back to article Microsoft boots 1,500 dodgy apps from the Windows Store

Microsoft has turned 1,500 applications out of the Windows Store, the app bazaar for Windows 8 devices. In a post titled How we’re addressing misleading apps in Windows Store, Microsoft explains it has conducted a promised spring clean by changing the rules for admission to the store and will henceforth insist on the following …

  1. pierce

    I've never used a WiPho (heck I don't even use an Android or iPhone, although I do have an android tablet), adn being a staunch desktop user, I can say that the entire 'metro' experience of win8 has done NOTHING for me. I find Win8 quite usable as a desktop system when augumented with Classic Start Menu, but there's absolutely zero of interest to me in that Playskool/Fisher-Price world of lavender and teal blocks and full screen 'apps' that do nothing useful.

    1. MacroRodent

      On a phone, the Interface formerly known as Metro works pretty well. A small touch screen operated by fumbling fingers is a low-resolution input device, so the "Fisher-Price" approach is actually sensible... But it is indeed mysterious why Microsoft thought it would make sense on a desktop.

      1. LarsG

        @MacroRodent

        Well the answer to that is someone designed it, several decided it was a good idea, more decided it would work and agreed to release it.

        Who should we blame? Are they still in a job?

        1. ratfox

          Re: why Microsoft thought it would make sense on a desktop

          Microsoft had zero developers for its mobile phones. No developers means no apps, means no users, means no developers, etc. Putting TIFKAM on desktop was a way to bootstrap development on mobile, by getting the countless developers for desktop Windows interested.

          1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

            And that backfired spectacularly.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: why Microsoft thought it would make sense on a desktop

            "Microsoft had zero developers for its mobile phones. No developers means no apps"

            Erm - but there are already over 300,000 Windows Phone apps, and it's growing at ~ 100% per year.

            1. Richard Plinston

              Re: why Microsoft thought it would make sense on a desktop

              > and it's growing at ~ 100% per year.

              The main problem with apps for Microsoft mobile platforms is the instability. Windows Mobile 6.x was killed dead by WP7. All the WP7 apps were dumped when WP8 was incompatible. Desktop and RT apps were different too. The next round is supposed to be compatible from phone to RT and Win8.x (or 9), but may need to be redeveloped with yet another new SDK.

        2. Hi Wreck

          Re: @MacroRodent

          Not at Microsoft. (See Sinosky (sp?))

        3. Colin Ritchie
          Windows

          Re: @MacroRodent

          Judging by Sinofsky's payout when he left M$, you may find that the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "But it is indeed mysterious why Microsoft thought it would make sense on a desktop."

        Because touch and gesture based computing are clearly the future on the desktop too....Microsoft are just somewhat ahead of the curve.

        1. VinceH
          Coat

          "Microsoft are just somewhat ahead of the curve"

          You mean they've gone around the bend?

          1. Mpeler
            Coat

            1500 and counting, er, wait

            "Microsoft has turned 1,500 applications out of the Windows Store, the app bazaar for Windows 8 devices."

            Two questions:

            1) 1500 out - are there any left?

            2) bazaar - didn't you mean bizarre?

            (just kidding...)

            They need to take that ribbon and rope in some more developers...

        2. Pirate Dave Silver badge
          Pirate

          "Microsoft are just somewhat ahead of the curve."

          Only if they are marching backwards...

        3. Richard Plinston

          > Because touch and gesture based computing are clearly the future on the desktop too

          Which is strange because no one seems to want to use these on the desktop.

          Just like voice input and voice commands, they are useless on a desktop system in an office or home environment, too much background noise and movement for voice or gesture, screen too far away for touch, fingers too fat for fine enough control of desktop applications.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "Just like voice input and voice commands, they are useless on a desktop system in an office or home environment, too much background noise and movement for voice or gesture, screen too far away for touch, fingers too fat for fine enough control of desktop applications."

            Not true - you are clearly spouting invented FUD rather than speaking from experience. I have a touch screen desktop PC and its great to use. Fingers can already control desktop apps just fine - and there are touch optimised versions of Office and other major applications on the way.

            Voice and guesture based commands work just fine too - as per my Xbox One. That works great even with the TV on at high volume - and easily tracks specfic users versus background movement.

            1. Steven Raith

              I think everyone has missed the point. The point of this is not Metro, it's that MS's bribery of developers (throwing Money-Per-App at them) means that there are now thousands of apps that offer you, say, a guide on how to install VLC on your machine. At a cost of a few quid. For something that you can google for free. Which are ranked right up there with the genuine app and VLCs own (free) installer.

