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back to article ONE EMAIL costs mining company $300 MEEELION

In January 2013, a chap called Jonathan Moylan sent a single email that caused an AU$314m - £174m or $295m - dip in a coal company's value. The email was a fake press release stating that Whitehaven Coal's bank, ANZ, had decided not to lend the mining firm the billion or so dollars needed to open a new pit. Moylan's message …

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  1. Ross K Silver badge
    Windows

    Ball Ox

    Justice Davies of the New South Wales Supreme Court rated Moylan's actions as mischievous, rather than malicious.

    My 8-year old is mischievous.

    This guy's a 26-year old man who knew what effect his actions would have.

    Good to know the Aussie legal system is as braindead as its UK cousin.

    47 18 Reply
    1. tfewster
      Reply Icon

      Re: Ball Ox

      Whatever you think of his actions, he didn't get off lightly. He was convicted of the charge they found to throw at him and was sentenced to prison (suspended) and fined. The judges comments were on the sentence, not the conviction.

      P.S. I didn't downvote you, so here's an upvote to balance it

      8 19 Reply
      1. Keith 21
        Reply Icon

        Re: Ball Ox

        "Whatever you think of his actions, he didn't get off lightly."

        Lightly is EXACTLY how he got off!

        A slap on the wrist and told "Now don't do it again" is what he got.

        12 3 Reply
        1. Thorne
          Reply Icon

          Re: Ball Ox

          The real problem is that giving him a slap on the wrist, the next self appointed wildlife warrior will do the same and expect the same.

          The only good thing about it is hopefully the stupid media might bother to check their facts first from now on.....

          4 1 Reply
          1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Ball Ox

            "The only good thing about it is hopefully the stupid media might bother to check their facts first from now on."

            The media will probably just check against Wikipedia, which is easy enough to manipulate

            0 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ball Ox

      It is just as well that this didn't take place in the US. All manner of charges including Interstate Wire Fraud, Securities Fraud etc would have been thrown at the perp. I would have expect 15-25 years in jail for this crime if it have been done in the USofA.

      20 0 Reply
    3. Tom 35
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      Re: Ball Ox

      Good thing he didn't guess some politicians email password.

      3 2 Reply
    4. mathew42
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      Re: Ball Ox

      It may have been reasonable for Moylan to assume that his hoax would be quickly uncovered (within an hour) and that at best the hoax would have rated an item on the evening news.

      14 13 Reply
      1. Steven Raith
        Reply Icon

        Re: Ball Ox

        Matthew, that might have been true, had he not knowingly lied about it being a hoax to anyone who called him on the number he provided:

        "That number was Moylan's own, so when journalists called to confirm the details of the fake press release, Moylan simply told them it was all kosher."

        Kosher = legit = true.

        So he deserves a punishment. To be fair, if he is of limited (aka average) means, then a suspended sentence and a four figure fine is probably about right. But he certainly didn't let people just believe what he put in the email off his own back - he confirmed it as the truth pretending to be a representative of the companies involved, which is direct fraud when you take the very, very obvious stock market changes into consideration.

        If he does it again, though - he wants jail time.

        Steven R

        16 1 Reply
    5. unitron
      Reply Icon
      Headmaster

      Re: Ball Ox

      He only *knew* what the effect of his actions would be if he *knew* that the press would swallow it hook, line, and sinker, rather than actually do their jobs and verify before publishing, and that investors would accept whatever they published as gospel rather than doing any checking into it themselves.

      Granted that's a pretty safe bet these days, especially the press part.

      1 1 Reply
      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        Reply Icon
        Devil

        @ unitron -- Re: Ball Ox

        Granted that's a pretty safe bet these days, especially the press investors part.

        FTFY

        0 1 Reply
      2. Steven Raith
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        Re: Ball Ox

        Unitron - that's simply too much obfuscating stupidity to claim at trial.

        If you're clever enough to spoof a press release, and maintain the ruse when queried on it, you're clever enough to know the potential adverse side effects of said ruse.

        To claim otherwise is simply naive, and offensive to anyone with an IQ over 75. Which is likely why he was advised to plead guilty - so as not allow the opportunity to utterly destroy that claim in open court.

        Steven R

        0 0 Reply
  2. Gordon 11

    Headline wrong?

    It didn't cost the mining company much at all, as it wasn't trying to sell itself at the time.

    It may have cost some others something though, as is mentioned in the story.

    35 1 Reply
    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Headline wrong?

      Exactly. It cost some pension funds and small investors $300 million (because hey guess who is gonna hold the bag in the end on "trader's" losses).

      14 1 Reply
      1. Tannin
        Reply Icon

        Re: Headline wrong?

