back to article Microsoft refuses to nip 'Windows 9' unzip lip slip

Microsoft is putting on its poker face amid growing rumors that it plans to unveil "Windows 9" at the end of next month. For weeks and weeks now, it's been speculated that Redmond's next major operating system release, known thus far by its code name "Threshold", will make a public debut in 2014: it's believed Microsoft will …

  1. FrankAlphaXII
    WTF?

    Apples and Oranges (or Windows, I guess) much?

    What exactly does a desktop/laptop OS made by Microsoft have to do with a new iPhone? Pardon me, but I don't see the connection. MS is not exactly competing with an iOS device through a version of traditional Windows. If it was a version of Windows Phone then yes, it would be foolhardy to launch a product in that market segment immediately following new Apple products.

    If Apple was unveiling a new OS X version or even new Mac hardware then it might be cause for delaying it, but since full fat Windows has little to nothing to do with an iDevice, I see no reason that the launch of new iDevices would affect the launch of a new Windows version at all.

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: FrankAlphaXII

      "What exactly does a desktop/laptop OS made by Microsoft have to do with a new iPhone?"

      Headlines and deadlines. It'll be interesting to see the two go head to head for coverage, if they happen at the same time.

      C.

      1. Khaptain Silver badge

        Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

        I don't understand the competition either.

        Apple are going to pull a "yet another iPhone - much like the last one and a lot like the next one" out of the hat.

        MS are going to fail miserably at covering up the W8 catastrophy and short of pulling a W98 menu out of their hat it is likely to simply come over as an apology.

        Either way the two subjects' appeal, or lack appeal, to two very different user groups.

        This is like comparing Ford bringing out a new pickup truck at the same time as Sikorsky showing of their latest helicopter....

        As for the headlines/deadlines obviously I am only going to be interested in one or the other and in my case it will be the Windows Apology. ( Would love to see Bill up on the stage - the ANdel, Noddel, Nandel,Noodela, whatisname guy just doesn't cut the mustard.)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

          So they're really going to go back on what they said about how the full screen menu was the best thing they've done?

          Every single Microsoft employee, shrill, and fanboi ranting & raving about how amazing it was, and the rest of us were just stuck in the times, resistant to change, etc.

          You think Microsoft have finally listened to what their real users have been shouting on MSDN since the very first preview - only to be told to STFU?

          Can you imagine it? "behold! after 2 years of research - we have invented what we believe to be the best way to launch your applications: A start men.. er.. start panel!"

          Maybe they'll begrudgingly give us our precious menu back, all right - but look at the "leaked" screen shots! It's just the metro screen squashed into a 3rd of the screen, ffs! Giving us by the minute weather, stock, and facebook/twatter updates.

          1. Khaptain Silver badge

            Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

            MS can wrap it up any way that they please, it will not change the fact that they fucked up and have a lot of ground work to do in order to repair this sorry state of affaires.

            As has been mentioned in the forum, a lot of people simply want the choice, they want an either/or situation. Choice between the Old menu or the New , what they don't want is an imposed system.

            MS have tried a little with 8.1, they will probably do a little more with 9 but it will still remain an apology, wrapped up in some Buzzword Bingo speech.

            Have they listened to their users, maybe a tiny little bit but they probably have listened to their "financial experts/shareholders"... who want to see figures improving/advancing.

            Windows 8 was part of the "One OS to rule them all" process that hasn't quite made a hit. ie it has made nothing more than a tiny ripple.

            But now MS have the shitty positon of trying to repair their mess, of squirming out of the rathole and hoping to rebuild user/shareholder confidence.

            If they don't use W9 as an apology and pull some magic out of the hat then the share prices will probably start to drop and that hurts, a lot...

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

              Rebuild shareholder confidence? Have you SEEN our stock price recently? Highest it has been since the nineties! No issues with shareholder confidence!! At all!!

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

                "our"?

                1. Cipher
                  WTF?

                  Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

                  Yes, telling wasn't it. Always go slow and preview a post such as this would be good advice methinks...

