back to article Ofcom will not probe lesbian lizard snog in new Dr Who series

Ofcom has declined to probe the BBC after it received complaints about the screening of a kiss between a lizard-like character and her human wife during an episode of Doctor Who. The watchdog received half a dozen complaints after the characters, played by Neve McIntosh and Catrin Stewart, shared a crafty live-saving snog* as …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Priorities

    So, new Doctor *may* have done something REALLY naughty, not a grumble.

    An interspecies snog gets complaints?? Oh how I love the readers of the Daily Mail...

    1. frank ly

      Re: Priorities

      "An interspecies snog gets complaints??"

      No, a same sex snog got complaints; nobody seems to be worried about an interspecies marriage/partnership. That in itself is a bit strange.

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

        Re: Priorities

        Not really... how many people kiss their pets but would never consider kissing a human of the same sex?

        1. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

          Re: Priorities

          Practically none. If you kiss your pet the same way you kiss a human you fancy then I worry about a) your pet or b) your unsatisfied partner

          Personally I thought they're one of the best things to happen in Who in ages. At least they're comprehensively getting rid of screaming girlies, so common in classic Who

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Priorities

          "how many people kiss their pets..."

          Geez, none I hope. I would prefer to snog the extra-terrestial 'woman' by far than a pet.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Not "extra-terrestrial"

            Silurians were here first.

            AC as I'm ashamed of my own Whovian pedantry :-/

            1. Kane

              Re: Not "extra-terrestrial"

              Don't be ashamed, embrace it, love it and express it.

    2. fandom

      Re: Priorities

      "Oh how I love the readers of the Daily Mail..."

      Why do political nuts feel the need to insult the 'opponents' every chance they get, or they don't get like this time?

      Is it because they are nuts?

      Nah, don't bother explaining it to me, I hope I will never get it

    3. xyz Silver badge

      Re: Priorities

      Yeah but, no but...isn't interspecies "stuff" extreme pr0n? Well according to HMG and mumsnet anyway. If the maid had tried that with a horse there would have been hell to pay, but lizards are there for the taking...is that the message? Mind you I quite fancy that lizard myself...I'm off to get a gekko now to see what all the fuss is about.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Priorities

      Personally, I welcome our new lesbanian, french-kissing, tongue-probing, spit-swapping reptilian overlords!

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Priorities

      Personally, I welcome our new tongue-kissing, mouth-probing, spit-swapping reptilian overlords!

  2. Suricou Raven

    Did the BBC just troll people?

    The kiss served no purpose in the story, didn't do a whole lot in the way of character development, and was rather clumsily shoehorned into the writing with an excuse.

    I almost looks like this was the BBC's plan all along: Put something a tad provocative in knowing it would be sure to stir up complains from the easily offended homophobes* thus giving them a little publicity and making said homophobes look like the prudes and idiots they are.

    *They all deny it, but does anyone seriously believe there would have been complaints had one gender differed?

    1. Tac Eht Xilef

      Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

      "... served no purpose in the story, didn't do a whole lot in the way of character development, and was rather clumsily shoehorned into the writing with an excuse."

      Welcome to StevenMoffatLand!

    2. lpcollier

      Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

      I thought it was all quite ham-fisted - they've made the point that they're a married couple in previous episodes, but felt the need to mention it at least 3 times in this episode plus the pointless kiss, together with the ridiculous 'my lungs can store oxygen' which makes no sense at all. And they hinted that Clara is gay too. That's all fine, if it fits with the story, but it's grating to have it highlighted so many times, very amateurish and actually served to undermine their point.

      1. Annihilator
        Meh

        Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

        "I thought it was all quite ham-fisted - they've made the point that they're a married couple in previous episodes, but felt the need to mention it at least 3 times in this episode plus the pointless kiss, together with the ridiculous 'my lungs can store oxygen' which makes no sense at all"

        Yes but the real point is (and maybe they were deliberately doing this, maybe they weren't) if they were of different genders the exact same storyline plus the number of mentions of marriage and "kisses" wouldn't have been noticed or indeed have grated you.

        I suspect similar storylines have happened between the Doctor (Matt Smith) & River with multiple mentions of their relationship.

    3. John Bailey

      Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

      "The kiss served no purpose in the story, didn't do a whole lot in the way of character development, and was rather clumsily shoehorned into the writing with an excuse."

      Apart from the fact that the clockwork zombies home in on breath, and the human girl's lung capacity was less than the lizard girl's. So they shared.

      Some reptiles, such as I thing Crocodiles, can hold their breath for amazingly long periods, so is it really unthinkable that she would have that attribute?

      Do some strenuous exercise such as fighting off the aforementioned clockwork zombies, or moving a large item of furniture, and see if you can hold your breath for as long as you can when not breathing hard.

      How do you propose the lizard transfers some of her air to the human?