        Those investors and speculators were happy enough investing in a high-risk company, in a high-risk market sector, in a type of business that will be deservedly history before too many more years go past. The very fact that they were spooked by a trivially simple little trick shows just how close to the edge that business is. By all means feel sympathetic to them if you wish, but don't overdo it: they went into a high-risk investment of their own free will, and the fact that they were willing to invest in one of the most harmful industries of all demonstrates that they (the investors & speculators) had no concern or care for other people - so why should we care too much about them?

        The hoaxer was in one sense very lucky to get off with such a modest penalty - the maximum penalties for stock market manipulation are very serious. On the other hand, in this country fair-dinkum shysters in flash suits and plush offices who get caught defrauding multiple millions for no better reason than greed generally get let off with token penalties, if they even get prosecuted at all, so in another sense this bloke can think himself a bit hard done by. Unlike most stock market frauds, he at least meant well.

        Last point: what the hell is a pension fund doing putting money into a dodgy high-risk investment like this anyway? If that was my pension money these turkeys were managing, I'd be screaming mad at them.

        36 26 Reply
        1. DavCrav
          Reply Icon

          Re: Headline wrong?

          "Those investors and speculators were happy enough investing in a high-risk company, in a high-risk market sector, in a type of business that will be deservedly history before too many more years go past. The very fact that they were spooked by a trivially simple little trick shows just how close to the edge that business is. By all means feel sympathetic to them if you wish, but don't overdo it: they went into a high-risk investment of their own free will, and the fact that they were willing to invest in one of the most harmful industries of all demonstrates that they (the investors & speculators) had no concern or care for other people - so why should we care too much about them?"

          Let's go line by line, and go through the bullshit.

          "Those investors and speculators were happy enough investing in a high-risk company, in a high-risk market sector"

          It's only high risk because someone fraudulently attempted to manipulate its stock price. In this case, every company is high risk: send a press release saying you are calling in a business's loans and see what happens. It's fraud, he deserves the book thrown at him.

          " in a type of business that will be deservedly history before too many more years go past."

          Better not buy another computer. Where do you think metal comes from?

          "The very fact that they were spooked by a trivially simple little trick shows just how close to the edge that business is."

          As I said above, mock up a press release saying the SEC is investigating the directors of company X for fraud or X's banks are calling in their loans and watch what happens.

          "By all means feel sympathetic to them if you wish, but don't overdo it: they went into a high-risk investment of their own free will, and the fact that they were willing to invest in one of the most harmful industries of all demonstrates that they (the investors & speculators) had no concern or care for other people - so why should we care too much about them?"

          I hope all your savings were in the investment fund that got hosed by this.

          30 17 Reply
          1. Tannin
            Reply Icon

            Re: Headline wrong?

            DavCrav, the point here is that the fake press release made sense to investors, which is why they panic-sold, and the reason it made sense is that the coal industry in the 21st Century is living on the edge of doom. Everybody knows (or should know) it won't go on much longer - not as a growth industry with huge profits - and everyone knows that it is starting to run into significant difficulties raising finance. In the main this isn't because of ethical investors going elsewhere (though that is a factor as well, of course), it is because of the high business risk. Just today, as an example, the Australian business newspapers are reporting that the Carmichael project in the Galilee Basin - planned to be the biggest coal mine in Australia, the world's biggest coal exporter - is in doubt because of difficulties raising the finance. (That's not me saying that, it's KPMG.) Coal is no longer a safe, boring investment. There *might* be money to be made in new ventures still, but with slowing worldwide demand growth and lower market prices plus competition from both gas and the renewables sector, plus the inevitability of carbon price increases, coal shares are high-risk and not something the ordinary investor or pension fund should be considering.

            10 12 Reply
            1. Ross K Silver badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: Headline wrong?

              the coal industry in the 21st Century is living on the edge of doom. Everybody knows (or should know) it won't go on much longer - not as a growth industry

              @Tannin:

              You conveniently ignored my post about Australia's dependence on coal for electricity generation.

              There is no other option - as long as Australia needs electricity, it will also need coal unless it embraces nuclear power.

              You sound like you're in denial.

              16 2 Reply
              1. asdf
                Reply Icon

                Re: Headline wrong?

                >There is no other option - as long as Australia needs electricity, it will also need coal unless it embraces nuclear power.

                In 50 years at most it will have to. Nuclear has a bad name right now but give it a decade of drought pretty much anywhere and nuclear starts not looking that bad. Coal's days as a major energy source are numbered.

                14 0 Reply
                1. Ross K Silver badge
                  Reply Icon

                  Re: Headline wrong?

                  In 50 years at most it will have to. Nuclear has a bad name right now but give it a decade of drought pretty much anywhere and nuclear starts not looking that bad. Coal's days as a major energy source are numbered.

                  <joke>They could take a leaf from America's book and invade a coal-producing country like Poland?,</joke>

                  The problem with nuclear is that the Aussies won't want to deal with the spent fuel.

                  You think they're uptight about coalmines? Wait til they need to dig a nuclear waste repository...