                  1. DF118

                    Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

                    Or maybe it wasn't a mistake. I used to work for them and I spent every lunch hour reading and commenting on sites like the Reg. Maybe AC is perfectly happy to openly admit s/he is a Microsoftie, and all your pointing and going "HA!" is just that and more.

              2. Creamy-G00dness

                Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

                "Our"??

                Sorry but Apple is not a football team.

                1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

                  Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

                  Sorry but Apple is not a football team.

                  No, it's a cult.

            2. chivo243 Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

              Maybe if they listen to the users feedback, the shareholders would benefit. If you have a stable OS with a simple to use interface, maybe people would buy it? And then the shareholders would profit? Oh, wait, this is planet earth, logical thinking like this will get you in trouble.

              Have a pint and forget your troubles!

          2. b166er

            Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

            As I understand it, Windows 9 will configure itself according to the hardware it's installed on and give you the option to change the default if you like.

            It was remiss and arrogant of them not to offer that option in 8. It also didn't help that ODMs didn't make much of an effort with touch-screen laptops (a shame really, hope it still catches on, after all, it's good to have the option of touch).

            It just reinforces the understanding that you skip a release and then wait for service pack 1 :D

        2. danny_0x98

          Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

          Your're right about this: not competing products in nearly every sense.

          But, Apple's announcements and iPhone releases get attention from blogs to tech to general press. So there's that. On release weekend, a lot of press will be talking about first weekend sales, saying it was enough or it wasn't enough or the polka dotted one was a disappointment because, well, who needs actual numbers to pronounce? There will also be first weekend discussion of how quick the top one sold out and then further contention as the flame-fanners argue over sales growth or withheld delivery to simulate popularity. In short, iPhones will get a lot of ticks in the news cycle twice next month.

          That said, I see a release date guess of the 19th from the writers I respect. It is also the last month of Apple's 4th Quarter. I think two weekends of the new, shiny, as last year, would be preferred.

          If September 30 is a Windows announcement, it will get attention. (If. Microsoft makes phones, right? They wouldn't have laid off the Nokia person who remembers that it's good to have new consumer-pleasing product at Christmas time, yet, right? Shouldn't we get a new Lumia or two?)

        3. Zed Zee

          Re: Apple's Yawn and Windows Apology

          Apple are becoming like Nintendo every day.

          Slightly different hardware platform, same software franchise.

    2. Vic

      MS is not exactly competing with an iOS device through a version of traditional Windows

      They're competing for cash.

      Contrary to the beiief of many marketroids, punters do not have infinitely deep pockets. Whilst the overlap between iPhone buyers and W9 buyers might not be as large as for certain other combinations of stuff, there will undoubtedly be some people who are the targets of both marketing campaigns.

      Vic.

      [ Who isn't the target of either campaign... ]

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Back to the future.

  3. SineWave242

    I think it's about time that Microsoft start copying all the Linux desktop environments like Xfce or maybe KDE 5 or Gnome 3. :) They are, after all, best at copying others' ideas and making people pay through their noses for that.

    1. RealFred

      Which in turn copy Microsofts and Apples desktop metafore. So what exactly is your point. Everyone copies everyone else's ideas, its nothing new amd Open Source has been a major copier of anything and everything they possibly can get away with.

    2. IJC

      No point in copying anything from a Linux GUI. Microsoft only copy things that are successful.

      Just look at how Microsoft has beefed up Powershell over the last few years to give the Linux sysadmin types a command line to play with.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        >>> Just look at how Microsoft has beefed up Powershell over the last few years to give the Linux sysadmin types a command line to play with.

        Lol, true.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

          Something useful in Windows Administration? It only took 25 years.

      2. Hans 1

        @IJC

        >Just look at how Microsoft has beefed up Powershell over the last few years to give the Linux sysadmin types a command line to play with.

        I like powershell, I hate the CMD.EXE shell app with a passion, though ... it sucks. No tabs, weird keyboard shortcuts for copy & paste, crap to resize..... I just need a handle to that crap to throw it out the window, or at the window cleaner who's in the way.

        Powershell is great, connecting via ssh from *nix

        1. Anonymous Bullard

          Powershell is not a bad scripting language. I find the way you pass objects interesting, it makes some things easier, plus it's the only one on Windows that almost works out the box.