              AC-Twat: That's where your'e 100% growth is coming from, scamming cunts, paid by MS, who never bothered to check whether the apps were actually functional or offered anything of value.

              Talk about missing the point by a country mile.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                "MS's bribery of developers (throwing Money-Per-App at them)"

                Wasn't that Blackberry? Can't remember MS doing it.

                1. Steven Raith

                  AC. Read this archived web page.

                  Web archive image of the promotion to encourage more apps

                  For the devoid of clickity:

                  Keep The Cash

                  Publish apps.

                  Get up to $2000*

                  Publish your app(s) in the Windows Store and/or Windows Phone Store from March 8th to June 30th, 2013.

                  Enter up to 10 apps per Store and get a $100 virtual Visa card for each that qualifies (up to $2000*).

                  Enter Now

                  Now, fill out the form below. You can get a $100 virtual Visa card for every qualified app you enter (up to $2000*). So don't stop with just one app! If you're eligible to receive the offer, we'll notify you by email.

                  That's the sort of thing that really encourages quality development, and not just Apps that download a link to the VLC installer at the low, low cost of $2.49.

                  Microsoft - encouraging asshattery at every turn.

                  Steven R

            2. randomwomble

              Re: Voice and Gesture commands - there was the recent incident of the Xbox advert on TV which managed to turn on people's Xbox's, and a colleague has a gesture based TV that suffers from problems caused by reflections in windows/mirrors - if someone on screen puts their hand up - it can activate the gesture system.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                "Re: Voice and Gesture commands - there was the recent incident of the Xbox advert on TV which managed to turn on people's Xbox's, and a colleague has a gesture based TV that suffers from problems caused by reflections in windows/mirrors - if someone on screen puts their hand up - it can activate the gesture system."

                Sometimes they work too well! Kinnect at least certainly is intelligent enough not to be distracted by minor reflections. Sounds like crappy TV firmware / motion sensors to me.

                Can't wait until some TV movie triggers loads of Glasshole headsets to do something amusing....

            3. Richard Plinston

              > Voice and guesture based commands work just fine too - as per my Xbox One.

              In what way is that a "desktop system in an office or home environment".

        4. Fungus Bob
          Windows

          "Microsoft are just somewhat ahead of the curve"

          If by "somewhat ahead of the curve" you mean downright loopy, you and I are in complete agreement.

      3. Fatman

        RE: But it is indeed mysterious why Microsoft thought it would make sense on a desktop.

        Because some ID10T in marketing thought that touch was a brilliant idea after he drank a gallon of MS Kool-Aid.

    2. DrXym

      ", I can say that the entire 'metro' experience of win8 has done NOTHING for me. I find Win8 quite usable as a desktop system when augumented with Classic Start Menu, but there's absolutely zero of interest to me in that Playskool/Fisher-Price world of lavender and teal blocks and full screen 'apps' that do nothing useful."

      Microsoft were making a beeline to tablet land with the metro interface. I am quite certain that during Windows 8 the devs were told to forget about mouse / keyboard experience and push to get something that worked on a tablet.

      They screwed it up pretty badly in 8 though in fairness 8.1 SP1 has fixed the roughest edges. If they implement something compact and analogous to a start menu in SP2 or 9 then I think most of the complaints will be overcome.

      As for apps I don't find them any worse than other mobile apps. Some of them are rather good - the Netflix app is really nice and Microsoft have some good stock apps for email, browsing, weather, maps etc. I even use some of them when the tablet is docked up. But I still mostly use the desktop.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Honestly?

      I want to see you be brave.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Icons

    Icons – must be differentiated to avoid being mistaken with others.

    Considering that the design language is as flat as a pancake it must be hard to differentiate icons when it will be a choice of a garish colour and a white icon like say a pair of headphones...

    Ah well 1500 apps removed four left.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Icons

      Yes, the 4 left are porn apps masquerading as games.

      1. ThomH

        Re: Icons (@AC)

        At least that would make a change from the usual Zynga/EA/Disney/everyone approach of microtransaction-enabled Skinner Boxes masquerading as games?

        1. P. Lee
          Facepalm

          Re: Icons (@AC)

          > At least that would make a change from the usual Zynga/EA/Disney/everyone approach of microtransaction-enabled Skinner Boxes masquerading as games?

          I feel compelled to upvote you.

    2. RyokuMas
      FAIL

      Re: Icons

      "Ah well 1500 apps removed four left."

      Go home AC, you're boring.

