back to article Dead letter office: ancient smallpox sample turns up in old US lab

It's a scene reminiscent of Raiders of the Lost Ark's climax: something very dangerous is put in storage by a government agency, and forgotten. America's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is working to hose down fears about its control of stockpiles, following the startling discovery of 1950s-era smallpox samples in a …

  1. FunkyEric

    Is it just me.....

    But why do they need to confirm if it is viable smallpox? Surely the best thing to do with anything that says "Smallpox" on it would be to destroy it straight away!

    1. Vincent Ballard

      Re: Is it just me.....

      It's a useful data point.

    2. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Is it just me.....

      What if there's an empty space in the box that might have previously contained a vial?

      How do you confirm that the vials currently in the box are the vials that are supposed to be in the box?

      You need to know that all the vials are there and are the right ones, because if somebody nicked them...

      1. auburnman

        Re: Is it just me.....

        It's rare but not unheard of for construction to accidentally uncover a forgotten plague pit (I seem to recall it happened in London a few years back.) Knowing more about the lifespan of the virus in an isolated environment is definitely worthwhile.

    3. Shannon Jacobs

      Re: Is it just me.....

      Consider it a serendipitous experiment, but one that could be quite useful. Imagine that they discover some records showing that there was more of it. If they know that the part they have is not viable, then that is a much less serious situation than if they discover it is still viable and some of it is missing.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is it just me.....

      > But why do they need to confirm if it is viable smallpox?

      Because it provides them with real life information on the viability of old viruses.

      It is data that is of scientific value.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is it just me.....

      "But why do they need to confirm if it is viable smallpox?"

      To see if it's worth adding to the US's weaponized smallpox stockpile.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Is it just me.....

        @DownVotes Are there really people out there that think the US doesn't have stockpiles of smallpox? I suppose you're expecting gifts from Santa this year too, huh?

        The story goes that when the WHO arrived to certify all batches destroyed the military simply put them into the canteen fridges for fifteen minutes and them back into their normal lab fridges once the inspectors had gone. Specifically true or not, there's not a chance in hell that the US would really destroy such a potentially powerful weapon.

        1. Risky
          Black Helicopters

          Re: Is it just me.....

          @Robert Long 1

          Do you just make this up or to have a set of bookmarks on Area51, Bilderberg, Protocols, Illuminati etc

          1. Don Jefe

            Re: Is it just me.....

            They have to verify it's real to rule out it being a hilarious prank. A hysterical laughter bomb planted by some long gone researcher who was perfectly content not being there because he knew what would happen, even decades later. Kind of like that guy who made arrangements to have a bunch of harmless, finely ground white plastic powder poured over his body before they closed the casket. With an engraved placard inside that says 'Fuck You grave robber, now you've got Anthrax'. That kind of humor is timeless.

            1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

              Re: Is it just me.....

              But it wouldn't be complete with a Jack in the Box.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Is it just me.....

            @Risky: "Do you just make this up or to have a set of bookmarks on Area51, Bilderberg, Protocols, Illuminati etc"

            How many times do these people have to be caught being totally dishonest evil thugs before you stop believing their bullshit? Have you been asleep for 80 years? We're talking about the only country that has ever used nukes on a (beaten) opponent and who supplied Saddam with chemical and biological weapons for years when they were fighting Iran. When it comes to weapons of mass destruction they have the longest track record of any country in the world!

            Why would anyone be so naive as to think they would NOT hold onto smallpox (just as, I'm sure, Russia and China have)? That's the crazy talk.

            1. Risky

              Re: Is it just me.....

              @Robert Long 1

              ....and the governement is so good at these secret conspiracies that no-one finds out about. It's so easy as no secrets ever leak do they. Particularly when it will need probably thousands of people that know about it.

              Anyway weaponised smallpox? Yeah lets just say it won't be on anywhere you're planning to send in the troops to will it. Biological weapons are't exactly predictable are they?

              Hate the US all you like but try and use your brain now and again. That tinfoil isn't helping.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Is it just me.....

                "Yeah lets just say it won't be on anywhere you're planning to send in the troops to will it".

                Ever since Vietnam - and even before that - the US government has done everything it possibly can to avoid, or minimize, American casualties. Spreading smallpox would cause terrible harm to the target nation, so there would be no need to send any troops.

                Of course, the smallpox would eventually find its way back home. But politicians aren't smart enough to understand that; and besides, it wouldn't happen for weeks, so it would be way over their time horizon.

                1. Don Jefe

                  Re: Is it just me.....

                  As incredibly destructive as nuclear weapons eventually became there are a lot of people who see it as a positive thing. Between WWI and the nuclear bombng of Hiroshima and Nagasaki the world had been pouring nearly unlimited resources into chemical and biological weapons research. Nuclear arms didn't stop the research into those things, but it did make them a secondary issue, especially after hydrogen weapons testing began in the USSR.