                  4 0 Reply
                  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
                    Reply Icon

                    Re: Headline wrong?

                    If only there was somewhere in Australia with very few people, some of the oldest most geological stable rocks in the world, bugger all groundwater - and a local high tech mining industry.

                    Failing that they could always just dump it in Tasmania - nobody would notice, Or in Canberra - nobody would care

                    11 1 Reply
                  2. Naughtyhorse
                    Reply Icon

                    Re: deal with the spent fuel....

                    Why on earth not? they have fuckin tons of empty space to dig a hole in, not like France for eg

                    2 1 Reply
                    1. Ross K Silver badge
                      Reply Icon
                      Facepalm

                      Re: deal with the spent fuel....

                      Why on earth not? they have fuckin tons of empty space to dig a hole in, not like France for eg

                      @Naughtyhorse.

                      Yeah, that's all there is to it. Dig a hole in some empty space. Why didn't I think of that?

                      Pangea Resources (aka BNFL) was lobbying to dig a hole in some empty space back in the late 90s. There was so much backlash that two new Acts were passed prohibiting the storage of nuclear waste.

                      0 1 Reply
          2. P. Lee
            Reply Icon
            Stop

            Re: Headline wrong?

            No it's high risk because they are gambling on stock price fluctuations, rather than investing in the company and looking for a dividend return based on the company's profits. Company profits are unaffected by the event.

            If the pension fund was gambling, that's no better either. Anyone who knows the company, and is investing in the company will know what they are doing and could hold their nerve. Those investing in stock as a commodity would have been burnt.

            Don't gamble. Certainly don't gamble with other people's money. That's what causes big bubbles and big losses.

            6 4 Reply
        2. Ross K Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Headline wrong?

          On the other hand, in this country fair-dinkum shysters in flash suits and plush offices who get caught defrauding multiple millions for no better reason than greed generally get let off with token penalties, if they even get prosecuted at all, so in another sense this bloke can think himself a bit hard done by.

          When will people stop using the bankers as an example by which they excuse their own wrongdoing?

          Comparing one arsehole's behaviour to another arsehole's bahaviour does not compute.

          Unlike most stock market frauds, he at least meant well.

          Did he mean well? His action seems fairly malicious to me...

          Oh, you mean it was ok for him to target a coal mine because of his environmental beliefs?

          I wonder if he knows that 70% of Australian electricity comes from coal fired power stations?

          Perhaps he could make a real statement by going to live in a cave with some candles.

          30 4 Reply
          1. Cipher
            Reply Icon

            Re: Headline wrong?

            Ross K asked:

            " Oh, you mean it was ok for him to target a coal mine because of his environmental beliefs?"

            Excellent question.

            His actions were a crime regardless of who he targeted or why.

            Would everyone's position on this be the same if the target was a risky green energy company? Or perhaps a firm making life saving medical equipment?

            Remember that a precedent may well have been set by this court. Your cause may be next...

            17 1 Reply
          2. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Headline wrong?

            "When will people stop using the bankers as an example by which they excuse their own wrongdoing?"

            When they're punished? It's called "justice" and it means that everyone is treated equally by the law. Bankers are still stealing and defrauding and being allowed to get away with it. The very next day after being caught in the Libor mess, Barclays set up the Dark Pool specifically to feed lies to their customers. Because they weren't really punished over Libor.

            Until they're stopped there is no moral basis for punishing other people for doing the same thing. That's just the way it is.

            As to this particular story: some money moved from some gamblers' accounts to other gamblers' accounts. No money was actually lost, especially by the company who didn't own the shares!

            7 7 Reply
            1. LucreLout
              Reply Icon

              Re: Headline wrong?

              @Robert Long. So much fail in just one post... It's almost impossible to comprehend how someone can say so much and yet know so little...

              "The very next day after being caught in the Libor mess, Barclays set up the Dark Pool specifically to feed lies to their customers. Because they weren't really punished over Libor."

              From this we can deduce you a) don't understand libor, b) don't know anything about Barclays, c) don't know anything about dark pools generically or Barclays dark pool specifically.

              "No money was actually lost, especially by the company who didn't own the shares!"

              And we can no also deduce that d) you don't understand finance at all.

              How much a company is charged for borrowing money through a variety of sources and systems is a direct function of its share performance.

              6 4 Reply
              1. Anonymous Coward
                Reply Icon
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Headline wrong?

                How much a company is charged for borrowing money through a variety of sources and systems is a direct function of its share performance.

                What has that to do with anything?

                You have a very narrow view of money if you think that means money was "lost". I suspect you may have a degree in economics or something. You sound like the sort of numpty the LSE gives degrees to, at least.

                "The very next day after being caught in the Libor mess, Barclays set up the Dark Pool specifically to feed lies to their customers. Because they weren't really punished over Libor."

                From this we can deduce you a) don't understand libor, b) don't know anything about Barclays, c) don't know anything about dark pools generically or Barclays dark pool specifically

                And that d), you don't actually have anything to say on the subject aside from posturing.

