back to article Israel snooped on John Kerry's phone calls during Middle East peace talks

Israeli spies are alleged to have snooped on John Kerry’s phone calls during recent Middle East peace talks. The IDF tapped the US Secretary of State's unencrypted calls while trying to broker a ceasefire between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, Der Spiegel reports sources as saying. Kerry used both encrypted and open …

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    1. g e

      Or maybe

      Add 5% to all their car exports cos the Yanks will still want Mercs, Porches, Audis and BMWs.

      Fund the program from that and make the Yanks pay for for their own countersurveillance

    2. Tom 13

      I'm quite certain Germany spies on their allies. They're just better at keeping they yaps closed about it than the rest of us are.

      And if I'm wrong about that, they damn well better start. I expect them to be circumspect about their activities in support of keeping their country together, not stupid.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Who says Germany doesn't spy on their allies?

      Germany? Yeah, I believe them as much as I believe the US assurances that they will stop wiretapping Merkel.

      Governments have been spying on both enemies and allies since bibical times. Only the hopelessly naive would believe an assertion from one of them that they are not.

      1. DocJames
        Thumb Down

        Re: Who says Germany doesn't spy on their allies?

        So Germany, having reunified and forged a country with the knowledge that 20% of their population* was engaged in spying on the others, decides that it will organise its foreign policy around spying on others? I suspect not.

        * East Germany only. 20% of their population were Stasi informers. Essentially all humans can be corrupted in such ways; the Germans decided that this should not be possible/encouraged.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Who says Germany doesn't spy on their allies?

          So Germany, having reunified and forged a country with the knowledge that 20% of their population* was engaged in spying on the others, decides that it will organise its foreign policy around spying on others? I suspect not.

          Your faith in humanity is adorable.

          Essentially all humans can be corrupted in such ways

          While that's an unprovable proposition, experimental and historical evidence does suggest that the probability that a person can't be induced to spy on others is indeed low.

          the Germans decided that this should not be possible/encouraged

          Your previous clause contradicts "possible", and history (and psychology, and critical thinking) suggest "encouraged" is highly dubious.

          Governments are very good at espousing ethical positions. They're very poor at practicing them.

          And, of course, governments are not homogenous monoliths. The vast majority of German government officials might take a sincere, principled stand against spying on allies; it takes only a few realpolitik SIGINT types to go ahead and quietly do it anyway.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wouldn't be surprised if the calls were left unencrypted intentionally so Israel could tap in. Saves time as it can take a while for the CIA & NSA copies of everything to get posted back to the Israeli intelligence forces.

    1. Tom 13

      That assumes intelligence and some respect for another countries permanent interests. Kerry displayed no signs of any of that during his trip, so I'll put this one down to stupidity and arrogance too.

      1. BillG
        Meh

        That assumes intelligence and some respect for another countries permanent interests. Kerry displayed no signs of any of that during his trip, so I'll put this one down to stupidity and arrogance too.

        I'll have to agree. For years Kerry had the luxury of basking in the shadow of the late great Ted Kennedy. But after Teddy died and his vast accomplishments were proclaimed to the world, everyone looked at Kerry and said "So what have YOU done?" An embarrassed silence followed.

        As a Secretary of State, Kerry is a seatwarmer.

        1. disgruntled yank

          ??

          John Kerry ran for president while Edward M. Kennedy was still alive. No, he did not win, no he did not play a bad hand with the best of skill, but he won his party's nomination, something the previous secretary of state has not yet managed.

          And in any case, he has the Dibertian managerial qualities of hair, height, and Harvard, right?

      2. h4rm0ny

        Encryption has two ends and Hamas is not exactly in a comfortable secure environment surrounded by undamaged infrastructure. It says the calls were a mix of encrypted and unencrypted. I expect the USA used encryption whenever they could but had to make some calls in imperfect situations on a number of occasions.

        After all, it's not as if Israel is going to be very helpful in allowing the USA to talk privately with the Palestinians if they can help it.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Not all friendly countries routinely spy on their allies. Germany for example..."

    Amongst countries of global significance (say the G20) I'd suggest they are virtually alone. And if you defined a G60 things wouldn't change that much.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    should the SS + heads in charge be medically analysed for excessive paranoia

    A threat is one thing but I think if this was any of us going to this extent we be locked away in some mental institute.

    Just wondering if this should be a basic part of taking on such roles - routine check ups on sanity

    Afterall isn't that what caused all the issues with Germany back in WW2?

  5. Tom 13

    I don't think "tapped" is the correct word for what the Israeli's did.

    "Tapping" implies the addition of a device to the communications link. I believe satellite communication data is simply captured, no tapping required. The recording of such data is relatively simple and impossible to prevent. Yes, Mossad could have sent a black ops team to a data center and tapped the data stream from an Earth bound relay, but why? That's all risk for very little if any advantage.

    1. Bloakey1

      Re: I don't think "tapped" is the correct word for what the Israeli's did.