                  The world 'chose' nuclear as the vehicle of mass destruction and pretty much everybody except truly mad weapons scientists were pretty happy with that. Everybody was, rightly, afraid of biological weapons. You can't reliably control them once they've been deployed and the capraciousness of the natural world isn't something most people want as the only safeguard between killing the enemy and killing the enemy and everybody on your side as well.

                  It's all a great big fucked up mess, but I'm glad nuclear was the route we went down.

        2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: Is it just me.....

          Specifically true or not, there's not a chance in hell that the US would really destroy such a potentially powerful weapon.

          I wouldn't put it past them. These congenital retards regularly mistake a suicide implement for a weapon.

          It's like an AI keeping a trick to generate a kernel fault in its drawer, in case it fancied a little bluescreen.

  2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    Actually more like part of the scenarios to "Quantico"

    And not in a good way.

    The 50's and 60's were a different time in H&S terms.

    1. keithpeter Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Actually more like part of the scenarios to "Quantico"

      "In September 1978 Janet Parker, a medical photographer at the University of Birmingham, was accidentally infected with smallpox and later died. Her illness was initially diagnosed as a drug rash, but soon afterwards pustules appeared on her body. Mrs Parker's mother also developed smallpox, but survived. The ensuing investigation never established exactly how the smallpox virus had escaped from the university's laboratory."

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/smallpox_01.shtml [ near bottom ]

      Not just 1950s and 1960s. I sometimes pass the building that was pointed out to me years ago as the lab in question. Makes you think. Try the Wikipedia page and the summary of the Shooter Report if you want nightmares (I live and work in the areas mentioned in the report).

  3. Byz

    That is a dodged bullet :o

    Had that got out it would be a nightmare!

    When DNA analysis was done on smallpox it shared more hits with human kind than anything else, Smallpox is our natural predator. We have had 40 years of absence in the most of the world it is uncertain if there is any natural resistance left (maybe some of us who were immunised).

    Smallpox has the ability to dismantle our immune system, if it got out in a big city it would be similar to what happened when it landed in the new world :(

    I was immunised against smallpox as a baby in the 60's and the vaccination caused terrible eczema (I was covered from head to foot) the vaccination for people susceptible to eczema and asthma is almost as dangerous as catching smallpox itself.

    I hope it never gets out as we could not scale up vaccine fast enough. My father who was a medic used to tell of an operation where the patient had smallpox and the theatre staff were unaware. No-one survived exposure even though some were vaccinated as they were exposed to such a high dose of the virus.

    The stuff of nightmares :(

    1. Jim 59

      Re: That is a dodged bullet :o

      No-one survived exposure even though some were vaccinated as they were exposed to such a high dose of the virus.

      So their vaccination/immunization made them resistant, not immune...

  4. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

    Unused?

    How exactly is a section of a storage room "unused" if it contains a box.

    Mix this message with Storage Wars, and you get something REALLY creepy

    1. ElectricFox
      Windows

      Re: Unused?

      "YUUUUUUUUUUP!"

    2. admiraljkb
      Joke

      Re: Unused?

      Presumably there was a sign nearby that said "Beware of the Leopard"?

  5. Winkypop Silver badge
    Windows

    CDC, Atlanta, mystery vials, hmmmmmmm

    It's the prequel to The Walking Dead!

    Walkers!!!

    1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

      Time to arm

      the fuel air self destruct system. They do have one, don't they?

  6. Christoph

    I wonder what actually happened when someone opened the box and saw that label?

    Presumably they put the box back down very carefully, and then screamed and ran like hell!

    1. kmac499

      I suspect that a responsible lab worker would have locked the door from the inside and stayed with it just in case.. The logic being, if it's viable and I've caught it; let's contain it. If it's non viable I'll just stay with it till the cavalry get here..

      1. Don Jefe

        I salute your faith in mankind sir. Perhaps I've been too long around the wrong sort, but the only reason I can think of that the average lab worker would voluntarily stay with this and wait is so they can maximize the damage claims in the enormous lawsuit they're about to file. I like your thought much better though.

        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "I salute your faith in mankind sir. Perhaps I've been too long around the wrong sort, but the only reason I can think of that the average lab worker would voluntarily stay with this and wait is so they can maximize the damage claims in the enormous lawsuit they're about to file. I like your thought much better though."

          Actually something like that happened at Los Alamos in an experiment they called "twisting the dragons tail."

          The instructors fingers slipped and the 2 sub critical parts came together. He pulled the parts apart with his bare hands.

          AFAIK all the other people in the room survived. His death provided the one of the calibrations for radiation exposure.

          I'm not sure if he'd deduced that if it went critical there was nowhere to run or if he wanted to just get the two pieces apart and was not thinking that far ahead.

          People under pressure can do the most extraordinary things.