    3. DrXym

      Re: Icons

      All platforms are going for a flat look and moving away from skeumorphism. I think Microsoft's problems are multiplied because they didn't just go flat, they went monochrome. Most of the tiles are a single colour with a single colour on top. I think the situation is *slightly* better on Metro than Windows Phone because there tends to be more going on in the live tiles, tiles are available in more sizes, and tiles that launch desktop apps show the traditional icon.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Icons

        Nowhere is written your icons must be monochromatic nor they are forced to use the theme color. Most well coded applications offer a choice of display icon, one using the theme color, others using the colors of their choice.

        Sure, a well designed icon and tile will make the home screen look more elegant and be more functional than what you can get on other phones with a luna park/candy shop look and widgets with very different designs looking ugly one near the other.

  3. returnmyjedi

    "Punters who bought them mistakenly can eveg score a refund"

    Can do what now?

  4. king of foo

    um

    Volume isn't that important: quality is.

    Android was similarly chastised in the beginning over having less apps than apple. Now it's full of crap.

    I'd rather have a choice of 10 quality applications in a "store" than 1000 time wasters.

    Anything less than *** with more than 50 reviews should be removed immediately; simple uat...

    Wait... I'm now thinking of ms primarily as a smartphone/tablet vendor... How the mighty have fallen! Oy! Numpties! Turn your attention back to the desktop where it belongs!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: um

      10 Quality Apps on a Win Phone?

      What an optimist you are.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: um

      Why remove an app with 50 plus reviews and less than 3 stars? If someone is stupid enough to buy an app without looking at the rating or reading the reviews, that's surely up to them?

    3. Tim 11

      Re: um

      > Anything less than *** with more than 50 reviews should be removed immediately; simple uat...

      And how exactly would a new app ever get on the store in the first place if it needs 50 reviews first?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: um

        No Worries Tim. The downvotes clearly show the lack of thought and rational thinking brought about by fervent anti microsoftism...

        I do sometimes think downvotes are a direct retaliation by some commentards so stupid that they are embarrassed by their own thought processes..

        1. king of foo

          Re: um

          @tim if the average rating is 1 or 2 stars out of 5 after 50 people have rated it, it's shit. If less than 50 people have rated it the criteria for removal would not have been met so it would be left alone.

          @cornz 1 er, what? Maybe there's some google translate fun going on or something. I suspect Tim's downvotes were from people who, like me, thought of Harry Enfield when they read Tim's response...

          1. P. Lee

            Re: um

            You are assuming reviewer accounts=reviewers

        2. RyokuMas
          Thumb Up

          Re: um

          Careful cornz1 - next thing you know, you'll be accused of being a "shill", or a "microsoft employee", making those kind of noises!

    4. Eddy Ito

      Re: um

      Isn't the statistic something like a new app receives most of its reviews within the first two or three weeks? If that's the case it makes sense to give an app a trial window and if it doesn't reach $THRESHOLD in that time then it gets pulled. A quick search seems to indicate that about 60% of all apps are zombies anyway with many having never been downloaded regardless of which app store you look at. Certainly after a year if it hasn't been downloaded once it isn't likely to take off anytime soon. It's probably a pity as there is likely some wheat among all that chaff.

      1. ThomH

        Re: um

        The problem then is that you daren't ever get rid of the legacy feature that 5% of people still use but which makes it much harder for the other 95% to get things done as immediately after that update you're guaranteed that the 5% will come out in force and temporarily lower your average rating.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: um

        The problem is there is no way to rate reviewers...

        1. auburnman

          Re: um

          "The problem is there is no way to rate reviewers..."

          If that were possible there would be an arms race between sleazy developers racing to slate critical reviewers.

    5. alwarming

      Re: um

      I remember blackberry making a comment to the tune of "we don't need 200 fart apps" [1].

      I guess that philosophy served them truly well in the long run as some of the execs had comfy parachutes.

      [1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/01/rim_super_apps/

  5. paulc
    Trollface

    Windows has a store?

    n/t

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Trollface

      Re: Windows has a store?

      That had more than 1500 apps yesterday!

      Why didn't somebody mention this?

    2. WraithCadmus
      Trollface

      Re: Windows has a store?

      Windows has a store?

      n/t

      They don't call it NT these days Paul...

  6. eJ2095

    Didnt know

    They could kick out there own service packs....

  7. Tristram Shandy

    Well the Windows Store can only get better in time, and it's good to see MS tackling this now. I'm not sure whether WinPhone has reached the critical mass where developers start turning their full attention to it, but anybody releasing an app in the WinStore has a far better chance of being noticed by punters.

    As a recent purchaser of a Nokia 630 with 8.1 on it, I find it extremely well thought out and it works fine at its price point. I've found apps that work well for nearly everything I need on it ( even purchased one for real money), but there is a lot of junk that is simply buggy in the store.