          However, as a shell (command prompt) - it's just nasty. You must be a big MS fanatic to want to put up with it.

        2. HipposRule

          No tabs

          What was the last version of cmd.exe you used?

      3. illiad

        and IJC works for MS.. :) :P

        successful?? take a look at how 'known' linux was a few years ago.. now almost everyone knows what ubuntu means... :)

        successful? look at nokia.... MS thought they were onto a good thing... that is why they sacked 18,000, most of them ex-nokia employees.... :/

        powershell?? dunno who uses it - certainly not those in offices, or at home...

    3. Hans 1

      @ SineWave242

      >I think it's about time that Microsoft start copying all the Linux desktop environments like Xfce or maybe KDE 5 or Gnome 3. :) They are, after all, best at copying others' ideas and making people pay through their noses for that.

      You know Cygwin ?

      http://x.cygwin.com/screenshots/cygx-xtow-alphademo-20130805.png

      or

      http://x.cygwin.com/screenshots/cygx-rootless-openbox-20031224-0010.png

      Ok, screenshots show crappy XP, but I am sure you could get that with 8 as well ...

    4. Nigel 11

      Open ...

      What part of free and open source don't you understand? Microsoft is completely welcome to take any or all of the Linux desktops and to use them commercially. They'd just have to comply with the GPL. Principally, they'd have to make the source of any modifications they make available on the same terms as the source they started from. And if they went beyond "mere aggregation" and integrated parts of (say) Gnome into the Windows kernel, like they presently integrate parts of the Windows GUI into the Windows Kernel, then they'd have to open-source the Windows Kernel as well. All of it.

      It won't happen any time soon. It wasn't so long ago that Microsoft was trying to argue that the GPL was unconstitutional or suchlike (I vaguely recall them calling it "communist"). Give them another twenty years to come around (if they last that long... Oracle Windows or Google OpenWindows seem less unlikely at present! )

  4. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    WIndows 8, SP2?

    We'll have to wait to see what arrives but the timing suggests that this is the more polished version of Windows 8.1 and not a major re-write.

    I'm not a great Win8 fan but watching the kids use it, it's clear that Microsoft got the interface right for the next generation of users. I don't really like the touch interface myself - at least not on a non-touch-PC - but I can make it work and I'll be very interested to see what this new version looks like given that they appear to be listening to their user base. Regardless - there's a huge pent-up demand for a new version of Windows that will work in the business / desktop environment and if they can get this right then they'll have another winner.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

      there's a huge pent-up demand for a new version of Windows that will work in the business / desktop environment

      Really.

    2. Ken Darling

      Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

      it's clear that Microsoft got the interface right for the next generation of users

      All the next generation users I know are predominantly using Android devices, with a few using iOS. I know of none who are using Windows 8.x.

      The wife, on the other hand - a current generation user - does have a Win8 laptop, with Classic Shell installed, but uses the touch features only to scroll up and down pages, and nothing more.

    3. Paul Shirley

      Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

      "it's clear that Microsoft" took "the interface right for the" previous/current "generation of" Android&IOS users, dumbed it down some more then slapped it on devices it didn't belong on. Hardly the interface of the future, this is MS trying what it used to be expert at - stealing other peoples bandwaggons.

      But because they slept right through the rise of tablets and smartphones then persistently ignored customers as they tried to catch up, this time they dressed up the product as something new but forgot to steal what makes it work!

      Worst of all it's not hard to improved on IOS or Android. I spent this week struggling with an Android TV box and its absolutely inept UI using remote controls, there's plenty of scope to do better. MS chose not to even bother.

    4. DrXym

      Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

      The primary complaint about 8.1 is in a relatively small portion of the code base - how applications are launched and what should the OS do for people who prefer a more traditional experience (i.e. something akin to the start menu).

      Once you go beyond that 8.1 is a mature and stable operating system. I expect if Microsoft were to produce some form of mini metro that users could choose to pop up instead of a full screen from the start button that most of the objections would taken care of. At the same time allow metro apps to live on the desktop and be proper peers of "classic" apps. At that point I think they'll have cracked it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

        But the look and feel is, to most people, the OS.

