back to article German NSA probe chief mulls spy-busting typewriters

Germany's government has mulled a return to typewriters in a bid to evade US spy agencies, according to the head of the nation's National Security Agency inquiry. The incredible decision came in response to a torrent of allegations that the NSA had spied on the German agencies and parties including Chancellor Angela Merkel. …

  1. MrDamage Silver badge
    Headmaster

    CIA spooks now to go hungry?

    It prompted Merkel to last week expel America's CIA chef in Berlin and fire another in a series of salvos at the US surveillance complex stating that "spying is ultimately a waste of force".

    What will they do without their own personal chef?

    1. Evil Auditor Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: CIA spooks now to go hungry?

      But what did he do wrong? Stealing recipes for cooking Kraut and Wurst?

    2. big_D Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: CIA spooks now to go hungry?

      Poor translation, like the mistranslation of the tweet.

      Chef is German for "head of" or Boss.

      1. Evil Auditor Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: CIA spooks now to go hungry?

        Chef is German for "head of" or Boss.

        I know, I know. But I chose to ignore...

  2. Mark 85

    Actually, this may not be a bad idea...

    Sometimes retro tech is far better then high-tech. The higher tech some of these agencies get, the sooner they'll forget about the old tech and over look things. This might even cause some folks to ignore e-mail and begin writing real letters again.

    1. James Micallef Silver badge

      Re: Actually, this may not be a bad idea...

      "Sometimes retro tech is far better then high-tech"

      Sure, but why typewriter? Just get a modern PC with encrypted HDD + word processor that's not (and has never been) connected to the internet or any network + a printer directly attached to it, remove/destroy any other USB, network, DVD etc drives/ports, and physically secure the location. You get all the security benefits of a typewriter with none of the 'retro tech' drawbacks

      1. Ole Juul

        Re: Actually, this may not be a bad idea...

        "Sure, but why typewriter?"

        Because it is useful in getting rid of the Secret Service.

        "Opposition committee member Martina Renner said on Twitter she'd sooner get rid of the Secret Service than start using typewriters,"

        Let's hope it works.

      2. Thorsten
        Boffin

        Re: Actually, this may not be a bad idea...

        "Just get a modern PC [...]"

        Wrong. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29.

        1. DropBear
          WTF?

          Re: Actually, this may not be a bad idea...

          Wrong

          Right... because once you're in the physical proximity that would allow you to short-range spy on those feeble radio emissions, you absolutely couldn't deploy any number of other tactics (including but not limited to do the exact same kind of analysis on, say, the sound of the mechanical keys...) to get to what's being typed up. Suuuure...

    2. cortland

      Re: Actually, this may not be a bad idea...

      In the security line...

      Sir, you'll have to turn on that typewriter. Bomb Squad, STAT!

      http://typewriterreview.com/2014/02/05/smith-corona-skyriter/

  3. RobHib
    Coat

    I'm not surprised. (And there's some practical reasons too.)

    As we've seen, the Kremlin has mooted similar tactics of resorting back to typewriters and paper-based documents. Seems it's desperate tactics for desperate times.

    From earliest days, I've always believed that it's fundamentally harder to steal lots of data from paper-based systems. Paper-based systems are fundamentally different from electronic ones; for starters, physical access to documents is a requirement to copy a document. In paper-based systems one has to physically move real atoms from A to B.

    Paper-based systems don't stop data theft but the concept of stealing terabytes of data by photocopying/photographing properly secured paper documents is farcical, not so for ephemeral electronic data.

    Practical electronic data systems aren't sufficiently secure as US military and NSA experience illustrates. Thus perhaps resorting to paper is the price that has to be paid until secure electronic document transport and storage systems are developed.

    If nothing else, it'll focus the mind on what ought to be kept truly secure.

    1. RobHib

      @RobHib -- Re: I'm not surprised. ...And I should have added.

      Social Democratic Party committee rep Christian Flisek also took to Twitter in opposition of the call for retro word processing labelling the idea "ridiculous" and not a normal part of counter-surveillance.

      I should have added that Flisek is obviously from the post-paper generation. One of the major failings of the post-paper generation is to so completely embrace electronic data without properly understanding how the security paradigm has changed from paper to electronic systems. Flisek wouldn't make such categorical statements if more knowledgeable.