    Any improvement in the quality of apps is going to be welcome if WinPhone is going to make a real impact.

    1. Terry 6 Silver badge
      Happy

      I'm with tristram Shandy. Just got a 635 ( i.e. has 4 G).

      It just works.

      It does the job well. It's clear and logical to use.

      It's a decent price.

      I can share my PC Outlook and mobile phone calendars seemlessly again, which I've missed since Google killed the outlook sync app.

      And so far all the apps I need are there and work well.

      BUT, Google Earth isn't available for Winphone. (Not that I need it to be honest).

      So a search for it will find dozens of spurious "apps" that are crap feeders of one knd or another. Even searching for "Google" in the Winphone app store will find lots of fake apps with icons that are straight copies of Google's. And so on.

      (But yes they shouldn't have tried to make proper grown up Windows look like the little phone Windows. Just saying it makes it clear how ludicrous the idea was.)

    2. Charles Manning

      From where I sit...

      It seems like everyone is going the other way... running from Windows CE/phone as fast as possible.

      In the early 2000s, Windows CE was the platform of choice for mobile handheld profressional products (eg. top-end GIS producst like ESRI's ARCGIS). Now..... welll... nothig. They've switching to iphones and Androids. Many still have Windows phone support, but that's certainly no longer the conerstone of the mobile strategy.

      I've been in this game a long time - since WinCE 1.x.. It's been all downhill since 2007/8.

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
        Coat

        Look at the bright side

        WinPhone users know that they are part of the 1% (of the market) !

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Look at the bright side

          Sadly some are still fooled by the cherrypicked stat that one country in the arse-end of nowhere has 10% stunt that Microsoft like to play. They will use this stat and pretend it's relevant in western developed countries.

          Back in the real world, Windows phone is 1% and shrinking... No wonder developers aren't bothered about it.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Look at the bright side

            "Sadly some are still fooled by the cherrypicked stat that one country in the arse-end of nowhere has 10% "

            You mean the 'arse-end of nowhere' like the UK and the EU top 5 for instance?

            1. Richard Plinston

              Re: Look at the bright side

              > You mean the 'arse-end of nowhere' like the UK and the EU top 5 for instance?

              There may well have been a spike in sales in a few countries over a short time, but this was primarily because the prices were below cost. Nokia never made a profit from Windows Phones in spite of being given a $billion a year. If products are discounted enough then there will be sales, but doing this long term is unsupportable (which is why Nokia brought out their Android-X phones and sold the loss making division to Microsoft).

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Look at the bright side

                "There may well have been a spike in sales in a few countries over a short time, but this was primarily because the prices were below cost"

                Wrong on both counts - the latest Kantar figues out this week still show a 9.9% UK market share for Windows Phone - even though Microsoft have only just started to release new devices after a long gap. Nokia never sold any handsets at below parts cost.

                "Nokia never made a profit from Windows Phones in spite of being given a $billion a year.

                Nokia ended up paying Microsoft more in license fees than Microsoft paid Nokia in platform support payments. If Windows Phone had always been license free then Nokia would have made a profit.

                "which is why Nokia brought out their Android-X phones"

                This was to plug the gap between their really basic 3rd world type handsets and the premium Windows Phone range. Primarily for markets like Asia and China - not relevant to the UK really.

                1. Richard Plinston

                  Re: Look at the bright side

                  > the latest Kantar figues

                  Kantar have very selective figures which do not match up with quarterly total sales.

                  > 9.9% UK market share for Windows Phone

                  Which is down from 12%. But even that 9.9% is old news:

                  http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2357938/android-grows-uk-market-share-at-expense-of-ios-and-windows-phone

                  """according to the latest statistics from analyst outfit Kantar Worldpanel Comtech:

                  """Windows Phone saw its market share slip too, following reports that sales of Lumia handsets are starting to slow. In June, the Microsoft mobile operating system had a 7.5 percent market share, compared to 9.1 percent the previous month and 9.5 percent in June 2013."""

                  > Nokia never sold any handsets at below parts cost.

                  You don't know that, they may have. But 'below parts cost' does not represent the only way to 'sell at a loss'. The finished product is _much_ more than a list of parts, it includes assembly, packaging, transport and marketing and maybe more. What is known is that they made massive losses which includes selling off some models at less than FOB:

                  http://www.statista.com/statistics/273279/nokias-net-profits-by-quarter/

                  > Nokia ended up paying Microsoft more in license fees than Microsoft paid Nokia in platform support payments.

