back to article Get ready: The top-bracket young coders of the 2020s will be mostly girls

The latest GCSE results have shown that more girls are getting top marks at computing - while fewer boys are getting an A*. Results released today show that 8.6 per cent of girls achieved the top mark of A*, an improvement on 2013 when 8.3 per cent managed to get the best grade. Boys, on the other hand, have flopped since …

  1. Owain 1

    Damn statistics

    If less girls are taking the subject, but are receiving higher grades, then it stands to reason that perhaps they are only taking the subject if they are personally more interested in taking it, whereas perhaps more boys are taking it without being that interested, e.g. if their mates are also doing it.

    While running code club at school, I find we get fewer but keener girls, and more boys but some of them are just there to mess around with games.

    1. Jim 59

      Re: Damn statistics

      Lol. The engineers' eternal dream. That girls will one day be interested in what they do, appreciate what they do, and want to do it with them. Give it up. In this sex area, career choices have nothing to do with exam results, or even ability.

      Girls will only become top drawer software engineers if they are obsessive - obsessive enough to stay up all night programming, for example, as I have, and maybe you have too. How many women do you know who would ever do that ?

      About a third of my A level maths class ('86) were girls, and good at it. And the teacher was a woman. In my engineering degree course a couple of years later, only 2 out of 60 or so students were girls. Why ? Why did the girls, experts in maths and physics, ignore engineering almost entirely ? They weren't refused, or railroaded, or forced. They chose. They chose biology, economics, teaching, humanities, basically anything that wasn't engineering. (Again, it is down to interest and aptitude, not ability).

      Try the following experiment. Chat to your wife/mother/niece/milk lady about

      - hydraulic rams

      - cores structure of the latest Intel chip

      - transformer cooling

      - horses

      See how it works yet ? Sigh. I think this is just the way of the world.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Damn statistics

      Good news. There is always coffee to be made and washing up to be done...

  2. a well wisher

    Is that why the governments head of the recent 'coding' project for schools/education is a girl ?

    Oh no - she hadn't a clue !

    http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/02/tory-boss-of-government-coding-education-initiative-cant-code-lottie-dexter/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      And the head of Defence can't drive a tank, the head of the Education can't teach and the head of Finance most likely can't run a hedge fund...

      Oh and the guy in charge of our (very profitable) multinational IT company can't use Linux.

      Your point is?

      1. heyrick Silver badge

        Your point is?

        Wow, this is almost too easy.

        Quote from yearofcode.org : It is really simple to learn and anyone can do it It's right there on the front page.

        She, the woman heading up the project, cannot code. What does that say about something apparently so simple anybody can do it?

        1. alwarming

          Re: anyone can do it

          anyone can != everyone will

          1. dotdavid

            Re: anyone can do it

            I think the "anyone can code" is a bit like the "anyone can cook" from Pixar's Ratatouille movie.

            "In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, "Anyone can cook." But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist *can* come from *anywhere*"

  3. DavCrav

    No.

    "Get ready: The top-bracket young coders of the 2020s will be mostly GIRLS"

    Brush up on your maths, perhaps?

    8.6% * 2568 = 221 A* girls.

    6.0% * 14205 = 852 A* boys.

    So (roughly) a 4:1 ratio of best-performing boys to girls.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No.

      My reaction exactly. "Maths is not your strong suit Jasper" was my first thought reading his article.

      1. Charles Manning

        "Maths is not your strong suit Jasper"

        If he was any good at the tech stuff, he'd be doing it - not writing about it.

    2. qwarty

      Re: No.

      Indeed, although even a growth to 4:1 translated into the practicing developer space would be a significant step forward on the path to gender equality. != mostly - what a daft headline.

      1. Craigness

        Re: No.

        @qwarty gender equality does not mean what you think it means. If people are given the same opportunity then they are equal. Individuals who are members of a group which is less represented in a particular sphere cannot claim inequality by dint of other people within their group preferring to do other things. For an example you might be able to identify with, consider that the vast majority of medical students are female but nobody says men are unequal in the application process.