        If they cared about the OS core, and not the UI.. then we'd all be using Linux.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

        Just let us have Win7 interface as an option at installation time.

        Easy peasy.

        All problems solved

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

          If you want a Win7 interface, then use Win7.

          Don't like it? tough titty

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

            I do use Windows 7.

            For those of us old enough to still think of an OS as the OS, and the UI as the UI (i.e. separate bit linked entities), Windows8 (the OS) has many significant improvements, therefore many of us would like the benefit of these improvements, without the unnecessary imposition of a broken UI.

            There is not one Windows8 machine where I work, and we are an MS partner, build software based on Windows tools etc. etc. Those of us who tested it, binned it in very short order. We are a software development company peopled by windows developer nerds, so this result, given the skewed sample space is telling.

    5. a53

      Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

      An o/s you have to work at to make work ? No thanks, I thought it was supposed to be the other way round.

    6. MacGyver

      Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

      "it's clear that Microsoft got the interface right for the next generation of users."

      Yep, in the future if the need arises for people to use their fingers to fling things or mash the screen a certain number of times, we'll be all ready. There is no doubt that simple people can do simple tasks with a tablet OS, but there is a reason that no one invented the sausage-interface-wand before now. Trying to use a meat-stick to control precise movement is inefficient, well for anything other than throwing birds at pigs.

      There is a simple solution to the 'Win8 GUI sucks' problem and it will solve itself. We only need to wait for the programmers at Microsoft to try to make the next version of Windows while using it. The huge hits to workflow and the unfriendliness of the current OS will have to be addressed at that point.

      I blame Sinofsky.

      1. Vic

        Re: WIndows 8, SP2?

        but there is a reason that no one invented the sausage-interface-wand before now.

        We tried it in the '70s. We called it a "light pen" back then, but it's functionally little different from a touch interface (aside from bing necessarily single-touch).

        It wasn't very successful because it's ultimately not a very nice interface except for a few specialised situations...

        Vic.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Their cloud first mobile first OS. Apart from MS, who else is shitting it? Will they give us back our desktop, or are they destroying it even more?

    They only released Win8 two years ago. Where 7 was out for 4 years before it's (so called) successor.

  6. Daniel B.

    Meh.

    The real question for the new Windows is: "Will I get back the Start Menu and a Disable Metro option?" which is probably what most Windows users are asking. If the answer's no, expect it to flop.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Meh.

      Having spent a while using a touchscreen win8 device, my problem is this - there aren't enough programs available in Metro to make it a viable alternative. So you spend your whole time skipping back and forth between Metro and the desktop view, and instead of pressing the large finger-sized buttons in Metro you find yourself desperately trying to tap the tiny 'normal' sized buttons on windows in the desktop.

      The charm bar works fine, if you're using a touchscreen but it is an absolute pain if you're using a mouse. The same goes for app switching. I think that it Microsoft had delayed the Win8 release for 12 months to allow manufacturers to build more touch-ready devices and had put the effort in to getting more programs ready for Win8 (Mozilla have given up developing the Metro Firefox, for example) we wouldn't all be haterz.

      1. SolidSquid

        Re: Meh.

        If they were just to add an option that let you open desktop mode apps in fullscreen mode (the F11 one) and then switch straight back to Metro when you close them it'd be a huge improvement on the user friendliness of Metro. As it is, even on the tablet I have the interface is awkward as hell to work with

    2. DrXym

      Re: Meh.

      The answer is probably you will get a mini metro launcher with tiles and some options which appears when you hit the start button. I think most people would be perfectly satisfied with that.

  7. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    S.O.P.

    This is S.O.P. (Standard Operating Procedure) for Microsoft. When they release a failed version of Windows, they claim the next version is coming out *real* soon now, just a few more months now... for however many months or years it takes them to get the next version ready. Regarding Windows 9 being ready (or a test version being ready), I'll believe it when I see it (being reviewed online or whatever) and not a day earlier.