    2. keithpeter Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: I'm not surprised. (And there's some practical reasons too.)

      "Paper-based systems don't stop data theft but the concept of stealing terabytes of data by photocopying/photographing properly secured paper documents is farcical, not so for ephemeral electronic data."

      I accept your point about physical access.

      However, the spies at present give the impression of grabbing everything they can and then sorting it later. Photographing paper will simply mean being far more selective about what they target. Pre-searching if you like, so that 'metadata', who is meeting whom, who is on what committe, will become key.

      The tramp: I just sit on the bench and watch who is coming in and who is going out.

      1. Anonymous Blowhard

        Re: I'm not surprised. (And there's some practical reasons too.)

        "Photographing paper will simply mean being far more selective about what they target. Pre-searching if you like, so that 'metadata', who is meeting whom, who is on what committe, will become key."

        So you mean that they'll have to go back to doing "real" spy work, using selective surveillance on only pre-identified targets, like in the old days, rather than just mass surveillance of everyone "because we can, and it's easier"?

        1. RobHib

          @ Anonymous Blowhard -- Re: I'm not surprised. (And there's....)

          Right. As I've implied above "real" spying is difficult and expensive.

          The last thing the NSA and GCHQ want is a return to "real" spying. That's why the 'return-to-paper' plan is so potentially effective. The words 'typewriters' and 'paper' must be blood-curdling in Langley, methinks.

      2. RobHib

        Re: I'm not surprised. (And there's some practical reasons too.)

        "Photographing paper will simply mean being far more selective about what they target."

        Correct, absolutely!

        Moreover, it's much more difficult and expensive to physically photograph, pinch and or rifle through paper documents in a high-security vault in Berlin (or get insiders to steal them for you) than it is to sit in front of a terminal in Langley Virginia whilst an automatic spider does the rifling of easily-broken databases.

        (Cost is almost everything--the current worldwide surveillance rort by the NSA/GCHQ et al is only possible because it's comparatively cheap, doing the equivalent by paper would not only be impossible, it'd also be unthinkable).

        If I was ultimately responsible for securing Russian or German high-security documents in the present uncertain security climate then I certainly implement a return-to-paper policy (as horribly inconvenient as it may be).

        I'd also ban anything but trivia being sent by email and telephone, encrypted or otherwise (metadata being useful and revealing).

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    I still vote for building a new ISP (International secure pigeon!) industry

    Flocks of genetically-typed (so you know if one is intercepted) pigeons carrying notes, or perhaps encrypted flash drives!!

    Tux--because he could be the forerunner of ANOTHER ISP (Interglobal submarine penguin!) industry, since penguins are large enough that they could carry a hard drive or two, or a couple books!! Obviously we would the proper waterproof carrying case.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But in the past mechanical Typewriters divulged their secrets to the spys

    via their typewriter ribbons.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: But in the past mechanical Typewriters divulged their secrets to the spys

      Yes exactly my sthougt.

      It had happend before, that the cleaners cleaned the offices, replaced the ribbons and sold the used ribbons to spies.

      It was only noticed by office supply because the usage statitics for typewriter ribbons had dropped dramatically.

      1. tony2heads

        Re: But in the past mechanical Typewriters divulged their secrets to the spys

        Yes, better stick to clay tablets or roman tabula rasa (waxed board).

        Erase the first with a hammer and the second with heat

    2. RobHib

      @A.C. -- Re: But in the past mechanical Typewriters divulged their secrets to the spys

      Come on, really?

      Any new mechanical typewriter would automatically overwrite/obfuscate the ribbon on a one-pass basis. Remember, this problem is not new, nor are obfuscating-ribbon typewriters (they go back decades, so do the procedures for securely disposing of ribbons).

  6. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. big_D Silver badge
    Holmes

    No she didn't

    She said, before she would resort to typewriters or burning notes, she would abolish spy agencies

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    proper translation of the tweet

    Before I use a typewriter,[ and] burn paper notes after reading, I would rather get rid of intelligence agencies.

  9. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    Not foolproof

    If you can hear a manual typewriter then you can figure out what is being typed with reasonable certainty.

    1. Robert Heffernan

      Re: Not foolproof

      Definite side channel attack vector here. If the NSA can deduce RSA private keys from the silent squeals of a CPU then they can read documents by the sound of the keystrokes. I can actually remember they have developed this for PC keyboards so adapting this to retro tech would be trivial.