        1. ratfox

          Re: No.

          I assume his definition of gender equality means that about the same proportion of every gender should prefer to go into coding… Implying the reason for the current imbalance is that society at large is telling girls that women are not good at coding, and they should become nurse/housewife/stripper instead.

          And yeah, it's all very fine to give everyone the same opportunity when people laugh at you if you try to take it.

          1. Craigness

            Re: No.

            Society at large is not telling girls they're bad at coding though. It's putting a lot of effort into encouraging girls to go into coding and zero effort encouraging boys to be doctors, psychologists, teachers, even coders.

    3. Randy Hudson

      Re: No.

      Evidently, Jasper is not part of the 6%

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Because passing an exam is like doing it in the real world

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      @AC

      "Because passing an exam is like doing it in the real world"

      I can see the downvotes but I actually agree with you. Male or female I found the education available was lacking and exams dont teach the real world but to test memory. Step up the education system and people with an interest in IT can actually get into it. And accept that IT is an umbrella term for such a wide range of applications and specialities which should be aimed at anyone with real interest.

  5. phil dude
    WTF?

    GCSE bollocks...

    GCSE Science....

    WTF?

    The sample questions on Grauniad made me feel very sad for the takers...

    P.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Skills versus career choices

    Girls may do better than boys in GCSEs, but that doesn't necessarily translate into girls choosing a computer related field as a career, or programming as a particular computer related field.

    People don't always choose what they're best at for a career, but what they think they'll like doing more, will make them more money, will have better hours, etc.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Skills versus career choices

      Yup, I was an ace at Biology...but ended up in IT (which I failed at school)

  7. Dave Cross

    But these figures are about the ridiculous ICT GCSE. That's all about using computer software. There's no programming in there at all. So these figures say nothing at all about the kinds of people who will get jobs as programmers.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      >But these figures are about the ridiculous ICT GCSE. That's all about using computer software.

      So a more accurate headline would be:

      "The top-bracket young Word users/secretaries of the 2020s will be mostly GIRLS"

  8. Steve Knox
    FAIL

    "You can look at the results for ICT as well as computing below."

    If you want to strain your eyes looking at an incredibly small, blurred screenshot.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Any IT/Programming job that can be done remotely, which is many or most, will be done remotely from India or China or Egypt or ... by the time nine or ten year olds in NA and Europe are graduating from high school.

    Oh, a much greater percentage of Business jobs than are now being outsourced overseas will be going to those same locations by then as well.

  10. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Trollface

    Top trolling

    So what exactly were those "ICT" questions?

  11. Craigness

    Sexism

    "Men worried that they will no longer be able to fart and watch porn at work"

    Are you unaware of the efforts to rid tech of this sort of sexism? Oh, wait there aren't any.

    1. Arctic fox
      Happy

      @Craigness Re: "Sexism"

      Well funnily enough although I consider myself to be a reasonably redblooded male the thought of a workplace driven by farting and porn movies for some odd reason does not attract me! :P

  12. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Boffin

    What do we want from Coders?

    If you want 'code-slaves' who follow the specificatino to the n'th degree without daring to questioning obviously crap ones then frankly we don't have a chance. Besides, there are a gazillion of them in India just crying out for these jobs.

    If we want smart developers who will do a proper job the IMHO it does not matter a whoot who they are but once again, I think we are doomed. Universities are churning out people with qualifications but do not have a clue about how to use them in reality. Recent Grads I have interviewed were useless at one key skill and that is problem solving. Out of 20 candidates only two had even half a clue about problem solving.

    Frankly, we are doomed.

    1. phil dude
      Coat

      Re: What do we want from Coders?

      Here's white board, ( )prove ( )show how you would code ( )draw phase diagram for - X (* select one)..

      Seems to work for most candidates with a brain....

      Ironically, seems to detect those most suited to management too...

      P.