          Everyone's behavior is predicable (to a certain degree) until they stop being predictable.

          1. Don Jefe

            Fair enough.

            1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
              Unhappy

              "Fair enough."

              Just to be clear

              I normally aim to avoid employment where the phrase "Work is a great place to go to die" applies.

              Be very careful what you sign up for.

          2. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

            You must be referring to the Pajarito:

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pajarito_accident

            It looks like a pure reflex. During criticality, there is not that much time to contemplate. Then again, an experienced person may well be able to suppress the instincts and do the right thing.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anyone...

    Anyone who has ever worked in a Micro lab with a research contingent will be aware of the horrors that lurk in the bottom of freezers, lyophilised sample storage areas etc. One of our virologists (long-retired) spent time in Porton in the late 60s prior to setting up a local lab. When he retired we found cardboard boxes in the freezer that had vials with...crusts.. in them. These had been neatly labelled in fountain pen on lick-and-stick (shudder) labels. The faded-to-illegibility labels were in the bottom of the box....

    Anon, well because...

    1. PassiveSmoking

      Re: Anyone...

      So rummaging through a science lab junk drawer is probably a really bad idea.

      Allen key, different allen key, weird flange-thing with a screw in one end that nobody knows it's for, some crusty old AA batteries, vial of disease that could end all life on Earth, tube of superglue welded to the side of the draw, ... used tea bag? Eww, what'd that doing in here?

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: Anyone...

        Robert the intern can do that....

        the WHO declared it eradicated in 1980

        Of course, it can be rebuilt from the DNA sequence.

      2. John 110

        Re: Anyone...

        "...rummaging..."

        You've been to our lab then? Are you a CPA inspector?

  8. Chozo
    Coffee/keyboard

    Somewhere in London you'll find the White Hart pub where the ghosts of British scientists, science fiction writers and Arthur C Clarke are having a good chuckle at this.

    1. Christoph

      The original White Horse (which Arthur called the White Hart) is long gone, but the SF meetings that were held there are still happening.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    At work a few years ago we found a cardboard box in an old building that contained several small bottles some of which seemed, looking at it from what we hoped was a safe distance, to have broken and the cardboard looked all furry. What was really worrying was the large number of dead insects on and around the box.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Headmaster

      So you called the hazmat team?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "the WHO declared it eradicated in 1980"

    As nice as it was for them to try, I would think driving all the samples on earth into a swimming pool isn't the most scientific way of eradicating a virus.

  11. revdjenk

    I wonder...

    ...how the anti-vaccination people would react if smallpox got around again?

    1. Don Jefe

      Re: I wonder...

      Posthumously...

  12. Stevie

    Bah!

    "Right then, interns, I need one volunteer to lick the samples. Smith, you're it."

  13. chivo243 Silver badge

    Good news everyone...

    My vial of small pox has finally arrived from the 20th century. Now we can finally...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Good news everyone...

      "I'm working in insurance"

  14. Vic

    Signage?

    The box was in “an unused portion of a storage room” in an FDA lab in the NIH's Bethseda

    It definitely required the sign "Beware of the Leopard"...

    Vic.

  15. Gwaptiva

    Spoilers ahead

    Somebody call the guy called Pilgrim...

  16. Jonathan Richards 1
    Facepalm

    Variola

    Let's hope firstly that there are no more of these little surprises lurking elsewhere, and failing that, hope that the rest turn up before the meaning of 'variola' is lost on the young team tasked with turfing out garbage from the back of storage room Z9. "I thought it was OK, boss, because it didn't have a ☣, or nuffin'". [1]

    [1] Biohazard symbol developed in 1966-7, I find, though I'm sure I remember reading about it as being a novelty in the early seventies.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re. Variola

    What is quite concerning is that dried viruses are sometimes still viable by aerosolization or just rubbing the container.

    Hypothetical doomsday scenario would be someone with a weakened immune system picking up the vial(s), and not noticing the leakage over decades, rubbing their eye/nose/etc. Voila, instant pandemic.

    Isn't the incubation period of Variola major about six days?

  18. mhenriday
    Thumb Down

    I seem to remember, more than two decades ago,

    the highly publicised worries about Soviet nuclear warheads adrift, which those nasty terrorists were almost certain to get their hands on. Fortunately, such things are handled better in that Shining City upon a Hill....

    Henri

  19. Dr Patrick J R Harkin

    This stuff will have been in sealed vials, so no big deal.

    The exciting discovery was the envelope of smallpox scabs found tucked into the back of a book in a New Mexico library ten year s ago...

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-12-26-smallpox-in-envelope_x.htm

  20. ProperDave
    Joke

    Call Mr Willis!

    Where's the 12 Monkeys angle?

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Update

    Viable V. Major virus cultured from two of the vials, the other four are under analysis.

    Needless to say, the vials are going to be destroyed as soon as this is complete.

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