      Perhaps the rest of the world should just file an international class action lawsuit against the US/English/Any other Cooperating government on behalf of the rest of the world

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not foolproof

      Yes.

      ISTR reading an article by a former MI6 officer who mentioned installing a hidden microphone in a foreign embassy during the cold war era. At first they were disappointed that there were no discussions in the room being bugged, just one secretary typing. But then discovered that they were able to largely reconstruct the typed documents by identifying slight differences in the sound of each key and the overall sound pattern of each word.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not foolproof

        It is well known that typewriters can leak information through the sound of typing. It is mentioned by Viktor Suvorov (who defected to the UK in 1978) in one of his books. The GRU had a rule that in foreign embassies certain things could only be written with paper and pencil, in a special room with noise generators inside the double walls.

        1. RobHib
          Devil

          @A.C. -- Re: Not foolproof. -- Ahh, I just love these arguments!

          Love these arguments. Here we are designing the next-generation, post-Internet mechanical typewriter. (Flock to El Reg patent boys, get your designs here!) ;-)

          Of course you're right: 'fingerprinting' of typewriters followed by some smart Fourier work on the acoustic noise will (can) identify what's going on--that's proven. Presumably a similar trick could be used on the input current if it's electric (sans electronics of course). Each key would have a slightly different loading signature on the motor, hence a different current pattern which could then be given the FFT treatment.

          But what will happen if the post-internet mechanical typewriter takes off, eh?

          We now know all these spying tricks from Cold War days so designers will go out of their way to obfuscate (randomise) the key noise (or current loads) and such.

          ...BUT that's just not the point of this argument.

          Fact is, ANY mechanical typewriter--even ones with old fashioned one-pass, non-obfuscating ribbons where you can read everything that's been typed--is still a VAST improvement on internet hacking, it would put the kibosh on the NSA's internet operations (as it would mean a return to "real" spying). "Real" spying involves moving atoms from A to B, and that probably means physically moving the spooks themselves from Langley to Berlin or Moscow--a far cry from sedentary screen-gazing in Langley (and London, Oz, Canada, etc.).

          Any such internet-free paradigm shift combined with newly-designed "quiet" typewriters would give the spooks a really big headache, it means almost starting from scratch (and it's obvious that's just what the Russians and Germans are attempting to achieve).

          As they say, we live in interesting times.

  10. Lionel Baden
    Joke

    Best of both worlds

    Store it all on Floppies :D

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not so crazy

    The need for manual typewriters can be explained by the fact that electric typewriters use a once-only ribbon that is easily read: for the same reason the fabric ribbon (and carbon paper) used by manual typewriters should - for security's sake - be (at least) slightly used.

    It is possible to grab and copy piles of paper documents. That said, I can normally tell if anyone has disturbed my desk, so there is the additional risk of detection.

    Then there is the problem of transferring the photos / photocopies to a computer. The uneven quality of manually typewritten documents - especially if the type heads are not cleaned daily - drives the average OCR program to drink. So the transcription error count for manually-prepared documents is way beyond that for a modern photocopy, making the reliability of the scans a factor.

    All-in-all, one can see why George Smiley's job was so difficult in days of yore ...

    1. RobHib

      @A.C. -- Re: Not so crazy

      "All-in-all, one can see why George Smiley's job was so difficult in days of yore..."

      That's why the German and Russian 'paper' solution is such a nifty one (albeit inconvenient).

      George Smiley will have to get up off his arse, give up computer solitaire and work for a living.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Many paper advantages

    Longevity, so far up to thousands of years.

    No dependency on power supplies or other components to read it

    Easy to annotate with just a pencil.

    Robust, still work even if wet and, to some extent, even if charred.

    Shock proof and, for short douments, notes etc., light, small, portable.

    Security: can be locked away, buried or whatever in container designed just for security without needing to have regard to power supplies, earth tremors etc..

    Short hand can come back for reportage.

    Many more.

    Drawbacks:

    Can be bulky and heavy

    Harder to share quickly, especially across distance - or is this its greatest advantage?

    Can still be encoded; but this can not be automated (nor decoding, plus point).