      A straw?

      A "totally believable" snorkel carried on the off chance?

      An arbitrary hollow finger?

      Oh the howls of outrage from the nitpickers about the plot hole. And people whine about the over use of the sonic.

      The monster homing in on breath is not a new concept either.

      Some of the Chinese vampire movies such as Mr Vampire portray Chinese vampires as homing in on breath too, so to evade them, don't breath.

      Countless stories where people share breath to get to the surface when one has been trapped underwater..

      Some real insects even use breath to home in on prey.

      "I almost looks like this was the BBC's plan all along: Put something a tad provocative in knowing it would be sure to stir up complains from the easily offended homophobes* thus giving them a little publicity and making said homophobes look like the prudes and idiots they are."

      Oh no.. surely not.. They would never do that.. Like the two women who kissed on DS9 years ago and caused outrage among the easily offended, or Uhuru and was it Spock, or Kirk's mixed race kiss?

      It's a plot line. It rounds the characters out a smidge with a potential for a bit of back story. Deal with it.

      Any worse than Captain Jack, and the any gender, any species, any time meme?

      "*They all deny it, but does anyone seriously believe there would have been complaints had one gender differed?"

      Who all denies it?

      With people who get outraged for a hobby.. Sure. Some just love to tell anybody they can corner how offended they are. Just look at any story here.

      Good on Ofcom for telling them to grow up and piss off.

      It's 2014. looking at your feet and mixing up words up is not a believable depiction of affection any more. People engage in marital unpleasantness all over the place, and this would be a great opportunity to explain to a kid that sometimes people like to snog someone the same gender.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Headmaster

        Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

        Everyone I know calls the comms lady from Star Trek Uhuru but I'm sure it's Uhura.

        As long as you don't call the pointy eared one Doctor Spock, we'll be Ok

        ;)

        1. Richard 26

          Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

          'As long as you don't call the pointy eared one Doctor Spock, we'll be Ok'

          I never understood that idea. His name is Spock, and one assumes he has a doctorate. It would be plain rude to call him Mister Spock unless you happen to be his superior officer.

          1. Sir Runcible Spoon
            Joke

            What did you just call me?

            Just don't try and call him by his first name, the pronunciation is impossible and invariably translates to something akin to "Your mother was a hamster.."

          2. John H Woods Silver badge

            It would be plain rude to call him Mister Spock unless ...

            ... he was a surgeon?

          3. Stephen W Harris

            Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

            Google "Dr Benjamin Spock". His name was the "Spock" that people knew long before Star Trek existed, and "Mr Spock" vs "Dr Spock" was a common mistake at the time.

      2. APA

        Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

        "Some reptiles, such as I thing Crocodiles, can hold their breath for amazingly long periods"

        Except Crocodiles aren't holding their breath. They simple not breathing and building up an oxygen debt in their blood. Crocodile blood is also known to be very efficient at storing oxygen AND their muscles happen to work well even with low oxygen. The point being their lungs have nothing to do with it. An equivalent practice would be like divers hyperventilating before a long dive. The capacity of the lungs hasn't changed, just the amount of oxygen in the blood.

        I found the kiss to be jarring, not because of some homophobic agenda but my suspension of disbelief finally broke that a lizard could transfer oxygen back out of its blood and into its lungs in order to then breathe that oxygen into a human. I'm with another poster on this one, I think the BBC are trolling (JUST like they did with the panto-like Captain Jack). The kiss didn't add anything to the plot that hadn't already been said MULTIPLE times but was wedged in anyway at the expense of the science.

        Science Fiction is at its best when extrapolated from already known science. When you start making things up that outright contradicts our understanding of the world then it stops being science and become magic, which has its place in a different genre.

        * OK, I'll concede that 2 sets of lungs are better than 1, and so in that sense the additional capacity would have helped but rather assumes that Lady Vastra hasn't absorbed all of the oxygen contained in them already.

        1. Suricou Raven

          Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

          I imagine it also helps that they are ectotherms. That saves a great deal of energy.

          Now there's an idea for a future scene... Characters fighting against killer robots with thermal infra-red vision. Clara, Vastra and some other characters pinned down, as the killer robots stalk them looking for any sign of heat to shoot at. Then the cold-blooded one calmly steps out, walks behind one and hits the off switch.

        2. Lamont Cranston

          Re: "my suspension of disbelief finally broke"

          ...at a lizard lady doing something improbable with her oxygen supply? How do you cope with the frequently killed immortal, who travels around in an extra-dimensional, time-hopping police box from the 1960s? Doctor Who isn't exactly "hard" sci-fi.

          Until we all learn to stop viewing homosexuality as a deviant behaviour, any incidence of such behaviour in any TV show is probably going to seem jarring and shoe-horned in*. The Kirk/Uhura kiss probably felt like that to many viewers, way back when, but I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid, now.