    The thing that always amazed me about this technique... and indicates Microsoft's continued anti-competitive abuse of monopoly position*, is that a normal company ("company A"), if they say "something much better is coming out soon!" usually *decreases* sales as people hold out for that better model, or buy from someone else if their product seems a bit ahead "company A"'s model.

    *Not 100% monopoly, but for anti-trust purposes a "monopoly" is generally defined as >90% of the market, and abusing this position to maintain and extend this monopoly, for example by making agreements force-bundling their software with almost every PC sold and not honoring the license clause saying the software can be returned for a refund.

    1. Daniel B.

      Re: S.O.P.

      a normal company ("company A"), if they say "something much better is coming out soon!" usually *decreases* sales as people hold out for that better model,

      It's hard to decrease Windows 8 sales as they have already been pretty low as it is. People are holding out on W8 already, keeping to their old iron. However, there is a slight skew on numbers because people buying Windows7-loaded PCs are actually buying a "Windows 8 license with downgrade rights" so it adds up to the W8 count, even though W8 isn't even being used.

      MS is even doing this with their sales numbers as of late with the Xbox division. They know the Xbox1 is flopping so now they report "X Xboxes sold" lumping 360's and XB1's into a single group. The empire is sinking, but MS has a lot of cash reserves and OS lock-in so the double-whammy won't kill them. They have all the time in the world to roll out a decent Windows version. However, the Xbox division might actually end up being a casualty if things keep going the way they're going.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: S.O.P.

      It's a bit like a good cop bad cop routine. I often wonder if they've got two separate development teams, one crap one and one not quite so crap one. The crap one has produced Windows 98, ME, Vista and W8, the not quite so crap one W95, XP and W7. Now it's the turn of the not quite so crap one to produce W9. Let's hope there's an upgrade path from W7 making it possible to miss out the nightmare of W8 altogether, but I won't hold my breath...

      1. Nigel 11

        Re: S.O.P.

        The crap one has produced Windows 98, ME, Vista and W8, the not quite so crap one W95, XP and W7

        Don't you have 95 and 98 transposed? 95 was crap. 98 was like XP: not brilliant on its first release, but by the time it got to 98SE it was quite acceptable for its time.

        (I once ran 98SE in a VM on modern-ish hardware, just for old time's sake. If you want to see an OS boot really fast, try it yourself. And no, it didn't crash within a minute. )

    3. Nigel 11

      Re: S.O.P.

      The other part of the SOP is to keep the last good one (XP, then Windows 7) working and available to corporate customers until the new good one is well-accepted. Provided they don't kill Windows 7 before an acceptable Windows "9" is well-established, they'll survive. (Though they really should have kept XP on life support as well, once the complete corporate unhappiness with Windows 8 became apparent).

  8. ratfox
    Happy

    Should be a good one

    Since it's an odd number. Right?

  9. John Savard

    Underwhelmed

    Somehow I can't get excited over Microsoft deciding it needs to slap a price tag on what should have been Windows 8.2, or, better yet, Windows 8.1 Service Pack 1.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Alien

      Re: Underwhelmed

      You mean copying Apple??

      Regarding the queues of fanbois waiting in line for their new shiny toy - hasnt this got something to do with the fact the non replaceable battery in each phone lasts almost EXACTLY the same amount of time between Apple iPhone releases???

      I think we should be told.

      Alien, after all Apple execs are from another planet!!!!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Underwhelmed

        Quote

        Regarding the queues of fanbois waiting in line for their new shiny toy - hasnt this got something to do with the fact the non replaceable battery in each phone lasts almost EXACTLY the same amount of time between Apple iPhone releases???

        Can we have some real data on your last point? {Citation please}

        If you can't prove that then perhaps you are doing a wee bit of trolling?

        My main phone is a Nokia 6310i. It needs to have its battery replacing every year. My company phone is an iPhone 4S and it still on its first battery so I beg to differ from your opinion.

        1. Anomalous Cowturd

          Re: Underwhelmed

          If your Nokia 6310i needs a new battery every year, you might want to try genuine Nokia batteries.

          My 6310i backup phone still runs for a week on its original 2002 battery.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Underwhelmed

        We're not on about Apple here. People love them, so they don't mind paying.