      Tapping is the nearest word that we have. No physical device was used or perhaps one should say attached but the signal was intercepted for nefarious purposes. It was actually SAHAL (IDF) that did the interception and not MOSSAD. Mossad is for foreign / external operations, the nearest internal analogue would be SIN BET, so for interception withing Israel SIN BET would handle it [1.].

      It is interesting to note that Israel has a higher access level to intelligence than the 5 eyes. I have seen many secret documents in my day, many that mentioned access to the 5 but never one that indicated Israel had access.

      1. SIN BET does operate in the 'territories' and Lebanon.

      1. Tom 13

        Re: I don't think "tapped" is the correct word for what the Israeli's did.

        No you went straight to a better word when you defined "tapped": intercepted. And because it is intercepted without either delaying transmission (as would be the case if you intercepted a courier) or trespassing on foreign soil, is not as high a level breach as those operations would be.

        Thank-you for the correction on SIN BET and the explanation.

  6. AbelSoul

    Goose-Kettle, Pot-Gander, etc...

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Germany......linked to France.

    The germans have capabilities, from France. The two countries share SIGINT costs and ops.

    France has got all the dishes dotted around in its overseas territories...

    A bit like nuclear power, Germany has none, but plenty of them on its borders...:-)

  8. browntomatoes

    Listening in, but not listening

    They may have been listening in but it seems miscommunication/not listening to what was actually being said was one of the problems which led to the process breaking down. See e.g. this very interesting article detailing the whole saga (which incidentally mentions the assumption made by the Americans that their phones were being listened to)

    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118751/how-israel-palestine-peace-deal-died

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Listening in, but not listening

      To be fair, I get the impression that Netanyahu is set permanently to transmit only. No amount of spying will tell him anything.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Big Brother

      Awful Newrepublic article

      @ browntomatoes: "See e.g. this very interesting article detailing the whole saga"

      Inspired by the school of new journalism, written in the the style of a work-of-fiction, a novel, aka faction and therefore, for a news story, virtually unreadable. Don't get me wrong, it can work if done by a Tom Wolfe or a Truman Capote. But attempted by a lesser hand it turns out awful, like the example above. How about just reporting what happened, in the sequence it happened and who it happened to. ref

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Germany......linked to France.

    Actually, Germany has spying, albeit from France. The dishes are in French territories in the world and Germany pays for some of the upkeep!

    A bit like the nuclear power plants, none in Germany but plenty around its borders....

  10. cortland

    Of COURSE they're eavesdropping; there's some doubt Kerry is an honest broker, having evidently . fallen for the ."Jews are worse" meme.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Big Brother

      Kerry fallen for the "Jews are worse" meme?

      @cortland : 'there's some doubt Kerry is an honest broker, having evidently . fallen for the ."Jews are worse" meme.'

      I don't know what that bit means - but. According to the Israeli Defense Minister, John Kerry is obsessive and messianic and we all know what they did to their last Messiah :)

      "Secretary of State John Kerry - who has come to us determined and is acting out of an incomprehensible obsession and a messianic feeling - cannot teach me a single thing about the conflict with the Palestinians", Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon ref

  11. Someone Else Silver badge
    Devil

    What goes around, comes around...

  12. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    Oh dear it seems even their *closest* "alie" spy on the US...

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Because only the stupid could not see that one coming.

  13. dan1980

    It doesn't really matter what Israel does. US public sentiment, at least from the most vocal and influential lot, is firmly pro-Israel. While many other nations see victims on both sides and far more grey area, the Bible-believing, pulpit-pounding, Christian political machine in the US sees Israel as right and Palestine as wrong. End of story.

    Oh, they can see and lament the "humanitarian crisis", but any talk from the right is laden with criticisms that Obama is not supporting Israel enough or is "anti-Israel".

    In truth, Israel doesn't have to do much to influence North American sentiment because so many already believe that complex geo-political issues stretching back even before the creation of the state of Israel (and certainly before the existence of Hamas - a mere generation ago) are irrelevant when laid next to a holy book that they believe is the ultimate arbiter of world affairs.

    I have 'no dog in the fight' and, like most right-thinking people, just wish they would all stop fighting and killing each other. But, it is indicative of American sentiment that it routinely uses its veto power in the UN in favour of Israel, in exactly the same way that it complains that Russia does for Syria.

    Israel, in this regard, is similar to Syria, in that it can behave like a bully because it has a big, powerful ally standing in the corner. Whatever the administrator of the United States thinks about the situation, support for Israel is strong enough 'at home' that not supporting them would have about the same backlash as trying to ban firearms.

    And that gives Israel a lot of confidence to do, well, nearly whatever it wants.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      "And that gives Israel a lot of confidence to do, well, nearly whatever it wants."

      Also much like Syria.

      I guess the suppliers won't have to worry about a dip in sales of White Phosphorous any time soon.

    2. dan1980

      Sorry, that should have been "the administration of the United States".

      One of the perils of being in IT - my fingers have built-in auto-correct.

  14. solo
    FAIL

    Listening

    Are Israel and Hamas listening? really? Oh yes, it's quiet a calm now

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