          *I honestly don't care if the writers included it solely to piss-off the moral outrage brigade - if it helps demystify homosexuality among Who's intended audience, it served a useful purpose (it prompted a brief discussion between my young son and I, about same-sex marriage - of course, he thinks that kissing is icky, regardless of the participants' genders).

          1. P. Lee

            Re: "my suspension of disbelief finally broke"

            Actually, homosexuality is "deviant" in that it deviates from the majority practise. That's a good thing too - if everyone was gay, there would be no more people and the human race would end. The beeb loves to promote it, but I found it to be an eww! scene. By explicitly sexualising the moment, it rather hit you in the face with "how would that work?" which just wasn't a thought that was required and completely dropped you out of the story.

            The show has gone from being entertainment to social engineering. Surely it must be possible to have a show which is just entertaining. My kids are still kids, they aren't interested in sex and I'm reasonably sure Dr Who isn't the best way to teach them about it. If I did have kids who were interested in sex (say a 15 year old boy) I'm also sure putting images of sex between a woman and a lizard woman in his head is also not a really helpful thing to do.

            I don't let the Beeb or any other mass media do my kids sex ed - that's a parent's role. I'd kindly thank the mass media to stop it - I'm not convinced they are either competant or have my child's best interest at heart. In the mean time, the button is off.

            1. Hollerith 1

              Re: "my suspension of disbelief finally broke"

              I think you'll find that many gay people procreate. Sometimes they grit their teeth and do it the old-fashioned way, because they want children, sometimes they use medical intervention.

              I wouldn't call a minority preference 'deviant', especially when it is so deeply embedded. That would be to suggest that all left-handed people are 'deviant'. Right-handedness is the majority 'practice', but that means nothing at all. It just is.

              Showing minority 'practices' is not teaching sex-ed, it is showing the world as it is. Children who are cocooned to believe that the world is just mummies and daddies are not being helped to face the world they'll live in when they grow up.

              However, I always suspect a lesbian kiss or sex scene, as it always seems there to titillate the male part of the audience than for any plot-driven reason (I am speaking more widely that Dr. W) From a rough count through memory-land, I think it's about eight women-women kisses to men-men kisses on TV. Strange bias...

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: "my suspension of disbelief finally broke"

                "However, I always suspect a lesbian kiss or sex scene, as it always seems there to titillate the male part of the audience than for any plot-driven reason"

                Not really going to work when the two women in question are only there to try to generate a spin-off series that Moffat can run in imitation of RTD's Torchwood. I'd sooner see them drown than kiss.

        3. Rob Telford

          Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

          New Scientist covered this particular point in their "Guide to the cool science bits" in the episode

          http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26096-doctor-who-episode-1-a-guide-to-the-cool-science-bits.html#.VABKQEuZ47R

          "Cameo-companion Madame Vastra, a member of the super-evolved reptile species the Silurians, finds it much easier to hold her breath, claiming she can store oxygen in her body to breathe later. It turns out that's actually true, at least for monitor lizards, which have bird-like air sacs."

        4. Tom 35

          Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

          "suspension of disbelief finally broke that a lizard could transfer oxygen back out of its blood and into its lungs in order to then breathe that oxygen into a human."

          That's exactly what can happen. If you fill your lungs with oxygen free gas (like helium at a party) the oxygen in blood will defuse from your blood back into your lungs, and you pass out in seconds. There is no active transfer going on in the lungs, it's just diffusion from higher concentration to lower.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

        "Apart from the fact that the clockwork zombies home in on breath, and the human girl's lung capacity was less than the lizard girl's. So they shared."

        Thus negating the purpose of holding their breath.

        Badly written episode all round - Clara's motivation made no sense at all given that she is the one human to have seen all the Doctor's incarnations.

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon
          Headmaster

          Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

          "An equivalent practice would be like divers hyperventilating before a long dive. The capacity of the lungs hasn't changed, just the amount of oxygen in the blood."

          No it hasn't. Hyperventilating rids the body of more carbon dioxide. It is the build of of carbon dioxide that triggers breathing, not lack of oxygen. I have found that after hyperventilating it is actually beneficial to empty the lungs of air as it assists in reducing buoyancy when diving to 10m - you get there quicker. ~The air in your lungs has a much greater buoyancy effect in the first couple of meters than it does 10m down.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

          "Clara's motivation made no sense at all given that she is the one human to have seen all the Doctor's incarnations"

          Have a listen to the Verity! podcast, there is an intelligent discussion about Clara's reactions and motivations, including the needs of the episode as a whole with relation to the audience. Both sides make valid points.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

            "Have a listen to the Verity! podcast, there is an intelligent discussion about Clara's reactions and motivations, including the needs of the episode as a whole with relation to the audience. "

            I'll give it a go but the audience's needs includes some level of characterisation which rises above the needs of this week's plotline. Otherwise there's no point in having continuing characters. Or watching.