        Most of us here are pissed off with Windows because we have to use it, and constantly have to upgrade and cough up for them to fix crap that was quite loudly raised during beta.

      3. <shakes head>

        Re: Underwhelmed

        my 4s battery is still fine 3 years on

      4. a53

        Re: Underwhelmed

        The battery lasts at least 3 years which strangely is about the same length of time before I'd quite like a new one.

    2. Daniel B.
      Boffin

      Re: Underwhelmed

      Probably even sadder is the fact that "Windows 8" is actually "Windows 6.2". Windows 7 is "6.1", the last "major" revision was actually Windows Vista with "6.0". Also, Win8.1 is version 6.3 which implies that 8.1 was actually a bigger jump than what its commercial version is willing to admit.

      At least Apple keeps their major/minor versions in sync; you can actually map Darwin versions to OSX versions instead of having complete mismatches as MS has with their Windows versioning...

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wonder

    What else they will break?

    That is a flippant but somewhat serious question.

    I believe Microsoft gets some bad press from those they tire out. If yesterday a button or command was available to do some change and today it is missing, hidden, reversed in operation, the long term user may ask "what was the purpose of that particular defenestration?" if the logical answer comes back "just to make it look like someone, or some group is making changes” then there could understandably be a feeling of distrust or disappointment.

    I know to be seen as a valid stock market investment they need to grind relentless with “I'm exited to be presenting...” ideas but they should not loose sight of the fact that business needs to just “get on, you know”, for those not in the market to sell operating systems they are pretty tedious things once they get in the way.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I wonder

      > What else they will break?

      That's the question I've been asking myself on every release since Win2k.

      The Apple fans have it good - excited and looking forward to their next update.

      The Linux croud don't care if their next release it shite, they'll always have a choice.

      But what do we get with Windows?? Every single release it gets dumbed down even further, in order to capture the next wave of the population.

      Sometimes I think they make it shite on purpose, just so we rush out to buy the next release.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 9?

    Looking into my crystal ball I see a further push on metro, but a slight retreat on the start 'menu' front. Deeper and deeper integration to OneDrive and Skype and further Cloud Computing 'advancements and enhancements' paving the way for Windows 10 rebranded to just Windows chaning into a subscription only paid on a monthly basis or you don't get security patches....

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Windows 9?

      That's pretty much my thoughts on it too.

      Maybe by Windows 10 it will just be a couple of MB of network drivers, enough to netboot the remote OS running on Redmond servers, along with all the apps, everything rented by the minute. Saas being joined by OSaaS.

      1. Nigel 11

        Re: Windows OSaaS?

        And then their cloud goes down, and any business dependant on Windows is as dead as if it had just been EMPed. Maybe they'll fix it in time. Maybe, not. (Worst case, they discover that the cloud has come to depend on the cloud in a circular self-referential manner ... an SFnal apocalypse scenario that scares me more than nuclear war).

        It may take a few more relatively small cloudbursts to drive the message home, but I don't see mission-critical SaaS ever catching on.

  12. HipposRule

    Start Menu

    What is it with people and the start menu. I use Win7 and almost never use it. Any apps I use are either on the taskbar (frequently used ones) or less frequent ones on the desktop. Once in a blue moon ones are on the start menu.

    We've just been doing a Win8 build for a tablet rollout and I haven't missed it at all (and the only Metro apps we're using in that are the camera and Reader)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Start Menu

      Oh! Well, if it's good enough for you.. then what are the majority of us complaining about?

      People use it differently. The demand isn't to make it work "our way", it's simply: "stop dictating, and let me choose"

    2. Shaha Alam
      Trollface

      Re: Start Menu

      you have icons on your desktop? how very windows 98.

  13. David Roberts
    Coat

    Early adopters prices?

    I got two copies of W8 64bit to replace Vista 32bit at the promotion price and for Windows that still seems a pretty good deal.

    No big issues using W.8.1.1 with Classic Shell and there is even a useable email client.

    So if they offer really cheap copies of W9 I would be interested for older boxes to become part of the network. W8 and W7 sem to play nicely together.

    I'm currently locked into Windows because of essential third party applications.