    As for typewriters: it should not be that hard to damp the noise or to have some sort of device in the ribbon spool that would flatten and re-ink the ribbon or simply shred it to force single use, instant destruction. And if one learnt to type on a decent typewriter, one detests the modern keyboard and its complete lack of practicability.

    Encryption: if you ever try to read my handwriting, you will realise that it is completely unnecessary.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Many paper advantages

      > Drawbacks:

      Equally likely to be left on a commuter train by a civil servant.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Many paper advantages

        "Equally likely to be left on a commuter train by a civil servant."

        True, however, the nature of the grab would be limited to that particular set of data. Whereas an electronic equivalent (hacked, lost usb stick, stolen computer) could potentially harvest a *lot* more data. Plus, physical data is a lot harder to index. Electronic data is damned easy.

        Now, where is my OCR gear....

    2. Crisp

      Re: Longevity, so far up to thousands of years.

      Try hundreds. It you want it to last thousands of years, carve it in stone.

  13. Bob Wheeler
    Big Brother

    Steampunk?

    Following on from some of the Snowden leaks/reports it is niegh on impossible to be certain that a modern PC does not have any covert backdoor/keylogger/etc either designed and built-in or added during shipping.

    So, do you go back to a basic manual typewriter, or perhaps it can a time to devlope a new approach to hi-tech,

    Anyone for Steampunk word processing?

  14. JimmyPage Silver badge

    Going retro ... another idea

    I wonder if going back to *really* old versions of software would have a similar effect. You know, *before* they were compromised.

    Is it possible in the future I put Wordstar under CP/M back on my cv ?

    1. RobHib
      Angel

      @JimmyPage -- Re: Going retro ... another idea

      "...in the future I put Wordstar under CP/M back on my cv ?"

      Hum, methinks not a good idea. (The spooks will probably recognise Wordstar's control diamond.)

      ;-)

      Sorry neophytes, Wordstar in-joke!

  15. Steve Todd

    Digital systems don't have to be networked

    And all their information can be encrypted with a key token so that even stealing the physical machine is useless.

    Conversely paper documents can easily be digitised with a digital camera, and encoded data on them can be broken more easily as the current generation of ciphers aren't suitable for manual use (the older versions were replaced because they weren't strong enough to resist a computer attack).

    The security of a digital system can be as high as your paranoia and budget allows while still being usable (perfectly secure systems can't be used at all).

  16. nigel 15

    Typewriters are no issue for spooks.

    Each key makes a different sound. A microphone and some clever statistics provide everything you need.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't even need a microphone (in the room)

      Years ago spooks were keystroke-recording via windowpane vibrations using remote microphones...

  17. Kent Brockman

    reminds me of

    the Agents of Shield episode Rag-tag, where the break into Cybertek and find that the secured server room is actually all filing cabinets.

    They solved the finding the information problem by chucking the relevant cabinet out of the window and doing a bunk with it.

    1. phil dude
      Joke

      Re: reminds me of

      I'll raise you a "Sherlock memory palace".

      Rolls dice...

      P.

  18. The Dark Side
    Mushroom

    Operation Orchard

    How do you think the Syrians keep Mossad in the dark about what they were doing until the Israelis' bombed It. If you want to hide something go back to the old school ways. Some people need to read Sun Tzu, JFC that was written when most people believed the world was flat.

  19. beanbasher
    Big Brother

    Laptop in a farady cage/jar

    A laptop in a faraday cage along with a printer and scanner. Type your document, encrypt it and them print. Take printed document to internet conected computer and scan doc, email as attachment to who ever. Person receiving doc prints it and carries to their farady cage where it is scanned and then OCRed, text is then decrpted. Does that float anyones boat.

    1. Dr Scrum Master
      Holmes

      Re: Laptop in a farady cage/jar

      the boat sank a long time ago when SIGINT groups were scanning faxes let alone e-mail attachments...

  20. Sanctimonious Prick
    Coat

    Seriously?

    Ya gotta go back further than that. Screw the electronic devices. Screw the pen and paper. Word of mouth has been around for thousands and thousands of years.

    The General tells the Colonel only what s/he needs to know. Colonel tells the Commander, and so on, and so on. Sure, a little Japanese Whispers will creep in, which could be a good thing.

    I dunno, you sort it out! :D

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