        3. Tom 13

          Re: she is the one human to have seen all the Doctor's incarnations.

          No she isn't. The sum of her splintered selves have seen all of the Doctor's incarnations, but a given splinter would not necessarily have knowledge of them all.

          Granted, I too found it jarring and not fitting with the story. But they've hinted this is to be a somewhat darker Who than we've seen in the past so I was willing to cut them some slack on it.

        4. Annihilator
          Boffin

          Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

          "Badly written episode all round - Clara's motivation made no sense at all given that she is the one human to have seen all the Doctor's incarnations."

          I wondered that too, but then it struck me that she had seen all the Doctor's *past* incarnations up to Matt Smith only. So for her it's a more difficult adjustment to make as she was in the unusual scenario with the impression she had seen all of the Doctor - to find out there were incarnations of him with which she was unfamiliar was harder to adapt to.

      4. coppice

        Re: Did the BBC just troll people?

        "Some reptiles, such as I thing Crocodiles, can hold their breath for amazingly long periods, so is it really unthinkable that she would have that attribute?"

        Reptiles can hold their breath for a long time as they are cold blooded creatures, and don't consume huge amounts of oxygen making heat. Their shared breath would not have sustained the human very long. The plot line has a hole the size of..... er..... well..... a typical plot line.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I sense the viewing figures...

    ... skyrocketing for this episode of Dr. Who on iplayer.

  4. DainB Bronze badge

    Live-saving ?

    Enough said.

  5. Kevin Johnston

    Prior art?

    So did they steal the idea from MassEffect with it's same-sex/different race seduction naughtiness possibility which caused a handbags at dawn moment in Singapore?

  6. Valeyard

    so annoying

    i hate those characters.

    "ooh i'm a lesbian. did i ever mention i'm a lesbian? OOOOOH! YOU MADE AN INNUENDO! CHEEKY! i'm married! to a woman!" it's like really bad panto

    oh stfu with your mockney accent, you're only there as the serious ones for strax to bounce funny lines off

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Re: so annoying

      "Dissolve them in acid."

      "Strax!"

      "Er, not dissolve them in acid."

      1. Valeyard

        Re: so annoying

        and yet no complaints of racism when strax can't tell humans apart from each other or when he was driving the carriage shouts "OUT OF THE WAY, HUMAN SCUM!"

        i'm really offended by the casual portrayal of racism toward my planet :(

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon
          Alien

          Re: so annoying

          ""OUT OF THE WAY, HUMAN SCUM!"

          After hearing that I actually searched online for the T-Shirt. I want one.

          1. Ken 16 Silver badge

            Re: so annoying

            Cunning plan, sir - anyone who does not get out of the way is obviously not human. Much cheaper that SETI.

        2. Kane
          Happy

          Re: so annoying@Valeyard

          "i'm really offended by the casual portrayal of racism toward my planet :("

          What, Gallifrey?

  7. Blergh

    International Chicken

    With the kiss I got the feeling that they wanted to do the same sex kiss to confirm the relationship between the women in the viewers eyes. They said they were married but because they are secondary characters, and therefore don't get the time for tender moments to establish that in the viewers eyes, a kiss was required to confirm the type of relationship.

    The problem however is that not all international markets are as forgiving as the UK and therefore to ensure the scene is not cut in those markets they made it into an awkward "let me give you the air from my lungs" thing.

    If they'd made it a full blown give me a kiss because we're about to die thing. They still would have got the same 6 complaints in the UK and no complaints in any other country because for them they would have had to cut the scene. Ok maybe not every other country, but I can think of one or two large markets where it might have been an issue to show it.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Personally I was more amused by the scene where lizard lady had Jenny provocatively dressed, posing, for no reason other than lizard lady wanted to perv on her. I'm with lizard lady on that one, it was very pleasant on the eyes, although seemed a little out of character for Doctor Who.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      I've seen very little of the series since it was restarted but it seems to me that eye-candy has almost always been there albeit in different forms: from the earnest but still nubile assistants to the more explicitly erotic. Something for everybody's fantasy.

      The episodes I have seen have singularly failed to capture the sense of reaching for the stars that seemed to drive the original series: yes, it was science fiction but it also attempted at times to explain the science of the time. Maybe because you can't keep that up forever and because it gets cheesy at times.

      I guess the real challenge will come when the Doctor returns as a woman. Could be interesting.

      1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

        @Charlie

        What "New Series" are you talking about? If it's Series 8 of the New Era, then that's not surprising, it was the first episode.

        If it's the New Era itself, starting with Christopher Eccleston, then you cannot really categorise it as a single "series", seeing how variable it has been.