    Which is an intersting area which hasn't really been explored here, as far as I can tell.

    Most companies still seem to write for Windows (as the major consumer plarform) with possible an IOS version as well.

    Linux is still well off the radar.

    Android still doesn't have consistent support for USB peripherals - that is you don't get a master port as standard, you need an adapter and hope the particular build supports your third party peripheral.

    So until there is plug and play for a wide range of devices (one of mine is a blood glucose monitor) there will always be a tie in to Windows.

    So I suspect most of the grumbling about W8 will gradually go away as market forces push people to newer hardware.

    Until Android migrates upwards to the x86 desktop/laptop and brings the Play Store with it (the reverse of what MS are trying to do) then Windows will remain the only game in town for most users.

    Mines the one with the Android phone and tablet in.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Early adopters prices?

      We were also tied to Windows due to 3rd party components, which couldn't have been written/supported in house.

      Last year, we had a large and loyal client who's moving away from Windows, and insisted on a Linux deployment (or they'd go elsewhere, basically). We ported our stuff, and used Wine for our ball & chain 3rd party components. If there's a will (£££), there's always a way.

      Of course, we're always having to "port" our stuff to the next version of Windows. A constant pain and worry when there's a snifter of a new release.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yawn

    I really can't be bothered any more. Microsoft have treated it's core users with such contempt since Win 8 release. Thanks to their arrogance, I no longer care about the next Windows. Even if Saddam Nutella, or whatever his name is, swung bollock naked festooned with flashing Christmas tree lights from the top of the Empire State Building to promote it.

    The Register can talk it up any way they want by trying to create some non-existent faux par. "New" iphone, "new" Windows? Just more of the same with nothing new worth getting excited about.

    1. Anomalous Cowturd
      Thumb Up

      +1 for Saddam Nutella!

      I'm stealing that.

      :o)

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: +1 for Saddam Nutella!

        Somebody must shop a cover of The Economist with Saddam Nutella and SCARY HEADLINES.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 9?

    Strangely, I had to repeat it with a Belfast accent...

    Echoes of calling a Microsoft help desk years ago and trying to understand the number of the issue that a young lady was screaming at me, or just because I don't see much use for it unless it is a complete turn back to the desktop, dropping the notro ugliness?

  16. Anonymoist Cowyard

    Windows 7.1

    But personally, Microsoft can go screw themselves. For me, it's no longer about the quality (or lack of quality) of their products, it's their business ethics (or lack of) that mean I won't ever buy ANY of their products ever again.

    1. Nigel 11

      Re: Windows 7.1

      Amen. If you've finally managed to get clean from Microsoft addiction, there's no way you'd ever want to go back. (But as with opiate addiction, getting clean is far harder than anyone ever admits).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 7.1

        Yep. It gets to the point when you step back and think:

        Why am I handing money to these people, hand-over-fist? I don't even enjoy their stuff, and their business practices has disgusted me for a while.

        The whole purpose of their OS + ecosystem is to extract as much money from us as possible, and their whole release schedule and feature removal/adding strategy is tweaked accordingly. While that isn't a bad of MS to do, I just don't want to be the cow that's getting milked.

        Since I tried the Win8 preview (and VS2012), I've moved to Mint. I feel free in so many ways, I can't put it in words.

  17. Natalie Gritpants

    Windows 7 End of Life

    Wouldn't having WIndows 9 and WIndows 8.x on sale mean that Windows 7 would be the third oldest OS version and that Microsoft would not have to maintain it anymore. I may be wrong but XP has been shot and Vista is on the naughty step and if a new major revision comes out that will mean Vista will be dead and Windows 7 not recommended anymore?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 7 End of Life

      I know...

      We'll have no choice but to upgrade, and we've only just got W7 bedded in. The good old Microsoft tread mill.

      sigh...

  18. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

    Complete this series...

    Windows 3.1 good

    Windows 95 bad

    Windows 98 good

    Windows ME bad

    Windows XP good

    Windows Vista bad

    Windows 7 good

    Windows 8 bad

    Windows 9 ...

    1. Anonymoist Cowyard

      Re: Complete this series...

      bad.