                2 2 Reply
            2. Ross K Silver badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: Headline wrong?

              Until they're stopped there is no moral basis for punishing other people for doing the same thing. That's just the way it is.

              @Robert Long 1:

              God you're naive if you think that's how it works. Morality and legality are not the same thing

              I think I'll steal some food from Sainsburys on the way home this evening. When the cops come I'll tell them to fuck off and arrest some bankers.

              That's the level the people who complain about "THE BANKERS 0MG!!!" are at. Not a clue what they're actually complaining about...

              5 2 Reply
              1. Anonymous Coward
                Reply Icon
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Headline wrong?

                @Ross K "God you're naive if you think that's how it works."

                My point is that is not how it works but it is how they tell us it works, but when they are the ones breaking the law suddenly it works differently.

                "That's the level the people who complain about "THE BANKERS 0MG!!!" are at. Not a clue what they're actually complaining about..."

                Basically, what you're saying is that the rich should be allowed to get away with anything and you're happy to pay for it from your own pocket. Good for you; you can pay my share too, thanks.

                0 2 Reply
                1. Ross K Silver badge
                  Reply Icon
                  Facepalm

                  Re: Headline wrong?

                  Basically, what you're saying is that the rich should be allowed to get away with anything and you're happy to pay for it from your own pocket. Good for you; you can pay my share too, thanks.

                  No you idiot. I'm saying people shouldn't use The Bankers™ as an excuse for every fucking misdeed. Sorry you have reading difficulties.

                  You can't justify making a company's share price bomb by saying "Oh well, The Bankers™ made XYZ Ltd's share price bomb too."

                  You can't justify stealing food from Sainsburys by saying "Oh well The Bankers™ stole food from XYZ too."

                  You can't justify driving past a school at 100mph by saying "Oh well The Bankers™ drove everywhere at 100mph too."

                  Do you see where I'm going with this yet, or would you like a few more examples?

                  0 0 Reply
        3. J.G.Harston Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Headline wrong?

          "what the hell is a pension fund doing putting money into a dodgy high-risk investment like this anyway"

          Err... mining? That's one of the stolidest of solid investments.

          10 5 Reply
      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Headline wrong?

        However it MADE other pension funds and investors $300 million.

        The market is a zero sum game - one idiots losses are another idiots gains

        25 3 Reply
        1. Eddy Ito
          Reply Icon

          Re: Headline wrong?

          The market is a zero sum game - one idiots losses are another idiots gains

          Let me guess, everything you know about the stock market you learned from the movie Trading Places with Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy and now you're confused about between the difference between the stock market and the futures market.

          3 5 Reply
      3. Naughtyhorse
        Reply Icon

        Re: Headline wrong?

        Did they 'lose' A$300M though?

        To put it another way, what's the share price today?

        The article has it part right, day traders would have taken a bath, but fuck em. parasites

        pensions, I would say not so much.

        2 0 Reply
    2. peter 45
      Reply Icon

      Re: Headline wrong?

      One email does not cost squat. What sent the share price tumbling was the 'buy...buy..sell..sell' speculators who act on rumour and half truths, and the automatic share dealing system who all jumped on a small dip and kept on pushing it down and down.

      The share dip was temporary anyway so the only actual losses where by those who play with short term rises and dips in the market. Long term investors lost squat.

      23 5 Reply
    3. david 12 Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Headline wrong?

      Of course the headlines wrong. That's the whole point isn't it?

      >It may have cost some others something though, as is mentioned in the story.

      Or, it "may" have cost them nothing,

      or they "may" have made an extra profit from the attention the stock is getting.

      If the prosecution had any actual evidence, they wouldn't be resorting to weasel words like that.

      1 0 Reply
  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What losses?

    Anyone who panicked without verification is too stupid to be an investor.

    The share price recovered very quickly.

    18 2 Reply
    1. mathew42
      Reply Icon
      Meh

      Re: What losses?

      Here are three examples of where investors may have lost out without making a conscious decision:

      * Investors operating with a margin trading account may have been forced to sell by their bank if certain thresholds were reached.

      * Investors using stop-losses to manage their risk (especially with options trading)

      * Funds with rules covering the composition of their portfolio.

      However, the point is very valid. The shares opened at $3.55, plunged from $3.52 to $3.21 shortly after noon, but recovered to $3.53 so it is likely that only those investors with stop-losses would have been impacted and options trading has a higher risk associated with it.

      What the above reasons do highlight is the risks inherent in the market can accelerate movements in share prices, especially with automated trading.

      12 1 Reply
      1. Johan Bastiaansen
        Reply Icon

        Re: What losses?

        Very good ! ! !

        People who are in the market but are also stupid enough to have silly procedures, should loose money.

        It's Darwin.

        4 10 Reply
        1. DavCrav
          Reply Icon

          Re: What losses?