        I hope that they can bring it back from the travesty I feel it had become with Matt Smith as the Doctor, but I fear that the problem now is the lack of imagination of the writers. The last seriously good episode in my opinion was "The Doctor's Wife", which was written by Neil Gaiman, not one of the stock writers.

        1. Anonymous Custard

          Re: @Charlie

          Also I seem to have some different memories of the original Who series, especially around the Tom Baker/Peter Davison eras. The former always used to enjoy an innuendo and a letch, plus assistants like Leela (Louise Jameson) running around in basically a bikini for most of it. Plus I think there was a story set on the planet "Kly Torus" or some similar spelling, and at least one monster that looked like an overgrown organic dildo.

          Plus there is of course the famous death/regeneration scene with Peter Davison acting his heart(s) out before bloating into Colin Baker, but all male eyes were drawn to Nicola Bryant's cleavage floating just over his head at the time.

          1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

            Re: @Charlie

            all male eyes were drawn to Nicola Bryant's cleavage floating just over his head at the time

            I think she appealed only to the younger or more lecherous men (of which I was one :-)) to be honest. She wasn't as good as Tegan but the Calamity Jane stuff worked quite well at times with Peter Davison. The costumes and the slightly too blatant sexing it up was an attempt to disguise shit stories and ever wobblier sets. And that was long before Satan's spawn, Greg Dyke, got to the beeb.

        2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: @Charlie

          @Peter

          What "New Series" are you talking about? If it's Series 8 of the New Era, then that's not surprising, it was the first episode.

          I mean all of the New Era - if it's available here in Germany then it's dubbed and I don't do well with that. I've seen a couple of the Eccleston's and a couple of the Tenant's. I appreciate the vastly improved production values (mainly the sets and effects). Dr Who was always a bit hammy and I was never the greatest fan. I guess it could only take the pseudo-science seriously for so long but when I always preferred the thought-provoking episodes over the action ones. The older doctors perhaps had it easier playing the boffin.

      2. VinceH

        [On why Old Who is better than New Who...]

        " yes, it was science fiction but it also attempted at times to explain the science of the time.

        Why does that comment suddenly cause me to conjour up an image of Jon Pertwee sat at a table on which he has constructed something from a tea cup and some coat hangers, and other odd things just lying around, to act as some kind of sensor. I wish I could remember what episode it was, but I can't.

        1. graeme leggett Silver badge

          The Time Monster

          There's worse than than the coathanger gizmo. I think I recall some appalling (by modern standards) sexism as well.

          If you want the science ideas (but not necessarily explanations) try something with Christopher H Bidmead's involvement

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yes, I also found that an interesting scene.

      However, her shallow objectification of women whom she found physically attractive and, in this scene, the desire to use her heavily bossed about wife to titillate her fetish while she did 'serious' work, is hardly a positive image for loving relationships between two equal women.

      1. Fibbles

        is hardly a positive image for loving relationships between two equal women

        Perhaps not, but not all characters in fiction have to be role-models.

  9. MyffyW Silver badge

    Moving on

    I'm glad a same-sex kiss arouses so little shock these days.

    I long for the days when script writers use it primarily to tell a story or develop character. At the moment it does feel a bit "tick the box".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Moving on

      "tick the box"? They didn't show that, did they? Did I miss it?

  10. Trollslayer

    THat episode wasn't about the plot

    But about the characters and this bit was to knock people out of their groove which it did.

    Also if you watched the bit after that the important part about the veil came out. A bit metaphysical but nicely done.

    If you missed it then tough.

  11. SkippyBing

    They were married?!

    Sorry, I didn't realise, there was no effort whatsoever in the rest of the programme to get that message across. Maybe they should have made constant reference to it at the expense of the narrative.

  12. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

    It's a shame no-one complained about the story!

    Derivative, to say the least.

    In my view, this was NOT a good start to Peter Capaldi's term as The Doctor.

    At least it makes it easy to get better.

    1. Tom 13

      Re: It's a shame no-one complained about the story!

      I hate to say it, but I concur. The motivations seemed off, especially for the established characters. The only one who seemed mostly untouched was Strax, but then he is just the light comic relief.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's a shame no-one complained about the story!

        > The only one who seemed mostly untouched was Strax, but then he is just the light comic relief.

        Not only has he become a comedy character so has his weaponry: clockwork robots shot at point blank range with Sontaran blaster but come to life again minutes later.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Six people complain and the news that nothing is going to be done for this 'multitude' of people who fell for the 'shock and awe' news bait (let's horrify middle England and get even more free publicity because we're so brave and only Mary Whitehouse types would complain about Doctor Who) where a lizard female 'kissed' a human female is news.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Six complaints

    Six people with very little else on their minds... Mind you, on another topic, the Beeb reports that among the complaints regarding alleged (and hardly very likely) sabotage on a cooking show, there were demands to have the contestant arrested. There's a sparrow in the garden here with more brains and moral certitude than that.