                  That would only be true if each licence were around $35 (1billion/30million). As this is about twice what others have said the licence would cost then it is unlikely. Also that is irrelevant. If Nokia had to pay licence fees then that is part of the cost.

                  > If Windows Phone had always been license free then Nokia would have made a profit.

                  If it were licence free _and_ MS still paid then a $billion dollars then they _may_ have broken even at least in some quarters, but not all.

                  > This was to plug the gap between their really basic 3rd world type handsets and the premium Windows Phone range.

                  While there were some 'premium' models in the WP range most of the sales were in the 'bargain bin' range.

                  http://www.wpcentral.com/nokia-posts-q1-interim-report-handset-sales-down-30-percent

                  """The report also notes a sequential and year-on-year decline in average selling prices for devices, indicating that those who did buy Nokia phones shied away from higher-priced models."""

        2. GitMeMyShootinIrons

          Re: Look at the bright side

          "WinPhone users know that they are part of the 1% (of the market) !"

          Spoken like a true conformist. If the apps that are available (and there are plenty) are fit for what the user needs and the device and OS are stable, maintained and secure (sometimes an issue with some Android implementations), how is market share relevant?

          I don't see Mac or Linux users bleating about small market share being a problem to them.

          1. chris 17 Silver badge

            Re: Look at the bright side

            how is market share relevant?

            if you want maximum return for your outlay you will target the biggest market possible, Why write for WinPho when IOS and Android have many more potential customers?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Look at the bright side

              So you said nobody should write desktop apps for Linux? Ah, actually no one does... at least when a return in involved.

            2. RyokuMas
              Stop

              Re: Look at the bright side

              "Why write for WinPho when IOS and Android have many more potential customers?"

              Why not? After all, you're going to be using a cross-platform toolkit, right? Nobody wants to write the same app twice and have to maintain two code bases... right?

              And - given that there are upwards of 1.5billion smartphones out there right now - not targeting Windows Phone means 30 million potential customers lost - that's another 300,000 quid, if your app is £1 a throw and assuming a 1% conversion rate. Not mega-money, I know, but certainly enough to pay off my mortgage...

      2. Hans 1

        Re: From where I sit...

        @ Charles Manning - Re:From where I sit...

        > [...] WinCE 1.x.. It's been all downhill since 2007/8.

        It's been all downhill since 2007/8 and under water since 2010.

  8. RyokuMas
    Thumb Up

    Hope that includes...

    ... all the Flappy Bird/Swing Copter clones.

  9. LucreLout

    I quite liked win phone 8. It worked pretty well. Then my carrier decided to upgrade me to 8.1, which looks nice, but email no longer works, it just opens and closes without error and without displaying anything at all.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "email no longer works, it just opens and closes without error and without displaying anything at all."

      Delete the email account under settings, then recreate it.

  10. Franco

    I like WinPho personally, it's simple and easy to use and does what I need. Can't really think of any app I don't have that I actually want other than the YouView app, and it's anyway pretty rare that I use that

    Metro or whatever they're calling it this week does actually work quite well on a touch screen device (I have a Surface Pro) but I still spend most of my time in desktop mode

  11. Pen-y-gors

    WinPho/Win 9

    I agree with earlier poster that the Metro approach may work on well on a phone, but I think MS need to go a step further than adding a start menu with Win9, and include an option to completely disable the whole Metro/Apps thing so that desktop users can have a desktop OS, without worrying about confusing apps that duplicate real programs.

  12. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Naming – to clearly and accurately reflect the functionality of the app.

    Well they can get rid of Bing, Skype, and Cortana then. I look forward to them bringing back the names of old when they were at the top of their game...

    - Microsoft Internet Search 2.5.

    - Microsoft Video Conferencing 6.1.

    - Microsoft Personal Software Assistant 1.1.

  13. Modeller

    App development requires Win8

    I have a WP (Nakia 625) and I have created an app relatively easily. However, I had to install a trial version of Windows 8 to install the development kit. Now that my Windows 8 trial has expired, I am not going to develop any WP8 apps, since no way in hell I am going to pay for Windows 8.

  14. chivo243 Silver badge
    Go

    Going out of Business

    Nothing to see here folks, we've shuttered up the whole fuckin' store... you should see an error 404 soon...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Naming – to clearly and accurately reflect the functionality of the app."

    Hopefully that means:

    Microzoft Solitair Official

    Microsoft Explorer 12 0fficial

    Mcrosoft Control Pane1

    and all those other dodgy apps are removed. Only, what, 24 months late?

  16. IGnatius T Foobar
    FAIL

    Microsoft removes 1,500 apps from WindoPhone Store...

    ...and the two or three actual WindoPhone users out there may or may not have noticed.

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