      1. amanfromarse

        Re: What do we want from Coders?

        Seriously, WTF is a phase diagram?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: What do we want from Coders?

          >Seriously, WTF is a phase diagram?

          It shows the range of temperatures and pressure at which beer and tea both exist in a drinkable form.

        2. phil dude
          Boffin

          Re: What do we want from Coders?

          chemistry, physics,and many other disciplines...

          The point is the "code" is not the only parameter here...

          There is other "knowledge" required.

          P.

    2. Dr Scrum Master
      Headmaster

      Re: What do we want from Coders?

      which is why I object to the term "coder" other than for people translating questionnaire results and the like for data entry

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Good for them

    It is time that the other sex gets their fair share of the blame being put on coders for all those rubbish apps.

  14. hammarbtyp

    Good

    As a bloke, I am quite happy to have more women coders if it means less testosterone driven one-upmanship and back stabbing.

    Nowadays teamwork is the important thing and having a diverse team ensures we get a better range of inputs

    Thats all...

    1. GrumpyOldBloke

      Re: Good

      Yes, we can all look forward to the estrogen driven one-upwomenship and backstabbing.

      Be careful what you wish for.

  15. psychonaut

    equality

    i drive a bmw. everyone knows bmw drivers are assholes. so i go out of my way to be nice to people when i drive, that is the only way i can influence others peoples perception of bmw drivers. its the only way i can personally bring BMW drivers to be more equal in the "percentage of bmw drivers that are assholes " equality stakes. i can directly influence the number of arseholes who drive BMW's by one. by doing it myself.

    if you want to go on, as a white male/ white woman / black woman / pakistani male / black male etc etc oh god the permutations go on and on, about there not being enough of "them" or "you" in x,y,z then go and do x,y or z and get the numbers up by one.

    ok, this is on the fly here, but so , what about the percentage of people who drive pink BMW's?

    so lets say they produce 10 colours. should there be 10% of bmw cars that are pink? of course not. should we consider enforcing every 10th bmw is pink? no. why arent 10% of bmw's pink? because people are different. groups of people are different. they actually are different in what they like and what they choose

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: equality

      Frankly, I think you are being racist to pink BMWs.

    2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Beemers are old hat

      The new arsehole drivers are those driving an Audi. The worst IMHO are Black TT's.

      I've found most BMW drivers are very polite. No I don't drive one. I drive a 10yr old Saab.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Beemers are old hat

        "The new arsehole drivers are those driving an Audi"

        Is it our fault that everyone else seems to drive in our lane of the motorway? I bought an Audi, and you get a book that explains what the flashing lights on the side of the car are for (apparently they're a stupid legal requirement and can be ignored).

        1. a well wisher

          Re: Beemers are old hat

          On a recent era of Audis, a year or two back, the design of the rear indicators was reduced to such a small slit to make them almost ineffective even if they were activated by the wet bag in the drivers seat (IMHO)

  16. BongoJoe

    I pity this future generation of girls. Having to deal with mindless pointy haired bosses and middle managers promoted above their ability.

    Wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

  17. Anomalous Cowshed

    Evolution of GCSE grades in Britain

    2040 REPORT

    The following table charts the tremendous improvements in Britain's educational system over the past 80 years, through the grades achieved at A-level:

    1960 - 10% A, 20% B, 30% C, 40% D and below

    FAIRLY AVERAGE AND RATHER THICK

    1970 - 8% A, 22% B, 35% C, 35% D and below

    STILL FAIRLY AVERAGE AND RATHER THICK

    1980 - 12% A, 20% B, 27% C, 41% D and below

    YET AGAIN FAIRLY AVERAGE AND RATHER THICK

    1990 - 17% A, 25% B, 30% C, 28% D and below

    STARTING TO IMPROVE

    2000 - 30% A, 35% B, 30% C, 5% D and below

    BECOMING CLEVERER

    2010 - 55% A, 40% B, 5% C, 0% D and below

    AMAZING, HISTERICAL PERFORMANCE

    <introduction of new A* grade! Yippee!>

    2014 - 5% A* 80% A, 15% B, 0% C and below

    TREMENDOUS ENTHUSIASM ABOUT THE NEW GRADE - A NEW CHALLENGE!