    Ref - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-28964737

    1. Anonymous Custard

      Re: Six complaints

      On the Bake-Off one, I thought it more amusing that people were demanding that the sabotaged contestant got reinstated, given that the whole series was recorded back in May-June time.

      Makes you wonder that people think series like this (and indeed a lot of other clones of the idea) are recorded day to day or week to week just before broadcast...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Planet of the pudding brains indeed !

    See title...

  16. MrXavia
    Coat

    Forget a same-sex kiss, this was an interspecies kiss! quick, lets lock up the BBC before out kids start dating iguanas!

    1. Suricou Raven

      Does that make Vastra a reverse-furry?

      1. Spleen

        If someone into anthropomorphic animals is a "furry", a lizardwoman with a fetish for non-scaled humanoids would be a smoothie, surely.

  17. Zog_but_not_the_first
    Trollface

    What?

    Would Malcolm Tucker say?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What?

      Omnishambles ?

      1. Anonymous Custard
        Pint

        Re: What?

        Omnishambles ?

        I've got a bet on with a colleague as to whether that word will appear in the script somewhere before the end of the season. My side says it will, and somehow I think I'm odds-on for winning the beer.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Thumb Up

          Re: What?

          Upvoted... I was thinking the exact same thing...

  18. Moosh
    Facepalm

    Personally, I'm more concerned that such a fuss is raised over 6 busy bodies who had nothing better to do than launch a formal complaint.

    6 out of how many viewers?

    It shouldn't even register on the radar.

    1. Seanie Ryan

      judging by how crap the episode was, it was 6 out of 11 by the time the kiss happened.

    2. Rugster

      "6 out of how many viewers?"

      Those same 6 people could be given a million pounds and probably complain about having to carry it home.

      Happens all the time, 10 million people watch something and sometimes as many as a couple of hundred complain. Hmm I am thinking that in a so called democratic society, they are outvoted, move on, nothing to see here.

  19. Fading
    Coat

    So not a real lizard then........

    Full of disappoint.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't understand the reference to lesbians as this is apparently an interspecific sexual interaction. I believe this kind of interaction was made illegal by the last government though I'm not sure if representations of same are illegal, though I would guess they are judging by similar silly laws that have been passed.

  21. Red Bren

    A loving moment between a married couple causes 6 people to complain? What the feck will they think if they watch an episode of Eastenders?

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      What the feck will they think if they watch an episode of Eastenders?

      They'll be too busy hiding behind the sofa.

    2. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Ah yeah, but that's, like, real life, innit? <sniff> Nah't'a'mean?

  22. John Robson Silver badge

    So no CPR on Casualty until the "correct" gender of nurse can be found?

    She hadn't yet passed out, but this was basically the "PR" bit of CPR...

    Although there are many male nurses my experience suggests that they are outnumbered by their female colleagues. So women need to be doubly sure not to require CPR on TV now...

  23. lurker

    Sex Sells

    Basically they need some sex in it nowadays for it to be viable - or at least that's clearly the conclusion they have reached, not entirely sure I agree - and Capaldi is a little old to be flirting with the current intergalactic companion totty, so they felt the need to over emphasise the lesbo-lizard action. A bit heavy handed, but that's modern Who for you I guess.

    1. Fibbles

      Re: Sex Sells

      Nowadays?

      * cough *

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Lesbianism vs. beastiality

    I'm just wondering what they do in bed. That woman does know that reptile have cloacas, right? That's a three-way outlet. Don't think I'd want to go down on one of those myself.

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon

      Re: Lesbianism vs. beastiality

      eww - thanks for that

    2. Spleen

      Re: Lesbianism vs. beastiality

      I really shouldn't get involved in this. But (correct me if I'm wrong, Whovians) she is not a reptile, she's an alien who in some ways resembles an Earth reptile. There is no reason to believe her species' internal plumbing in any way resembles that of an Earth reptile. They evolved completely independently.

      (By the same token the debate over whether lizardwoman can supply breath to her wife via kissing - "no, crocodiles' lungs don't work that way", "yeah, but monitor lizards have air sacs" - is silly. Her species isn't descended from crocodiles or monitor lizards or any other Earth lizard, she's descended from a completely different alien species and she can have whatever biological features the writers feel like.)

      1. Valeyard

        Re: Lesbianism vs. beastiality

        kinda, except they evolved on earth (they were here before us) and therefore would probably share at least common ancestors with lizards including their weird internal plumbing

        but no, not an alien

        1. Spleen

          Re: Lesbianism vs. beastiality

          Cheers Valeyard, I stand corrected.

    3. earl grey
      Unhappy

      Re: Lesbianism vs. beastiality

      Thanks. I'm off my tea now.