          "People who are in the market but are also stupid enough to have silly procedures, should loose money."

          What about people who are too stupid to be able to spell 'lose'? Should they loose money?

          21 1 Reply
          1. Johan Bastiaansen
            Reply Icon

            Re: What losses?

            Naah, you don't lose money for bed spalling.

            And if they lost it, it was pretty loose.

            2 5 Reply
          2. Arthur 1
            Reply Icon

            Re: What losses?

            "What about people who are too stupid to be able to spell 'lose'? Should they loose money?"

            Its Derwin.

            1 0 Reply
            1. DropBear
              Reply Icon

              Re: What losses?

              Its Derwin.

              Yeah, I'm sure he would of approved...

              1 0 Reply
  4. John Stirling

    Losses

    The only people who lost will be those who sold while the price was depressed. Anyone who bought while cheap made money. Anyone who didn't trade while the price was adrift didn't make or lose anything regardles of their position.

    If it was accepted that his motivation was not market manipulation then really this was not the right conviction. Libel perhaps, but not market manipulation. It is a dangerous precedent since it could be uaed to prosecute protesters who successfully impact a corporation through their legitimate protests.

    14 11 Reply
    1. DavCrav
      Reply Icon

      Re: Losses

      "The only people who lost will be those who sold while the price was depressed."

      OK, so it probably wasn't $300m. Let's say $50m. Is that any better? Can the people who lost money sue him personally for it? They can, but they cannot get much. He should be in jail.

      "If it was accepted that his motivation was not market manipulation then really this was not the right conviction. Libel perhaps, but not market manipulation. It is a dangerous precedent since it could be uaed to prosecute protesters who successfully impact a corporation through their legitimate protests."

      As long as the legitimate protest doesn't involving mocking up fraudulent press releases with lies about the business's health on it, they should be fine.

      13 4 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Losses

        If the people who lost sue him for their losses, can the people who benefited be sued by him for their gains?

        I concede happily that what he did was criminal. I also happen to think that the judge got it right. People should not be allowed to sue other people because of their own negligence and stupidity.

        The people who sold quick or sold short did so because they thought they had asymmetrical information, and they were in such a hurry to act that they didn't stop to check. They were trying to get an edge by acting before anybody else noticed. So, I agree that he should have been convicted, but I do not agree that he should be sued by people who lost out because of their own trigger happy behaviour.

        7 3 Reply
        1. DavCrav
          Reply Icon

          Re: Losses

          "The people who sold quick or sold short did so because they thought they had asymmetrical information, and they were in such a hurry to act that they didn't stop to check. They were trying to get an edge by acting before anybody else noticed. So, I agree that he should have been convicted, but I do not agree that he should be sued by people who lost out because of their own trigger happy behaviour."

          Sharp downturns like that cause automatic systems on pension funds and investment accounts to activate to mitigate potential losses. Ironically risk aversion would crystallize those losses, so speculators might get away scot free but low-risk funds would get stuck with the bill.

          4 1 Reply
          1. Adrian 4
            Reply Icon

            Re: Losses

            If those funds have passed their decision making over to automatic systems, they need to accept the consequences when their programmed decision making is wrong.

            Overall, there was no significant change to the share price, so if there was a crime, it was victimless. Anybody who lost out was matched by an equal number of gains, and since they're in short term trading that should be pretty much their expectation. In fact, they want short-term fluctuations since that's where there profits come from. Their only objection is that they didn't expect (ie cause) the fluctuation so weren't able to profit from it.

            7 4 Reply
          2. Johan Bastiaansen
            Reply Icon

            Re: Losses

            That's not irony, that's justice.

            0 1 Reply
      2. Naughtyhorse
        Reply Icon

        Re: $50 meeeleion???

        get a clue

        $50

        more like

        0 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Losses

      Exactly.

      To quote my favourite author on the subject, Fred Schwed Jr., remember that each one of those shares that was sold at a low price found a buyer.

      This little story has actually exposed the mania inherent in short term trading. People do it because they think it gives them an advantage over suckers who just buy shares and keep them. I am sure on the same day there were people who sold shares on a hunch that promptly went up, people who bought shares on an algorithm that promptly went down and were then sold in a hurry on the same algorithm. The mouth-foaming going on here is probably from people who really detest anything that shows that the financial gods are really just gamblers trying to game the system.

      15 6 Reply
    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Losses

      "If it was accepted that his motivation was not market manipulation then really this was not the right conviction. Libel perhaps, but not market manipulation. "

      His actions did manipulate the market, so I'd say that conviction is valid. Intent is a mitigating factor; it has nothing to do with whether you actually committed the crime.

      9 1 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Losses

        > His actions did manipulate the market, so I'd say that conviction is valid.