    2020 - 80% A*, 15% A, 5% B and below

    WOW, IT'S OFFICIAL: MOST SCHOOL PUPILS ARE BRILLIANT!

    <introduction of new A** grade! Wowee!>

    2030 - 57% A**, 23% A*, 20% A and below

    THIS SHOWS THAT TODAY'S PUPILS CAN RISE UP TO ANY CHALLENGE

    <introduction of new A*** grade! Wowsers!>

    2040: EVERYBODY gets an 'A'.

    MOVE OVER EINSTEIN, OUR KIDS ALL GENIUSES!

    NB: I hereby acknowledge and own up to the fact that all the above figures are grossly inaccurate - Please be understanding. Signed: A. Cowshed

    1. Zog_but_not_the_first
      Headmaster

      Re: Evolution of GCSE grades in Britain

      So, have people been getting smarter?

      Signed - Fairly average and rather thick.

  18. dan1980

    "Men worried that they will no longer be able to fart and watch porn at work after the coming fem-tech revolution might take comfort in the fact that boys are currently doing better at A-Level."

    That's also good news for journalists and opinion piece writers who may have been worried that they would no longer be able to make sweeping, sexist, generalisations about an entire industry.

    Dodged a bullet there folks!

    The the story, however . . .

    First, let's put aside the fact that a slightly higher percentage of a much smaller number is not larger than a slightly smaller percentage of a much larger number, as has been pointed out, above.

    Instead, let's assume that there really are more girls than boys getting an A in computing. For the headline to be true, there must be a causal connection between getting an A in computing and being a "top-bracket young coder". So far as I can see, no such connection has been provided. You might say that them getting an A makes them 'top-bracket' but, given the headline says "of the 2020s", this is timeline (6 years from now) implies that it is looking at these same students after they graduate secondary school and then university and begin their careers.

    This is, of course, then negated at the end of the article with the quote provided above - that boys do better in their A-Levels.

    Which brings up the question - what is the author trying to say with that headline? And why? It seems that more-and-more*, you have to read the sub-heading to actually get something approaching an accurate description.

    * - With the exception of the usually excellent down-under bureau.

    1. JeffUK

      What the author is trying to demonstrate, is that he's been asked by an editor to jump on the 'Exam results' bandwagon, so had to make something out of the IT results regardless of whether there's any real story.

  19. ChrisJC

    Coders

    Please can we call people who write computer programs programmers?

    Being called a 'coder' is an insult. It bring up images of idiots in films hitting keyboards like infinite monkeys.

    Chris.

    1. A K Stiles

      Re: Coders

      Please! It always frustrates me when you apply for stuff like car insurance and they give you a box for job description so you try writing 'developer' and it says "do you mean 'property developer'?" so you try 'software developer' and it doesn't have a match, and eventually you plump for 'computer programmer' because apparently a mental image of a giant rack of lights and flip switches is still the sum of what some of us do.

      My last job was ostensibly developing in-house systems, but it was a small company so it included 1st line support, sys-admin stuff, kicking printers, rewiring sections of the office, changing the fuse on the toaster in the kitchen and shifting desks around. Couldn't find the correct job title in the list so I was a 'computer programmer'...

      In my world view:

      coder / programmer - takes a detailed spec and translates it into a programming language.

      developer - takes a very fuzzy set of wish-list requirements and tries to create a semblance of a spec from it, get that agreed, beats their head against the keyboard repeatedly until they have a system closely matching the spec, then repeatedly rebuilds chunks of it because that isn't actually what they wanted / needed, stuff is in the wrong place, etc.

      1. dotdavid

        Re: Coders

        I prefer the term "byte herder". It has an air of pastoral tranquility that I find soothing.

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