  25. juice

    Actually...

    First: Dr Who isn't Sci-fi (and arguably hasn't been ever since RTD picked up his pen): it's fantasy with a bit of technobabble and the occasional[*] Deus-ex-machina thrown in.

    Past there, the kiss scene was pretty blatantly crowbarred in[**], but to be fair, the entire episode was pretty much made up of heavy-handed, self-indulgent and distinctly clumsy set-pieces, most of which were intended to establish this series overarching plot-thread rather than progressing the story at hand.

    So overall, I'd say there's far more worthy things to complain about[***] ;)

    [*] Alright, more than occasional, especially if you throw in the way the sonic screwdriver gets used these days. I was trying to be generous...

    [**] Given that the robots stopped moving instantly when you stopped breathing, the characters could have gulped a breath every 30 seconds and gotten away scot free without any issues at all...

    [***] No, I wasn't impressed. And I am getting bored of footnotes, so I'll stop now ;)

    1. Yugguy

      Re: Actually...

      "Given that the robots stopped moving instantly when you stopped breathing, the characters could have gulped a breath every 30 seconds and gotten away scot free without any issues at all..."

      My thoughts exactly - like those weeping angel statue things, you could risk the odd look or breath in this case.

      TBH the Torchwood and DW writers do seem to like to sledgehammer in these "hey it's great being LBGT!!" constantly. It doesn't bother me apart from I just think "ok, I get it already and it's holding up the ACTION."

    2. Spleen

      Re: Actually...

      "the characters could have gulped a breath every 30 seconds and gotten away scot free"

      Have you ever tried taking a breath only every 30 seconds while you're in fear for your life, full of adrenaline and trying to escape from an underground lair?

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon

        Re: Actually...

        "Have you ever tried taking a breath only every 30 seconds while you're in fear for your life, full of adrenaline and trying to escape from an underground lair?"

        Yep, it's remarkably easy when you know you will die otherwise :P

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Lizards/Dinosaurs x Human sex not illegal

    Having just looked up Sexual Offences Act 2003 I find that effectively only "intercourse" with non- human mammals is banned, so lizards fish, insects etc are fair game. Presumably our lawmakers being somewhat reptilian themselves ...

    1. Kane
      Joke

      Re: Lizards/Dinosaurs x Human sex not illegal

      "Presumably our lawmakers being somewhat reptilian themselves ..."

      You are David Icke and I claim my £10 gift voucher.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    Interspecies same-sex marrage?

    I wonder what view the "National Organization for Marriage" would take on on interspecies same-sex marrage?

    https://www.nationformarriage.org/

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Interspecies same-sex marrage?

      "National Organization for Marriage"

      If you put three of them together in a room would that be NomNomNom?

  28. graeme leggett Silver badge

    Proportionate response?

    So 6 complaints out of a viewership of around 8 to 9 million - seems quite underwhelming.

    How many complained about the portrayals of other things in the episode, eg

    1) setting a non-dangerous T-Rex alight

    2) the Doctor threatening a Victorian homeless person (played by Brian Miller, Liz Sladen's husband if you're interested) and possibly robbing him

    3) Organ-harvesting robots

    4) The Doctor pushing (or not?) a sentinent being to its death

  29. ukgnome

    All these complaints and....

    Not one about the size of the bloody dinosaur!

  30. 303
    Childcatcher

    And yet nothing said about this exchange

    “Madame Vastra: I’m sorry; was I being insensitive again, dear? I don’t know why you put up with me. [Lashes her tongue halfway across the room.]

    Jenny: [Sheepish grin]

    Madame Vastra: [Smirk]”

    1. Spleen

      Re: And yet nothing said about this exchange

      Thanks for quoting that, I must have been making the tea at the time. Great line. Who cares if the lesbians are shoehorned in, that and the "modelling" gag were funny. And you wouldn't be able to get away with either joke if Vastra was a man.

  31. ducatis'r us
    Coat

    Bloody Daleks again this week

    I watched the first episode with low expectations, which were met, right from the appearance of the 300 foot tall T. rex (why and how?). I lost interest when it spontaneously combusted and didn't pay attention to the rest of the episode.

    As a child I remember plots which were challenging (at least to a 10 year old) combined with Special effects which were laughable. Now thanks to CGI the the SFX are really good but the plots vacuous, relying on retreading the same old characters and plot lines over and over, why is it always set on Earth for a start?

    I think I might be 'Who'd out', but I do live in Cardiff home of the program and the 'Dr. Who Experience'. BTW for those of you thinking of visiting the Experience, it's smaller on the inside than it looks on the outside.

    1. Sean Timarco Baggaley

      Re: Bloody Daleks again this week

      [SPOILER ALERT: If you haven't seen the episode yet, look away now.]

