31 GMT Eddy Ito
      
      turbos
      
      The problem with turbos historically has largely been temperature control. The bearings fail because the turbo and bearings tends to be screaming hot when folks kill the engine and thus stop oil flow. Without oil circulating through to cool it and the stagnant oil in the bearings the oil would coke eventually seizing the bearing or sending a nice hard piece of coke into the engine upon restarting ruining whatever it came to. With modern synthetic oils this isn't quite the problem it once was, in fact some reports are that synthetic oil doesn't coke period. Also engine builders have learned quite a bit over the last few decades about keeping the temperatures in the turbo under control which would be a requirement if said engine has an auto-stop feature.
      
      2 0 Reply
      1. Sunday 21st September 2014 07:24 GMT russell 6
        
        Re: turbos
        
        Ahh joyous memories of my long gone Saab 9000 Aero. Now that was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Turbo heaven
        
        2 0 Reply
        
        Monday 22nd September 2014 16:25 GMT jungle_jim
        
        Re: turbos
        
        Have an upvote on the Saab. I recently upgraded my 9-5 2.0lpt to a 9-5 2.3 FPT estate (uses identical engine, turbo, injectors as the Aero variant) stuck a stage 1 remap on it and it is hysterical.
        
        Another wolf in sheep's clothing!
        
        1 0 Reply
  2. Sunday 21st September 2014 18:08 GMT JeffyPoooh
    
    Re: Tiny, forced engines don't inspire confidence when it comes to long-term reliability
    
    Junk yards are full of pristine crankshafts.
    
    Everyone is paranoid about engine oil. Then the control arms rust off.
    
    Daft. Completely bonkers.
    
    0 1 Reply
  3. Monday 22nd September 2014 12:21 GMT Anonymous Coward
    
    Re: Tiny, forced engines don't inspire confidence when it comes to long-term reliability
    
    I have a Fiat 500 Twinair on a three year lease. When it was delivered I asked where I had to take it for servicing. The chap looked up the paper work and said "6,000 miles a year for three years? You don't need to. First service is at 18,000 miles"
    
    875cc turbo-charged engine? What do they do, replace the whole thing at each service?
    
    0 0 Reply
Saturday 20th September 2014 23:23 GMT Gene Cash

I certainly wouldn't buy anything American made/designed

I'd trust that engine to last about 20 minutes past the warranty period, if I was lucky.

I wouldn't trust the rest of the kit that far, especially that dash. I'd think those buttons would last about 2 months in the Florida heat before they stopped working. The screens usually last about a month and a half before they start warping or going rainbow.

0 5 Reply
1. Sunday 21st September 2014 02:10 GMT fishman
  
  Re: I certainly wouldn't buy anything American made/designed
  
  ... I certainly wouldn't buy anything American made/designed ...
  
  My Mercury Sable wagon has 238K miles on it, and it's been almost troublefree - better than my wifes Toyota Camry with 190K miles. And I tend to beat on my car - jackrabbit starts, running it at 75-80 mph all day (it's made numerous trips of 700 to 1000 miles in a single day), driving it in rush hour traffic on the Washington DC beltway for 10 years.
  
  BMW, Mercedes, VAG? nice cars, but when they go (and they do!), it costs big bucks. Even some of their biggest advocates won't own them outside of the warranty period.
  
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2. Tuesday 23rd September 2014 09:42 GMT annodomini2
  
  Re: I certainly wouldn't buy anything American made/designed
  
  The engine was designed in Germany and the Chassis in England.
  
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Sunday 21st September 2014 08:44 GMT DJO

Repairs vs Depreciation

BMW, Mercedes, VAG? nice cars, but when they go (and they do!), it costs big bucks. Even some of their biggest advocates won't own them outside of the warranty period.

Not sure if in pure financial terms that's a sensible option. Buy a new car for say £16,000 and after a few years it's lost over half it's value, but buying a "pre-owned" model and you only pay a fraction and you might have an expensive repair bill but it's unlikely to equal the depreciation of a new car over the same duration. Personally given the choice of a new Ford Fester against a 5 or 6 year old Merc I know which I'd choose.

3 0 Reply
Monday 22nd September 2014 08:37 GMT Simon Rockman

Depreciation

My 21 year old Merc is at least flat on depreciation and maybe even increasing in value. It's just had an MOT. The only thing it needed was a new tyre and there was an advisory on one seat belt.

OK, so it does a third of the MPG of the Fiesta and is much slower, and not nearly as much fun.

Simon

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