      Everything Microsoft makes these days is substandard crap.

      1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

        Re: Complete this series...

        Everything Microsoft makes these days is substandard crap.

        I've actually grown to rather like Win7, and VS 2012 is nice once you turn off monochrome mode and change the registry to stop all the menus shouting at you.

        Don't get me started on Orifice Office and its numerous iterations of confusing and contradictory UIs though...

    2. Nigel 11

      Re: Complete this series...

      Missing, in parallel with Win98 and WinME:

      Windows NT good

      Windows 2000 bad

      and then rejoin Windows XP good.

      It wasn't actually quite like that. Windows NT 3.51 was a curate's egg: very good in some parts, not very good in others. Definitely a server product not a desktop one. Windows NT 4.0 fixed the not very good parts at the cost of deeply compromising the very good parts. And Windows XP initial release was really just ongoing development of Windows 2000 which in turn was not very different from Windows NT 4.0.

    3. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Complete this series...

      > Windows 7 good

      No.

      I am just running it in a VM and I always dread the moment I need to make sense of that filesystem mess AGAIN .... and AGAIN. And then you want to configure something .... and then you are fisted painfully by the cmd.exe obscenity ... and then Trusted Installer lets loose ...

      [Click click VM shutdown]

    4. Daniel B.

      Re: Complete this series...

      Actually that list is missing a couple of entries where the good/bad cycle does fit perfectly:

      Windows 3.1 good

      Windows 3.11 bad (I'd say, AWFUL, especially with DOS 6.22 that broke DoubleSpace.)

      Windows 95 good

      Windows 98 bad

      Windows 98SE good

      Windows ME VERY bad

      Windows 2000/XP good

      Windows Vista bad

      Windows 7 good

      Windows 8 bad

      Windows 9 …

      YMMV with Windows95 though.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    just cannot buy anything built by this company ever again.

    Not only did they give away every backdoor key to every gov computer in this country, the always on upgrade makes them root your box like stealing candy from kids using a simple button click.

    Why continue to support your own future destruction by a third world country.

  20. mark jacobs
    Coat

    Windows 8.1 is good!

    I agree, Windows 8.0 really threw me at first. I had to install Classic Shell just to be able to use it properly. However, after the upgrade to Windows 8.1, and discovering an almost perfect "Start" menu by right-clicking the new Start button, I no longer need or use Classic Shell (uninstalled it), and have set the Metro screen background to the same as my desktop, arranged the Metro screen to display all programs and shortcuts in one, name-ordered, scrolling screen, and set it to boot up into the desktop (all accessible under the Navigation tab under right-click empty taskbar area, properties), then, I have an almost perfect working environment. With my SSD-based OS drive, it boots in under 10 seconds! Support for massive (larger than 2TB) drives and huge expanses of memory (beyond 32GB), means that Windows 8.1 is a serious developers' environment and OS of choice. Go with the flow.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Windows 8.1 is good!

      Large memory? Large disks?

      > Windows 8.1 is a serious developers' environment and OS of choice.

      I hope that was all sarcasm. But I fear being disappointed in the new generation of developers.

      > Go with the flow.

      No thanks, I dislike diarrhea.

    2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: Windows 8.1 is good!

      How old was your previous OS that a 2TB HDD was "massive" and 32GB of RAM a "huge expanse" that posed some sort of problem?

      As opposed to today, with being needed just to get the damn thing to work...

      1. mark jacobs
        Coat

        Re: Windows 8.1 is good!

        Yeah, sorry about that. I didn't mention minimum requirements for 8.1 so here they are :-

        50PBytes RAM

        32767EBytes Hard Disk (SSD only)

        200K X 130K pixels minimum display resolution (yes, I'm measuring in K now, but it will be M soon - don't worry, we're getting there...)

        Sycophantic attitude to M$ an absolute pre-requisite

        ...

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Conflict with Apple's launch

    Maybe Microsoft thinks Windows 9 will be able to overshadow the iPhone 6's launch. I don't think they can, but the people making these decisions have been with Microsoft for many years, and still remember the days when people lined up at midnight to get Windows 95 and probably think they can recapture that magic.

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