        All kinds of actions manipulate the market, and all kinds of actions which don't are also ascribed as causes. The market is a feedback loop plugged in to aggregate human-driven and automatic processes. And when the markets move at all, there's always someone to pipe up about something that's happened (accidentally or otherwise) that was the reason. Actually unpicking it is much harder. It's not scientific, isn't replayable. Should his actions caused a $0.01 drop if we had a stock market primarily looking at sound fundamentals but were exacerbated by e.g. reactive "investors" the company's poor communications? If the problem was a funding gap and "investors" believed everything was sound - why wouldn't investors believe they should make it up?

        > Intent is a mitigating factor;

        Intent is the only factor. What about if I say that I think company Z will do Y? If I do the latter and have shares (or could benefit from a salaried job with company W not related to company Z but which I might benefit from tangentially because W resells Z)?

        The latter happens all the time. Are we going to convict them too?

        1 3 Reply
      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Losses

        "Intent is a mitigating factor; it has nothing to do with whether you actually committed the crime."

        In many cases it is. For example, you can't commit the crime of "murder" if you did not intend to do it, you probably committed "manslaughter" or something even less serious instead.

        1 1 Reply
      3. Bucky 2
        Reply Icon

        Re: Losses

        His actions did manipulate the market, so I'd say that conviction is valid. Intent is a mitigating factor; it has nothing to do with whether you actually committed the crime.

        For some crimes, intent is actually what determines whether a crime has been committed or not--even if harm has resulted. For example, if you said something, KNEW that what you said would cause harm, it DID cause harm, but you THOUGHT it was the truth, you actually haven't committed libel, since libel is one of those things that require intent.

        Whether market manipulation requires intent would be a matter of law.

        0 1 Reply
    4. Arthur 1
      Reply Icon

      Re: Losses

      "It is a dangerous precedent since it could be uaed to prosecute protesters who successfully impact a corporation through their legitimate protests."

      Stealing from pensioners, now a legitimate form of protest.

      By some guy on the Internet's fiat no less. Thanks some guy! Cause you said so is the greatest form of persuasion yet.

      7 3 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Losses

        "Stealing from pensioners, now a legitimate form of protest."

        He didn't steal anything. Not a cent. Some money moved about and at the end some dumb people had lost some and some smart people had gained some - that was going to happen anyway. Meanwhile the guy that did the posting didn't make anything at all from it.

        So: not stealing.

        4 5 Reply
        1. LucreLout
          Reply Icon

          Re: Losses

          "Some money moved about and at the end some dumb people had lost some and some smart people had gained some - that was going to happen anyway."

          You really don't understand finance at all. It'd be best if you stopped posting for a while and started reading, until such time as you do understand basic stock market rules.

          Long only funds - most pension funds - have rules under which they must exit a position. The fund manager has no choice in obeying those rules, and no leeway to say "It's a blip caused by a nobber". So the fund sells when the price dips. It may be that the fund can buy back in, but they've crystallised a loss on transaction fees and any differential between their sale price and their buy back price.

          What he's done is move money from people saving for their old age (hardly dumb), into the pocket of day trading hedge fund millionaires (if you'd met many, smart may not be the first word you'd choose). In short, he's a tw@t. Whether he's malicious, or just delusional & incompetent I leave to you to decide.

          6 2 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Losses

            "The fund manager has no choice in obeying those rules, and no leeway to say "It's a blip caused by a nobber""

            Sounds dumb to me. Can you point out the smart bit for me?

            1 0 Reply
  5. armyknife

    Titles Are For Toffs.

    The Markets are sacred, they must be protected at all costs.

    Only those on the inside have the right to do this sort of thing.

    12 8 Reply
  6. Raumkraut

    Churnalism

    What of the media outlets that carelessly spread the fraudulent information? Are they also being held to account for their negligence in the matter?

    Anyone who knows anything about verifying sources, knows that you don't use contact information provided by the source you're trying to verify. If "the police" call you, you get a name and call the police station yourself, using a number from the phone book (or equivalent). If "the bank" (or any business) contacts you about something - especially by email - you go to their website (no, not the one linked in the email) and use the contact information there.

    34 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Churnalism

      Could be worse - I once wrote a pastiche of a Tom Clancy novel about a middle easter country having WMDs.

      I posted it on my blog but I hope nobody read it and took it seriously

      11 0 Reply
      1. peter 45
        Reply Icon

        Re: Churnalism

        'middle easter'. Is that like saturday evening, half way throught the long easter break weekend?

        (Sorry, couldn't help myself)

        7 0 Reply
        1. phil dude
          Reply Icon
          Coat

          Re: Churnalism

          no i think it is east of gondor...

          P.

          0 0 Reply
        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Churnalism

          They have giant chocolate rabbits of mass destruction

          3 0 Reply
      2. unitron
        Reply Icon
        Coat

        Re: Churnalism

        "Could be worse - I once wrote a pastiche of a Tom Clancy novel about a middle easter country having WMDs.