      I'm glad I wasn't the only one who wondered about the Godzilla-sized dinosaur. T. Rex – on which the dinosaur is clearly based – only grew to about 40-odd feet tall, which is smaller than the Sovereign's Entrance at the foot of the Queen's Tower. The _really_ big dinosaurs were the herbivores, but even those would have been hard to spot if looking across London over the Houses of Parliament.

      The poor standard of the foley work didn't help: at no point does the dinosaur ever sound like it's standing in the middle of a major river.

      I think the fundamental problem here is that Moffatt just isn't a particularly good show-runner. RTD might not have been able to write a genre story worth a damn, (which is why he kept falling back on soap-style melodrama + comedy), but at least he knew how to produce a show. Even if it did include comedy farting aliens.

      *

      Others seem to be bothered by Clara's reaction to New Doctor™, but I'm not. Although she'd met the Doctor's previous incarnations, she was clearly only aware of regeneration as an abstract concept. Actually seeing someone a good friend, whose life you literally just saved (and got "rebooted" into the bargain), change from Mr. Over-actor into Mr. McFurious right in front of your face—when the space-time machine you're both standing in is also about to crash—is bound to shake you up a bit. She's still a human being.

  32. unitron
    Alien

    So bestiality...

    ...'twixt human and lizardly alien is perfectly acceptable, but only if it's heterosexual bestiality?

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You can tell a Steven Moffat episode

    It's well crafted and engaging, with clumsily shoe-horned homosexual activities.

    I have no preference over gay or straight behaviour in an Dr Who episode, or any other TV for that matter, but Steven is amateurish and ham-fisted every time he adds it in.

    The constant 'Dr Who / Jack are flexible when it comes to relationships - bi, interspecies, hey whatever' is tedious.

    Relationships of any type should be part of the natural narrative, not jarringly bludgeoned into a storyline to satisfy the authors agenda.

  34. David Kelly 2

    Beastiality!

    Lesbian, nothing! Its beastiality! New frontiers for television!

    Oh, wait. Nothing new here. These are long established characters in the Doctor Who universe.

  35. Paul Wells

    Not in the leaked episode?

    I'll have to watch the workprint leak again as I don't think the kiss was in that version. Possibly the BBC were planning on removing it for other countries.

  36. chriswakey

    If they both had full lungs, how could one breath into the other without her breathing out first to clear some room?

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon

      shh, it's only a model

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    Weird sex ..

    I just recall 'Battlestar Galactica' had some varient of interspecies procreation, as in one of the humanoid Cylons got pregnant by one of the humans. And in 'Lexx', Zev Bellringer was a half cluster lizard/half love-slave who had sex with Kai, a 2000 year (old) dead man. A disembodied robot head called 790, also had the hots for Kai. Once upon a time, that would have seemed weird to me.

  38. Mage Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Agenda

    BBC seems to care more about promoting LGBT than actually decent plots / Stories any more. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with "promotion of LGBT" but if you think it is your mission surely it should not be amateurishly shoe horned into kids programs. Well Dr Who used to be for kids long ago.

  39. Mage Silver badge
    Alert

    Bestiality

    Philosophically is a sentient entity who isn't Homo Sapiens a beast? Surely only sexual activity with Beasts (Animals) is Bestiality and a lizard like sentient being is something not quite envisaged in past Moral codes. Or was it?

    It's not clear who the "benei ha-elohim" and "ha-nephilim" were. Maybe Eric Von Danken claims they are Aliens, I don't remember.

    The Koran and Hindu writings have strange beings.

    Greek Myth has Zeus as Bull seducing a woman.

    http://www.desy.de/gna/interpedia/greek_myth/zeusLover.html

    Genesis 6:1-4

    "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God (benei ha-elohim) saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. There were giants (ha-nephilim) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God (benei ha-elohim) came unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men (ha-gibborim) which were of old, men of renown."

  40. razorfishsl

    surprised they went for the 'lesbian' angle in their complaint, would have been more productive to go 'bestiality', or do the British viewing public view lesbinanism worse?

  41. Matthew Taylor

    I've nothing against gay rights, each to their own and all that. However it seemed like Moffat was pushing the gay agenda at the expense of the story to me. It seemed gratuitous. And the whole dinosaur roaming london thing was a bit to much like a story primary school kids would make up in the playground. All a bit over the top. V. Poor, in my view.

    A shame mind you, as I was looking forward to Peter Capaldi as the doctor.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not sure about Capaldi...

    Really thought I'd like him as Dr. Who as I've liked him in everything else he's ever done. Watched it. A bit unimpressed and disappointed really, lizard kiss notwithstanding. Does the internet agree, or should I give him more of a chance?

  43. Snark Boojum

    Not racist

    Might be casual speciesism, he's not human !!

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like