        I posted it on my blog but I hope nobody read it and took it seriously"

        I think they gave it to Powell as part of his UN talking points, but otherwise no harm done.

        Mine's the one with the aluminum tubing sticking out.

        1 0 Reply
  7. synonymous cowherd

    Good on you aussie justice

    Sometimes the law needs to take account of all the facts, and sometimes leniency toward peaceful protest should be encouraged. In the UK and US I suspect he would have felt the full weight of the law, and would no doubt be relishing a long stay behind bars, but then I'm a bit cynical.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/99565653@N07/

    What he was trying to stop:

    http://miningeyeinthesky.com/files/2014/03/before-after-leard-forest-26-2-2014.jpg

    5 12 Reply
  8. Ross K Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Sometimes the law needs to take account of all the facts, and sometimes leniency toward peaceful protest should be encouraged. In the UK and US I suspect he would have felt the full weight of the law, and would no doubt be relishing a long stay behind bars, but then I'm a bit cynical.

    Peaceful protest my arse. You Aussies out there in need of an environmental cause would do better protesting your country's uranium production.

    Fucking hypocrites, protesting about coal when Australia's one of the largest uranium producers in the world.

    They don't use uranium themselves you know - environmentally unsound...

    But it's ok to sell it to other countries. Even to countries like India who haven't signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.

    7 6 Reply
  9. Nick Kew

    Someone just assassinated the Prime Minister!

    Oh no. Don't tell me someone believed that?

    1 1 Reply
  10. GaryDMN

    Ecoterrorism

    Terrorism of any kind is far from a prank. How is this any different that destroying property?

    5 8 Reply
    1. Johan Bastiaansen
      Reply Icon

      Re: Ecoterrorism

      There's always a stormtrooper who wants to slam the word terrorist on anything he doesn't agree with and start prosecuting. You're the terrorist here.

      11 5 Reply
      1. LucreLout
        Reply Icon
        Trollface

        Re: Ecoterrorism

        "There's always a stormtrooper..."

        Dick, you are. Understand much, you do not. Powering the force, nuclear is.

        2 0 Reply
  11. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    "evinced no knowledge of the financial repercussions of his act"

    So, as long as I don't know what the results of my actions may be, I can go ahead with them scott free? Further justification for politicians to continue screwing the rest of us.

    4 1 Reply
    1. DN4
      Reply Icon

      There is a diference between, for instance, muder and negligience manslaughter even though in both cases someone is killed.

      You can only *manipulate* the stock market intentionally. Otherwise you only affect it.

      4 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      OK, let's play.

      Do you know anything about markets?

      If you sent out an equivalent mail about another company, do you think you can predict what the impact will be?

      0 0 Reply
  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nice....

    I like to see HFT fuckers take a bath....

    1 0 Reply
  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A failed judicial sysytem

    So this dude gets off with zero punishment for essentially robbing people of millions of dollars. THAT is not justice, that is a crime and I hope those who lost money sue and if need be appeal to a higher court. NO ONE should be allowed to impose these kinds of financial losses on others and not pay a very high price. WTF was this judge thinking?

    3 5 Reply
  14. MrDamage Silver badge

    Accomplices

    Shame they got off scot-free.

    I am, of course, referring to the "news outlets" who didn't bother to verify the email, and just blindly publish it.

    Also, you can't tell me that each new organisation does not have its own contact person within the various financial institutions that they could contact for absolute verification. Given how many times this has happened in the past (remember what happened to Apple's share price when the fake news of the Jobsian heart attack circulated in 2008), you would think they would at least try and get second opinion for the facts, instead of trying to get the "scoop".

    If one such email can create havoc such as this, we really should be looking at why such a weakness is present in the system. I guess greed will always trump logic.

    4 1 Reply
    1. Keith 21
      Reply Icon

      Re: Accomplices

      "Shame they got off scot-free.

      I am, of course, referring to the "news outlets" who didn't bother to verify the email, and just blindly publish it."

      And what about the ones who DID verify it first, by calling the number and being lied to by this scumbag and his accomplice? Do you want them punished too, while this scumbag is pretty much let off scot-free (a paltry 1,000 fine and that's it)?

      Just curious!

      0 3 Reply
      1. DocJames
        Reply Icon
        Stop

        Re: Accomplices

        "And what about the ones who DID verify it first, by calling the number"

        They didn't verify the story then, because they were using the story to verify itself. Phoning the number given in the press release is not verification.

        And I'm amused how "scot-free" equates to $1000 and 20 months suspended prison sentence. That's 20 months of jail time should he consider doing anything remotely similar again. He's been convicted, which he now has to declare on all those forms asking if you've ever had a criminal conviction. If the above genuinely is negligible, presumably all those complaining about his actions won't mind accepting similar non existent punishment?

        6 1 Reply
        1. Keith 21
          Reply Icon
          FAIL

          Re: Accomplices

          "And I'm amused how "scot-free" equates to $1000 and 20 months suspended prison sentence."

          The only actual punishment he got was a paltry 1,000 fine.

          Prison time served? Zero. Absolutely none.

          A suspended sentence is utterly meaningless in respect of his conviction. It's simply saying "If you break this law in this way again we'll punish you", nothing more.

          So yeah, receiving nothing more than a paltry 1,000 fine (out of a possible maximum of 1 million) and zero prison time (out of a possible maximum of 10 years) is getting off scot-free.

          "If the above genuinely is negligible, presumably all those complaining about his actions won't mind accepting similar non existent punishment?"

          If I ever broke that law, I'd happily accept the same level of non existent punishment as he got, absolutely! Heck, with a little bit of carefully concealed shorting on the stock, I'd (and he'd) make WAY more than that in profit easily.

          1 0 Reply
          1. DocJames
            Reply Icon
            Stop

            Re: Accomplices

            He received the level of punishment he did because he did not try to profit from his activities. He could have easily made money as you point out, but given he did not try to gain financially, his punishment was towards the lower end of what was possible.

            And I'll repeat, a suspended sentence is still a jail sentence, with real consequences for people*. You can pretend they don't exist if you want. It doesn't change reality.

            * assuming you're not stinking rich, and therefore have no need of employment.

            0 3 Reply
            1. Keith 21
              Reply Icon

              Re: Accomplices

              "He received the level of punishment he did because he did not try to profit from his activities."

              Of course he made a profit from it!

              He is not stupid. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew exactly the effect his deliberate deceit would cause. And he knew that if he placed a short order in his own name it would be spotted...

              "And I'll repeat, a suspended sentence is still a jail sentence, with real consequences for people"

              You can repeat it as much as you like, it's still not true.

              How much jail time does he serve? Oh yes, that's right - NONE.

              0 0 Reply
              1. DocJames
                Reply Icon
                Pint

                Re: Accomplices

                Hmm, seem to have touched a nerve here.

                My 2nd post was badly phrased. "[A] suspended sentence is still a jail sentence" is true, although assuming good behaviour there is no (additional, if on remand) time spend in prison. The punishment is the threat of 22 months in prison on top of whatever he gets for the next crime should he commit another crime.

                In terms of whether he profited from this crime, the judge didn't think so. I didn't sit through all the evidence and suspect you didn't either. There is little in the story to suggest Justice Davies got it completely wrong. If you read the article in the SMH it is clear that this is an environmental activist, who didn't fully think through the implications of his actions. In fact, I think this is the most interesting reading of the story: intelligent person acts stupid. I'm interested in these stories as (like most El reg readers):

                1) I consider myself intelligent, and

                2) I want to avoid acting stupidly.

                I suppose you could justify a jail sentence +/- large fine if you subscribe to an eye for an eye justice.

                --> beer, cos that's better than worrying about Australian criminals (?tautology :-)

                0 0 Reply
        2. LucreLout
          Reply Icon

          Re: Accomplices

          "And I'm amused how "scot-free" equates to $1000"

          Just to complete the picture, that equates to 300,000 individual pensioners booking a loss equivalent to his fine, because of his idiocy. I'm damn sure, given their average monthly fund investment, that they regard working an extra couple of months to fund this a rip snorting barrel of laughs.

          At a minimum he should have been fined $300M, leading to his bankruptcy, or jailed for a couple of years as a deterrant.

          3 1 Reply
      2. Naughtyhorse
        Reply Icon

        Re:DID verify it first

        They failed massively too. even my gran knows better than to call the number listed in the mail, or visit the site listed in the email.

        The press that didn't check were negligent.

        The ones that called the number off the mail were stupid to the point of negligence.

        5 1 Reply
  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I hope the hurt investors sue him to recover their losses.

    1 0 Reply
    1. Naughtyhorse
      Reply Icon

      hope he sues the people that made money off the dip to get some money to pay his fines.

      (the clue is in the question: for everyone _selling_ for an artificially low price and losing out there was someone else _buying_ for an artificially low price and making a profit.)

      Hence a zero sum game.

      3 3 Reply
  16. Crisp

    Some media outlets didn't even bother calling him to check the facts

    Are there really media outlets out there that indulge in such nefarious practices?

    0 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Some media outlets didn't even bother calling him to check the facts

      didn't Murdoch (News International) come from Australia at least (now being a US Citizen?) and wasn't his organisation accused of a have a few nefarious practices - just saying

      0 1 Reply
  17. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Surprised he got off so light

    I'm surprised he got off so light. I don't think he should get hard prison times and crippling fines, but I could get $1000 fine off a couple speeding tickets (well, not in my state...), I would think intentionally crashing a companies' stock price* would warrant a *little* more than that.

    *Well, crashing it through false information. Crashing it through true information should be fair game so long as you're not shorting their stock at the time.

    0 0 Reply

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